Draft Talk
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PFF has us taking Mason Rudolph from Oklahoma State with our second pick in the first. First pick? Allen, Alabama.. can't disagree.
My problem with Rudolph? We already took a guy from oklahoma state with our second pick in the first. Yep, Brandon Weeden. And I think we know how that turned out. Also, Rudolph hasn't declared yet for the draft, so there's that little detail.
We also took justin gilbert in the first from other OSU. But that shouldn't be a reason to not take someone from there in future.
We also took justin gilbert in the first from other OSU. But that shouldn't be a reason to not take someone from there in future.
Joking.. it'd be the same as saying don't take another QB from TA&M because of the stench of Football in that place..
If we can wait till 2018, there's always Rosen [uCLA] and Falk [WashSt] and Rudolph if he doesn't come out and Browning [Washington] I left out Mayfield [OK] because he's.. not good.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
Well this just got interesting. Local news in NC says, HC Larry Fedora was contacted today by LSU for the HC position. FSU Jimbo Fisher also been rumored to LSU. Was hoping Mitch would pull a A.Luck & play his senior year to prove his lack of games played was no fluke. But if Larry Fedora goes, why risk being thrown a new offensive system when your already a top 10 pick? Could create a great scouting fact for 2018 draft also..Tick Tock
Ugh. I will be infuriated if Fedora goes to LSU. He's from college Station. He needs to be called home.
Btw, Ag69, you off the train yet?
Ugh. I will be infuriated if Fedora goes to LSU. He's from college Station. He needs to be called home.
Btw, Ag69, you off the train yet?
Bear Bryant once said, ""I left Texas A&M because my school called me. Mama called,
and when Mama calls, then you just have to come running."
If I heard Fedora say that, I would not be heartbroken.
But the loss to Ole Miss should not have surprised anyone if you were aware they were going to take the redshirt off the #1 HS QB in the land from 2015. A no brainer. I as surprised we were still leading until the end. With a forth string QB and a one legged man still gutting out the season, it's like playing with one hand tied behind your back. Not a good reason to fire.
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We also took justin gilbert in the first from other OSU. But that shouldn't be a reason to not take someone from there in future.
Joking.. it'd be the same as saying don't take another QB from TA&M because of the stench of Football in that place..
If we can wait till 2018, there's always Rosen [uCLA] and Falk [WashSt] and Rudolph if he doesn't come out and Browning [Washington] I left out Mayfield [OK] because he's.. not good.
Joking.. it'd be the same as saying don't take another QB from TA&M because of the stench of Football in that place..
If we can wait till 2018, there's always Rosen [uCLA] and Falk [WashSt] and Rudolph if he doesn't come out and Browning [Washington] I left out Mayfield [OK] because he's.. not good.
Fair enough - you've seen that kind of reasoning around here plenty though, hard to tell when it's serious or not!
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Winning is the ultimate metric, but if Sashi is half the executive I think he is, then there are other, short-term metrics that he is looking to short-term for any mid-course corrections to the process... and they were in the "plan" from the get-go. They are core to the process improvement model.
This is what excites me. This stuff right here.
How do you quantify success? Well, duh...wins. But what's the difference between a SB Bucs team and the current Patriots dynasty? Both have rings, so both should be a role model for our rebuild, right?
Hell no.
What this FO wants is to find what similarities there are between dynastic franchises, not between one-off successes. The amount of times I've heard people point to the Bucs and Ravens as role model examples on this board is ridiculous - we shouldn't want to be like them. We don't want to fall ass-backwards into a ring, we want to put the franchise on a permanent course of success.
In the long-term, wins are the obvious metric. But in the short term, initial wins mean nothing. As a matter of fact, they are detrimental to the success of the long-term plan. Sorry, but it's true.
Short term metrics for growth are the unsexy numbers.
From a coaching perspective - Turnover ratio, blitz success percentage, YPA/C, target distribution, "plus" play percentage, PA completion percentage, etc.
From a managerial standpoint - positional salary distribution, talent acquisition maximization (this is one of my biggest sticking points), cap hit per snap, etc.
These metrics are rarely talked about, but can be the strongest indicators for growth in a winless season.
Further, these metrics for growth have to be viewed more along the lines of relative position than anything else, because hard-set numbers fluctuate in the NFL on a yearly basis.
This is the kind of shit that our FO is looking at. It's a damn sight more useful to us in building back a legitimately strong franchise than a handful of wins in a down year.
This is what excites me. This stuff right here.year.
I'm secure enough in my manhood to accept this comment...
OK but isn't all that still dependent on success with your picks? That's still what it all boils down to. I hope they're right but they gotta hit on some picks
It is dependent on hitting picks, of course. And this FO hasn't missed on a pick yet, considering as we are only 10 weeks into their rookie season and making a judgment one way or the other is extremely premature.
Even when I was crowning Wentz, there was always the caveat that it's still too early to tell.
The difference between draft bust and draft star is hardly black and white. Unless you think Dak Prescott would have us at 9-1 right now.
Only thing I'd add is this rookie class is their first data in to their feedback loop.
The metrics I was thinking of go even more micro than the turnover ratio, etc. Not that those are excluded, but also go deeper... thru groupings like OL, DBs, etc. all the way to individual player performance vs. early and probably mid-season projections.
As for Dak? Might have 2 wins for us, but he'd still have been on the bench early watching RG and McC go down... just as Kess was.
Just think if Romo hadn't had his spine scrunched... DAL still would not know what it had...
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Please, dak is playing behind the best o line in football. They have a left tackle that made ogbah look like a kid next to. Dak would be on IR here, how do so few of u really understand that? Even the great tom brady might have gotten only one win so far. Cause he wouldnt have played all 10 games either.
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Ugh. I will be infuriated if Fedora goes to LSU. He's from college Station. He needs to be called home.
Btw, Ag69, you off the train yet?
Bear Bryant once said, ""I left Texas A&M because my school called me. Mama called,
and when Mama calls, then you just have to come running."
If I heard Fedora say that, I would not be heartbroken.
But the loss to Ole Miss should not have surprised anyone if you were aware they were going to take the redshirt off the #1 HS QB in the land from 2015. A no brainer. I as surprised we were still leading until the end. With a forth string QB and a one legged man still gutting out the season, it's like playing with one hand tied behind your back. Not a good reason to fire.
Bear Bryant once said, ""I left Texas A&M because my school called me. Mama called,
and when Mama calls, then you just have to come running."
If I heard Fedora say that, I would not be heartbroken.
But the loss to Ole Miss should not have surprised anyone if you were aware they were going to take the redshirt off the #1 HS QB in the land from 2015. A no brainer. I as surprised we were still leading until the end. With a forth string QB and a one legged man still gutting out the season, it's like playing with one hand tied behind your back. Not a good reason to fire.
That quote was in mind when I wrote that.
Come on man. Chad Kelly is the best QB in the SEC. They were still 4-5 with him. We had two 5 star QBs last year and neither made us all-world overnight. Furthermore, Patterson couldn't hit the broad side of a barn in the first half. The game should have been over at halftime.
Everyone has injuries at this point. That's, frankly, a pathetic excuse. And what depth chart do you see Hubenak as the 4th string QB on? He is the 2. Don't exaggerate. We were both on our second QB, and we were supposedly a top 10 team. But as has become the norm under Sumlin, we were a fraud. And it will only go downhill from here because the recruiting is some of the worst in the west.
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Allen is a machine. USC's OL was vaunted as the best in the country last week. Herbstreit singled out a play (one of many) where the front 4 collapsed the pocket in under 2 seconds with bull rushes across the board, with Allen leading the way. It's a work of art.
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Right now allen is my choice for pass rusher if thats what we go for with the top pick. Then maybe we can finally say good bye to the 3-4 except as sub package
Right now allen is my choice for pass rusher if thats what we go for with the top pick. Then maybe we can finally say good bye to the 3-4 except as sub package
You like 295ers in the 4-3? The only move Allen has that would work on the edge is the bull rush. And that is unlikely to work in the NFL in 1.5 seconds like it does for him now. If you made him your DE in a 4-3, we'd be sitting here in a year continuing to lament the fact that all our DEs and LBs are "specialty guys." If you're going with J. Allen, stick him at DE, and figure out once and for all whether Ogbah is an OLB or DE. Stop switching him.
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I don't think he is. Maybe a bit better leader, maybe a bit more of a gamer. But overall, no, not really.
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Allen is your 3/4 tech and can play some 5 in certain looks.
Calling him a DE in a similar mold of Garrett would be schematically and athletically incorrect.
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If you want an edge rusher not named Garrett, then you go with Bama's Tim Williams before you went with Allen. Or Maybe Lawson from Auburn.
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Allen is your 3/4 tech and can play some 5 in certain looks.
Calling him a DE in a similar mold of Garrett would be schematically and athletically incorrect.
Allen is your 3/4 tech and can play some 5 in certain looks.
Calling him a DE in a similar mold of Garrett would be schematically and athletically incorrect.
Tape I just watched of allen he looks damn good coming in from the 9. Yeah the 5 would seem like a decent fit too but the 3? He'd have to get up over 300 for that. I like the idea of an athletic 285-290 lb DE
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Right now allen is my choice for pass rusher if thats what we go for with the top pick. Then maybe we can finally say good bye to the 3-4 except as sub package
You like 295ers in the 4-3? The only move Allen has that would work on the edge is the bull rush. And that is unlikely to work in the NFL in 1.5 seconds like it does for him now. If you made him your DE in a 4-3, we'd be sitting here in a year continuing to lament the fact that all our DEs and LBs are "specialty guys." If you're going with J. Allen, stick him at DE, and figure out once and for all whether Ogbah is an OLB or DE. Stop switching him.
You like 295ers in the 4-3? The only move Allen has that would work on the edge is the bull rush. And that is unlikely to work in the NFL in 1.5 seconds like it does for him now. If you made him your DE in a 4-3, we'd be sitting here in a year continuing to lament the fact that all our DEs and LBs are "specialty guys." If you're going with J. Allen, stick him at DE, and figure out once and for all whether Ogbah is an OLB or DE. Stop switching him.
I can see Allen inside a 4-3 paired with Danny shading the Center's shoulder... kind of a thunder and lightening interior. He could be Aaron Donald-ish inside. But agree that 3-4 DE is his best position.
Without seeing less behind that o line and having zeke behind him I couldn't be 100%. Yes eye test certainly looks better but again, after a couple free shots from primary front line rushers does dak look the same?
Same? No, but he has escapability that Kess doesn't have.... and he could add a true, read-option edge threat that Hogan only pulled off in one, surprise appearance. I thought Dak could be another Russell Wilson and that's what I see.
And Dak is built to take those free shots better than any Browns QB since... Otto? Or at least since Quinn the muscle-puppy...
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Allen is your 3/4 tech and can play some 5 in certain looks.
Calling him a DE in a similar mold of Garrett would be schematically and athletically incorrect.
Tape I just watched of allen he looks damn good coming in from the 9. Yeah the 5 would seem like a decent fit too but the 3? He'd have to get up over 300 for that. I like the idea of an athletic 285-290 lb DE
decent fit too but the 3? He'd have to get up over 300 for that. I like the idea of an athletic 285-290 lb DE
I guess you've never watched Aaron Donald.
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Aaron Donald btw. Now THAT is a baller.
Man...if only.
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Aaron Donald btw. Now THAT is a baller.
Man...if only.
Aaron Donald btw. Now THAT is a baller.
Man...if only.
Gilbert instead
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Ok, he is no Aaron Donald.
Right. But the first step quickness and violent hands are very similar. It's extremely hard to account for interior pressure on a QB.
Go look at some of the best Dlines in the NFL and you'll find interior players with high pressure counts.
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Similar is the operative word...
There has always been a place in the NFL for the slightly undersized, quick, strong DT... especially lined up next to an anchorsaurus.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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