Draft Talk
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Allen is currently listed at 265. That aint 5 tech material. Not in my defense. My 5 looks like justin smith. Would love to see 4 man fronts with allen as the strong side DE and maybe orchard on the other side as the speed rush. Heck we couldveven use collins as the weak side rusher
Allen is way bigger than 265. Maybe 290.
I would be shocked if Allen is 290.
Allen gets listed at 293lbs, btw.
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Why bother when they will take Trubisky #1?
Because they won't?
Show me the list of those who said last year, "Can't wait for Trubisky to come out!"
I think it was TCPO or tia that first cautioned us to beware the fast rising QB in the draft, e.g., Tannehill, Bortles, Locker. They're sucked up by the QB void as much as they're rocketed by ability. Mitch looks primed to be the 2017 addition to the list.
Contrast the risers with those that started at least their final year atop the heap and stuck there: Winston, Mariotta, Luck, even RG3, Newton...
But just a cautionary note... as I said, I still have work to do.
Allen is way bigger than 265. Maybe 290.
Easily... just have to look at him to see that his Wikipedia weight is off by a mile.
And, yes, tia... meant Shelton at NT. And Bryant's torn pec is not the most career debilitating injury... I feel good about his return to form.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
This pretty much confirms what I thought about Pasztor.
Gil Brandt tweeted. . .
Most total pressures + sacks allowed (through Wk 11)
Barksdale 34.5
C.Clark 34.5
Pasztor 33.5
Castonzo 31
Reiff 31
Ogbuehi 30.5
Free 30
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
This pretty much confirms what I thought about Pasztor.
Gil Brandt tweeted. . .
Most total pressures + sacks allowed (through Wk 11)
Barksdale 34.5
C.Clark 34.5
Pasztor 33.5
Castonzo 31
Reiff 31
Ogbuehi 30.5
Free 30
This pretty much confirms what I thought about Pasztor.
Gil Brandt tweeted. . .
Most total pressures + sacks allowed (through Wk 11)
Barksdale 34.5
C.Clark 34.5
Pasztor 33.5
Castonzo 31
Reiff 31
Ogbuehi 30.5
Free 30
But PFF said Pasztor is good.
Haha
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Why bother when they will take Trubisky #1?
Because they won't?
Show me the list of those who said last year, "Can't wait for Trubisky to come out!"
I think it was TCPO or tia that first cautioned us to beware the fast rising QB in the draft, e.g., Tannehill, Bortles, Locker. They're sucked up by the QB void as much as they're rocketed by ability. Mitch looks primed to be the 2017 addition to the list.
Contrast the risers with those that started at least their final year atop the heap and stuck there: Winston, Mariotta, Luck, even RG3, Newton...
But just a cautionary note... as I said, I still have work to do.
Allen is way bigger than 265. Maybe 290.
Easily... just have to look at him to see that his Wikipedia weight is off by a mile.
And, yes, tia... meant Shelton at NT. And Bryant's torn pec is not the most career debilitating injury... I feel good about his return to form.
Because they won't?
Show me the list of those who said last year, "Can't wait for Trubisky to come out!"
I think it was TCPO or tia that first cautioned us to beware the fast rising QB in the draft, e.g., Tannehill, Bortles, Locker. They're sucked up by the QB void as much as they're rocketed by ability. Mitch looks primed to be the 2017 addition to the list.
Contrast the risers with those that started at least their final year atop the heap and stuck there: Winston, Mariotta, Luck, even RG3, Newton...
But just a cautionary note... as I said, I still have work to do.
Easily... just have to look at him to see that his Wikipedia weight is off by a mile.
And, yes, tia... meant Shelton at NT. And Bryant's torn pec is not the most career debilitating injury... I feel good about his return to form.
I'll even admit, I like some of what I see about Mitch. But there is so much more that can be revealed.
One year starters are almost always a giant concern and require doing beyond your due diligence on them.
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Ok my mistake, espn had him at 290. That 265 was the first link when u google him. Still, 6'3 285-290 is my ideal DE. .
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Because they won't?
Show me the list of those who said last year, "Can't wait for Trubisky to come out!"
I think it was TCPO or tia that first cautioned us to beware the fast rising QB in the draft, e.g., Tannehill, Bortles, Locker. They're sucked up by the QB void as much as they're rocketed by ability. Mitch looks primed to be the 2017 addition to the list.
Contrast the risers with those that started at least their final year atop the heap and stuck there: Winston, Mariotta, Luck, even RG3, Newton...
But just a cautionary note... as I said, I still have work to do.
Easily... just have to look at him to see that his Wikipedia weight is off by a mile.
And, yes, tia... meant Shelton at NT. And Bryant's torn pec is not the most career debilitating injury... I feel good about his return to form.
I'll even admit, I like some of what I see about Mitch. But there is so much more that can be revealed.
One year starters are almost always a giant concern and require doing beyond your due diligence on them.
I'll even admit, I like some of what I see about Mitch. But there is so much more that can be revealed.
One year starters are almost always a giant concern and require doing beyond your due diligence on them.
I agree as well. I like Mitch at this point more than I did a Wentz last year at the same point.
The one year start doesn't bother me as much because I believe in mental acuity more than anything else...and that doesn't always come from experience. Some players just have it.
Does Mitch? We'll see.
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I'll even admit, I like some of what I see about Mitch. But there is so much more that can be revealed.
One year starters are almost always a giant concern and require doing beyond your due diligence on them.
I agree as well. I like Mitch at this point more than I did a Wentz last year at the same point.
The one year start doesn't bother me as much because I believe in mental acuity more than anything else...and that doesn't always come from experience. Some players just have it.
Does Mitch? We'll see.
I agree as well. I like Mitch at this point more than I did a Wentz last year at the same point.
The one year start doesn't bother me as much because I believe in mental acuity more than anything else...and that doesn't always come from experience. Some players just have it.
Does Mitch? We'll see.
General rule of thumb, I'm a fan of small(er) school QB's. They tend to not have elite talent around them so if they're good then you know how much of it is individual skill raising the game of players around them.
I liked Wentz a little more because of his size and work under center.
But we agree, more to be seen.
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No way in hell we take a QB with the first pick, and I hope we don't with the Eagles pick
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
I agree as well. I like Mitch at this point more than I did a Wentz last year at the same point.
The one year start doesn't bother me as much because I believe in mental acuity more than anything else...and that doesn't always come from experience. Some players just have it.
Does Mitch? We'll see.
General rule of thumb, I'm a fan of small(er) school QB's. They tend to not have elite talent around them so if they're good then you know how much of it is individual skill raising the game of players around them.
I liked Wentz a little more because of his size and work under center.
But we agree, more to be seen.
General rule of thumb, I'm a fan of small(er) school QB's. They tend to not have elite talent around them so if they're good then you know how much of it is individual skill raising the game of players around them.
I liked Wentz a little more because of his size and work under center.
But we agree, more to be seen.
Interesting perspective T.
North Dakota State is also a really good program in the sense they were winning their level of National Championships before Wentz arrived and stayed at that level when it was his time to shine. They also beat a pretty good Big 10 team (Iowa) this year without Wentz. While NDS won the National Championship in 2015 - Iowa was good enough to have a lead in the Big 10 Championship Game until the closing seconds. I can't imagine either location of program is the greatest of recruiting attractions so there's a lot to appreciate about both programs.
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No way in hell we take a QB with the first pick, and I hope we don't with the Eagles pick
No way in hell we take a QB with the first pick, and I hope we don't with the Eagles pick
I think a lot of us share your point. Dallas and Seattle never went for the national Mock Draft faves at QB in round 1; and they're currently the teams to beat in the NFC. The unfortunate thing is when there is a shortage of supply of elite QBs like 2017 looks to be, somebody like Trubisky is probably going to go in round 1 somewhere. I would be okay parting with a 2nd round pick for him; but the reality of nobody reaching up for him seems too improbable for that.
What makes a college QB so hard to peg for the next level is the type of passing game many productive college QBs are coming from don't ask them to read progressions against complicated defenses. They have a lot of pre-set area/timing throws from a predetermined 3 step, 5 step or 7 step drop with occasional bootleg/waggle pass opportunities for the QB to throw outside of pocket (frequently flooding a third of the field with 1 deep, 1 intermediate and 1 short route along with a backside receiver hitting a middle seam. In the NFL, it's mostly about who can speed read the progressions and be accurate enough to do well. RG3 can do the 7 step drop and throw a beauty to a deep 3rd for his athlete (as seen with Pryor). He can also do great with the bootleg playaction waggle passes; but he's more fragile than agile so we're still at uh-oh with him. Might as well see what we have in Hogan. Hogan's Heroes or Hogan's Zeros?
Guys that are quick enough with the read can look the part of strong arm while those that hesitate get labeled as the next Colt McCoy fair or not. Then again, how fun was it for a QB to throw to rookie WRs like Mo Mass and Brian Robiskie? There's a lot of mistrust with QBs throwing to first year starters at WRs especially in a division that has had complicated and well disguised zone blitzes inexperienced players don't always see or anticipate well. Even more so if our passer is also a rookie. All our WRs this year are first year starters except for Hawkins, which explains his ranking in TD receptions on this WR quite well especially for a guy that rarely scored for us in the past. Sometimes our line gets blamed or the QB gets blamed when the passer is holding onto the ball too long for a sack while we rarely ever hear the WRs getting blamed for a wrong adjustment to a coverage leverage/scheme. Obviously that's coaching too when the success of a pass depends on timing and trust that route adjustment will be correct all the times we're not seeing these guys on the same page. Inexperience at QB invites this growing pain while inexperience on the perimeter can compound it. Then when a team coming off 3-13 football loses both Bitonio and the upgrade at Center to injury up front - here's a little salt for our wounds.
I read an article about Jim Harbaugh in ESPN Magazine after he mapped Stanford's Football Progam into a winning tradition. He basically adopted the passing game he had the best luck with as an NFL QB under Lindy Infante back when he took the Colts to the playoffs. He explained that Lindy's setup equipped him with the best/quickest ways to get through his decisions he's handing off to his passers. Well, guess who recruited Andrew Luck to keep him ahead of the curve to stay? Luck did well when they changed HCs and went with more TEs as well. Harbaugh was also the first NFL coach to change the fortune/direction of Alex Smith (with passer ratings finally exceeding 90) prior to tapping the best football Kaepernick had at least early on. He's doing some good things for Michigan's passing game as well. As much as I hate typing this, Michigan may soon be an ideal program to look to for a QB with all the right training for the NFL game. What I did enjoy typing about that is Lindy Infante's QB/passing game criteria is a big reason for it.
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That kid ain't a pound under 290. Let's make a bet.
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Or...is your pespective: "I am an Aggie guy, and I want the Aggie guy to go #1"?
Don't get me wrong, he may be a great choice. And this defense needs a guy like that. But I think the team needs a franchise QB. This team needs a resurrection ....and only a QB, I believe can work that miracle.
No honestly my perspective is that this defense can't get off the field because we have no pass rush. He is uniquely talented with a combination of speed, quickness, size and sure tackling. The less the D is out there, the more the O has shots to score and the less they have to overcome on the scoreboard. Simple math for me. Great D's create scoring opportunities. Ours could be if we could just pressure QBs into mistakes/sacks.
PS-don't take my word for it. Just go check all the draft sites and see why they think he is the best player in the draft this year and why they think the Browns need him.
No honestly my perspective is that this defense can't get off the field because we have no pass rush. He is uniquely talented with a combination of speed, quickness, size and sure tackling. The less the D is out there, the more the O has shots to score and the less they have to overcome on the scoreboard. Simple math for me. Great D's create scoring opportunities. Ours could be if we could just pressure QBs into mistakes/sacks.
PS-don't take my word for it. Just go check all the draft sites and see why they think he is the best player in the draft this year and why they think the Browns need him.
I know that most have him rated #1. And he would probably be a good choice. I just think that we have to finally resolve the QB crisis. This franchise needs a bell cow, and a LB would not be that cow.
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Why bother when they will take Trubisky #1?
Because they won't?
Show me the list of those who said last year, "Can't wait for Trubisky to come out!"
I think it was TCPO or tia that first cautioned us to beware the fast rising QB in the draft, e.g., Tannehill, Bortles, Locker. They're sucked up by the QB void as much as they're rocketed by ability. Mitch looks primed to be the 2017 addition to the list.
Contrast the risers with those that started at least their final year atop the heap and stuck there: Winston, Mariotta, Luck, even RG3, Newton...
But just a cautionary note... as I said, I still have work to do.
Allen is way bigger than 265. Maybe 290.
Easily... just have to look at him to see that his Wikipedia weight is off by a mile.
And, yes, tia... meant Shelton at NT. And Bryant's torn pec is not the most career debilitating injury... I feel good about his return to form.
Because they won't?
Show me the list of those who said last year, "Can't wait for Trubisky to come out!"
Last year? What the fuck does last year have to do with anything? Carson Wentz was likely considered a UDFA the year before he came out.
Right here, right now...it may in fact be the Cleveland Browns FO who is saying "Can't wait for Trubisky to come out".
I think it was TCPO or tia that first cautioned us to beware the fast rising QB in the draft, e.g., Tannehill, Bortles, Locker. They're sucked up by the QB void as much as they're rocketed by ability. Mitch looks primed to be the 2017 addition to the list.
I don't know if Trubisky is a "fast riser". He hadn't played before......the guys you mention below could be considered fast risers as well as before they got to play....before they got to be seen, they didn't get any run.
Contrast the risers with those that started at least their final year atop the heap and stuck there: Winston, Mariotta, Luck, even RG3, Newton...
But just a cautionary note... as I said, I still have work to do.
So? You think the Browns need to be cautious. Well then why don't we just trade down again for a mid 1st round pick and get another Mingo or Erving? The Browns need to take a risk on a franchise QB. Plain and simple.
Easily... just have to look at him to see that his Wikipedia weight is off by a mile.
And, yes, tia... meant Shelton at NT. And Bryant's torn pec is not the most career debilitating injury... I feel good about his return to form.
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This pretty much confirms what I thought about Pasztor.
Gil Brandt tweeted. . .
Most total pressures + sacks allowed (through Wk 11)
Barksdale 34.5
C.Clark 34.5
Pasztor 33.5
Castonzo 31
Reiff 31
Ogbuehi 30.5
Free 30
This pretty much confirms what I thought about Pasztor.
Gil Brandt tweeted. . .
Most total pressures + sacks allowed (through Wk 11)
Barksdale 34.5
C.Clark 34.5
Pasztor 33.5
Castonzo 31
Reiff 31
Ogbuehi 30.5
Free 30
Does this mean that he thinks Paz sucks? What about his PFF score?
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No honestly my perspective is that this defense can't get off the field because we have no pass rush. He is uniquely talented with a combination of speed, quickness, size and sure tackling. The less the D is out there, the more the O has shots to score and the less they have to overcome on the scoreboard. Simple math for me. Great D's create scoring opportunities. Ours could be if we could just pressure QBs into mistakes/sacks.
PS-don't take my word for it. Just go check all the draft sites and see why they think he is the best player in the draft this year and why they think the Browns need him.
I know that most have him rated #1. And he would probably be a good choice. I just think that we have to finally resolve the QB crisis. This franchise needs a bell cow, and a LB would not be that cow.
I know that most have him rated #1. And he would probably be a good choice. I just think that we have to finally resolve the QB crisis. This franchise needs a bell cow, and a LB would not be that cow.
weren't you the one pushing so hard for Bosa last year, simply based upon his being ranked #1???......(yes).....
Browns have to take the best players available with every pick.....not draft to fill positions.....we need everything......
Take the surest shot....no matter what....(position)
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Because they won't?
Show me the list of those who said last year, "Can't wait for Trubisky to come out!"
I think it was TCPO or tia that first cautioned us to beware the fast rising QB in the draft, e.g., Tannehill, Bortles, Locker. They're sucked up by the QB void as much as they're rocketed by ability. Mitch looks primed to be the 2017 addition to the list.
Contrast the risers with those that started at least their final year atop the heap and stuck there: Winston, Mariotta, Luck, even RG3, Newton...
But just a cautionary note... as I said, I still have work to do.
Easily... just have to look at him to see that his Wikipedia weight is off by a mile.
And, yes, tia... meant Shelton at NT. And Bryant's torn pec is not the most career debilitating injury... I feel good about his return to form.
I'll even admit, I like some of what I see about Mitch. But there is so much more that can be revealed.
One year starters are almost always a giant concern and require doing beyond your due diligence on them.
I'll even admit, I like some of what I see about Mitch. But there is so much more that can be revealed.
One year starters are almost always a giant concern and require doing beyond your due diligence on them.
And what would be involved in "doing beyond your due diligence"? beyond passing on them altogether.
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I agree as well. I like Mitch at this point more than I did a Wentz last year at the same point.
The one year start doesn't bother me as much because I believe in mental acuity more than anything else...and that doesn't always come from experience. Some players just have it.
Does Mitch? We'll see.
General rule of thumb, I'm a fan of small(er) school QB's. They tend to not have elite talent around them so if they're good then you know how much of it is individual skill raising the game of players around them.
I liked Wentz a little more because of his size and work under center.
But we agree, more to be seen.
General rule of thumb, I'm a fan of small(er) school QB's. They tend to not have elite talent around them so if they're good then you know how much of it is individual skill raising the game of players around them.
I liked Wentz a little more because of his size and work under center.
But we agree, more to be seen.
Today at Noon, I believe he plays NC St. on TV. May have to tune in after I am done here.
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I know that most have him rated #1. And he would probably be a good choice. I just think that we have to finally resolve the QB crisis. This franchise needs a bell cow, and a LB would not be that cow.
weren't you the one pushing so hard for Bosa last year, simply based upon his being ranked #1???......(yes).....
Browns have to take the best players available with every pick.....not draft to fill positions.....we need everything......
Take the surest shot....no matter what....(position)
weren't you the one pushing so hard for Bosa last year, simply based upon his being ranked #1???......(yes).....
Browns have to take the best players available with every pick.....not draft to fill positions.....we need everything......
Take the surest shot....no matter what....(position)
Exceptions abound (special teams etc), but yes, definitely. The question seems to be Garrett or Allen, and the answer seems to depend on schematic preference, and it seems for us that would be Allen at DE next to Shelton and Bryant/Ogbah/Nassib/Meder.
That part seems if anything like the *easy* part. With those two guys it's difficult to get it very wrong. At #22 (because it will be 22, it just will, and we'll draft a bust) things get more complicated. Assuming a front seven cornerstone is drafted first, we probably don't dip back in to that well here, and to be honest our front seven would be relatively solid if we retain Collins. So then the question, what to do at 22? Safety, corner, OL (center especially) are all needs that we could argue are the biggest outside of QB, and it's rare to get *the* QB that low (as shown by your research).
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I'll even admit, I like some of what I see about Mitch. But there is so much more that can be revealed.
One year starters are almost always a giant concern and require doing beyond your due diligence on them.
And what would be involved in "doing beyond your due diligence"? beyond passing on them altogether.
And what would be involved in "doing beyond your due diligence"? beyond passing on them altogether.
To me that would involve the ENTIRE front office, coaching staff, scouting department and ownership being sold on Mitch as 'our' guy. Combing over fine details that go beyond the football field itself. Film room, personal life, influences, hobbies, background, etc etc.
I want a quality football player and a leader. No more undermining our FO and scouts from the ownership by thinking you're a football mind only to temporarily up season ticket sales at the expense of long term success.
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