Nativity scene found in ancient egyptian rock painting..

Clevfan4life

@diehardbrownsfan said:
I can run 10 miles and damn sure don't need 02. I think you need Psychiatric help trannny!

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/001/779/hnnnnng.jpg

DieHardBrownsFan

Clevfan4life

Dont bring tony into this u dirty moulinyan

Clevfan4life

Im italian, he's only for other wops

MLD Woody

@oldbrownsfan said:

For we walk by critical thinking faith not by sight. II Cor. 5:7

See, this right here, your post, is what I am talking about. You're actively saying "I don't need critical thinking, I have faith." You see no issue with that? Really?

And when an elected official thinks like that, one that can affect my life, it's not a good feeling. You're actively choosing to be ignorant because that makes it easier to believe your religion.

I just don't understand how you CAN'T see an issue with that.

Clevfan4life

Put it in reverse and have an atheist in power who imposes atheistic beleifs on us....see what happens

OldBrownsFan

@mld-woody said:

See, this right here, your post, is what I am talking about. You're actively saying "I don't need critical thinking, I have faith." You see no issue with that? Really?

And when an elected official thinks like that, one that can affect my life, it's not a good feeling. You're actively choosing to be ignorant because that makes it easier to believe your religion.

I just don't understand how you CAN'T see an issue with that.

Let me see about some critical thinking. Man's wisdom creates laws to punish those who would commit murder yet they allow murder of a baby inside a womb by abortion? A person could hit a pregnant woman in the stomach and cause her to lose her baby and get charged with murder yet the same woman could kill the baby by having an abortion and that is not murder? I'm sticking with thou shall not commit murder which includes babies in the womb.

tiamat63

@clevfan4life said:
Put it in reverse and have an atheist in power who imposes atheistic beleifs on us....see what happens

That's an oxymoron. There are no beliefs for an atheist to impose upon another.

tiamat63

@oldbrownsfan said:

Let me see about some critical thinking. Man's wisdom creates laws to punish those who would commit murder yet they allow murder of a baby inside a womb by abortion? A person could hit a pregnant woman in the stomach and cause her to lose her baby and get charged with murder yet the same woman could kill the baby by having an abortion and that is not murder? I'm sticking with thou shall not commit murder which includes babies in the womb.

What about the whole beating your slave with a rod, but it's cool if he/she dies because they're your property?

edit: After all, have to keep in line with the commandments. Which are OT, by the way.

jbluhm86

@tiamat63 said:

What about the whole beating your slave with a rod, but it's cool if he/she dies because they're your property?

edit: After all, have to keep in line with the commandments. Which are OT, by the way.

Well, obviously, that's the Old Testament, which doesn't count. You know, until it does.

Clevfan4life

@tiamat63 said:

What about the whole beating your slave with a rod, but it's cool if he/she dies because they're your property?

edit: After all, have to keep in line with the commandments. Which are OT, by the way.

good point. So lemme rephrase...if an Atheist imposed his non beleifs in the form of not allowing others to impose their beliefs. Better?

OldBrownsFan

@tiamat63 said:

What about the whole beating your slave with a rod, but it's cool if he/she dies because they're your property?

edit: After all, have to keep in line with the commandments. Which are OT, by the way.

The Judeo-Christian Values of America

Judeo-Christian Values have a foundational role in America, beginning with the Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..."

Our Founding Fathers separated church from state, but they wisely did not separate God from state; they acknowledged God as the source of our rights, and, in fact, they were careful to place Biblical morality directly into our founding documents and laws, and into our values and culture precisely to help prevent a future of totalitarian or tyrannical rule in America. The combination of keeping Judeo-Christian religious morality in the state, as opposed to the church it's self; and, additionally, setting up our laws based on reason and common sense has contributed to the American Character, and to what is known as "American Exceptionalism."

Our Founding Fathers were religious in a new way, the Judeo-Christian way, and they were the liberals of their day by deducing that our political and human rights come from a power higher than human government; but they were conservative to Biblical morality. There was and still is a connection between God and Liberty; He is the author of it.

In Judeo-Christian America one finds the idea of equality before God and the law, but not government forced economic equality. Modern European culture has stressed the value of economic equality rather than Liberty, and their governments unjustly enforce the principle. This has led to the failed European inventions of Socialism and Communism. Socialists in America have been lured into this failed European idea of social justice. Socialism is a failure in that it unjustly suppresses human creativity by excessively taxing away its rewards, and by foolishly giving economic reward to many who, even though mentally and physically able, fail to honor their Divine privilege and duty to work creatively.

Thus, Socialism is a dual insult to God-given creativity. Communism was much worse in that it also dishonored the sacredness of human life and liberty. Communism was the inevitable result of separating not just church from state, but God from state. Communism dishonored God's gifts of Life, Liberty and Creativity. European cultures have historical ties to authoritarian and totalitarian systems dating back to the Roman Empire. Even European Christianity was, for a time, contaminated by its links to authoritarian rule.

American Judeo-Christian Culture, on the other hand, has been linked to honoring Life, Liberty and Creativity from the outset; deriving its wisdom from the lights of reason, common sense, and both the Hebrew Bible and New Testament Christian Bible. Thomas Jefferson and the great majority of our Founding Fathers explicitly put God into the national life of the United States, by putting the Creator into the Declaration of Independence. It is important that American Liberty has something to do with God; that is something for students to know and discuss, even if they are not particularly religious. This does not represent some form of tyranny of the religious majority or an injustice; it was in fact the wisdom of our Founding Fathers to stand in opposition to tyranny and injustice by acknowledging the source of our rights -- those rights originating from God rather than from King George III, or for that matter from the Soviet or Chinese Politburo, or a courthouse, or a legislature.

America is a melting pot of diverse people including Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and Atheists; and from the Judeo-Christian perspective, all are made in God's image. We have in America a multiethnic society, and that is good. What would be unhealthy for America would be for it to become Balkanized, something likely to happen with the atrophy of Judeo-Christian American Culture and Values. Worse yet would be for America to adopt the toxic values which exist in some parts of the world and which are endemic in some foreign cultures. The values of Fascism, Nazism, Communism or Totalitarian Islamic Sharia Law for example must never metastasize into our American Culture, rooted in Judeo-Christian values. These values have been with us from the beginning and they have made us strong and successful. These Judeo- Christian Values should be kept central to the American Spirit and Culture even as we have become more multi-ethnic.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2007/09/the_judeochristian_values_of_a.html

One Post

He won't read it obf. He'll just want to argue the negative because that's what he is. No different than Woody, Cleve or What's his face.

OldBrownsFan

@clevfan4life said:

good point. So lemme rephrase...if an Atheist imposed his non beleifs in the form of not allowing others to impose their beliefs. Better?

We don't elect kings we elect presidents who are confined to only the powers given to them by our constitution. So don't sweat it. No one person will be imposing anything...thanks to the wisdom of the founders of the country.

tiamat63

"One said:
He won't read it obf. He'll just want to argue the negative because that's what he is. No different than Woody, Cleve or What's his face.

First off I won't read it because it's a wall of text that isn't OBF's own thoughts.

I'll glady accept a paragraph from himself and not the work of another. I'm asking his opinion afterall.

Oh, and... suck a cock. I'm not woody, Cleve or anyone else for that matter.

MLD Woody

@oldbrownsfan said:

Let me see about some critical thinking. Man's wisdom creates laws to punish those who would commit murder yet they allow murder of a baby inside a womb by abortion? A person could hit a pregnant woman in the stomach and cause her to lose her baby and get charged with murder yet the same woman could kill the baby by having an abortion and that is not murder? I'm sticking with thou shall not commit murder which includes babies in the womb.

Well that's one hell of a pivot. Ignoring the fact you just praised ignoring critical thinking for blind faith. Which is an awful thing to do.

OldBrownsFan

@mld-woody said:

Well that's one hell of a pivot. Ignoring the fact you just praised ignoring critical thinking for blind faith. Which is an awful thing to do.

The bible is full of wisdom that I would be happy to see any political leader be guided by. It is not a math or science book. 2 plus 2 will always be 4. As usual you are going to extremes. The example I used was about murder. It is always wrong and condemned as wrong in the bible but man in his wisdom has made exceptions for babies in the womb. NOw man's wisdom makes no logical sense that a person can be charged with murder for punching a pregnant woman in the stomach causing her to lose a baby however the same woman could have went and aborted murdered the baby legally. So it is not murder if she chooses to murder the baby?

OldBrownsFan

@tiamat63 said:

First off I won't read it because it's a wall of text that isn't OBF's own thoughts.

I'll glady accept a paragraph from himself and not the work of another. I'm asking his opinion afterall.

OBF is humble and will gladly post (copy and paste) the thoughts of others when they say it better than I could.

MLD Woody

@oldbrownsfan said:

The bible is full of wisdom that I would be happy to see any political leader be guided by. It is not a math or science book. 2 plus 2 will always be 4. As usual you are going to extremes. The example I used was about murder. It is always wrong and condemned as wrong in the bible but man in his wisdom has made exceptions for babies in the womb. NOw man's wisdom makes no logical sense that a person can be charged with murder for punching a pregnant woman in the stomach causing her to lose a baby however the same woman could have went and ~~aborted~~ murdered the baby legally. So it is not murder if she chooses to murder the baby?

I'm the one talking extremes but you pivoted the argument to murdering babies.... Alright.

Look, you straight up said blind faith comes before critical thinking. I think that's insane. Anything you see after that point is just irrelevant.

OldBrownsFan

@mld-woody said:

I'm the one talking extremes but you pivoted the argument to murdering babies.... Alright.

Look, you straight up said blind faith comes before critical thinking. I think that's insane. Anything you see after that point is just irrelevant.

I said we walk by faith not by sight. I will take the wisdom of God over the wisdom and reasoning of man. That is scriptural:

2 Corinthians 10:5New International Version (NIV)

⁵We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Question: "What does it mean to take every thought captive (2 Corinthians 10:5)?"

Answer: In speaking of our spiritual warfare, Paul says that we take every thought captive and subject all thinking to Christ Jesus. Here are the apostle’s words: “We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ” (2 Corinthians 10:5).

The primary point in this section of 2 Corinthians is that we are in a spiritual warfare. What leads up to the statement that we take every thought captive is important. In verse 3 Paul states that though we walk in the flesh we do not war after the flesh. That is, we do not rely on human ingenuity or manmade plans to bring the victory. The flesh is powerless against the wiles of the devil. In verse 4 Paul mentions the “strongholds” or the “fortresses” that are destroyed by God’s power. These strongholds are the philosophies, arguments, and “proud opinions” mentioned in verse 5.

Without question, there are many human thoughts that need to be taken captive. Numerous ungodly philosophies hold people in bondage, and those spiritual “fortresses” need to be demolished. The systems of thought that war against us are “arrogant obstacles” (NET), “lofty opinions” (ESV), and “sophisticated arguments and every exalted and proud thing” (AMP) that prevent people from knowing God. In our day, these systems of human thought include the theory of evolution, secular humanism, existentialism, the cults, the occult, and false religions. How many people are held captive by the idea that they are the products of chance in a godless universe? How many spiritual prisoners labor under the requirements of Allah and await freedom in Christ? We must take captive every thought and make it obedient to Christ. “If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed” (John 8:36).

False religion and secular philosophy have created thinking that has imprisoned the minds of millions. It is a true spiritual battle: “The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God” (2 Corinthians 4:4). Any idea, opinion, or worldview that asserts that Christ is unnecessary is reflective of the devil’s pride. Such thoughts must be taken captive and made obedient to Christ. Those who know the truth must confront error with the weapon we’ve been given, the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God (Ephesians 6:17).

Our weapons in the spiritual battle are not carnal but mighty through God. As we are transformed by the renewing of our minds (Romans 12:2), we engage the battle against pretense and arrogant philosophy in the world. Trusting Christ and rightly dividing the Word of God (2 Timothy 2:15), we take every thought captive, pull down the strongholds, and, by the grace of God, set the captives free.