Ogbahs leading us in sacks...
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Ogbah will get some coverage duties at a guess. He's 6'4" and runs a 4.6 40. He's got the physicality to cover tight ends if the play calls for it.
I know that 4.6 40 sounds impressive but its no pads and a steaight line. Covering TE's like gronk, eifert etc, require agility as well. Stopping and going and whatnot. Its not something i wantbthem making ogbah do alot. He should drop in a zone and kill what comes near him like what harrissin did for pgh all those years
I know that 4.6 40 sounds impressive but its no pads and a steaight line. Covering TE's like gronk, eifert etc, require agility as well. Stopping and going and whatnot. Its not something i wantbthem making ogbah do alot. He should drop in a zone and kill what comes near him like what harrissin did for pgh all those years
Gronk's 3 cone drill was 7.18s, Ogbah 7.26.
Gronk's 20yd shuttle was 4.47. Ogbah 4.50
Gronk's 10/40yd splits were 1.58/4.68. Ogbah's 1.58/4.56
So tell me again how Ogbah lacks the 'agility' to cover a tight end. Of and for fun, Ogbah had 2 inches over gronk in both the vertical and broad. But I'm sure you're right...
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I know that 4.6 40 sounds impressive but its no pads and a steaight line. Covering TE's like gronk, eifert etc, require agility as well. Stopping and going and whatnot. Its not something i wantbthem making ogbah do alot. He should drop in a zone and kill what comes near him like what harrissin did for pgh all those years
Gronk's 3 cone drill was 7.18s, Ogbah 7.26.
Gronk's 20yd shuttle was 4.47. Ogbah 4.50
Gronk's 10/40yd splits were 1.58/4.68. Ogbah's 1.58/4.56
So tell me again how Ogbah lacks the 'agility' to cover a tight end. Of and for fun, Ogbah had 2 inches over gronk in both the vertical and broad. But I'm sure you're right...
Gronk's 3 cone drill was 7.18s, Ogbah 7.26.
Gronk's 20yd shuttle was 4.47. Ogbah 4.50
Gronk's 10/40yd splits were 1.58/4.68. Ogbah's 1.58/4.56
So tell me again how Ogbah lacks the 'agility' to cover a tight end. Of and for fun, Ogbah had 2 inches over gronk in both the vertical and broad. But I'm sure you're right...
My eyes told me he was rigid and lacked a bit of agility. Running tests are a great way to determine a player's aptitude, but they certainly aren't the "be all, end all" measuring stick. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows? I sure HOPE I'm freaking wrong. Here are some excerpts from professional analysts:
"He's stiff and upright so he has no counters as a rusher and then he doesn't even play hard all the time. If you are going to be the hulk, then play hard all the time."
"Shows some stiffness in his hips and is not a dynamic athlete."
"Upon first glance, Ogbah appears unimpressive because he doesn't play with the quickness or athleticism expected of productive pass rushers, but eventually, his translatable qualities avail themselves."
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A player's aptitude? Things like the three cone drill directly relate to how quickly a player can change direction, and that's what cleve was saying Ogbah can't do well enough to cover gronk. I'm saying, his change of direction is on par with Gronk's. Perhaps not someone like Sproles, but a tight end should be coverable.
That stuff about his stiffness or whatever, that relates to pass rushing.
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A player's aptitude? Things like the three cone drill directly relate to how quickly a player can change direction, and that's what cleve was saying Ogbah can't do well enough to cover gronk. I'm saying, his change of direction is on par with Gronk's. Perhaps not someone like Sproles, but a tight end should be coverable.
That stuff about his stiffness or whatever, that relates to pass rushing.
A player's aptitude? Things like the three cone drill directly relate to how quickly a player can change direction, and that's what cleve was saying Ogbah can't do well enough to cover gronk. I'm saying, his change of direction is on par with Gronk's. Perhaps not someone like Sproles, but a tight end should be coverable.
That stuff about his stiffness or whatever, that relates to pass rushing.
Did u watch any of his college tape? Theres nothing there that says he'd be even remotely qualified to run out in coverage. And in his first games he looked stiff and unagile coming off the line. Hey if he's getting stronger and can start powering off the edge thats great, we need that. We have olb'ers like schobert to go run with good TE's.
What of the experiments the past two or so years with making DE's run with TE's and slot receivers to resounding failure, makes you think mabe it'll be different now? Kruger, armonty,sheard, whatever bllodbaths name was.....all those guys failed hard going out into man coverage. Ogbah is mot some super athlete way beyond those guys. Kruger was probably the most athletic of those guys and u see how that worked out.
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A player's aptitude? Things like the three cone drill directly relate to how quickly a player can change direction, and that's what cleve was saying Ogbah can't do well enough to cover gronk. I'm saying, his change of direction is on par with Gronk's. Perhaps not someone like Sproles, but a tight end should be coverable.
That stuff about his stiffness or whatever, that relates to pass rushing.
Those cones don't move in the drill.. Gronk does. And next to Witten, might be one of very best at the stick or jerk move. Ogbah having good times doesn't mean he's a fluid athlete that can change direction wellA player's aptitude? Things like the three cone drill directly relate to how quickly a player can change direction, and that's what cleve was saying Ogbah can't do well enough to cover gronk. I'm saying, his change of direction is on par with Gronk's. Perhaps not someone like Sproles, but a tight end should be coverable.
That stuff about his stiffness or whatever, that relates to pass rushing.
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He should never play olb'er. I wanna see him get bigger and stronger and move around from the 5 to the 9 tech. We need a dude that can obliterate a tackles outside shoulder. Currently our edge rushers are going too wide with the exveption of nassib when his hand wasnt busted.
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And ofc ofbah this past weekend
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If only this weakness in coverage could have been predicted prior to the draft
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Speaking of homegrown talent, some trivia. An observation I just had is that I bet there are very few players in the NFL that have played their high school, college, and pro all in the same state.
Many get 2 out of 3 like Kosar...Played high school ball near Youngstown, and the Browns...but went to Miami.
Terrell Pryor...Ohio State and the Browns but played high school ball in Pa.
Big Ben, Jack Lambert, James Harrison...all played high school and college ball in Ohio, but are Steelers.
Right now I could only think of one to have completed the trifecta.... HOF'er Jack Ham. Played high school ball in Johnstown, Pa., Penn State, and the Steelers.
If there is anyone here that can come up with players that meet that trifecta its Gip.
Waddya say Gip?
Yeah I know Charlie Frye but the subject is homegrown "talent"...star players or players that make or have made a difference.
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Speaking of homegrown talent, some trivia. An observation I just had is that I bet there are very few players in the NFL that have played their high school, college, and pro all in the same state.
Many get 2 out of 3 like Kosar...Played high school ball near Youngstown, and the Browns...but went to Miami.
Terrell Pryor...Ohio State and the Browns but played high school ball in Pa.
Big Ben, Jack Lambert, James Harrison...all played high school and college ball in Ohio, but are Steelers.
Right now I could only think of one to have completed the trifecta.... HOF'er Jack Ham. Played high school ball in Johnstown, Pa., Penn State, and the Steelers.
If there is anyone here that can come up with players that meet that trifecta its Gip.
Waddya say Gip?
Yeah I know Charlie Frye but the subject is homegrown "talent"...star players or players that make or have made a difference.
Right now I could only think of one to have completed the trifecta.... HOF'er Jack Ham. Played high school ball in Johnstown, Pa., Penn State, and the Steelers.
If there is anyone here that can come up with players that meet that trifecta
Julius Peppers--Southern Nash HS- Bailey,NC---UNC Tarheels--Played Basketball also at both levels--NFL Carolina Panthers...And your Steelers SucK.....
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Speaking of homegrown talent, some trivia. An observation I just had is that I bet there are very few players in the NFL that have played their high school, college, and pro all in the same state.
Many get 2 out of 3 like Kosar...Played high school ball near Youngstown, and the Browns...but went to Miami.
Terrell Pryor...Ohio State and the Browns but played high school ball in Pa.
Big Ben, Jack Lambert, James Harrison...all played high school and college ball in Ohio, but are Steelers.
Right now I could only think of one to have completed the trifecta.... HOF'er Jack Ham. Played high school ball in Johnstown, Pa., Penn State, and the Steelers.
If there is anyone here that can come up with players that meet that trifecta its Gip.
Waddya say Gip?
Yeah I know Charlie Frye but the subject is homegrown "talent"...star players or players that make or have made a difference.
Speaking of homegrown talent, some trivia. An observation I just had is that I bet there are very few players in the NFL that have played their high school, college, and pro all in the same state.
Many get 2 out of 3 like Kosar...Played high school ball near Youngstown, and the Browns...but went to Miami.
Terrell Pryor...Ohio State and the Browns but played high school ball in Pa.
Big Ben, Jack Lambert, James Harrison...all played high school and college ball in Ohio, but are Steelers.
Right now I could only think of one to have completed the trifecta.... HOF'er Jack Ham. Played high school ball in Johnstown, Pa., Penn State, and the Steelers.
If there is anyone here that can come up with players that meet that trifecta its Gip.
Waddya say Gip?
Yeah I know Charlie Frye but the subject is homegrown "talent"...star players or players that make or have made a difference.
We've got lots of those guys:
Paul Warfield, Lou Groza, Bill Willis, Dante Lavelli, Dick Schafrath, Tommy James, Jim Houston, Tom DeLeone ...
The first four are HOF, the next four are Browns Legends ...
Zombo
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All good replies on Ogbah in Coverage. We left from a O'Neil system with Mingo & Robertson at OLB. To a Horton system now with Kirksey & Schobert at OLB. If the plan was Kirksey gives us what Robbie did? Kirksey has been damn close to some picks & breakups but just not making them yet. I think Kirksey will be by mid-season (like now).Still gotta believe Schobert will outplay Mingo at OLB with more reps. I'd call it a mid-season DRAW at OLB for now. Compared to last season.
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Bosa is going to be great! Ezekiel Elliot is great! The Browns passed on both! Go back to a 4-3 for crying out loud! Browns defense is an embarrassment to professional sports. Their perfect season is going to be a reality and they better draft a franchise QB!
Get rid of Sashi and Podesta, hire some scouts who actually know talent and put the muzzle on Haslam! Haslam is no Kraft or Jerry Jones that's for sure!
Bosa is going to be great! Ezekiel Elliot is great! The Browns passed on both! Go back to a 4-3 for crying out loud! Browns defense is an embarrassment to professional sports. Their perfect season is going to be a reality and they better draft a franchise QB!
Get rid of Sashi and Podesta, hire some scouts who actually know talent and put the muzzle on Haslam! Haslam is no Kraft or Jerry Jones that's for sure!
Holy hell, why do you keep talking as if the Browns were the lady In line at the grocery store who let the Chargers and Cowboys Go ahead of her because they only had one item.
The Browns were compensated for their willingness to move down and there are still a lot of variables to account for. If Coleman turns into a guy who can produce consistently the way he did against the Ravens, you still gonna bitch? If the Browns use the extra picks you seem to be forgetting to add pro bowl players to the roster, you gonna bitch?
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A player's aptitude? Things like the three cone drill directly relate to how quickly a player can change direction, and that's what cleve was saying Ogbah can't do well enough to cover gronk. I'm saying, his change of direction is on par with Gronk's. Perhaps not someone like Sproles, but a tight end should be coverable.
That stuff about his stiffness or whatever, that relates to pass rushing.
A player's aptitude? Things like the three cone drill directly relate to how quickly a player can change direction, and that's what cleve was saying Ogbah can't do well enough to cover gronk. I'm saying, his change of direction is on par with Gronk's. Perhaps not someone like Sproles, but a tight end should be coverable.
That stuff about his stiffness or whatever, that relates to pass rushing.
Chris- measurables aren't the be all and end all of predicting how a player will do in the NFL. Plenty of workout warriors have flopped, (Vernon Gholston) and guys who had lousy measurables are in the HOF- I'll give you two. Steve Largent and Ray Lewis (lock) were considered "too slow".
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Bosa is going to be great! Ezekiel Elliot is great! The Browns passed on both! Go back to a 4-3 for crying out loud! Browns defense is an embarrassment to professional sports. Their perfect season is going to be a reality and they better draft a franchise QB!
Get rid of Sashi and Podesta, hire some scouts who actually know talent and put the muzzle on Haslam! Haslam is no Kraft or Jerry Jones that's for sure!
Bosa is going to be great! Ezekiel Elliot is great! The Browns passed on both! Go back to a 4-3 for crying out loud! Browns defense is an embarrassment to professional sports. Their perfect season is going to be a reality and they better draft a franchise QB!
Get rid of Sashi and Podesta, hire some scouts who actually know talent and put the muzzle on Haslam! Haslam is no Kraft or Jerry Jones that's for sure!
Sure- firing people every year has worked great too.
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Interesting splinter conversations...
On 3-cones vs. reality...
Agree 3-cone and coverage techniques differ (no back-peddling in 3-cone), but the drill is a good agility check. The element it completely lacks is reaction time, but there are other ways to measure that.
On coverage...
Emphasis on the discussion seems to be man. I don't see that as Ogbah's forte, but for the frequency he will drop if he can get some depth in a zone, react to throws in his area and deliver a shot on the receiver... that'll do.
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Ogbah's leading us in sacks.. but still sucks vs the run. And defending the pass. Other than that, he's great.
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Ogbah hasnt taken the league by storm or anything.....but Ive reserved my judgement on him, cause I think they threw a lot at him, too early.....switching him from DE to OLB back to DE then to OLB all in a month or 2......
now....while he isnt making a lot of big play, he is quietly having a pretty decent season.....statistically, he has already equaled Krugers production for all of '15....and he seems to be getting a bit better as we go.....he is on track to have a similar rookie year to Sheard, who had 55 tackles and 8.5 sacks......I would be pleased with that, assuming he could build on it going forward and become a double digit sacker with 60-75 tackles.....
Nassib?.....needs work.....like his mentality.....but stat wise...7 tackles in 5 games is very little productivity.....
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In nassibs defense he's been club handing it for 2-3 games hasnt he? He started off real well, its a shsme csuse without that injury his progression might have been something to see by now. Im very pleasantly surprised by these twi edge guys we drafted. If they keep it up ill shut up about bosa
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In nassibs defense he's been club handing it for 2-3 games hasnt he? He started off real well, its a shsme csuse without that injury his progression might have been something to see by now. Im very pleasantly surprised by these twi edge guys we drafted. If they keep it up ill shut up about bosa
In nassibs defense he's been club handing it for 2-3 games hasnt he? He started off real well, its a shsme csuse without that injury his progression might have been something to see by now. Im very pleasantly surprised by these twi edge guys we drafted. If they keep it up ill shut up about bosa
Yep. They seem to show some promise that they can develop some pressure on the QB and get there.....Im optimistic that they will develop to the point that they are an upgrade over what we've had....BUT, I still dont see that "difference maker" maneater EVERY great defense has(and needs)......we gotta get 2 players...one for the line AND one at LB who are GREAT...not ok....
and, right now, Im fairly certain they are not here yet....
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