Who takes the fall?
-
Good points. We would not be able to attract anyone better with a known short leash.
Where do you find "anyone better" period in mid-season that is not already on the staff?
Here are your choices... http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/coaches.html
Where do you find "anyone better" period in mid-season that is not already on the staff?
Here are your choices... http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/coaches.html
He was talking after the season, as was I.
-
Well i thought surely the cowboys game was the worst game i'd see from the browns this year.... I was wrong...
Well the bright positives and progress we had been making this season have been notably absent the paat two games...
I think it is safe to say that 0-16 is exceptionally likely at this point.
Also it's safe to say that sticking with jackson and staff would be an effort in continuity for the sake of it, not because it is deserved.
It takes YEARS to build a contender but it only takes 1 to know what you have and i think we are starting to see why the raiders made the decision they made and what i believe will be the decision we make at the conclusion of the season
-
Well i thought surely the cowboys game was the worst game i'd see from the browns this year.... I was wrong...
Well the bright positives and progress we had been making this season have been notably absent the paat two games...
I think it is safe to say that 0-16 is exceptionally likely at this point.
Also it's safe to say that sticking with jackson and staff would be an effort in continuity for the sake of it, not because it is deserved.
It takes YEARS to build a contender but it only takes 1 to know what you have and i think we are starting to see why the raiders made the decision they made and what i believe will be the decision we make at the conclusion of the season
Well i thought surely the cowboys game was the worst game i'd see from the browns this year.... I was wrong...
Well the bright positives and progress we had been making this season have been notably absent the paat two games...
I think it is safe to say that 0-16 is exceptionally likely at this point.
Also it's safe to say that sticking with jackson and staff would be an effort in continuity for the sake of it, not because it is deserved.
It takes YEARS to build a contender but it only takes 1 to know what you have and i think we are starting to see why the raiders made the decision they made and what i believe will be the decision we make at the conclusion of the season
So it only took one year to see what Chuck Noll was all about? Billy up in New England? Bill Walsh? Bill parcells? How's about Tom Landry?
Even the coaching giants of the game started rough. Find yourself a chair and have a seat.
-
you seem to have this rhetoric only mentioning the successful coaches who struggled early rather than VAST majority of coaches who struggled early never to find success in their nfl coaching career. How ABOUT the successful coaches who flourished early and maintained a good record throughout their career.
Your really showing your bias here tiamat. Any chance for an original objective thought today? -
Where do you find "anyone better" period in mid-season that is not already on the staff?
Here are your choices... http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/coaches.html
He was talking after the season, as was I.
He was talking after the season, as was I.
Well... in that case... nevermind...
How ABOUT the successful coaches who flourished early and maintained a good record throughout their career.
How long is that list?
-
Don Shula,Vince Lombardi,Joe Gibbs,Bill B
Ron Rivera,Mike Holmgren,Jason Garrett,Gray Kubiak,Brian Billick,Wade Phillips,John Harbaugh
Sean Payton,Jon Gruden,John Madden,Mike Mcarthy,George Seifert,Marvin Lewis,Mike Ditka
Jim Mora,John Fox,Bill Cowher,Mike Shanahan,Jeff Fisher,Dan Reeves and Marty Schottenheimer
Only coaches with more than 50 wins and a winning percentage of greater the 50% included
I've omitted a lot of the other coachs aswell as frankly i didn't know who they were >.< -
Thanks... But remember tia was talking one year... so let's audit that list:
- Don Shula - in BLT inherited a 7-7 team from Weeb and went 8-6; in MIA took a 3-10 to 10-4... so that's +0.5
- Vince Lombardi - took a 1-10 GB to 7-5... check; took 5-9 WSH to 7-5-2... so there's your other half... +0.5
- George Halas - 10-1-2 in 1920 with the Staleys (I love that name); in 1932 took a 7-1-6 (yes, 6 ties!) Champion Bears team to 10-2-1; in 1946 took 3-7 to 8-2-1 but team was restocked with returning GIs; 1958 followed 5-7 with 8-4... Check... +1
- Joe Gibbs - took 6-10 WSH to 8-8 in 1981; returned in a 5-11 team in 1986 and went 6-10... so no... +0
- Bill B - took the 3-13 Browns to 6-10; took the 8-8 Pats to 5-11.... nope... +0
- Paul Brown - dominated a weak AAFC from the opening gun going 12-2 and built a monster by the time we enterred the NFL 4 years later... +1
- Ron Rivera, 2-14 to 6-10... meh... +0
- Mike Holmgren, GB 4-12 to 9-7; SEA 8-8 to 9-7... +0.5
- Jason Garrett, 5-3 (split w/ fired Wade Phillips) to 8-8... not feeling generous... +0
- Rex Ryan, NYJ 9-7 to 9-7; BUF 9-7 to 8-8... +0... and since it's Wreckin' Rex you're lucky I don't dock 2 points
- Gray Kubiak, HOU 2-14 to 6-10; DNV 12-4 to 12-4... HOU is tempting, but... +0
- Brian Billick, 6-10 to 8-8... NO... (see Rex Ryan) +0
- Wade Phillips, way too much work... but has failed in all three of his full time gigs... +0
- John Harbaugh, 5-11 to 11-5... easy +1
So I'll give you 4 of 14...
Rebuttle?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Thanks... But remember tia was talking one year... so let's audit that list:
- Don Shula - in BLT inherited a 7-7 team from Weeb and went 8-6; in MIA took a 3-10 to 10-4... so that's +0.5
- Vince Lombardi - took a 1-10 GB to 7-5... check; took 5-9 WSH to 7-5-2... so there's your other half... +0.5
- George Halas - 10-1-2 in 1920 with the Staleys (I love that name); in 1932 took a 7-1-6 (yes, 6 ties!) Champion Bears team to 10-2-1; in 1946 took 3-7 to 8-2-1 but team was restocked with returning GIs; 1958 followed 5-7 with 8-4... Check... +1
- Joe Gibbs - took 6-10 WSH to 8-8 in 1981; returned in a 5-11 team in 1986 and went 6-10... so no... +0
- Bill B - took the 3-13 Browns to 6-10; took the 8-8 Pats to 5-11.... nope... +0
- Paul Brown - dominated a weak AAFC from the opening gun going 12-2 and built a monster by the time we enterred the NFL 4 years later... +1
- Ron Rivera, 2-14 to 6-10... meh... +0
- Mike Holmgren, GB 4-12 to 9-7; SEA 8-8 to 9-7... +0.5
- Jason Garrett, 5-3 (split w/ fired Wade Phillips) to 8-8... not feeling generous... +0
- Rex Ryan, NYJ 9-7 to 9-7; BUF 9-7 to 8-8... +0... and since it's Wreckin' Rex you're lucky I don't dock 2 points
- Gray Kubiak, HOU 2-14 to 6-10; DNV 12-4 to 12-4... HOU is tempting, but... +0
- Brian Billick, 6-10 to 8-8... NO... (see Rex Ryan) +0
- Wade Phillips, way too much work... but has failed in all three of his full time gigs... +0
- John Harbaugh, 5-11 to 11-5... easy +1
So I'll give you 4 of 14...
Rebuttle?
Thanks... But remember tia was talking one year... so let's audit that list:
- Don Shula - in BLT inherited a 7-7 team from Weeb and went 8-6; in MIA took a 3-10 to 10-4... so that's +0.5
- Vince Lombardi - took a 1-10 GB to 7-5... check; took 5-9 WSH to 7-5-2... so there's your other half... +0.5
- George Halas - 10-1-2 in 1920 with the Staleys (I love that name); in 1932 took a 7-1-6 (yes, 6 ties!) Champion Bears team to 10-2-1; in 1946 took 3-7 to 8-2-1 but team was restocked with returning GIs; 1958 followed 5-7 with 8-4... Check... +1
- Joe Gibbs - took 6-10 WSH to 8-8 in 1981; returned in a 5-11 team in 1986 and went 6-10... so no... +0
- Bill B - took the 3-13 Browns to 6-10; took the 8-8 Pats to 5-11.... nope... +0
- Paul Brown - dominated a weak AAFC from the opening gun going 12-2 and built a monster by the time we enterred the NFL 4 years later... +1
- Ron Rivera, 2-14 to 6-10... meh... +0
- Mike Holmgren, GB 4-12 to 9-7; SEA 8-8 to 9-7... +0.5
- Jason Garrett, 5-3 (split w/ fired Wade Phillips) to 8-8... not feeling generous... +0
- Rex Ryan, NYJ 9-7 to 9-7; BUF 9-7 to 8-8... +0... and since it's Wreckin' Rex you're lucky I don't dock 2 points
- Gray Kubiak, HOU 2-14 to 6-10; DNV 12-4 to 12-4... HOU is tempting, but... +0
- Brian Billick, 6-10 to 8-8... NO... (see Rex Ryan) +0
- Wade Phillips, way too much work... but has failed in all three of his full time gigs... +0
- John Harbaugh, 5-11 to 11-5... easy +1
So I'll give you 4 of 14...
Rebuttle?
Dammit stop letting facts get in the way of a great rant.
-
Thanks... But remember tia was talking one year... so let's audit that list:
- Don Shula - in BLT inherited a 7-7 team from Weeb and went 8-6; in MIA took a 3-10 to 10-4... so that's +0.5
- Vince Lombardi - took a 1-10 GB to 7-5... check; took 5-9 WSH to 7-5-2... so there's your other half... +0.5
- George Halas - 10-1-2 in 1920 with the Staleys (I love that name); in 1932 took a 7-1-6 (yes, 6 ties!) Champion Bears team to 10-2-1; in 1946 took 3-7 to 8-2-1 but team was restocked with returning GIs; 1958 followed 5-7 with 8-4... Check... +1
- Joe Gibbs - took 6-10 WSH to 8-8 in 1981; returned in a 5-11 team in 1986 and went 6-10... so no... +0
- Bill B - took the 3-13 Browns to 6-10; took the 8-8 Pats to 5-11.... nope... +0
- Paul Brown - dominated a weak AAFC from the opening gun going 12-2 and built a monster by the time we enterred the NFL 4 years later... +1
- Ron Rivera, 2-14 to 6-10... meh... +0
- Mike Holmgren, GB 4-12 to 9-7; SEA 8-8 to 9-7... +0.5
- Jason Garrett, 5-3 (split w/ fired Wade Phillips) to 8-8... not feeling generous... +0
- Rex Ryan, NYJ 9-7 to 9-7; BUF 9-7 to 8-8... +0... and since it's Wreckin' Rex you're lucky I don't dock 2 points
- Gray Kubiak, HOU 2-14 to 6-10; DNV 12-4 to 12-4... HOU is tempting, but... +0
- Brian Billick, 6-10 to 8-8... NO... (see Rex Ryan) +0
- Wade Phillips, way too much work... but has failed in all three of his full time gigs... +0
- John Harbaugh, 5-11 to 11-5... easy +1
So I'll give you 4 of 14...
Rebuttle?
Thanks... But remember tia was talking one year... so let's audit that list:
1.Don Shula - in BLT inherited a 7-7 team from Weeb and went 8-6; in MIA took a 3-10 to 10-4... so that's +0.5
Improved the win rate year 1 +1
2.Vince Lombardi - took a 1-10 GB to 7-5... check; took 5-9 WSH to 7-5-2... so there's your other half... +0.5
Improved the win rate year 1 +6
3.George Halas - 10-1-2 in 1920 with the Staleys (I love that name); in 1932 took a 7-1-6 (yes, 6 ties!) Champion Bears team to 10-2-1; in 1946 took 3-7 to 8-2-1 but team was restocked with returning GIs; 1958 followed 5-7 with 8-4... Check... +1
I should have removed him from the list as these years are fairly irrelevent
4.Joe Gibbs - took 6-10 WSH to 8-8 in 1981; returned in a 5-11 team in 1986 and went 6-10... so no... +0
Improved the win rate year 1 +2
5.Bill B - took the 3-13 Browns to 6-10; took the 8-8 Pats to 5-11.... nope... +0
Improved the win rate year 1 +3
6.Paul Brown - dominated a weak AAFC from the opening gun going 12-2 and built a monster by the time we enterred the NFL 4 years later... +1
Probably should not be on this list
7.Ron Rivera, 2-14 to 6-10... meh... +0
Improved the win rate year 1 +4
8.Mike Holmgren, GB 4-12 to 9-7; SEA 8-8 to 9-7... +0.5
Improved the win rate year 1 +5
9.Jason Garrett, 5-3 (split w/ fired Wade Phillips) to 8-8... not feeling generous... +0
Improved the win rate year 1. the cowboys finished 6-10 the year before +2
10.Rex Ryan, NYJ 9-7 to 9-7; BUF 9-7 to 8-8... +0... and since it's Wreckin' Rex you're lucky I don't dock 2 points
I've taken him off this list
11.Gray Kubiak, HOU 2-14 to 6-10; DNV 12-4 to 12-4... HOU is tempting, but... +0
Improved the win rate year 1 +4
12.Brian Billick, 6-10 to 8-8... NO... (see Rex Ryan) +0
Improved the win rate year 1+2
13.Wade Phillips, way too much work... but has failed in all three of his full time gigs... +0
Improved the win rate year 1 +1
14.John Harbaugh, 5-11 to 11-5... easy +1
Improved the win rate year 1 +6
So I'll give you 4 of 14...
Rebuttle?
+36 combined wins for these coaches. or its more wins than the browns have had combined in 8 years if you want to look at it that way lol
Firstly i took Rex Ryan out in an edit because he failed to meet the .500 requirement
Secondly i looked at the initial head coaching job of each coach as the metric as more than a few of these coaches have/had been in the league for many years.
Thirdly your using opinions to belittle facts... seriously your biggest arguement is...meh... the FACT is that each of these coaches improved the team they coached and are some of the best coaches the Nfl has seen
I'm surprised tour i expected more of a counter argument than "I dont agree with your facts because i don't FEEL like it supports my argument"
I'm disappointed your not trying to generate a list of coaches that did poorly in comparison to years prior only to go on to become great coaches in the league.
Coaches that do poorly initially Historically will NOT go on to become great coaches. But that's not saying that it cant happen. Just that it is less likely to happen.
-
Half those guys would have been run outta here on a rail by now. Jason Garrett? Ha. Guy's got a top 3 offense from a talent standpoint and couldn't throw up 2 TDs/a game last year. Ron Rivera? Look at some of the seasons he's had.
Caine is addicted to firing coaches. He's built that monster, and if he doesn't feed it, it'll bite him. Gotta scratch the itch.
-
your right i do love firing coaches it really makes me happy to fire coach after coach, except for Pettine and Eric M and Chud. But i wanted Horton fired twice lol and Jim O'Neil once
-
you seem to have this rhetoric only mentioning the successful coaches who struggled early rather than VAST majority of coaches who struggled early never to find success in their nfl coaching career. How ABOUT the successful coaches who flourished early and maintained a good record throughout their career.
Your really showing your bias here tiamat. Any chance for an original objective thought today?you seem to have this rhetoric only mentioning the successful coaches who struggled early rather than VAST majority of coaches who struggled early never to find success in their nfl coaching career. How ABOUT the successful coaches who flourished early and maintained a good record throughout their career.
Your really showing your bias here tiamat. Any chance for an original objective thought today?
No bias. I know stupidity when I see it. I'm not saying Hue is the next legend, but your comment was that you absolutely know if a coach is bad or not year one. I've highlighted that you're not even close to correct.
There are also a ton of medicore coaches that have had reasonable starts. We just fired the last one for that very same reason.
I'd also be willing to argue coaches that came in year one and had success inherited talent. Hue to date, has not.
Bottom line. Firing anyone after one year when you've all but gutted the roster is Retard.
-
-
it's a poor workman who blames his tools
it's a poor workman who blames his tools
If only football players we're inanimate, metal based objects.
-
your right i do love firing coaches it really makes me happy to fire coach after coach, except for Pettine and Eric M and Chud. But i wanted Horton fired twice lol and Jim O'Neil once
your right i do love firing coaches it really makes me happy to fire coach after coach, except for Pettine and Eric M and Chud. But i wanted Horton fired twice lol and Jim O'Neil once
Yes, clearly it does. Outside of idiots like Ghoolie, you were the first to bring it up, and you haven't let it go.
-
I will fully and freely admit i wanted horton to be fired the same day he was hired. He's always been terrible
-
And Hue shortly thereafter. Cool.
-
I dont condone firing Hue.....BUT.....I dont see any reason we cant switch/add/change some coaches and or fo people......
IF its needed....
It's what I fought for last year....and will again this year.......tweak and adjust.....with no melt downs or resets....
We do it constantly with players.....so, why not with staff?.....
Instead of firing someone......Id suggest we add a "football" guy to the front office.....
In reality, they never named a GM last year and created a group think thing, with Shashi being the leader......my vote goes to adding a "real" GM with football experience and knowledge......
-
I just sat down and read this from the beginning.
Jesus Christ some of you are stupid.
-
says a youngin with all the time in the world hoping to see change during his lifetime in a constant suck team.
remember this when ur my age and the browns still haven't won shitβ¦β¦β¦then you'll be the old blowhard, with a dope flying car.
there's the 'let's stay the course' people and then there's the 'let's make a change' people. and the people have spoken.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better π
Register Login