Once in a Lifetime?
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Jim Brown was the GOAT. Averaged 5.2 yards per rush when teams
did not throw the ball all that much. For another I agree with Bill Belichick
on this~~~ LT. Simply the best LB I have ever seen.
Jim Brown was the GOAT. Averaged 5.2 yards per rush when teams
did not throw the ball all that much. For another I agree with Bill Belichick
on this~~~ LT. Simply the best LB I have ever seen.
I'm not trying to disagree, but I can also hear an argument that in the era of Jim Brown offenses were exclusively designed to run the ball unlike today. Conversely, I can easily say Tom Brady is the best QB I've ever seen play. But it's also objectively true that rules quite literally were made in his favor during his run unlike the greats of yesteryear.
IDK, it's stuff like this that really muddies the waters for me especially in football in saying this guy or that guy was objectively the greatest.
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I wasn't aware of that AG, I now have a bit more respect for Miller.And that is the reason Von wears #58, his hero was Derrick Thomas. He patterned his own game in a similar way to emulate Thomas.
Too bad he doesn't play for my Browns.
I wasn't aware of that AG, I now have a bit more respect for Miller.
Too bad he doesn't play for my Browns.
Get Garrett and we have the larger Clone playing for the Browns. He could easily convert to OLB in the 3-4 and has the speed and flexibility to get around and under the OTs.
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Jim Brown was the GOAT. Averaged 5.2 yards per rush when teams
did not throw the ball all that much. For another I agree with Bill Belichick
on this~~~ LT. Simply the best LB I have ever seen.
I'm not trying to disagree, but I can also hear an argument that in the era of Jim Brown offenses were exclusively designed to run the ball unlike today. Conversely, I can easily say Tom Brady is the best QB I've ever seen play. But it's also objectively true that rules quite literally were made in his favor during his run unlike the greats of yesteryear.
IDK, it's stuff like this that really muddies the waters for me especially in football in saying this guy or that guy was objectively the greatest.
I'm not trying to disagree, but I can also hear an argument that in the era of Jim Brown offenses were exclusively designed to run the ball unlike today. Conversely, I can easily say Tom Brady is the best QB I've ever seen play. But it's also objectively true that rules quite literally were made in his favor during his run unlike the greats of yesteryear.
IDK, it's stuff like this that really muddies the waters for me especially in football in saying this guy or that guy was objectively the greatest.
Certainly emphasis is a consideration, but even in the late 50's early 60's the rushing yardage totals don't look all that impressive compared to today... until you stop to realize the season was 12 games long for the first half of JB's career, when an 1,000-yd season was a true feat. It expanded to 14 starting in '61.
JB certainly stood out in his era. There were years when he simply lapped the field for the rushing crown. Prime example is '58 when he totaled 1,527. Second place? Alan Ameche with 791. But there were other years when the race to the crown was close... and he did lose it once to Jim Taylor.
The longevity of his sheer dominance is what makes his "Once" case. But my eyes make a case for the worth of others so that I can't single him out as a Oncer... Is JB the GOAT? Yes, but in my mind that is a different question... one that requires a name. Something I do not think "Once" does...
Ditto for LT... Taylor not Tomlinson...
Get Garrett and we have the larger Clone playing for the Browns. He could easily convert to OLB...
Easily? You promise?
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I'm not trying to disagree, but I can also hear an argument that in the era of Jim Brown offenses were exclusively designed to run the ball unlike today. Conversely, I can easily say Tom Brady is the best QB I've ever seen play. But it's also objectively true that rules quite literally were made in his favor during his run unlike the greats of yesteryear.
IDK, it's stuff like this that really muddies the waters for me especially in football in saying this guy or that guy was objectively the greatest.
Certainly emphasis is a consideration, but even in the late 50's early 60's the rushing yardage totals don't look all that impressive compared to today... until you stop to realize the season was 12 games long for the first half of JB's career, when an 1,000-yd season was a true feat. It expanded to 14 starting in '61.
JB certainly stood out in his era. There were years when he simply lapped the field for the rushing crown. Prime example is '58 when he totaled 1,527. Second place? Alan Ameche with 791. But there were other years when the race to the crown was close... and he did lose it once to Jim Taylor.
The longevity of his sheer dominance is what makes his "Once" case. But my eyes make a case for the worth of others so that I can't single him out as a Oncer... Is JB the GOAT? Yes, but in my mind that is a different question... one that requires a name. Something I do not think "Once" does...
Ditto for LT... Taylor not Tomlinson...
Get Garrett and we have the larger Clone playing for the Browns. He could easily convert to OLB...
Easily? You promise?
Easily? You promise?
Just as easily as Von does it and like Von they will have to account for him every play or suffer the consequences. That is what I promise.
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Just as easily as Von does it and like Von they will have to account for him every play or suffer the consequences. That is what I promise.
Even tho Von is shorter, lighter and faster?
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Just as easily as Von does it and like Von they will have to account for him every play or suffer the consequences. That is what I promise.
Even tho Von is shorter, lighter and faster?
Even tho Von is shorter, lighter and faster?
Not as much faster than you may think. I'm just saying that he has the talent to play OLB very effectively and would be a QB's nightmare. You don't think Ware isn't also a threat from the ROLB spot? He is closer to Garret's size. Clowney is an even better example with being nearly the same size with similar speed to Garrett. Now that his injuries are better he is coming into his own even without JJ. I just believe you can put him in that ROLB spot in the 3-4 and he will be very productive.
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Von played Butkus Award-caliber 3-4 OLB as a senior. Not exactly apples to apples.
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Von played Butkus Award-caliber 3-4 OLB as a senior. Not exactly apples to apples.
Agree, but my point was I think Garrett is fully capable talentwise of making a Von level OLB conversion if the Browns insist on the 3-4. Ware or Clowney vs. Garrett is actually the better comparison. @ ROLB I think he could exceed both of those guys and get into Von freakishness level of play. Truth is I just want to see the long time Browns fans here have something to look forward to every week with some hope for the long term future. They will get that quicker with him than with another project QB, which is what I see in the draft this year.
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Von played Butkus Award-caliber 3-4 OLB as a senior. Not exactly apples to apples.
Agree, but my point was I think Garrett is fully capable talentwise of making a Von level OLB conversion if the Browns insist on the 3-4. Ware or Clowney vs. Garrett is actually the better comparison. @ ROLB I think he could exceed both of those guys and get into Von freakishness level of play. Truth is I just want to see the long time Browns fans here have something to look forward to every week with some hope for the long term future. They will get that quicker with him than with another project QB, which is what I see in the draft this year.
Agree, but my point was I think Garrett is fully capable talentwise of making a Von level OLB conversion if the Browns insist on the 3-4. Ware or Clowney vs. Garrett is actually the better comparison. @ ROLB I think he could exceed both of those guys and get into Von freakishness level of play. Truth is I just want to see the long time Browns fans here have something to look forward to every week with some hope for the long term future. They will get that quicker with him than with another project QB, which is what I see in the draft this year.
I want Garrett or Allen at #1. I am not on board with any QB in this class going #1. Trubisky at the Eagles pick I can live with.
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Agree, but my point was I think Garrett is fully capable talentwise of making a Von level OLB conversion if the Browns insist on the 3-4. Ware or Clowney vs. Garrett is actually the better comparison. @ ROLB I think he could exceed both of those guys and get into Von freakishness level of play. Truth is I just want to see the long time Browns fans here have something to look forward to every week with some hope for the long term future. They will get that quicker with him than with another project QB, which is what I see in the draft this year.
I want Garrett or Allen at #1. I am not on board with any QB in this class going #1. Trubisky at the Eagles pick I can live with.
Just to play The Devil's Advocate if Mitch drops down to the middle of the first round, folks around here are going to be squeaking about how there were 20 some other teams that didn't want him and if it hadn't been for the stupid Browns he'd have dropped to the third round.I want Garrett or Allen at #1. I am not on board with any QB in this class going #1. Trubisky at the Eagles pick I can live with.
Also people like Mel Kiper will probably pimp quarterbacks so hard that he will wind up going well before that Eagles pick sees the light of day.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Here are a few "once in a lifetime" type players that my feeble mind anticipated before they were drafted:
1. Marshall Faulk. I remember thinking he was going to be UNSTOPPABLE. He went to the Colts, a very bad team, and he didn't quite live up to all the hype (which was almost impossible). I think he battled injuries, and had some good seasons, but never really blew it out of the water until going to the Rams and being part of that historic offense. I still remember those Rams teams and it was some of the most fun I've had watching football. Faulk WAS unstoppable for several years a row.
2. Andrew Luck. He was slated to be amazing early in his college career, and then shocked everyone by returning to school for another year. As "luck" would have it, the Colts got to have Peyton Manning for 100 years, and then got to draft Andrew freaking Luck. Who said life is fair?
3. Walter Jones, Guard from FSU. Many might not remember this guy, and who honestly remembers Guards? Jones was a JUCO transfer to FSU, started for a bit and destroyed every single person he played against, and then became the best Guard in the NFL for about a decade.
I don't have time to list some of the other ones, but there are definitely more names that come to mind. Cool topic.
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Just to play The Devil's Advocate if Mitch drops down to the middle of the first round, folks around here are going to be squeaking about how there were 20 some other teams that didn't want him and if it hadn't been for the stupid Browns he'd have dropped to the third round.I want Garrett or Allen at #1. I am not on board with any QB in this class going #1. Trubisky at the Eagles pick I can live with.
Also people like Mel Kiper will probably pimp quarterbacks so hard that he will wind up going well before that Eagles pick sees the light of day.
WSS
Just to play The Devil's Advocate if Mitch drops down to the middle of the first round, folks around here are going to be squeaking about how there were 20 some other teams that didn't want him and if it hadn't been for the stupid Browns he'd have dropped to the third round.
Also people like Mel Kiper will probably pimp quarterbacks so hard that he will wind up going well before that Eagles pick sees the light of day.
WSS
I hate to say it but some folks around here are dumber than dog shit haha. They will bitch no matter what happens.
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Just to play The Devil's Advocate if Mitch drops down to the middle of the first round, folks around here are going to be squeaking about how there were 20 some other teams that didn't want him and if it hadn't been for the stupid Browns he'd have dropped to the third round.I want Garrett or Allen at #1. I am not on board with any QB in this class going #1. Trubisky at the Eagles pick I can live with.
Also people like Mel Kiper will probably pimp quarterbacks so hard that he will wind up going well before that Eagles pick sees the light of day.
WSS
Just to play The Devil's Advocate if Mitch drops down to the middle of the first round, folks around here are going to be squeaking about how there were 20 some other teams that didn't want him and if it hadn't been for the stupid Browns he'd have dropped to the third round.
Also people like Mel Kiper will probably pimp quarterbacks so hard that he will wind up going well before that Eagles pick sees the light of day.
WSS
First he will be pimped so hard he won't make it that far down, but if he is there for our 2nd first rounder, the Browns will jump in with both feet.
But if we take him #1 overall you can bet it will look like this with the rest of the NFL looking like Brer Fox.
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Agree, but my point was I think Garrett is fully capable talentwise of making a Von level OLB conversion if the Browns insist on the 3-4. Ware or Clowney vs. Garrett is actually the better comparison. @ ROLB I think he could exceed both of those guys and get into Von freakishness level of play. Truth is I just want to see the long time Browns fans here have something to look forward to every week with some hope for the long term future. They will get that quicker with him than with another project QB, which is what I see in the draft this year.
I want Garrett or Allen at #1. I am not on board with any QB in this class going #1. Trubisky at the Eagles pick I can live with.
I want Garrett or Allen at #1. I am not on board with any QB in this class going #1. Trubisky at the Eagles pick I can live with.
You won't live with it because he won't be there.
What the fuck is wrong with you dimbulbs that don't get that? So many of you say get MT with the Eagles pick. Unless they take away 3-4 of the Eagles wins from them this year to reduce their total to like 1 win, that pick will not garner Trubisky.
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Just to play The Devil's Advocate if Mitch drops down to the middle of the first round, folks around here are going to be squeaking about how there were 20 some other teams that didn't want him and if it hadn't been for the stupid Browns he'd have dropped to the third round.I want Garrett or Allen at #1. I am not on board with any QB in this class going #1. Trubisky at the Eagles pick I can live with.
Also people like Mel Kiper will probably pimp quarterbacks so hard that he will wind up going well before that Eagles pick sees the light of day.
WSS
Just to play The Devil's Advocate if Mitch drops down to the middle of the first round, folks around here are going to be squeaking about how there were 20 some other teams that didn't want him and if it hadn't been for the stupid Browns he'd have dropped to the third round.
Also people like Mel Kiper will probably pimp quarterbacks so hard that he will wind up going well before that Eagles pick sees the light of day.
WSS
Sure.....but it isn't, of course, just the Kiper likes that pimp the QBs. That is the name of the NFL game now: it is all about the QBs. And it is NFL GMs and coaches that do the pimping as much as anyone.
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Randy Moss was one of a kind. I had the pleasure of seeing him play in person 7-8 times. At his physical peak, he was the fastest guy in the league, combined with his lateral quickness. He also had the highest vertical, insanely long arms, and some of the surest hands ever. To this day, I still say that if he had even half of Jerry Rice's work ethic, he would have shattered every receiving record. He revived some QB's careers (Cunningham), and in some instances, made them (Culpepper, Cassel).
Megatron was stronger than Moss, but he lacked Moss' breakaway speed. Moss also had the most ridiculous acceleration, as if he were being shot out of a cannon.
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Even tho Von is shorter, lighter and faster?
Not as much faster than you may think. I'm just saying that he has the talent to play OLB very effectively and would be a QB's nightmare. You don't think Ware isn't also a threat from the ROLB spot? He is closer to Garret's size. Clowney is an even better example with being nearly the same size with similar speed to Garrett. Now that his injuries are better he is coming into his own even without JJ. I just believe you can put him in that ROLB spot in the 3-4 and he will be very productive.
Not as much faster than you may think. I'm just saying that he has the talent to play OLB very effectively and would be a QB's nightmare. You don't think Ware isn't also a threat from the ROLB spot? He is closer to Garret's size. Clowney is an even better example with being nearly the same size with similar speed to Garrett. Now that his injuries are better he is coming into his own even without JJ. I just believe you can put him in that ROLB spot in the 3-4 and he will be very productive.
0.15 seconds difference in the 40 per DraftScout. Von posted a 1.62 in the 10-yd split and a 4.49 at the Combine. Clowney? 1.59 on his way to a 4.52. And Clowney is playing almost exclusively at DE with his hand on the ground. HOU tried standing him up in their base 3-4. They have pretty much given up on that. Now he stands almost exclusively in their dime packages when 10, if not 11, of their defenders are standing.
Individually you can argue ht., wt. and speed, but they tend to add up to agility. The greatest measured difference between Von and Clowney is their 3-cone... 6.70 vs. 7.27. The difference between a DE and an OLB. Who is Myles going to post closer to?
"Very Productive"??? I hope you are not reducing your "guarantee" to that he will be "very productive". A "very productive" #1 overall edge-guy = "disappointing". Plus there's the nature of the productivity you see. Pass rush and edge setting? That sounds DE-ish to me. Rush + Edge + Pass Defender? OLB-like.
All that said, I'm not disputing Myles' talent to be #1-worthy. I'm challenging the application of that talent to a position other than 4-3 DE at the next level. And you are not allaying my fears.
And wasn't war's point that Von was playing OLB at TAMU whereas Garrett plays DE?
3. Walter Jones, Guard from FSU. Many might not remember this guy, and who honestly remembers Guards? Jones was a JUCO transfer to FSU, started for a bit and destroyed every single person he played against, and then became the best Guard in the NFL for about a decade.
Walter Jones... the retired, HOF Seashawks' LT? Was he a Guard at FSU?
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Would you prefer "a top 5 productive NFL defender?" Or maybe "a terror for opposing QBs"? I'll go with those. And we shall see how he does in the combine. That will depend upon whether he is then fully recovered from the high ankle sprain which has nagged him since Ark. game. At this point I would not put much stock in it unless I hear him say he is now 100%. So far he has not said that.
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Yep, he was at FSU for about 8 months, but I believe he was a tackle, not a guard. Sorry about that. Walked in from JUCO ball, dominated every single person he played against, and then went to the NFL for about 12 years. He was a grown-ass man. I think he only played 11 games for FSU, and then he went straight to the NFL and continued to whip ass. He played LT for the Seahawks and was one of the reasons Shawn Alexander ran for a billion yards.
Randy Moss is an excellent addition to this list. Funny thing about Randy Moss that not everyone knows is he played for my boys at Florida State for about 3 months until he got kicked out for smoking weed all day. I was a freshman in college when Moss was there, and he showed up at the rec center when I was playing basketball. Moss looked like a freak of nature. He was pretty tall, but he seemed taller because he was SO thin. And believe me when I say he was so damn fast, it didn't make sense. He didn't run, he GLIDED across the floor, and then he didn't jump...he BOUNCED. Letting him go was one of the hardest thing Bobby Bowden had to do.
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