California Proposition 8
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\ said:
I know we spoke a bit about Cal Prop 8 on the old site, but I feel like this is a good time to revisit it, as it looks as if, with 95% of precincts reporting, Proposition 8 (ban on gay marriage) will probably pass.What hits me more than surprise, is the embarrassment I felt coming into work this morning. Working in a creative industry, I work with closely with a lot of gay dudes, many of which I am pretty decent friends with. Sporting my shiny new wedding ring (they were more excited for me to get married than I was), I get to look them in the face knowing the rest of us let them down, big time. If/when Prop 8 passes, equality gets thrown out of the window. But, yes, the people of the State of California have spoken and it appears more folks are against it than for it, so be it.
This goes well beyond what the Bible claims marriage means. It's about equality. We care more about Standards for Confining Farm Animals than we do for some of our human counterparts, and I find this tragic.
I disagree but you make fair points, mz the pussy.
I believe it is wrong.
You make it sound like The Bible has limited relevance. I disagree with you on that, too.
But there is nothing wrong with people disagreeing. In fact, it tends to be a healthy thing as long as it is constructive and not personal.
PS 'Tourism' in MA and CT - where I was born and where I now live - will be picking up sharply .
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Yeah, its time will come. But this was a big setback. Of all places, I didn't expect this of California.
Sad.
Try to wrap your head around the idea of someone voting on the legitimacy of your heterosexual marriage...
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\ said:
Yeah, its time will come. But this was a big setback. Of all places, I didn't expect this of California.Sad.
Try to wrap your head around the idea of someone voting on the legitimacy of your heterosexual marriage...
That was redundant, Heck.
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\ said:
You make it sound like The Bible has limited relevance. I disagree with you on that, too.I know, John. It's just a fundamental disagreement we (and some many others like us) will have in perpetuity. I think it has unlimited relevance for those who choose to believe in it/live by it. But, when we see something like Prop 8 get passed, it applies its principles at the State level, which I have a tough time condoning...
And I honestly do respect your opinion, even though I have a tough time understanding it when I actually see the faces of the people affected. It hits closer to home for me than it does some other folks. It really is a shame that Amendments to the Bible can't be made as they are to our Constitution. I think maybe there'd be an update or two taking modern society into consideration.
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Disappointing. I heard that the age demo was really stark. Gay marriage will be legal and accepted across the nation in 10 years, when the current 55 plus crowd gets nudged out.Common sense would agree with you, but the numbers are a little less clear:
18-29 (20% of voters) 37% voted for the ban
30-44 (28% of voters) 53%
45-64 (36% of voters) 53%
65+ (16% of voters) 59%
That looks okay as far as the future (maybe the distant future) goes. But indications from other states arent as promising. FL had more than 50% in every age group.
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That statement is correct. I'm not sure how much these numbers change over time, so it's difficult to predict future votes (or whether or not CA will use this format next time they address it), but the younger voters definitely broke from the majority on this.
Still, results like we saw in a state like FL make me wonder if the next generation's views are really as different as we think.
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\ said:
18-29 (20% of voters) 37% voted for the ban30-44 (28% of voters) 53%
45-64 (36% of voters) 53%
65+ (16% of voters) 59%
I think, as with all demographics, they need to be separated/further broken down. Those groups are just too darn big.
That whole "males 18-34" shit never flew with me because 18 year olds are vastly different, in every imaginable way, from 34 year olds. I don't feel AS STRONGLY for the difference between 30 and 44 year olds, but it is close.
What I'm saying is I think you're both correct, it's all how you look at the data....
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From the LA Times, look at these scary, weird people cheering the ban on gay marriage. Any straight man/woman who gets this excited over something that doesn't effect them one iota is downright frightening.
Well, it is Orange County, where McCain defeated Obama...
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Disappointing. I heard that the age demo was really stark. Gay marriage will be legal and accepted across the nation in 10 years, when the current 55 plus crowd gets nudged out.http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la- ... 6881.story
Yeah Shep, that must be it.
WSS
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\ said:
Black males are about as homophobic as it gets' date=' Steve. Pretty well known. Deep, deep cultural thing.Sure glad somebody on the 'other side' didn't utter such racist rhetoric. There would be hell to pay. I guess saying that this is a 'deep cultural thing' is true only in this instance and not in any of the other stereotypes.
PS Black males don't go down on their Shorties, either.
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\ said:
PS Black males don't go down on their Shorties, either.Evidently, according to Junior on the Sopranos, neither do Italian dudes.
Anybody remember the ep?
Yeah, that was the first or second season... a while ago!
I miss that series being on, it was really entertaining.
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\ said:
Black males are about as homophobic as it gets, Steve. Pretty well known. Deep, deep cultural thing.Bottom line is that we no longer live in a culture where being a heterosexual male of European descent is a trump card. We truly will be living King, Jr.'s vision of a world where you're judged by the content of your character... and your intelligence, skill, talent, beauty, height, weight, integrity, kindness, etc. (!). But not much by your skin color, religion, gender, or sexual orientatation.
The dial has moved a ton in just the past decade or so. It'll double that pace in the next decade or so.
It certainly has Shep. You had better hope the story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is just a fairy tale.
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\ said:
\ said:
PS Black males don't go down on their Shorties, either.Evidently, according to Junior on the Sopranos, neither do Italian dudes.
Anybody remember the ep?
When it smells like roses and tastes like whipped cream I'll eat a lot more of it.
WSS
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\ said:
\ said:
Black males are about as homophobic as it gets, Steve. Pretty well known. Deep, deep cultural thing.Bottom line is that we no longer live in a culture where being a heterosexual male of European descent is a trump card. We truly will be living King, Jr.'s vision of a world where you're judged by the content of your character... and your intelligence, skill, talent, beauty, height, weight, integrity, kindness, etc. (!). But not much by your skin color, religion, gender, or sexual orientatation.
The dial has moved a ton in just the past decade or so. It'll double that pace in the next decade or so.
It certainly has Shep. You had better hope the story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is just a fairy tale.
It is.
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Most Calif. blacks backed proposition 8
53 percent of Latinos also supported the gay-marriage ban
High black voter turnout helped pass Prop 8
Nov. 6: California voters narrowly approved a measure to ban same-sex marriage, reversing a court decision in May that allowed it. NBC's Pete Williams reports.
LOS ANGELES, Nov. 6 - Any notion that Tuesday's election represented a liberal juggernaut must overcome a detail from the voting booths of California: The same voters who turned out strongest for Barack Obama also drove a stake through the heart of same-sex marriage.
Seven in 10 African Americans who went to the polls voted yes on Proposition 8, the ballot measure overruling a state Supreme Court judgment that legalized same-sex marriage and brought 18,000 gay and lesbian couples to Golden State courthouses in the past six months.
Similar measures passed easily in Florida and Arizona. It was closer in California, but no ethnic group anywhere rejected the sanctioning of same-sex unions as emphatically as the state's black voters, according to exit polls. Fifty-three percent of Latinos also backed Proposition 8, overcoming the bare majority of white Californians who voted to let the court ruling stand.
The outcome that placed two pillars of the Democratic coalition -- minorities and gays -- at opposite ends of an emotional issue sparked street protests in Los Angeles and a candlelight vigil in San Francisco. To gay rights advocates, the issue was one of civil rights. Attorney General Edmund G. "Jerry" Brown Jr. reworded the ballot language to state that a yes vote was a vote to "eliminate the rights of same-sex couples to marry."
That appeal ran head-on into a well-funded and well-framed advertising campaign in favor of the ban -- and the deeply ingrained religious beliefs of an African American community that largely declined to see the issue through a prism of equality.
"I think it's mainly because of the way we were brought up in the church; we don't agree with it," said Jasmine Jones, 25, who is black. "I'm not really the type that I wanted to stop people's rights. But I still have my beliefs, and if I can vote my beliefs that's what I'm going to do.
"God doesn't approve it, so I don't approve it. And I approve of Him."
The overwhelming rejection of same-sex marriage by black voters was surprising and disappointing to gay rights advocates who had hoped that African Americans would empathize with their struggle.
"I wasn't surprised by the Latinos," said Steve Smith, senior consultant for No on 8. "Basically, Latinos and the Anglo population were fairly close. The outlier of the proposition was African Americans. Many are churchgoing; many had ministers tell them to vote."
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