Browns Trade for Patriots LB Jamie Collins

gftChris

@tiamat63 said:

Funny he's liked by PFF because his play this year has been pretty averaged compared to what he's done before.

Basically Jamie is new Mingo except he's able to finish plays when he gets there.

He's been liked by them every year, pretty much - rookie team of the year in 2013, honorable mentions or similar for team of the year in 2014, 15, that kind of things.

Maybe he's having a down year (bad timing), but he's pretty consistent, and seems to be a well rounded, multi-dimensional player, who will allow us to roll with more disguised plays on D, and hopefully bring out the best in the guys around him as well (*cough* Kirksey *cough*).

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@gftchris said:

His agent said he's 'not upset just wants to go where he's wanted' - I guess he forgot the '...and has a chance of winning a game this year'.

Or, it could be a PR move? A signal to the players that it's not ok to give up on the season, that the FO and coaching staff is not giving up trying to win every damn game? Getting a guy who is a veteran of a winning organisation, injecting some winning mentality, if only for 6 months?

Collins was more of a package player in NE IIRC. Not considered an every down LB by them. I think he wants his opportunity to be the dude - he's going to be like Cleveland's Von Miller. We are likely building a defense around him, rather than having him be a situational player.

I don't think this bodes well for us getting Garrett, though.

tiamat63

Going to see a lot more 33 looks in nickel now. This means early down subpackages will have Ogbah and Carl will rotate in.

gftChris

I'm wondering if we're looking to switch to a 4-3 more permanently? With Nassib-Meder-Shelton-Ogbah on the line, then Collins-Davis-Kirksey as the backers. Hell, that's not a terrible front seven, even if the secondary is essentially some remote controlled tackle dummies.

Osiris

@gftchris said:
I'm wondering if we're looking to switch to a 4-3 more permanently? With Nassib-Meder-Shelton-Ogbah on the line, then Collins-Davis-Kirksey as the backers. Hell, that's not a terrible front seven, even if the secondary is essentially some remote controlled tackle dummies.

I hope so. We've basically been playing 4-3 more than anything else lately and that makes a lot of sense for our linebackers.

gftChris

It also makes sense for essentially all of our front seven guys except Shelton, who's a nose at heart, but he seems to be going along well enough that playing DT isn't so much of a problem for him.

gftChris

Next year, after injuries, you'd also have Desmond Bryant starting inside next to Danny Shelton, backed up by Meder and Cooper. Orchard backing up the ends, plus probably a relatively high draft pick.

At LB, you have Schobert backing up, though then you're down to basically nobody - Dominique Alexander isn't going to strike fear in to too many OCs. Could see another draft pick (or FA) needed here in the mould of Davis (middle of the pack, capable if limited starter and/or quality backup).

Then, that secondary...

jiggins7919

@gftchris said:
I'm wondering if we're looking to switch to a 4-3 more permanently? With Nassib-Meder-Shelton-Ogbah on the line, then Collins-Davis-Kirksey as the backers. Hell, that's not a terrible front seven, even if the secondary is essentially some remote controlled tackle dummies.

No, that's NOT a terrible front, and it's something to build on, right? Also, don't forget about getting Desmond Bryant back, if he's still under contract. I'm guessing that we'll release him, but who knows? Perhaps we can keep him. We need DEPTH now up front, and then we need to figure out the damn secondary. And no, I don't think that knocks Myles Garrett out of the running with the first pick either.

Even if we somehow get the first pick, I SEVERELY doubt that we'd keep it. There will be another team who is completely enamored with either Garrett or one of the QB's, and they will offer up the UNIVERSE for the top pick. It's an analytics jamboree, and I can't see how our new office could possibly say no. The VERY early guy on my radar, other than Garrett of course, is Trubisky. Love that guy, but really hoping we don't need him.

Osiris

@gftchris said:

Next year, after injuries, you'd also have Desmond Bryant starting inside next to Danny Shelton, backed up by Meder and Cooper. Orchard backing up the ends, plus probably a relatively high draft pick.

At LB, you have Schobert backing up, though then you're down to basically nobody - Dominique Alexander isn't going to strike fear in to too many OCs. Could see another draft pick (or FA) needed here in the mould of Davis (middle of the pack, capable if limited starter and/or quality backup).

Then, that secondary...

Lots of secondary free-agents 27 and under...

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/secondary/

gftChris

" Also, don't forget about getting Desmond Bryant back, if he's still under contract" - I didn't, and he is

gftChris

@osiris said:

Lots of secondary free-agents 27 and under...

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/secondary/

And an apparently deep draft class. Here's hoping we can pick up a better corner than the steelers or bengals managed with their first rounders this year.

LogicIsForSquares

@londonbrown said:
Will just franchise him won't we?

If they can't reach a deal. However, i think they traded for him with every intention of giving him a nice pay day. This way they don't have to bid with the rest of the NFL for his services.

Really like this move.

gftChris

@logicisforsquares said:

If they can't reach a deal. However, i think they traded for him with every intention of giving him a nice pay day. This way they don't have to bid with the rest of the NFL for his services.

Really like this move.

You have to think he'll be playing in cleveland next year, whether he likes it or not.

LogicIsForSquares

@gftchris said:
You have to think he'll be playing in cleveland next year, whether he likes it or not.

Indeed.

Hoping this guarantees an Allen pick at 1.

jiggins7919

Man, the state of our secondary really underscores the hurt of Gilbert's selection. The #8 pick of the draft could've really helped solidify the defense, instead he's an afterthought.

LondonBrown

@jiggins7919 said:
Man, the state of our secondary really underscores the hurt of Gilbert's selection. The #8 pick of the draft could've really helped solidify the defense, instead he's an afterthought.

Especially when you see how Roby and Verrett have performed out of that class. Albeit he's injured now

wargograw

Something I haven't seen mentioned: if we don't end up signing him to a long term deal, we will end up just getting our compensatory pick back, no? So literally no risk in this deal?

LogicIsForSquares

@wargograw said:
Something I haven't seen mentioned: if we don't end up signing him to a long term deal, we will end up just getting our compensatory pick back, no? So literally no risk in this deal?

He will get franchised if it comes to that. I believe we would get a compensatory 3rd in return for him letting him walk but I don't know for sure.

gftChris

@logicisforsquares said:
He will get franchised if it comes to that. I believe we would get a compensatory 3rd in return for him letting him walk but I don't know for sure.

I read somewhere it is a fourth, but it is obviously in 2018 and depends entirely on how this off-season pans out.

hoorta

@wargograw said:
Something I haven't seen mentioned: if we don't end up signing him to a long term deal, we will end up just getting our compensatory pick back, no? So literally no risk in this deal?

@logicisforsquares said:
He will get franchised if it comes to that. I believe we would get a compensatory 3rd in return for him letting him walk but I don't know for sure.

It's really a no risk deal- if he plays up to his potential, he gets paid, if he walks, the compensatory pick just gets pushed one year down the road.