Who takes the fall?
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Yep, playing hard is not the same as playing good
or having the god given talent to play at the NFL level.
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So we're disappointed that we did not win 4 or 5. Certainly would have held the wolves at bay here... wouldn't it?
<--- Rhetorical question alert!Interestingly, I think Jimmah could go all Jedi mind trick on us. Egos can be fed by doing the unexpected... zigging when every pundit, both pro and amateur, says, "He'll zag." Especially when the person has zagged every time in his history.
Displaying personal, professional growth can be ego boosting.
Exactly why I made the sarcastic post earlier (I don't remember which thread). Are people really that mad that we've won 0 games instead of 4 right now? Is it that big a deal?
As for the rest of the quoted part, not sure what you're suggesting. That Jimmy may not say anything?
I would suggest that you read the Willoughby News Herald, Cleveland Plain Dealer, Youngstown Vindicator, Akron Beacon Journal, Canton Repository and listen to some local talk radio before you suggest that people aren't pissed. Maybe where you're at they don't care. Here in the NE Ohio region.... They're pissed like never before. Jimmy Haslam has single handedly taken any fun in football away. And this is a football rich region. HOF, Paul Brown type football. The Winless Haslam's are a slap in the face here.Exactly why I made the sarcastic post earlier (I don't remember which thread). Are people really that mad that we've won 0 games instead of 4 right now? Is it that big a deal?
As for the rest of the quoted part, not sure what you're suggesting. That Jimmy may not say anything?
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I have a hard time believing Jimmy would have fired Mangini. Thats the last time we were competitive except maybe the 7-9 year with pettine. and i feel like Chud had our offense playing pretty well.
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I thought he was the "football" guy...no?
Id expect he had a hand in the consensus, at least as much as anyone else throwing in bits.....Id bet Kessler is Hues guy...
I'm not saying Hue is not involved... just pushing back on the "Hue at the point of our college scouting spear" stance I saw another taking.
Kessler is the shining example of his involvement. His on-camera reaction in our "war room" told us that. I've no doubt he liked and lobbied for the pick, and may have even had a hand in taking him as high as we did. What I doubt is that he brought Kess', or other names, to our FO's attention. It's a matter of roles and time.
In season the number of college games Hue watches, even as a fan, can probably be counted on one hand... and most of those likely came in our Bye-week. I doubt that in-season he even sits in on college scouting sessions. He may be cc'd on monthly or other summary reports that those sessions produce, but more than detailed summaries of individual prospects, I'd expect them to boil up trends emerging in the draft. Trends like at which positions the draft is looking strong, deep and conversely where it looks to be thin, weak.
After the season? First Hue and his staff have to be neck deep in final roster evaluation. This season, with a legit, tag decision to be made, will demand even more time. This will be with our Pro Scouting group and flow into FA evaluations.
Then Hue & Co. have natural roles in several college scouting outings, e.g., Senior Bowl, East-West Shrine, etc. All these are week long beauty pageants complete with interview opportunities. All these also include representatives of our College Scouting department... likely with an Analytical rep or two to boot. Was - rinse - repeat when The Combine and Pro-Days roll around with some adjusting of who goes in the latter cases to obscure, or artificially pump up, our perceived "interest level". I can't see a route for culled names resurfacing or coming to our FO's attention that does not involve one of these trips.
I've little doubt that by the time our final board is set, Hue has watched more tape on prospects than all but the most "dedicated" fans here. His primary focus? Little doubt it's QBs. Secondary? I'd think other offensive skill positions followed by OL. Same tape volume for his "OC", Pep. O-Position coaches? I'm not so sure, but more due to their focus than involvement. D-side? No doubt Hue does some, but seems clear to me Ray would be primary here.
Regardless of the depth of their individual plunges, I think all will have worked off the FO's scouting lists which trim 1000's down to 100's.
Roles... what a concept!
I will say this.....Haslam was not expecting or prepared to go 0-16......
Todays radio discussions focused on that and said what Sashi said this spring.....the "expectation" was 4-5 wins.....
Now, Jimmy is looking around and asking why?....coaches say we dont have enough talent.....FO saying the coaches didnt do enough with the talent...
I know I know....it's all Tony Grossi/Tony Rizzo hearsay.....but, where there's smoke there's fire......and I heard Sashi say 4-5 wins would be a disappointment.....so, we know the BROWNS arent pleased and the owner isnt pleased and the FO who engineered this isnt pleased.....so it cant be going according to plan....otherwise, why would Shashi call 5 wins a disappoinment?
and if the coaches, FO and owner are all disappointed, why are we supposed to be otherwise???
I think Jimmah will do something to show his discontent....what?....who knows,,,,,but I think his ego wont let him do nothing
So we're disappointed that we did not win 4 or 5. Certainly would have held the wolves at bay here... wouldn't it?
<--- Rhetorical question alert!Interestingly, I think Jimmah could go all Jedi mind trick on us. Egos can be fed by doing the unexpected... zigging when every pundit, both pro and amateur, says, "He'll zag." Especially when the person has zagged every time in his history.
Displaying personal, professional growth can be ego boosting.
I'm not saying Hue is not involved... just pushing back on the "Hue at the point of our college scouting spear" stance I saw another taking.
Kessler is the shining example of his involvement.
So we're disappointed that we did not win 4 or 5. Certainly would have held the wolves at bay here... wouldn't it?
<--- Rhetorical question alert!Interestingly, I think Jimmah could go all Jedi mind trick on us. Egos can be fed by doing the unexpected... zigging when every pundit, both pro and amateur, says, "He'll zag." Especially when the person has zagged every time in his history.
Displaying personal, professional growth can be ego boosting.
Right....Kessler is the one Id consider "Hues pick".....you could tell he was excited about him.....
And I hope Jimmah does play some mind tricks....certainly would prefer growth over repetition....
Exactly why I made the sarcastic post earlier (I don't remember which thread). Are people really that mad that we've won 0 games instead of 4 right now? Is it that big a deal?
As for the rest of the quoted part, not sure what you're suggesting. That Jimmy may not say anything?
No....it's not that 4 wins is special or a big deal.....its that 0 wins is embarrassingly and historically bad......and the Browns, no matter what their recent history is, have been historically good......so, no one wants that stigma of being the worst ever....(its a big nasty stain that'll be hard for many of us to wash away)
and it's impossible to convince me(and most long time fans) that making the team "this bad" is a requirement to getting good.....especially when there is zero precedent for it.....
Most of us question why the cuts had to be so deep....and why every other GOOD team, in history, was able to achieve success, without taking the path of complete failure to get there.....
Reading the post below....I can assure you(100%) that the local press, radio, TV and fans are all raging right now.....very little(if any) support for this path(plan)......and many are the trusted and loved Browns vets like Cribbs, Kosar, Dieken and Golic who are ripping the team to shreds....it's certainly not just me.....and, locally, it's almost everybody....(pretty much nationally too, though they are a bit more divided in their far away opinions).....
I would suggest that you read the Willoughby News Herald, Cleveland Plain Dealer, Youngstown Vindicator, Akron Beacon Journal, Canton Repository and listen to some local talk radio before you suggest that people aren't pissed. Maybe where you're at they don't care. Here in the NE Ohio region.... They're pissed like never before. Jimmy Haslam has single handedly taken any fun in football away. And this is a football rich region. HOF, Paul Brown type football. The Winless Haslam's are a slap in the face here.
Yep.....radio is raging.....and getting louder by the day......and Im certain they(the Browns) are hearing it loud and clear....
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I would suggest that you read the Willoughby News Herald, Cleveland Plain Dealer, Youngstown Vindicator, Akron Beacon Journal, Canton Repository and listen to some local talk radio before you suggest that people aren't pissed. Maybe where you're at they don't care. Here in the NE Ohio region.... They're pissed like never before. Jimmy Haslam has single handedly taken any fun in football away. And this is a football rich region. HOF, Paul Brown type football. The Winless Haslam's are a slap in the face here.Exactly why I made the sarcastic post earlier (I don't remember which thread). Are people really that mad that we've won 0 games instead of 4 right now? Is it that big a deal?
As for the rest of the quoted part, not sure what you're suggesting. That Jimmy may not say anything?
I would suggest that you read the Willoughby News Herald, Cleveland Plain Dealer, Youngstown Vindicator, Akron Beacon Journal, Canton Repository and listen to some local talk radio before you suggest that people aren't pissed. Maybe where you're at they don't care. Here in the NE Ohio region.... They're pissed like never before. Jimmy Haslam has single handedly taken any fun in football away. And this is a football rich region. HOF, Paul Brown type football. The Winless Haslam's are a slap in the face here.
I never said people aren't pissed. You really need better reading comprehension. Though the fact that people are pissed goes to Tour and I's point. You guys miss your 3-4 wins THAT badly? Get over it. This isn't a perennial playoff team that's going winless here.
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Mud, the stain will be washed away in due time. Not worried about it.
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Where do you see area's of improvement that suggest this team is headed in the right direction war?
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Mud, the stain will be washed away in due time. Not worried about it.
I see that as well. And it starts next year. Same thing I saw at the start of 2016, we are just starting from a marginally lower point.
Win a few... be in many more.. point towards 2018 to fully get in the fray.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I have a hard time believing Jimmy would have fired Mangini. Thats the last time we were competitive except maybe the 7-9 year with pettine. and i feel like Chud had our offense playing pretty well.
I have a hard time believing Jimmy would have fired Mangini. Thats the last time we were competitive except maybe the 7-9 year with pettine. and i feel like Chud had our offense playing pretty well.
i don't think any of those guys were all that great...don't see any of them headcoaching in the nfl now. However like you say, at least we were not saying season over after 4 or 5 games into the season...right now i look at this shit we have on the field and after the first snap is taken, i am thinking, we are going to lose. that is how bad it is...
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Mud, the stain will be washed away in due time. Not worried about it.
I see that as well. And it starts next year. Same thing I saw at the start of 2016, we are just starting from a marginally lower point.
Win a few... be in many more.. point towards 2018 to fully get in the fray.
So it's come full circle. Just wait till next year, we'll get em.I see that as well. And it starts next year. Same thing I saw at the start of 2016, we are just starting from a marginally lower point.
Win a few... be in many more.. point towards 2018 to fully get in the fray.
That is the most used phrase in our history.
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So it's come full circle. Just wait till next year, we'll get em.I see that as well. And it starts next year. Same thing I saw at the start of 2016, we are just starting from a marginally lower point.
Win a few... be in many more.. point towards 2018 to fully get in the fray.
That is the most used phrase in our history.
So it's come full circle. Just wait till next year, we'll get em.
That is the most used phrase in our history.
like an old record that's skips.
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I see what I see...
Amuses me to no end to be branded as a pessimist as the preseason approaches and a Pollyanna as the post-season draws near... mostly by the same people for my saying the same thing.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I see what I see...
Amuses me to no end to be branded as a pessimist as the preseason approaches and a Pollyanna as the post-season draws near... mostly by the same people for my saying the same thing.
I see what I see...
Amuses me to no end to be branded as a pessimist as the preseason approaches and a Pollyanna as the post-season draws near... mostly by the same people for my saying the same thing.
It's the preseason optimists that have their panties in a wad right now. For some reason, these guys saw a roster get shredded to pieces and went "oh, we'll win 8 games".
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I'm not saying Hue is not involved... just pushing back on the "Hue at the point of our college scouting spear" stance I saw another taking.
Kessler is the shining example of his involvement.
So we're disappointed that we did not win 4 or 5. Certainly would have held the wolves at bay here... wouldn't it?
<--- Rhetorical question alert!Interestingly, I think Jimmah could go all Jedi mind trick on us. Egos can be fed by doing the unexpected... zigging when every pundit, both pro and amateur, says, "He'll zag." Especially when the person has zagged every time in his history.
Displaying personal, professional growth can be ego boosting.
Right....Kessler is the one Id consider "Hues pick".....you could tell he was excited about him.....
And I hope Jimmah does play some mind tricks....certainly would prefer growth over repetition....
Exactly why I made the sarcastic post earlier (I don't remember which thread). Are people really that mad that we've won 0 games instead of 4 right now? Is it that big a deal?
As for the rest of the quoted part, not sure what you're suggesting. That Jimmy may not say anything?
No....it's not that 4 wins is special or a big deal.....its that 0 wins is embarrassingly and historically bad......and the Browns, no matter what their recent history is, have been historically good......so, no one wants that stigma of being the worst ever....(its a big nasty stain that'll be hard for many of us to wash away)
and it's impossible to convince me(and most long time fans) that making the team "this bad" is a requirement to getting good.....especially when there is zero precedent for it.....
Most of us question why the cuts had to be so deep....and why every other GOOD team, in history, was able to achieve success, without taking the path of complete failure to get there.....
Reading the post below....I can assure you(100%) that the local press, radio, TV and fans are all raging right now.....very little(if any) support for this path(plan)......and many are the trusted and loved Browns vets like Cribbs, Kosar, Dieken and Golic who are ripping the team to shreds....it's certainly not just me.....and, locally, it's almost everybody....(pretty much nationally too, though they are a bit more divided in their far away opinions).....
I would suggest that you read the Willoughby News Herald, Cleveland Plain Dealer, Youngstown Vindicator, Akron Beacon Journal, Canton Repository and listen to some local talk radio before you suggest that people aren't pissed. Maybe where you're at they don't care. Here in the NE Ohio region.... They're pissed like never before. Jimmy Haslam has single handedly taken any fun in football away. And this is a football rich region. HOF, Paul Brown type football. The Winless Haslam's are a slap in the face here.
Yep.....radio is raging.....and getting louder by the day......and Im certain they(the Browns) are hearing it loud and clear....
No....it's not that 4 wins is special or a big deal.....its that 0 wins is embarrassingly and historically bad......and the Browns, no matter what their recent history is, have been historically good......so, no one wants that stigma of being the worst ever....(its a big nasty stain that'll be hard for many of us to wash away)
and it's impossible to convince me(and most long time fans) that making the team "this bad" is a requirement to getting good.....especially when there is zero precedent for it.....
Most of us question why the cuts had to be so deep....and why every other GOOD team, in history, was able to achieve success, without taking the path of complete failure to get there.....
Reading the post below....I can assure you(100%) that the local press, radio, TV and fans are all raging right now.....very little(if any) support for this path(plan)......and many are the trusted and loved Browns vets like Cribbs, Kosar, Dieken and Golic who are ripping the team to shreds....it's certainly not just me.....and, locally, it's almost everybody....(pretty much nationally too, though they are a bit more divided in their far away opinions).....
Yep.....radio is raging.....and getting louder by the day......and Im certain they(the Browns) are hearing it loud and clear....
I'm with you on the bolded. That empty stadium Saturday will speak volumes too. The PD tossed the question out- and it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Cavs out draw the Browns this weekend.
I never said people aren't pissed. You really need better reading comprehension. Though the fact that people are pissed goes to Tour and I's point. You guys miss your 3-4 wins THAT badly? Get over it. This isn't a perennial playoff team that's going winless here.
But it is a team with a really proud tradition that Haslam, Sushi and Depudster have driven into an absolute nadir of ineptitude. Talent? Outside of Joe Thomas, probably Collins, and maybe Kirksey & Shelton care to name one other Browns player who would be starting for the Cowboys? Yeah we have some young and promising guys- but as the Raiders proved- you don't need 4 years to get very good.
It's cumulative frustration War. Other than the one playoff season since 1999- the Browns have sucked, sucked, and sucked some more. We've seen teams go to the Super Bowl, proceed to stink, and get back to the Super Bowl- like Carolina. MHO- this season is the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.
Yeah- 3-4 wins is at least run of the mill bad. You see it every year. 0-16 has only been done once before- that, as Mud said- is historically bad. The Browns have been so pathetic the last few games, it's looked like they didn't even belong on the field with the other team. Football is part entertainment, and the only entertaining thing about Cleveland is how bad they've looked.
In case you missed it- the Browns sent out a survey to the season ticket holders (of which I'm one) asking in part how they felt about the direction the team is headed. I absolutely blasted them in every way I possibly could. I have a pretty high level of confidence when they collate and analyze that survey for Jimmy- he's going to find out his most loyal customers (there's fans who's families have had season tickets from the beginning in 1946 & I've had mine since 1999) are mad as hell. They'll have one more year to turn this around- and at least look like a semblance of an NFL team- or the Browns will be playing to an empty stadium, loaded with the opposing teams fans.
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Under the ownership of Jimmy Haslam the Cleveland Browns are 14-48, less than 30% winning percentage, but don't worry he'll figure it out
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Hoorta, you are a whiner with no solutions, like most of them. I have one: let's try giving a regime three years.
Fyi, no one was louder than you all offseason about predicting 0-16 yet we have it and you're in full panic mode, shocked at the results. Makes lots of sense.
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Under the ownership of Jimmy Haslam the Cleveland Browns are 14-48, less than 30% winning percentage, but don't worry he'll figure it out
His HC is now 8-22 as a HC and 0-14 for Haslam.Under the ownership of Jimmy Haslam the Cleveland Browns are 14-48, less than 30% winning percentage, but don't worry he'll figure it out
Math....Go figure
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I see what I see...
Amuses me to no end to be branded as a pessimist as the preseason approaches and a Pollyanna as the post-season draws near... mostly by the same people for my saying the same thing.
It's the preseason optimists that have their panties in a wad right now. For some reason, these guys saw a roster get shredded to pieces and went "oh, we'll win 8 games".
It's the preseason optimists that have their panties in a wad right now. For some reason, these guys saw a roster get shredded to pieces and went "oh, we'll win 8 games".
Actually you can add some of us who saw 0-8 coming, but were expecting competitive football the last 8 that might translate into a few (3 or more for Tour
) wins with hope for a lot more in 2017. But now we are even further back than ever before and with a coach that does (or is it duhs?) a lot of bone-headed game day decision making running he show and a FO with unproven draft skills. After I see what we do in FA and the draft I will decide where I see us headed next year, but at the moment the old eight ball says, "Outlook Not So Good."
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