Who takes the fall?
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just heard Jason La Canfora. agree with grossi in saying that if we continue on this track that the coaching staff and front office will be "Under Review" and to "Expect Changes" in the coaching.
I really think it's starting to become apparent that we MAY have made a mistake in Hue Jackson and we need to except that its becoming possible that we have new coaches again next year... between hiring ray horton and wasting most of our offseason with RG3 aswell as the general poor play this season and poor coaching its not entirely to be unexpected -
LaCanfora has a negative thing to say about the Browns? GTFO...
If Jackson goes, then I'd be shocked if most of the FO does not go as well... mostly via resignation. This tear down was epic... and it was by design. To not have the patience to see if your HC build a team over 3 years would be criminal.
The league might well have to step in...
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just heard Jason La Canfora. agree with grossi in saying that if we continue on this track that the coaching staff and front office will be "Under Review" and to "Expect Changes" in the coaching.
I really think it's starting to become apparent that we MAY have made a mistake in Hue Jackson and we need to except that its becoming possible that we have new coaches again next year... between hiring ray horton and wasting most of our offseason with RG3 aswell as the general poor play this season and poor coaching its not entirely to be unexpectedjust heard Jason La Canfora. agree with grossi in saying that if we continue on this track that the coaching staff and front office will be "Under Review" and to "Expect Changes" in the coaching.
I really think it's starting to become apparent that we MAY have made a mistake in Hue Jackson and we need to except that its becoming possible that we have new coaches again next year... between hiring ray horton and wasting most of our offseason with RG3 aswell as the general poor play this season and poor coaching its not entirely to be unexpected
I disagree. DePodesta told Haslem 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,' Well he can't just cry 'I wanna get off this ride is too scary!' after agreeing to go this route. He needs to ride it out and it's going to take a few years. If they clean house again I will burn my jersey.
No mistakes have been made. This roster has been gutted. This record is a result of the larger vision to rebuild the team properly. We hired exactly the right coach because he's got the intestinal fortitude to get more determined to win after every loss instead of slump his shoulders and give up (like Pettine).
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Fire the person that fired the SIX SCOUTS before the 2016 draft! Someone has to be held accountable for the worst draft in modern history! DePodesta and Sushi should be the first to get their Pink Slips! Hue stays because in reality it's Haslam who's to blame! It's not all on Hue! He has to get more than one draft and one season. FIRE HASLAM
Fire the person that fired the SIX SCOUTS before the 2016 draft! Someone has to be held accountable for the worst draft in modern history! DePodesta and Sushi should be the first to get their Pink Slips! Hue stays because in reality it's Haslam who's to blame! It's not all on Hue! He has to get more than one draft and one season. FIRE HASLAM
Worst draft in modern history? SMH. Not even close. This ranks somewhere near the top of just browns draft classes.
Or would you swap it for another round of Mingo-McFadden-Slaughter-Bryant-Gilkey from 2013?
How about the one two punch of Richardson and Weeden? Cleveland's answer to Prescott and Elliott folks!
Perhaps you're still on the Gilbert and Manziel bandwagon from 2014? Or are you pining instead for more Phil Taylor, Greg Little, and Owen Mariecic?
Aside from Alex Mack, the 2009 draft consisted of Robiskie, Massequoi, Veikune, Maiava - top quality talent that took us to the playoffs again and again.
I say these things not to rake over old coals, but to point out how stupid it is to say that this is the 'worst draft class in modern history' when it's not even close to the worst draft class in modern Cleveland history, let alone the rest of the league.
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just heard Jason La Canfora. agree with grossi in saying that if we continue on this track that the coaching staff and front office will be "Under Review" and to "Expect Changes" in the coaching.
I really think it's starting to become apparent that we MAY have made a mistake in Hue Jackson and we need to except that its becoming possible that we have new coaches again next year... between hiring ray horton and wasting most of our offseason with RG3 aswell as the general poor play this season and poor coaching its not entirely to be unexpectedjust heard Jason La Canfora. agree with grossi in saying that if we continue on this track that the coaching staff and front office will be "Under Review" and to "Expect Changes" in the coaching.
I really think it's starting to become apparent that we MAY have made a mistake in Hue Jackson and we need to except that its becoming possible that we have new coaches again next year... between hiring ray horton and wasting most of our offseason with RG3 aswell as the general poor play this season and poor coaching its not entirely to be unexpected
Who do you want to hire? What record do you expect them to have next year?
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LaCanfora has a negative thing to say about the Browns? GTFO...
If Jackson goes, then I'd be shocked if most of the FO does not go as well... mostly via resignation. This tear down was epic... and it was by design. To not have the patience to see if your HC build a team over 3 years would be criminal.
The league might well have to step in...
LaCanfora has a negative thing to say about the Browns? GTFO...
If Jackson goes, then I'd be shocked if most of the FO does not go as well... mostly via resignation. This tear down was epic... and it was by design. To not have the patience to see if your HC build a team over 3 years would be criminal.
The league might well have to step in...
after losing out and showing limited to no improvement i wonder if you'll hold on to that argument...
the league may well step in if we DONT become more competitive. there has been very very little improvement in the past 12 contests aswell there is no sense in wasting a year on a group of coaches who cant teach fundamentals. Our Front Office has been pretty on point we traded mingo and a 5th for colins and a COMP 3rd. We traded a pro bowl punter for ANOTHER pro bowl punter for a net gain. Almost all of the drafted players have made an impact or shown flashes of brilliance. Hell Kessler has a 65% comp rate and a QB Rating of 94+ best of the team. We have brought in some young talent to build with and we are failing in developing them.
I dont want jackson to be fired i like his style and i like his enthusiasm. BUT if he doesn't perform you have to move on that's the nature of the league.
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just heard Jason La Canfora. agree with grossi in saying that if we continue on this track that the coaching staff and front office will be "Under Review" and to "Expect Changes" in the coaching.
I really think it's starting to become apparent that we MAY have made a mistake in Hue Jackson and we need to except that its becoming possible that we have new coaches again next year... between hiring ray horton and wasting most of our offseason with RG3 aswell as the general poor play this season and poor coaching its not entirely to be unexpected
Who do you want to hire? What record do you expect them to have next year?
Who do you want to hire? What record do you expect them to have next year?
4-12 with improvement and competitive games
Bear in mind this thread is about worse case scenario where we lose all our games without significant improvement
Matt Patricia is my number one but i doubt he'll come into this situation
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So you don't think Hue will go 4-12 next year? Because that is what you're saying. And that is a dumb take.
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So you don't think Hue will go 4-12 next year? Because that is what you're saying. And that is a dumb take.
So you don't think Hue will go 4-12 next year? Because that is what you're saying. And that is a dumb take.
with how we look right now its entirely possible we fail to achieve a 25% win rate next year its HIGHLY unlikely we win 4 games this year. And how many games do we lose for you to say we may have made a mistake in coaching?
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just heard Jason La Canfora. agree with grossi in saying that if we continue on this track that the coaching staff and front office will be "Under Review" and to "Expect Changes" in the coaching.
I really think it's starting to become apparent that we MAY have made a mistake in Hue Jackson and we need to except that its becoming possible that we have new coaches again next year... between hiring ray horton and wasting most of our offseason with RG3 aswell as the general poor play this season and poor coaching its not entirely to be unexpected
Who do you want to hire? What record do you expect them to have next year?
Who do you want to hire? What record do you expect them to have next year?
"Anybody else! Super Bowlz!"
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Fire the person that fired the SIX SCOUTS before the 2016 draft! Someone has to be held accountable for the worst draft in modern history! DePodesta and Sushi should be the first to get their Pink Slips! Hue stays because in reality it's Haslam who's to blame! It's not all on Hue! He has to get more than one draft and one season. FIRE HASLAM
Fire the person that fired the SIX SCOUTS before the 2016 draft! Someone has to be held accountable for the worst draft in modern history! DePodesta and Sushi should be the first to get their Pink Slips! Hue stays because in reality it's Haslam who's to blame! It's not all on Hue! He has to get more than one draft and one season. FIRE HASLAM
You do know when those scouts were fired, their reports were already in the FO's hands? Probably not. Yeah- reportedly, a bunch of them wanted Wentz. The "philosophy" is pretty clear now- it's amass picks, build for the future. We used one of those amassed picks to pick up a potential top shelf LB, who's still pretty young.
LaCanfora has a negative thing to say about the Browns? GTFO...
If Jackson goes, then I'd be shocked if most of the FO does not go as well... mostly via resignation. This tear down was epic... and it was by design. To not have the patience to see if your HC build a team over 3 years would be criminal.
The league might well have to step in...
For those who don't know yet LaCanfora hates the Browns. Yup, it was a tear down to the foundation, I was just hoping it wouldn't result in no wins. Getting a bunch of key injuries hasn't help much either. Coleman has played one game, Bitonio is out for the year, Haden has missed significant time, and is playing on one leg.
Tour I agree, this is going to be a multi year rebuild. We'll just have to relax and try to not let the current suckage bother us too much.
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So you don't think Hue will go 4-12 next year? Because that is what you're saying. And that is a dumb take.
with how we look right now its entirely possible we fail to achieve a 25% win rate next year its HIGHLY unlikely we win 4 games this year. And how many games do we lose for you to say we may have made a mistake in coaching?
with how we look right now its entirely possible we fail to achieve a 25% win rate next year its HIGHLY unlikely we win 4 games this year. And how many games do we lose for you to say we may have made a mistake in coaching?
I won't even be evaluating coaching until the end of 2018, at the earliest. We have sucked for a decade and a half. So if we suck through 2018 and fire Hue then, what difference to the course of history was made in retaining him? You might as well try it a different way.
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with how we look right now its entirely possible we fail to achieve a 25% win rate next year its HIGHLY unlikely we win 4 games this year. And how many games do we lose for you to say we may have made a mistake in coaching?
I won't even be evaluating coaching until the end of 2018, at the earliest. We have sucked for a decade and a half. So if we suck through 2018 and fire Hue then, what difference to the course of history was made in retaining him? You might as well try it a different way.
I won't even be evaluating coaching until the end of 2018, at the earliest. We have sucked for a decade and a half. So if we suck through 2018 and fire Hue then, what difference to the course of history was made in retaining him? You might as well try it a different way.
that's a losing mentality war. we have done a rebuild and still been an entertaining/competitive team to watch. This is not the case this time and it's primarily our defenses failing of which we are ranked 32nd in the league. Jackson has been a boon to our offense even though his player evaluation is lacking especially in Erving and Griffin both of which have been terrible. Horton has been bad for the past 5 years and quite frankly I'm afraid he only got the job because of his ethnicity. I'm hoping this was an isolated incident but RG3 may be an indication of a unjust favoritism. I'm hoping this is not the case and this is just a coincidence. In that case it would be likely that his "Voice" in the acquisition/draft process is less valued. I Really and truly believe Hue can be a valuable coach for the browns but he's going to need to prove something THIS season. and so far he's proven why we need to try again.
to be fair this argument is rather one-sided as there is no empirical evidence that you can present that suggests he will be a better coach in 2017 than he has been in 2016 in fact we pretty much have a 25-35% game win chance currently right? we've all seen that graphic. It is less likely statistically to have less than 4 wins in a season than it is to have 4-6 wins in a season purely from the law of averages so when you see we are on course to have less than that you can safely say SOMETHING is decreasing our chances of winning be it gameplan/coaching/player evaluation/roster. what we can take from this is SOMETHING is not working right and considering the HC job is to make it all work together its the most obvious indication of a problem.
I REALLY like the analytics side of football I always have and likely always will. for example the probability of us losing out using a low average just 25% chance to lose the next 8 games is about 10% where as at the start of the season the chance of losing all games was 0.5%.
long story short Keep Hue if he demonstrates better decision making and Horton is on the Bubble. Also Al Saunders has been a great help to our WR core
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I won't even be evaluating coaching until the end of 2018, at the earliest. We have sucked for a decade and a half. So if we suck through 2018 and fire Hue then, what difference to the course of history was made in retaining him? You might as well try it a different way.
that's a losing mentality war. we have done a rebuild and still been an entertaining/competitive team to watch. This is not the case this time and it's primarily our defenses failing of which we are ranked 32nd in the league. Jackson has been a boon to our offense even though his player evaluation is lacking especially in Erving and Griffin both of which have been terrible. Horton has been bad for the past 5 years and quite frankly I'm afraid he only got the job because of his ethnicity. I'm hoping this was an isolated incident but RG3 may be an indication of a unjust favoritism. I'm hoping this is not the case and this is just a coincidence. In that case it would be likely that his "Voice" in the acquisition/draft process is less valued. I Really and truly believe Hue can be a valuable coach for the browns but he's going to need to prove something THIS season. and so far he's proven why we need to try again.
to be fair this argument is rather one-sided as there is no empirical evidence that you can present that suggests he will be a better coach in 2017 than he has been in 2016 in fact we pretty much have a 25-35% game win chance currently right? we've all seen that graphic. It is less likely statistically to have less than 4 wins in a season than it is to have 4-6 wins in a season purely from the law of averages so when you see we are on course to have less than that you can safely say SOMETHING is decreasing our chances of winning be it gameplan/coaching/player evaluation/roster. what we can take from this is SOMETHING is not working right and considering the HC job is to make it all work together its the most obvious indication of a problem.
I REALLY like the analytics side of football I always have and likely always will. for example the probability of us losing out using a low average just 25% chance to lose the next 8 games is about 10% where as at the start of the season the chance of losing all games was 0.5%.
long story short Keep Hue if he demonstrates better decision making and Horton is on the Bubble. Also Al Saunders has been a great help to our WR core
that's a losing mentality war. we have done a rebuild and still been an entertaining/competitive team to watch. This is not the case this time and it's primarily our defenses failing of which we are ranked 32nd in the league. Jackson has been a boon to our offense even though his player evaluation is lacking especially in Erving and Griffin both of which have been terrible. Horton has been bad for the past 5 years and quite frankly I'm afraid he only got the job because of his ethnicity. I'm hoping this was an isolated incident but RG3 may be an indication of a unjust favoritism. I'm hoping this is not the case and this is just a coincidence. In that case it would be likely that his "Voice" in the acquisition/draft process is less valued. I Really and truly believe Hue can be a valuable coach for the browns but he's going to need to prove something THIS season. and so far he's proven why we need to try again.
to be fair this argument is rather one-sided as there is no empirical evidence that you can present that suggests he will be a better coach in 2017 than he has been in 2016 in fact we pretty much have a 25-35% game win chance currently right? we've all seen that graphic. It is less likely statistically to have less than 4 wins in a season than it is to have 4-6 wins in a season purely from the law of averages so when you see we are on course to have less than that you can safely say SOMETHING is decreasing our chances of winning be it gameplan/coaching/player evaluation/roster. what we can take from this is SOMETHING is not working right and considering the HC job is to make it all work together its the most obvious indication of a problem.
I REALLY like the analytics side of football I always have and likely always will. for example the probability of us losing out using a low average just 25% chance to lose the next 8 games is about 10% where as at the start of the season the chance of losing all games was 0.5%.
long story short Keep Hue if he demonstrates better decision making and Horton is on the Bubble. Also Al Saunders has been a great help to our WR core
A losing mentality is continuing the same thing (firing constantly) when it clearly hasn't worked. The record of your side's idea (firing constantly) not working is ALOT longer than the record of my side not working (these 8 losses).
So the racist drafted a white QB about 4 rounds too high (according to most), why exactly?
I'm tired of people saying "we have done a rebuild before." On this level? When exactly? We literally got rid of all but two of our plus players in the offseason (Haden and Thomas--and calling the former a "plus player" is generous). THE. TEAM. HAS. NO. EXPERIENCED. TALENT. There is not a person on earth that could win 4 games with this group next year. It's absurd to even discuss firing Hue because you can't give his coaching job a real evaluation with the lack of talent on this team. Stop it. You're hurting the Browns.
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that's a losing mentality war. we have done a rebuild and still been an entertaining/competitive team to watch. This is not the case this time and it's primarily our defenses failing of which we are ranked 32nd in the league. Jackson has been a boon to our offense even though his player evaluation is lacking especially in Erving and Griffin both of which have been terrible. Horton has been bad for the past 5 years and quite frankly I'm afraid he only got the job because of his ethnicity. I'm hoping this was an isolated incident but RG3 may be an indication of a unjust favoritism. I'm hoping this is not the case and this is just a coincidence. In that case it would be likely that his "Voice" in the acquisition/draft process is less valued. I Really and truly believe Hue can be a valuable coach for the browns but he's going to need to prove something THIS season. and so far he's proven why we need to try again.
to be fair this argument is rather one-sided as there is no empirical evidence that you can present that suggests he will be a better coach in 2017 than he has been in 2016 in fact we pretty much have a 25-35% game win chance currently right? we've all seen that graphic. It is less likely statistically to have less than 4 wins in a season than it is to have 4-6 wins in a season purely from the law of averages so when you see we are on course to have less than that you can safely say SOMETHING is decreasing our chances of winning be it gameplan/coaching/player evaluation/roster. what we can take from this is SOMETHING is not working right and considering the HC job is to make it all work together its the most obvious indication of a problem.
I REALLY like the analytics side of football I always have and likely always will. for example the probability of us losing out using a low average just 25% chance to lose the next 8 games is about 10% where as at the start of the season the chance of losing all games was 0.5%.
long story short Keep Hue if he demonstrates better decision making and Horton is on the Bubble. Also Al Saunders has been a great help to our WR core
A losing mentality is continuing the same thing (firing constantly) when it clearly hasn't worked. The record of your side's idea (firing constantly) not working is ALOT longer than the record of my side not working (these 8 losses).
So the racist drafted a white QB about 4 rounds too high (according to most), why exactly?
I'm tired of people saying "we have done a rebuild before." On this level? When exactly? We literally got rid of all but two of our plus players in the offseason (Haden and Thomas--and calling the former a "plus player" is generous). THE. TEAM. HAS. NO. EXPERIENCED. TALENT. There is not a person on earth that could win 4 games with this group next year. It's absurd to even discuss firing Hue because you can't give his coaching job a real evaluation with the lack of talent on this team. Stop it. You're hurting the Browns.
I'm tired of people saying "we have done a rebuild before." On this level? When exactly? We literally got rid of all but two of our plus players in the offseason (Haden and Thomas--and calling the former a "plus player" is generous). THE. TEAM. HAS. NO. EXPERIENCED. TALENT. There is not a person on earth that could win 4 games with this group next year. It's absurd to even discuss firing Hue because you can't give his coaching job a real evaluation with the lack of talent on this team. Stop it. You're hurting the Browns.
Exactly.....this team doesn't have that much talent on it. Collins will help that on defense. For everyone who is saying look how great Wentz is and we passed that up. Look at his numbers from last night. 32-43 for 202, 6 yards per pass average. The dude is the ultimate captain check down. With the talent that team has, especially on defense, Kessler could put up those numbers. This team will not win until it can play defense and stop giving up 30+ per game. No team in the league can win giving up that many points.
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I am aware we don't have much talent but if you do not know how to freaking tackle then you should of been cut months ago. I saw players standing and watching other players either miss tackles or struggle to make a tackle.
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Wouldnt surprise me to see coaching changes, but I would be shocked if it was Hue.......look.....if Haslam fired Hue after this season, there is NO ONE that would agree to work for him or coach this team.....so no matter how poorly Hue or his team do, he's staying......guaranteed.
All Haslams previous fuck ups have forced his hand here....he cannot do it again.....
And in RE to everyone screaming it's just the D, lets get real and admit the D and the O are equally poor....
Basically....NFL median score is 24 pts a game...scored/allowed....thats the average....
Browns score 19 points a game.....5 pts below average
Browns allow 29 points a game......5 pts below average...
So we are....on average.....5 points worse on O and 5 points worse on D.....maling it a perfect wash for terrible on both sides of the ball....
and it confirms our 10 pts per game differential, which is the worst in the league....dead last....
Sooo.....Yeah, we gotta fix that D.....but we also gotta fix that O...... just the same...
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But were 12th in total offense for yards and 32nd in defense for yards. Lets not start cherry picking stats here our offense has looked better than our defense. Yea we are lousy in the red zone but as a whole our offense has played better than expected and defense much worse than expected...
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