those wanting garoppolo
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Alex Smith is NOT worth a first rounder and neither is Dalton.. I really don't think we could go very deep (In the playoffs) with these QB's who are marginal at best , in My view...
Ya, let's not use a first rounder to get a starting QB, let's save those picks for some more guards and stuff.
It is Haves and Havenots in the QB world. KC and Cincy have them, we have not.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Ya, let's not use a first rounder to get a starting QB, let's save those picks for some more guards and stuff.
It is Haves and Havenots in the QB world. KC and Cincy have them, we have not.
Zombo
Yes ,, and I want a Manning/Roethlisberger type.. Not 2nd rate QB's.. I want someone defenses fear.. Smith and Dalton don't strike fear in anyone...
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Not in Camp Jimmie here and it has nothing to do with Mallet or Cassell. Mallet is just a 3rd-round, head case and Cassell was a 7th-round hope and a prayer. Even if the "Pats' system" artificially inflated their value, that does not necessarily mean JG will bust with another team.
So, if we must...
All 1st round picks are not created equal. I can't go Jimmy G with a top twelve-ish pick, but then do we have to? Trading down the Philly pick and then trading away the #20 or so for him would be more palatable. Even the Pats R1 (~#30 overall) would ease the pain some.
Then ask yourself.. Why would Bill trade him if he's so great?.. Brady can't sling it forever.
Simply because there's enough Brady left to sift through a couple o' three more drafts for his ultimate replacement .
Not in Camp Jimmie here and it has nothing to do with Mallet or Cassell. Mallet is just a 3rd-round, head case and Cassell was a 7th-round hope and a prayer. Even if the "Pats' system" artificially inflated their value, that does not necessarily mean JG will bust with another team.
So, if we must...
All 1st round picks are not created equal. I can't go Jimmy G with a top twelve-ish pick, but then do we have to? Trading down the Philly pick and then trading away the #20 or so for him would be more palatable. Even the Pats R1 (~#30 overall) would ease the pain some.
Simply because there's enough Brady left to sift through a couple o' three more drafts for his ultimate replacement .
With the first round pick they think he's worth no less.
The Bradford deal set a very bad precedent. Just because the Vikings were desperate, doesn't mean the Browns have to follow suit.
I could live with a trade down into the 20s, pick up a future first, then take Jimmy. He's not worth a top 10 pick.
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Yeah it comes down to individual grades on individual players. Personally I don't believe Garrapolo to have higher potential than the players we could just draft with that pick, so I don't see the value in dropping a first on him. If it was a second and a third (or something along those lines) I'm a lot closer to being on board. At that point it'd be worth the risk because two cornerstones could be chosen.
Like it's been said however, some other team is likely to give the Pats the first they desire... It should just be later in the round.
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Zombo said:
Ya, let's not use a first rounder to get a starting QB, let's save those picks for some more guards and stuff.
It is Haves and Havenots in the QB world. KC and Cincy have them, we have not.
Zombo
Yes ,, and I want a Manning/Roethlisberger type.. Not 2nd rate QB's.. I want someone defenses fear.. Smith and Dalton don't strike fear in anyone...
-
The Bradford deal set an awful precedent, but it just illustrates what a team will do to stabilize this position. To me, this situation is SLIGHTLY different than others because the Vikings lost their starting QB very close to the start of the season, and they thought they were a QB away from being a contender. We know now that they were wrong. Their offense was anemic, they lacked any big play potential, and they suffered nasty injuries to their RB and OL. They were zero fun to watch, and they basically tried to march the ball down the field with a bevy of 3 yard passes.
That deal hasn't worked out, but there are others that have, right? Look at what Alex Smith has accomplished in K.C. Weren't they like 2-14 before getting Smith and Andy Reid? What's their record since both of those guys got there? And there are people on this board that wouldn't want Alex Smith? He's not Aaron Rodgers by a long shot, but the guy can freaking play. I would love to see Garoppolo in Cleveland, but it's a huge risk, as we all know. We know we have to try SOMETHING, so is J.G. a better option than somebody like Mitch or Kizer? What if we can get J.G. for a second round pick? Then we'd have our two first rounders, plus our other 2nd rounder. So maybe we get Myles Garrett, Jamal Adams (safety from LSU), and Pocic from LSU (center), and then Garoppolo in the first two days of the draft? We give up a second rounder, and probably a 4th, but we have a stud pass rusher, safety, OL (who can play center and guard), and our potential QB. Of course, this all hinges on the deal for J.G. going down for a second round pick instead of a first, but whatever. Maybe we throw in Josh Gordon in the deal, and then Gordon goes to the Pats like Randy Moss did, and proceeds to blow the league up.
I keep hearing talk from Joe Thomas and others that indicates RG III will be coming back, and we shouldn't be surprised to see him back with our team.....starting. I guess I'll believe that when I see it, but Hue really does seem to think he can play. With RG III's injury history AND his inability to get rid of the ball, we obviously can't rely solely on him. Suffice to say, the Browns QB watch will be in full swing...yet again...and your guess is as good as mine to what takes place. Hue Jackson wants us to "trust him", and right now...I don't see any great options.
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Because Mallett wasnt good, we need to assume every other NE QB will be the same?......foolish thought process...
I don't think that learning from the past is a foolish thought process.
Yes, each player has to be evaluated separately and not JUST because of others in their position before them....but it just seems that every other freakin year the talking heads want to anoint the current Patriots backup QB as the next great thing.
JG was a VERY late 2nd round pick....has done very little...and talking heads are now putting a 1st round PLUS grade on him.
...and I DO agree that until you have a real franchise type starting QB you should always be looking at ways to get one. As I like to say, you've gotta keep swinging the bat until you hit one out when it comes to the QB. But ya can't be swinging at 'high & outside'.
I never liked Mallet or Hoyer (you here don't know that cos I wasn't at this forum then). Hoyer did better than I expected. JG, I don't have a good feel for. Haven't seen enough of him. I would proceed with caution.
I don't think that learning from the past is a foolish thought process.
Yes, each player has to be evaluated separately and not JUST because of others in their position before them....but it just seems that every other freakin year the talking heads want to anoint the current Patriots backup QB as the next great thing.
JG was a VERY late 2nd round pick....has done very little...and talking heads are now putting a 1st round PLUS grade on him.
...and I DO agree that until you have a real franchise type starting QB you should always be looking at ways to get one. As I like to say, you've gotta keep swinging the bat until you hit one out when it comes to the QB. But ya can't be swinging at 'high & outside'.
I never liked Mallet or Hoyer (you here don't know that cos I wasn't at this forum then). Hoyer did better than I expected. JG, I don't have a good feel for. Haven't seen enough of him. I would proceed with caution.
^^^^^ This.
Yes ,, and I want a Manning/Roethlisberger type.. Not 2nd rate QB's.. I want someone defenses fear.. Smith and Dalton don't strike fear in anyone...
They do have to be accounted for, But I want something better.
Zombo said:
2nd Rate is better than the 5th Rate we throw out there.
If a Manning pops up, let me know, I'll jump on that train.
Zombo
I'm with Nickers- so great Garropolo pumper, get your crystal ball out and tell me what you think Jimmy's ceiling is. It had damn well better be higher than Ryan Tannehill's. That's your classic second tier. If you think he's worth the Eagles pick, and say one of our comp 4ths- that's franchise qb territory. A guy with a 12 year borderline HOF career. Excuse me if I don't see that yet in Jimmy the two start wonder.
That's more than what the Steelers lucked into when they selected Ben with the #11 pick. So I won't be upset if gee wiz Jimmy turns out that good. I want top 10 performance for a top 10 price. Anything less than than that is an assorted flavor of FAIL. Dear Sashi and Depodesta evaluate this limited resume guy very carefully before you pull the trigger on a trade that has the potential to set this franchise back another three years. Might cost you your jobs.
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The Bradford deal set an awful precedent, but it just illustrates what a team will do to stabilize this position. To me, this situation is SLIGHTLY different than others because the Vikings lost their starting QB very close to the start of the season, and they thought they were a QB away from being a contender. We know now that they were wrong. Their offense was anemic, they lacked any big play potential, and they suffered nasty injuries to their RB and OL. They were zero fun to watch, and they basically tried to march the ball down the field with a bevy of 3 yard passes.
That deal hasn't worked out, but there are others that have, right? Look at what Alex Smith has accomplished in K.C. Weren't they like 2-14 before getting Smith and Andy Reid? What's their record since both of those guys got there? And there are people on this board that wouldn't want Alex Smith? He's not Aaron Rodgers by a long shot, but the guy can freaking play. I would love to see Garoppolo in Cleveland, but it's a huge risk, as we all know. We know we have to try SOMETHING, so is J.G. a better option than somebody like Mitch or Kizer? What if we can get J.G. for a second round pick? Then we'd have our two first rounders, plus our other 2nd rounder. So maybe we get Myles Garrett, Jamal Adams (safety from LSU), and Pocic from LSU (center), and then Garoppolo in the first two days of the draft? We give up a second rounder, and probably a 4th, but we have a stud pass rusher, safety, OL (who can play center and guard), and our potential QB. Of course, this all hinges on the deal for J.G. going down for a second round pick instead of a first, but whatever. Maybe we throw in Josh Gordon in the deal, and then Gordon goes to the Pats like Randy Moss did, and proceeds to blow the league up.
I keep hearing talk from Joe Thomas and others that indicates RG III will be coming back, and we shouldn't be surprised to see him back with our team.....starting. I guess I'll believe that when I see it, but Hue really does seem to think he can play. With RG III's injury history AND his inability to get rid of the ball, we obviously can't rely solely on him. Suffice to say, the Browns QB watch will be in full swing...yet again...and your guess is as good as mine to what takes place. Hue Jackson wants us to "trust him", and right now...I don't see any great options.
The Bradford deal set an awful precedent, but it just illustrates what a team will do to stabilize this position. To me, this situation is SLIGHTLY different than others because the Vikings lost their starting QB very close to the start of the season, and they thought they were a QB away from being a contender. We know now that they were wrong. Their offense was anemic, they lacked any big play potential, and they suffered nasty injuries to their RB and OL. They were zero fun to watch, and they basically tried to march the ball down the field with a bevy of 3 yard passes.
That deal hasn't worked out, but there are others that have, right? Look at what Alex Smith has accomplished in K.C. Weren't they like 2-14 before getting Smith and Andy Reid? What's their record since both of those guys got there? And there are people on this board that wouldn't want Alex Smith? He's not Aaron Rodgers by a long shot, but the guy can freaking play. I would love to see Garoppolo in Cleveland, but it's a huge risk, as we all know. We know we have to try SOMETHING, so is J.G. a better option than somebody like Mitch or Kizer? What if we can get J.G. for a second round pick? Then we'd have our two first rounders, plus our other 2nd rounder. So maybe we get Myles Garrett, Jamal Adams (safety from LSU), and Pocic from LSU (center), and then Garoppolo in the first two days of the draft? We give up a second rounder, and probably a 4th, but we have a stud pass rusher, safety, OL (who can play center and guard), and our potential QB. Of course, this all hinges on the deal for J.G. going down for a second round pick instead of a first, but whatever. Maybe we throw in Josh Gordon in the deal, and then Gordon goes to the Pats like Randy Moss did, and proceeds to blow the league up.
I keep hearing talk from Joe Thomas and others that indicates RG III will be coming back, and we shouldn't be surprised to see him back with our team.....starting. I guess I'll believe that when I see it, but Hue really does seem to think he can play. With RG III's injury history AND his inability to get rid of the ball, we obviously can't rely solely on him. Suffice to say, the Browns QB watch will be in full swing...yet again...and your guess is as good as mine to what takes place. Hue Jackson wants us to "trust him", and right now...I don't see any great options.
Thank you for injecting some common sense into this thread. RE: what the Vikings gave up, no quarterback we can draft or trade for will make the 2017 Browns a contender. I doubt even Brady or Rodgers could do that, considering our current talent level.
I'm afraid if Hue brings Griffin back and starts him- I may have to tune out next year. If Hue is of that mindset- whey even bother with the Garropolo conversation?
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Well, I think Hue may want RG III back, but also understand he can't place all of his eggs in that basket. That's the reason for the conversation. It's a shame that RG III's injury took so much of the season away from him because as much as I hate to admit it...he's actually gotten better each week. Pryor comes down with that deep bomb before half, and RG III's numbers look insanely better. That pass, and the ATROCIOUS lob he threw to Hawkins. God I was screaming after he threw Hawkins out of bounds in the end zone. We need to draft a young QB, or trade for someone like Garoppolo. And when I say draft a QB, I mean take one early. Not another "Kessler" type. We have a lot of needs all over the roster, but we have to keep throwing darts at the board until somebody sticks. Look at it this way: Wouldn't it be great if we draft Mitch, Kizer, or even Watson in the first, bring back RG III, and have the rookie learn behind Robert before throwing him into the fire?
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Wtf has garrapolo done to warrant a 1st and a 4th
That would be a great deal for the Patriots.
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Not much, but he's still done more than anybody coming out of college. Man, I hope we get this right. The more I think about it, the less and less I think this will happen. I think we'll poke around a bit, but we won't give up assets. I think we'll draft somebody early in the draft, with the hope they can learn behind RG III.
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I don't think that learning from the past is a foolish thought process.
Yes, each player has to be evaluated separately and not JUST because of others in their position before them....but it just seems that every other freakin year the talking heads want to anoint the current Patriots backup QB as the next great thing.
JG was a VERY late 2nd round pick....has done very little...and talking heads are now putting a 1st round PLUS grade on him.
...and I DO agree that until you have a real franchise type starting QB you should always be looking at ways to get one. As I like to say, you've gotta keep swinging the bat until you hit one out when it comes to the QB. But ya can't be swinging at 'high & outside'.
I never liked Mallet or Hoyer (you here don't know that cos I wasn't at this forum then). Hoyer did better than I expected. JG, I don't have a good feel for. Haven't seen enough of him. I would proceed with caution.
^^^^^ This.
Yes ,, and I want a Manning/Roethlisberger type.. Not 2nd rate QB's.. I want someone defenses fear.. Smith and Dalton don't strike fear in anyone...
They do have to be accounted for, But I want something better.
Zombo said:
2nd Rate is better than the 5th Rate we throw out there.
If a Manning pops up, let me know, I'll jump on that train.
Zombo
I'm with Nickers- so great Garropolo pumper, get your crystal ball out and tell me what you think Jimmy's ceiling is. It had damn well better be higher than Ryan Tannehill's. That's your classic second tier. If you think he's worth the Eagles pick, and say one of our comp 4ths- that's franchise qb territory. A guy with a 12 year borderline HOF career. Excuse me if I don't see that yet in Jimmy the two start wonder.
That's more than what the Steelers lucked into when they selected Ben with the #11 pick. So I won't be upset if gee wiz Jimmy turns out that good. I want top 10 performance for a top 10 price. Anything less than than that is an assorted flavor of FAIL. Dear Sashi and Depodesta evaluate this limited resume guy very carefully before you pull the trigger on a trade that has the potential to set this franchise back another three years. Might cost you your jobs.
^^^^^ This.
They do have to be accounted for, But I want something better.
I'm with Nickers- so great Garropolo pumper, get your crystal ball out and tell me what you think Jimmy's ceiling is. It had damn well better be higher than Ryan Tannehill's. That's your classic second tier. If you think he's worth the Eagles pick, and say one of our comp 4ths- that's franchise qb territory. A guy with a 12 year borderline HOF career. Excuse me if I don't see that yet in Jimmy the two start wonder.
That's more than what the Steelers lucked into when they selected Ben with the #11 pick. So I won't be upset if gee wiz Jimmy turns out that good. I want top 10 performance for a top 10 price. Anything less than than that is an assorted flavor of FAIL. Dear Sashi and Depodesta evaluate this limited resume guy very carefully before you pull the trigger on a trade that has the potential to set this franchise back another three years. Might cost you your jobs.
We need a starting QB. If he is in the Dalton/Smith range, it is worth it in my opinion. If he's a "12 year Borderline HOF" then you can thank me later.
I'm not a scout. I like what I see from the guy.
It's up to our personnel guys to evaluate whether he's a franchise QB, and whether he's a better prospect than the guys in this draft that will be available to us. I'll leave up to them.
I am saying two things definitively:
1. We need a starting QB and it is worth a first round pick to find a reliable one.
2. Not trading for this guy because you are afraid of being duped by Belichick is a defeatist attitude.
If you like him, go get him.
Zombo
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^^^^^ This.
They do have to be accounted for, But I want something better.
I'm with Nickers- so great Garropolo pumper, get your crystal ball out and tell me what you think Jimmy's ceiling is. It had damn well better be higher than Ryan Tannehill's. That's your classic second tier. If you think he's worth the Eagles pick, and say one of our comp 4ths- that's franchise qb territory. A guy with a 12 year borderline HOF career. Excuse me if I don't see that yet in Jimmy the two start wonder.
That's more than what the Steelers lucked into when they selected Ben with the #11 pick. So I won't be upset if gee wiz Jimmy turns out that good. I want top 10 performance for a top 10 price. Anything less than than that is an assorted flavor of FAIL. Dear Sashi and Depodesta evaluate this limited resume guy very carefully before you pull the trigger on a trade that has the potential to set this franchise back another three years. Might cost you your jobs.
We need a starting QB. If he is in the Dalton/Smith range, it is worth it in my opinion. If he's a "12 year Borderline HOF" then you can thank me later.
I'm not a scout. I like what I see from the guy.
It's up to our personnel guys to evaluate whether he's a franchise QB, and whether he's a better prospect than the guys in this draft that will be available to us. I'll leave up to them.
I am saying two things definitively:
1. We need a starting QB and it is worth a first round pick to find a reliable one.
2. Not trading for this guy because you are afraid of being duped by Belichick is a defeatist attitude.
If you like him, go get him.
Zombo
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Wtf has garrapolo done to warrant a 1st and a 4th
That would be a great deal for the Patriots.
-
^^^^^ This.
They do have to be accounted for, But I want something better.
I'm with Nickers- so great Garropolo pumper, get your crystal ball out and tell me what you think Jimmy's ceiling is. It had damn well better be higher than Ryan Tannehill's. That's your classic second tier. If you think he's worth the Eagles pick, and say one of our comp 4ths- that's franchise qb territory. A guy with a 12 year borderline HOF career. Excuse me if I don't see that yet in Jimmy the two start wonder.
That's more than what the Steelers lucked into when they selected Ben with the #11 pick. So I won't be upset if gee wiz Jimmy turns out that good. I want top 10 performance for a top 10 price. Anything less than than that is an assorted flavor of FAIL. Dear Sashi and Depodesta evaluate this limited resume guy very carefully before you pull the trigger on a trade that has the potential to set this franchise back another three years. Might cost you your jobs.
We need a starting QB. If he is in the Dalton/Smith range, it is worth it in my opinion. If he's a "12 year Borderline HOF" then you can thank me later.
I'm not a scout. I like what I see from the guy.
It's up to our personnel guys to evaluate whether he's a franchise QB, and whether he's a better prospect than the guys in this draft that will be available to us. I'll leave up to them.
I am saying two things definitively:
1. We need a starting QB and it is worth a first round pick to find a reliable one.
2. Not trading for this guy because you are afraid of being duped by Belichick is a defeatist attitude.
If you like him, go get him.
Zombo
Zombo said:
We need a starting QB. If he is in the Dalton/Smith range, it is worth it in my opinion. If he's a "12 year Borderline HOF" then you can thank me later.
I'm not a scout. I like what I see from the guy.
It's up to our personnel guys to evaluate whether he's a franchise QB, and whether he's a better prospect than the guys in this draft that will be available to us. I'll leave up to them.
I am saying two things definitively:
1. We need a starting QB and it is worth a first round pick to find a reliable one.
2. Not trading for this guy because you are afraid of being duped by Belichick is a defeatist attitude.
If you like him, go get him.
Zombo
Settling and mortgaging your future for a "so-so" QB like JG is being totally defeatist..
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
If Garrapolo played for anyone but NE would he even be talked about? Let's give a first and a fourth up for Tom Savage instead, he looked ok second half at the weekend. BAFFLING
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Zombo said:
We need a starting QB. If he is in the Dalton/Smith range, it is worth it in my opinion. If he's a "12 year Borderline HOF" then you can thank me later.
I'm not a scout. I like what I see from the guy.
It's up to our personnel guys to evaluate whether he's a franchise QB, and whether he's a better prospect than the guys in this draft that will be available to us. I'll leave up to them.
I am saying two things definitively:
1. We need a starting QB and it is worth a first round pick to find a reliable one.
2. Not trading for this guy because you are afraid of being duped by Belichick is a defeatist attitude.
If you like him, go get him.
Zombo
Settling and mortgaging your future for a "so-so" QB like JG is being totally defeatist..
Settling and mortgaging your future for a "so-so" QB like JG is being totally defeatist..
It's not morgaging your future....you're trading an extra 1st round pick for a guy who looks to be a pretty good NFL QB in his limited experience. He has more experience than any of the gay QB's y'all are talking about taking in the 1st round so that already puts him ahead. The Rams mortgaged their future for a dimwit QB. The Vikings did the same. Trading an extra 1st rounder for a guy who has looked to be pretty good is not the same thing.
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Wtf has garrapolo done to warrant a 1st and a 4th
That would be a great deal for the Patriots.
-
Wtf has garrapolo done to warrant a 1st and a 4th
That would be a great deal for the Patriots.
Wtf has garrapolo done to warrant a 1st and a 4th
That would be a great deal for the Patriots.
Indeed it would be, and you can thank the Vikings for setting the inflated price.
Not much, but he's still done more than anybody coming out of college. Man, I hope we get this right. The more I think about it, the less and less I think this will happen. I think we'll poke around a bit, but we won't give up assets. I think we'll draft somebody early in the draft, with the hope they can learn behind RG III.
Exactly. The Browns throw picks at this guy- it's counter to the "we're building through the draft" strategy.
Zombo said:
We need a starting QB. If he is in the Dalton/Smith range, it is worth it in my opinion. If he's a "12 year Borderline HOF" then you can thank me later.
I'm not a scout. I like what I see from the guy.
It's up to our personnel guys to evaluate whether he's a franchise QB, and whether he's a better prospect than the guys in this draft that will be available to us. I'll leave up to them.
I am saying two things definitively:
1. We need a starting QB and it is worth a first round pick to find a reliable one.
2. Not trading for this guy because you are afraid of being duped by Belichick is a defeatist attitude.
If you like him, go get him.
Zombo
Of course we need an upgrade over RG III, who's arguing that? MHO is you're barking up the wrong tree. If if JG is Alex Smith good OK. Smith was a #1 overall pick who took a few years to find his groove. Dalton does not elevate the play around him. Look no farther than this year when the Bungle Brainless trust let all his wr depth take a hike. Mike "Cheapskate" Brown at his finest.
Sorry Z at least in regards to Jimmy G. Your value system is out of kilter. That first and fourth is what a desperate team with a playoff agenda shelled out for Sam Bradford. That isn't the Browns case at all. I'll let you go to pro football reference and compare their respective body of work. If you think it's comparable- you can start the Jimmy Garropolo Man Love Club, just like we had to deal with the Quinn homos. Good Lord Z, you're acting like the second coming of Brett Favre is about to be auctioned off to the highest bidder.
You want a value comparison? We gave up a third for Jamie Collins, a genuine, porcupine, certified Pro Bowl linebacker. But the essentially unproven backup quarterback Garropolo is somehow worth way more than that? Kindly get real. Bill got him for a second round pick- we'll give you that back in exchange. We could cover our bet by throwing in some pick escalators based on how well he does- happy now? Throw in a conditional 2018 second on top of it.
If Garrapolo played for anyone but NE would he even be talked about? Let's give a first and a fourth up for Tom Savage instead, he looked ok second half at the weekend. BAFFLING
Z just can't believe it- but it's mighty dangerous to be giving up serious picks on a limited body of work. Instead maybe we should draft four quarterbacks in the fourth round 2017, and hope we can pull another Dak Prescott out of our ass.
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our top pick of the second round is kinda like a first rounder......
that I would do for him....
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Well for once I would say to the FO-"Stick to the fucking plan!"
That does not mean trade away the future.
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