Stop Saying I told you so
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Almost gave a "+1", but couldn't... You lost me at 'the goal".
"Sucking" was never "the goal". It was a by-product of the process. There's a difference.
And when the process was compounded by injuries, both too great in number and too focused in at least two key areas... QBs and the OL, the O-fer was in the cards.
At least I see a difference...
Good thread though... good place to coalesce thoughts that have surfaced in more than a couple other threads' meanderings...
Sure, I'll give you those points especially the thing about injuries. It's a moot point now, but starting 5 QB's in a season is just as much bad luck as it is bad football play.
Sure, I'll give you those points especially the thing about injuries. It's a moot point now, but starting 5 QB's in a season is just as much bad luck as it is bad football play.
except injuries and the QB carousel have been the "reason" for years and years....we started 7 qb's last year, lost our whole DB backfield,half our DL, etc.....year before we started 6, lost our OL, etc etc etc.....
Thats the NFL guys....not just 2016
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Those teams did not scrap their good players and start from square 0. This is a first for the league. No one has gone this far to build before. Not even expansion teams. Everybody agrees that it should be done though. Except me. Just because they say it needed to be done doesn't make it the right way. Those teams rebuilt in a few years while we seem to be on a decades long "plan" that remains unknown.
We do have one constant though in our past 3 lousy drafts. If it seems like the same guy making the picks...It probably is.
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Have to say that I never thought sucking was the 'goal'.
Knew they wouldn't be a winning team.
Flush-and-start-over rarely produces a winning team in 1-2 years, especially when the owner is committed to building through the draft and not FA.
However, didn't see an 0-16 coming at all.
Browns didn't have a lot of talent when this new FO and coaching staff was hired.
Was surprised they gave up on some of the young talent so soon.
Biggest concerns are the those who are evaluating draft talent and the owner himself.
Haslam professes to believe in consistency but can't put that into practice.
He doesn't seem to be a good evaluator of talent himself and keeps hiring coaches and GMs that can't work together and ends up having to tinker with his own system every year... hardly a model of consistency.
Maybe that's why he gave up on 'football people' and tried something else.
Yet to see if the drafting-by-the-analytic-numbers will pan out.
I'm guessing it will show to still be lacking to some degree.
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LOL at any of you thinking sucking is the goal.
fuck sucking. if sucking is the goal then our FO is fucking pathetic.
and enough about it "feeling right" what we are doing about the plan, that's ridiculous.....
You play to win, play the best you can, and take the BEST player available in the draft that falls to you.
right now only God knows if the damn "plan" will work or not.....
I look forward to next years draft, but if we tank next year, please don't give any fucking excuses like, "the plan was to tank and rebuild for another year for another #1 pick too", because i'll go absolutely fucking mad then.
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Reread it Tim. I said IF we trade out of #1 overall, then we fucked up. Has nothing to do with the last one, just this one coming up. And if we do that I'm calling it a fuck up now. We need great payers now, not a volume of more players.
And yes in the first sentence I do feel we did not do a great job overall. A lot of reaches.
I agree with this coming draft, save for a truly blockbuster deal.
I think we nabbed more than a handful of long term starters and role players in this last draft, which we did not have prior. I count four guys off the top of my head who could turn into easy long term starters for us.
I agree with this coming draft, save for a truly blockbuster deal.
I think we nabbed more than a handful of long term starters and role players in this last draft, which we did not have prior. I count four guys off the top of my head who could turn into easy long term starters for us.
I agree that we do have some keepers, but we also got a few reaches drafted well before we should have when there were better players still available. I don't want to see a repeat of that.
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Sure, I'll give you those points especially the thing about injuries. It's a moot point now, but starting 5 QB's in a season is just as much bad luck as it is bad football play.
except injuries and the QB carousel have been the "reason" for years and years....we started 7 qb's last year, lost our whole DB backfield,half our DL, etc.....year before we started 6, lost our OL, etc etc etc.....
Thats the NFL guys....not just 2016
except injuries and the QB carousel have been the "reason" for years and years....we started 7 qb's last year, lost our whole DB backfield,half our DL, etc.....year before we started 6, lost our OL, etc etc etc.....
Thats the NFL guys....not just 2016
I don't disagree to a point, but there's a big difference in playing a 3rd string QB by week 13-14 and being on your 3rd QB by week three. That's pretty bad luck to me.
LOL at any of you thinking sucking is the goal.
fuck sucking. if sucking is the goal then our FO is fucking pathetic.
and enough about it "feeling right" what we are doing about the plan, that's ridiculous.....
You play to win, play the best you can, and take the BEST player available in the draft that falls to you.
right now only God knows if the damn "plan" will work or not.....
I look forward to next years draft, but if we tank next year, please don't give any fucking excuses like, "the plan was to tank and rebuild for another year for another #1 pick too", because i'll go absolutely fucking mad then.
Jesus, you whiners get caught up on semantics. Yes, the goal of every sports team in the history of existence is to go undefeated, win the championship and take champagne baths. But in the NFL, you gotta suck with young players to let them develop. With the exception of the Patriots that has literally been the formula for every good team in the game. It's not the goal to be bad but it's what happens and literally anyone with the critical thinking skills beyond 1st grade can understand that.
Another thing to realize is that for most teams that elite window is short, 2-3 years short. What the Patriots are doing is honestly incredible when you stop to think about it. Seriously, look at the Panthers and Broncos this year and realize the way to make that happen is hitting on your draft picks and sprinkling in the right FA's. That's what the Browns are doing, but we're in year one of that process. This approach is the better of the two because this time instead of trying to start over by lighting it on over we nuked the son of a bitch.
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They drafted smart. And they did not dump their best players to get better.
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They drafted smart. And they did not dump their best players to get better.
They drafted smart. And they did not dump their best players to get better.
Mainly because they didn't have any good players to dump outside of Schwartz (perhaps a mistake) and Mack (who had already packed his bags outta here). Definitely agree.
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I'm with jrb. For fuck's sake everybody was predicting the team to go 1 + 15 or 0 and 16 and now we're surprised as shit.
My only concern is that there isn't anybody at the top of the draft worth tanking to get. That means nobody is going to want to make a blockbuster trade even.
WSS
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I'm with jrb. For fuck's sake everybody was predicting the team to go 1 + 15 or 0 and 16 and now we're surprised as shit.
My only concern is that there isn't anybody at the top of the draft worth tanking to get. That means nobody is going to want to make a blockbuster trade even.
WSS
I'm with jrb. For fuck's sake everybody was predicting the team to go 1 + 15 or 0 and 16 and now we're surprised as shit.
My only concern is that there isn't anybody at the top of the draft worth tanking to get. That means nobody is going to want to make a blockbuster trade even.
WSS
I think there's two great prospects (Allen and Garrett) that have game changing potential. Unless something drastic changes either of those guys would be a great upgrade.
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I like the way these guys are doing it. Sure its the most painful thing ive ever witnessed, but it actually feels right this time. Purging all the past years mediocre talent has been this teams biggest issue till this year. Browns have been trying to make it work with Trail mix. Weve had 3-4, 5-2, 4-3, and hybrid guys on defense while on offense tryin to make it work with spread, west coast, ground and pound and WildDawg characters. This team has had no identity for over a decade and these guys are basically using the eraser till they have a blank sheet. Sticking with these guys for a long period of time will result in better continuity and at the very least give the next group of guys a better shot at correcting the problem. The next regime will say "Well at least I can see what they were doing."
I wonder if Joe Thomas keeps his offensive playbooks that new coaches or coordinators give him. Can you imagine. He opens up a closet door and a chizinsky playbook falls out and he picks it up and is like hold on I think I have the 2nd one he gave me a few later in here. And he just starts going thru a stack of playbooks
I like the way these guys are doing it. Sure its the most painful thing ive ever witnessed, but it actually feels right this time.
Ditto...
Agree. Some of the pompousness around our fan base is tough to take. All this losing is making fans crazy.
The word is "pomposity"... get it right you fucking peasant...
Yep. These guys are f'ing annoying. Even some of those who are NOT jumping off the cliff now predicted that we would suck, so why are the cliffjumpers bragging about how they called it?
Meh... bothers me less than those who predicted 8-8 or better and now cry "suck"...
I don't understand why the same people saying "we have needs everywhere, our roster blows, not one position is set, etc." are the same ones saying they will blow up a mall if we trade back.
lol... You're still using "consistency" as a measuring stick? How long have you been here?
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LOL at any of you thinking sucking is the goal.
fuck sucking. if sucking is the goal then our FO is fucking pathetic.
and enough about it "feeling right" what we are doing about the plan, that's ridiculous.....
You play to win, play the best you can, and take the BEST player available in the draft that falls to you.
right now only God knows if the damn "plan" will work or not.....
I look forward to next years draft, but if we tank next year, please don't give any fucking excuses like, "the plan was to tank and rebuild for another year for another #1 pick too", because i'll go absolutely fucking mad then.
I look forward to next years draft, but if we tank next year, please don't give any fucking excuses like, "the plan was to tank and rebuild for another year for another #1 pick too", because i'll go absolutely fucking mad then.
How will we know?
I'm with jrb. For fuck's sake everybody was predicting the team to go 1 + 15 or 0 and 16 and now we're surprised as shit.
Actually I'd bet the 1-win + 0-win pack would be under 25%... but can't prove it.
Tried searching the forum several ways and not finding a prediction thread for 2016 other than this thinly participated one:
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=41066&hl=predict%2A
Maybe someone else will have better luck...
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I'm not one who starts thread, but this shit has been driving me crazy on this forum lately. This Browns 2016 team was going to suck, and that was intentionally the plan. To sit here and act holier than thou in so many threads and say shit like "SEE, I told you guys!" is driving me insane. It's just as stupid as Dareus predicting a win against us this week. Look at the better teams in the NFL right now:
Chiefs
Raiders
Titans
Colts
Dolphins
Bucs
etc.
You know what these guys did before they got good? They sucked and built through the draft. Three of those teams used top 3 picks on the QB position and lived in the bottom of the barrel until they got that right. They purged mediocre talent and got young guys who can play, but young guys don't instantly play at pro bowl levels. We clearly suck, but the point was to clearly suck. Sure we probably suck more than even I expected, but my personal over/under on wins this season was two. I get being frustrated, and I get the argument of this plan not working with previous regimes. The thing is though, this is the 1st time we've truly executed the reboot the way it should be done, at least IMO. You don't hold on to mediocre to below average veterans in lieu of developing young guys. You tank to get that game changing player.
The point is, the goal this year was to suck and we do, in fact, suck. You aren't the smartest guy in the room for saying you knew this was going to happen because we all did.
There's a few FAS as well, but ya, they did it through the draft...Smart drafting. And no argument about the merits of that system. But when you see most of those teams suck, get good, then suck and get good again while we just maintain the steady vacuum of a Hoover. Kinda like the old story about the kid who cried wolf. Fans are tired of hearing it and are gonna bitch and there's not much shortage of reasons.I'm not one who starts thread, but this shit has been driving me crazy on this forum lately. This Browns 2016 team was going to suck, and that was intentionally the plan. To sit here and act holier than thou in so many threads and say shit like "SEE, I told you guys!" is driving me insane. It's just as stupid as Dareus predicting a win against us this week. Look at the better teams in the NFL right now:
Chiefs
Raiders
Titans
Colts
Dolphins
Bucs
etc.
You know what these guys did before they got good? They sucked and built through the draft. Three of those teams used top 3 picks on the QB position and lived in the bottom of the barrel until they got that right. They purged mediocre talent and got young guys who can play, but young guys don't instantly play at pro bowl levels. We clearly suck, but the point was to clearly suck. Sure we probably suck more than even I expected, but my personal over/under on wins this season was two. I get being frustrated, and I get the argument of this plan not working with previous regimes. The thing is though, this is the 1st time we've truly executed the reboot the way it should be done, at least IMO. You don't hold on to mediocre to below average veterans in lieu of developing young guys. You tank to get that game changing player.
The point is, the goal this year was to suck and we do, in fact, suck. You aren't the smartest guy in the room for saying you knew this was going to happen because we all did.
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I look forward to next years draft, but if we tank next year, please don't give any fucking excuses like, "the plan was to tank and rebuild for another year for another #1 pick too", because i'll go absolutely fucking mad then.
How will we know?
I'm with jrb. For fuck's sake everybody was predicting the team to go 1 + 15 or 0 and 16 and now we're surprised as shit.
Actually I'd bet the 1-win + 0-win pack would be under 25%... but can't prove it.
Tried searching the forum several ways and not finding a prediction thread for 2016 other than this thinly participated one:
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=41066&hl=predict%2A
Maybe someone else will have better luck...
How will we know?
Actually I'd bet the 1-win + 0-win pack would be under 25%... but can't prove it.
Tried searching the forum several ways and not finding a prediction thread for 2016 other than this thinly participated one:
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=41066&hl=predict%2A
Maybe someone else will have better luck...
I had us at about 2-14, but I figured both wins would come in the first 6 games. Once we got to 0-8, I figured we'd go winless, maybe 1 victory in the last week or three.
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Reread it Tim. I said IF we trade out of #1 overall, then we fucked up. Has nothing to do with the last one, just this one coming up. And if we do that I'm calling it a fuck up now. We need great payers now, not a volume of more players.
And yes in the first sentence I do feel we did not do a great job overall. A lot of reaches.
I agree with this coming draft, save for a truly blockbuster deal.
I think we nabbed more than a handful of long term starters and role players in this last draft, which we did not have prior. I count four guys off the top of my head who could turn into easy long term starters for us.
I agree with this coming draft, save for a truly blockbuster deal.
I think we nabbed more than a handful of long term starters and role players in this last draft, which we did not have prior. I count four guys off the top of my head who could turn into easy long term starters for us.
33%? guess it's better than 32%
oh, is it too late to say 'i told you so'?
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I agree with this coming draft, save for a truly blockbuster deal.
I think we nabbed more than a handful of long term starters and role players in this last draft, which we did not have prior. I count four guys off the top of my head who could turn into easy long term starters for us.
33%? guess it's better than 32%
oh, is it too late to say 'i told you so'?
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Good post.
Been singing the same song, different hymnal.
Mine goes:
Dallas Cowboys 1989 1-15
Dallas Cowboys 1992 Lost NFC championship to Lions
Dallas Cowboys 1993 Super Bowl champs
Get the reboot right.
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The Vegas over/under was 4.5 wins.
The Vegas over/under was 4.5 wins.
as was Shashis....
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I agree with this coming draft, save for a truly blockbuster deal.
I think we nabbed more than a handful of long term starters and role players in this last draft, which we did not have prior. I count four guys off the top of my head who could turn into easy long term starters for us.
33%? guess it's better than 32%
oh, is it too late to say 'i told you so'?
33%? guess it's better than 32%
oh, is it too late to say 'i told you so'?
Want to compare that to past Browns' hit rates?
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