HOF news. Clay Mathews a Semi-Finalist
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Clay really needs to be in there... but damn, that's a strong group and beware the First-Balloters.
LT is in for sure. Taylor and Dawkins very likely in... that's 3 slots all on the D-side.
I would not be surprised to see Ward get in... 1000 receptions w/ over 12,000 yards.
So that could be 3 or 4 slots filled. Fortunately there are only a couple HTF-is-he-not-in-the-HOF-yet names on the list.
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In terms of players, if you went strictly by the Pro Football Reference Career Production Average, here would be the Top Candidates in order:
1. Terrell Owens
2. Jason Taylor
3. LaDanian Tomlinson
4. Kevin Mawae
5. Alan Faneca
6. Brian Dawkins
7. Mike Kenn
8. Clay Matthews
9. Isaac Bruce
10. Edgerrin James
11. Hines Ward
12. John Lynch
13. Roger Craig
14. Karl Mecklenberg
15. Ty Law
16. Kurt Warner
Kurt Warner needs in.In terms of players, if you went strictly by the Pro Football Reference Career Production Average, here would be the Top Candidates in order:
1. Terrell Owens
2. Jason Taylor
3. LaDanian Tomlinson
4. Kevin Mawae
5. Alan Faneca
6. Brian Dawkins
7. Mike Kenn
8. Clay Matthews
9. Isaac Bruce
10. Edgerrin James
11. Hines Ward
12. John Lynch
13. Roger Craig
14. Karl Mecklenberg
15. Ty Law
16. Kurt Warner
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Tomlinson
Owens
Warner
Dawkins
Kenn
Zombo
--I assume Coryell is a veterans committee pick? If so, him too.
Zombo said:
Tomlinson
Owens
Warner
Dawkins
Kenn
Zombo
--I assume Coryell is a veterans committee pick? If so, him too.
Actually, he is not. Only players get in with the veterans choices. He must compete with others.
And what about Jimmy Johnson? Should any coach that wins 2 titles get in?
Tom Coughlin
George Seifert
Tom Flores
Mike Shanahan
All get in, no?
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Kurt Warner needs in.In terms of players, if you went strictly by the Pro Football Reference Career Production Average, here would be the Top Candidates in order:
1. Terrell Owens
2. Jason Taylor
3. LaDanian Tomlinson
4. Kevin Mawae
5. Alan Faneca
6. Brian Dawkins
7. Mike Kenn
8. Clay Matthews
9. Isaac Bruce
10. Edgerrin James
11. Hines Ward
12. John Lynch
13. Roger Craig
14. Karl Mecklenberg
15. Ty Law
16. Kurt Warner
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Just FYI, here is the list of players who are not in the above semi-finalist list, yet who are among the Top 50 "Producers" in NFL history per that PFR Career Average stat, with their place on the list:
1. Peyton Manning
t7. Tom Brady
t7. Ray Lewis
11. Drew Brees
20. Julius Peppers
28. Jim Marshall
t32. Randy Moss
t32. Ken Anderson
42. Charles Woodson
45. Reggie Wayne
49. Jeff Saturday
50. Zach Thomas
Blue: active
Green: retired but not yet HOF eligible (less than 5 years)
Red: retired and eligible....but not yet inducted.
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I hope so. He's a good guy.I think he makes it. No other QBs in the semifinalist list.
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I think he makes it. No other QBs in the semifinalist list.
Is that some kind of rule? A QB in every class?
Kurt's a great, cinderella story and caught proverbial lightening in a bottle with "The Greatest Show on Turf". But his career numbers are marginal for the HOF... 36th in career yards... T-35th in TDs... but is 10th in Rating.
And then there's the SB... 3 appearances... went 1-2...
Worthy candidate to be sure... worthy inductee? Perhaps, but not a slam dunk.
Should he get in, then is Phil Simms next up? Similar career numbers albeit over more starts. Won 2 SBs and holds the record for completion percentage in a SB.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The list:
The following is the complete list of 2017 Modern-Era semifinalists, including their positions, years of participation and teams. Also listed are the number of times and years that each individual has been named a semifinalist since this reduction vote was added to the Selection Committee Bylaws in 2004.
- Morten Andersen, K – 1982-1994 New Orleans Saints, 1995-2000, 2006-07 Atlanta Falcons, 2001 New York Giants, 2002-03 Kansas City Chiefs, 2004 Minnesota Vikings | (Times as a Semifinalist: 5 – 2013-17)
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Steve Atwater, S – 1989-1998 Denver Broncos, 1999 New York Jets | (Times as a Semifinalist: 6 – 2012-17)
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Tony Boselli, T – 1995-2001 Jacksonville Jaguars, 2002 Houston Texans (injured reserve) | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2016-17)
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Isaac Bruce, WR – 1994-2007 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 2008-09 San Francisco 49ers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2015-17)
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Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 9 – 2005, 2010-17)
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Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings | (Times as a Semifinalist: 9 – 2009-17)
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Terrell Davis, RB – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos | (Times as a Semifinalist: 11 – 2007-2017)
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Brian Dawkins, S, 1996-2008 Philadelphia Eagles, 2009-2011 Denver Broncos | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2017)
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Alan Faneca, G – 1998-2007 Pittsburgh Steelers, 2008-09 New York Jets, 2010 Arizona Cardinals | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2016-17)
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Chris Hinton, G/T – 1983-89 Baltimore/Indianapolis Colts, 1990-93 Atlanta Falcons, 1994-95 Minnesota Vikings | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2017)
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Torry Holt, WR – 1999-2008 St. Louis Rams, 2009 Jacksonville Jaguars | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2015-17)
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Joe Jacoby, T – 1981-1993 Washington Redskins | (Times as a Semifinalist: 7 – 2005, 2008, 2013-17)
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Edgerrin James, RB – 1999-2005 Indianapolis Colts, 2006-08 Arizona Cardinals, 2009 Seattle Seahawks | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2015-17)
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Jimmy Johnson, Coach – 1989-1993 Dallas Cowboys, 1996-99 Miami Dolphins | (Times as a Semifinalist: 4 – 2014-17)
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Mike Kenn, T – 1978-1994 Atlanta Falcons | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2015-17)
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Ty Law, CB – 1995-2004 New England Patriots, 2005, 2008 New York Jets, 2006-07 Kansas City Chiefs, 2009 Denver Broncos | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2015-17)
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John Lynch, FS – 1993-2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 2004-07 Denver Broncos | (Times as a Semifinalist: 5 – 2013-17)
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Clay Matthews, LB – 1978-1993 Cleveland Browns, 1994-96 Atlanta Falcons | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2012, 2017)
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Kevin Mawae, C/G – 1994-97 Seattle Seahawks, 1998-2005 New York Jets, 2006-09 Tennessee Titans | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2015-17)
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Karl Mecklenburg, LB – 1983-1994 Denver Broncos | (Times as a Semifinalist: 6 – 2012-17)
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Terrell Owens, WR – 1996-2003 San Francisco 49ers, 2004-05 Philadelphia Eagles, 2006-08 Dallas Cowboys, 2009 Buffalo Bills, 2010 Cincinnati Bengals |(Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2016-17)
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Jason Taylor, DE – 1997-2007, 2009, 2011 Miami Dolphins, 2008 Washington Redskins, 2010 New York Jets | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2017)
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LaDainian Tomlinson, RB – 2001-09 San Diego Chargers, 2010-11 New York Jets | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2017)
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Hines Ward, WR – 1998-2011 Pittsburgh Steelers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2017)
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Kurt Warner, QB – 1998-2003 St. Louis Rams, 2004 New York Giants, 2005-09 Arizona Cardinals | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2015-17)
- Darren Woodson, S – 1992-2003 Dallas Cowboys | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2015, 2017)
To be considered for election to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, a nominated player or coach must not have participated as an active player or coach for five consecutive seasons.
PFR rating among all the following players:
- Morten Andersen, K – 1982-1994 New Orleans Saints, 1995-2000, 2006-07 Atlanta Falcons, 2001 New York Giants, 2002-03 Kansas City Chiefs, 2004 Minnesota Vikings | (Times as a Semifinalist: 5 – 2013-17)
- NOT in Top 250
- Steve Atwater, S – 1989-1998 Denver Broncos, 1999 New York Jets | (Times as a Semifinalist: 6 – 2012-17)
- NOT in Top 250
- Tony Boselli, T – 1995-2001 Jacksonville Jaguars, 2002 Houston Texans (injured reserve) | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2016-17)
- NOT in Top 250
- Isaac Bruce, WR – 1994-2007 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 2008-09 San Francisco 49ers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2015-17)
- Tied for #94
- Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 9 – 2005, 2010-17)
- N/A Coach
- Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings | (Times as a Semifinalist: 9 – 2009-17)
- Tied for #243
- Terrell Davis, RB – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos | (Times as a Semifinalist: 11 – 2007-2017)
- NOT in Top 250
- Brian Dawkins, S, 1996-2008 Philadelphia Eagles, 2009-2011 Denver Broncos | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2017)
- #79
- Alan Faneca, G – 1998-2007 Pittsburgh Steelers, 2008-09 New York Jets, 2010 Arizona Cardinals | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2016-17)
- #63
- Chris Hinton, G/T – 1983-89 Baltimore/Indianapolis Colts, 1990-93 Atlanta Falcons, 1994-95 Minnesota Vikings | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2017)
- NOT in Top 250
- Torry Holt, WR – 1999-2008 St. Louis Rams, 2009 Jacksonville Jaguars | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2015-17)
- NOT in Top 250
- Joe Jacoby, T – 1981-1993 Washington Redskins | (Times as a Semifinalist: 7 – 2005, 2008, 2013-17)
- NOT in Top 250
- Edgerrin James, RB – 1999-2005 Indianapolis Colts, 2006-08 Arizona Cardinals, 2009 Seattle Seahawks | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2015-17)
- #136
- Jimmy Johnson, Coach – 1989-1993 Dallas Cowboys, 1996-99 Miami Dolphins | (Times as a Semifinalist: 4 – 2014-17)
- N/A Coach
- Mike Kenn, T – 1978-1994 Atlanta Falcons | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2015-17)
- #88
- Ty Law, CB – 1995-2004 New England Patriots, 2005, 2008 New York Jets, 2006-07 Kansas City Chiefs, 2009 Denver Broncos | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2015-17)
- Tied for #243
- John Lynch, FS – 1993-2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 2004-07 Denver Broncos | (Times as a Semifinalist: 5 – 2013-17)
- Tied for #206
- Clay Matthews, LB – 1978-1993 Cleveland Browns, 1994-96 Atlanta Falcons | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2012, 2017)
- Tied for #94
- Kevin Mawae, C/G – 1994-97 Seattle Seahawks, 1998-2005 New York Jets, 2006-09 Tennessee Titans | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2015-17)
- #47
- Karl Mecklenburg, LB – 1983-1994 Denver Broncos | (Times as a Semifinalist: 6 – 2012-17)
- Tied for #243
- Terrell Owens, WR – 1996-2003 San Francisco 49ers, 2004-05 Philadelphia Eagles, 2006-08 Dallas Cowboys, 2009 Buffalo Bills, 2010 Cincinnati Bengals |(Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2016-17)
- #24
- Jason Taylor, DE – 1997-2007, 2009, 2011 Miami Dolphins, 2008 Washington Redskins, 2010 New York Jets | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2017)
- #37
- LaDainian Tomlinson, RB – 2001-09 San Diego Chargers, 2010-11 New York Jets | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2017)
- 42#
- Hines Ward, WR – 1998-2011 Pittsburgh Steelers | (Times as a Semifinalist: 1 – 2017)
- Tied for #206
- Kurt Warner, QB – 1998-2003 St. Louis Rams, 2004 New York Giants, 2005-09 Arizona Cardinals | (Times as a Semifinalist: 3 – 2015-17)
- Tied for #243
- Darren Woodson, S – 1992-2003 Dallas Cowboys | (Times as a Semifinalist: 2 – 2015, 2017)
To be considered for election to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, a nominated player or coach must not have participated as an active player or coach for five consecutive seasons.
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I think he makes it. No other QBs in the semifinalist list.
Is that some kind of rule? A QB in every class?
Kurt's a great, cinderella story and caught proverbial lightening in a bottle with "The Greatest Show on Turf". But his career numbers are marginal for the HOF... 36th in career yards... T-35th in TDs... but is 10th in Rating.
And then there's the SB... 3 appearances... went 1-2...
Worthy candidate to be sure... worthy inductee? Perhaps, but not a slam dunk.
Should he get in, then is Phil Simms next up? Similar career numbers albeit over more starts. Won 2 SBs and holds the record for completion percentage in a SB.
Is that some kind of rule? A QB in every class?
No, but QBs are a special case, don't you agree?
Kurt's a great, cinderella story and caught proverbial lightening in a bottle with "The Greatest Show on Turf". But his career numbers are marginal for the HOF... 36th in career yards... T-35th in TDs... but is 10th in Rating.
And then there's the SB... 3 appearances... went 1-2...
Here is the list of QBs who started in 3 or more Super Bowls:
Starts Player Record Team(s), Super Bowls % Ref, 6 Tom Brady 4–2 New England Patriots - XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX, XLII, XLVI, XLIX 67% [1] 5 John Elway 2–3 Denver Broncos - XXI, XXII, XXIV, XXXII, XXXIII 40% [2] 4 Terry Bradshaw 4–0 Pittsburgh Steelers - IX, X, XIII, XIV 100% [3]Joe Montana 4–0 San Francisco 49ers - XVI, XIX, XXIII, XXIV 100% [4]Roger Staubach 2–2 Dallas Cowboys - VI, X, XII, XIII 50% [5]Peyton Manning* 2-2 Indianapolis Colts - XLI, XLIV; Denver Broncos - XLVIII, 50 50% [6]Jim Kelly 0–4 Buffalo Bills - XXV, XXVI, XXVII, XXVIII 0% [7] 3 Troy Aikman 3–0 Dallas Cowboys - XXVII, XXVIII, XXX 100% [8]Bob Griese 2–1 Miami Dolphins - VI, VII, VIII 67% [9]Ben Roethlisberger 2–1 Pittsburgh Steelers - XL, XLIII, XLV 67% [10]Kurt Warner 1–2 St. Louis Rams - XXXIV, XXXVI; Arizona Cardinals - XLIII 33% [11]Fran Tarkenton 0–3 Minnesota Vikings - VIII, IX, XI 0% [12]How many of these will NOT make the HOF? Note: 8 of them have already been inducted....Two others are Brady and Manning...and then there is BR and Warner. Who else would not make it?
Worthy candidate to be sure... worthy inductee? Perhaps, but not a slam dunk.
Should he get in, then is Phil Simms next up? Similar career numbers albeit over more starts. Won 2 SBs and holds the record for completion percentage in a SB.
Phil Simms only won 1 Super Bowl. And only started in one. Jeff Hostetler played that game...and that entire offseason for Giants.
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I'm happy with anyone other than Hines Ward. That guy should not be anywhere near the HoF.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
Zombo said:
Tomlinson
Owens
Warner
Dawkins
Kenn
Zombo
--I assume Coryell is a veterans committee pick? If so, him too.
Actually, he is not. Only players get in with the veterans choices. He must compete with others.
And what about Jimmy Johnson? Should any coach that wins 2 titles get in?
Tom Coughlin
George Seifert
Tom Flores
Mike Shanahan
All get in, no?
Actually, he is not. Only players get in with the veterans choices. He must compete with others.
And what about Jimmy Johnson? Should any coach that wins 2 titles get in?
Tom Coughlin
George Seifert
Tom Flores
Mike Shanahan
All get in, no?
Johnson eventually.
Coughlin and Shanny probably.
Zombo
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I'm happy with anyone other than Hines Ward. That guy should not be anywhere near the HoF.
I'm happy with anyone other than Hines Ward. That guy should not be anywhere near the HoF.
He will have to wait a few years at least. They are making all WRs wait it seems. Even T.O. was not put in on his first chance.
T.O., Bruce, could both get in first.
When Moss becomes eligible and if he is not in, he may have to wait some more. So, it could be a while.
Then there is Calvin Johnson who has retired.
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Phil Simms only won 1 Super Bowl. And only started in one. Jeff Hostetler played that game...and that entire offseason for Giants.
Ah... two rings, but was sidelined by injury for one after leading NYG to 11-3 record and leading league in QB Rating.
Fact remains he won as many as Kurt and was a perfect 1-0.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Phil Simms only won 1 Super Bowl. And only started in one. Jeff Hostetler played that game...and that entire offseason for Giants.
Ah... two rings, but was sidelined by injury for one after leading NYG to 11-3 record and leading league in QB Rating.
Fact remains he won as many as Kurt and was a perfect 1-0.
Ah... two rings, but was sidelined by injury for one after leading NYG to 11-3 record and leading league in QB Rating.
Fact remains he won as many as Kurt and was a perfect 1-0.
I, and all others will take Warner.
And even objectively.....Warner had a better career production average than Simms.....if you think that stat has any validity. I think it has some. (not perfect, but pretty good)
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Ah... two rings, but was sidelined by injury for one after leading NYG to 11-3 record and leading league in QB Rating.
Fact remains he won as many as Kurt and was a perfect 1-0.
I, and all others will take Warner.
And even objectively.....Warner had a better career production average than Simms.....if you think that stat has any validity. I think it has some. (not perfect, but pretty good)
I, and all others will take Warner.
And even objectively.....Warner had a better career production average than Simms.....if you think that stat has any validity. I think it has some. (not perfect, but pretty good)
Point of order... never said Simms before Warner... said if Warner, then he makes case for Simms.
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I really hope Clay Mathews gets in.. His longevity speaks for itself.. His conditioning. His ability to adapt in any defensive scheme was enormously huge. He always seemed to be around the ball. His positioning and technique was pretty exceptional.. If he lacked one asset.. I'd say he didn't have the speed of an LT or Ray Ray.. Or Butkus..
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