Why we need a QB in Top 5
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Some belong in the top 5 and some dont, Gip....
Just because a guy is the top QB in his class....that does not automatically make him a top 5 pick.....
Lots of history to back that up too.....
Trubisky is no where NEAR the type of prospect that Manning, Aikman & Elway were.....not even close....
Just ask Blake Bortles, EJ Manuel, Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Ryan Leaf, David Carr, RGIII and the rest of the cant miss crowd.....
And, Trubisky is not rated as high as most of these guys were.....he just isnt
Some belong in the top 5 and some dont, Gip....
Just because a guy is the top QB in his class....that does not automatically make him a top 5 pick.....
Lots of history to back that up too.....
Trubisky is no where NEAR the type of prospect that Manning, Aikman & Elway were.....not even close....
Just ask Blake Bortles, EJ Manuel, Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Ryan Leaf, David Carr, RGIII and the rest of the cant miss crowd.....
And, Trubisky is not rated as high as most of these guys were.....he just isnt
The question isn't whether he is highly rated as 3 of the best QBs of all time. The question is, is he a franchise QB. Maybe needs to sit a year but if you believe he is a franchise caliber QB then you draft him, if you don't then take the best non-QB player available. Because next year if they do improve, you won't get your pick of the QBs.
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Some belong in the top 5 and some dont, Gip....
Just because a guy is the top QB in his class....that does not automatically make him a top 5 pick.....
Lots of history to back that up too.....
Trubisky is no where NEAR the type of prospect that Manning, Aikman & Elway were.....not even close....
Just ask Blake Bortles, EJ Manuel, Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Ryan Leaf, David Carr, RGIII and the rest of the cant miss crowd.....
And, Trubisky is not rated as high as most of these guys were.....he just isnt
The question isn't whether he is highly rated as 3 of the best QBs of all time. The question is, is he a franchise QB. Maybe needs to sit a year but if you believe he is a franchise caliber QB then you draft him, if you don't then take the best non-QB player available. Because next year if they do improve, you won't get your pick of the QBs.
right....anyone who lived through the Couch years should know "why" this isnt the time to pick a QB high.....
Until this FO figures out how to build a solid foundation and the importance of winning in the trenches, it's pointless to add random skill players....ala 1st round WR's and a project QB.....who will fail miserably.....or get hurt....or not develop because they have no chance to....
We need IMPACT players....not projects.....(and we have a shit ton of projects, btw....drafted 14 of em just last year).....and we will draft a bunch more with our many many middling picks this year.....lets use the few good picks on KNOWN good players....
Get 2 dominant lines and see where that takes ya.....(hint....a lot further than an avg WR and QB project will)
The question isn't whether he is highly rated as 3 of the best QBs of all time. The question is, is he a franchise QB. Maybe needs to sit a year but if you believe he is a franchise caliber QB then you draft him, if you don't then take the best non-QB player available. Because next year if they do improve, you won't get your pick of the QBs.
If you read Gips posts(which I was replying to), he is clearly saying that.....if we draft Trubisky at #1, then the odds say he'll be a star....and I say BS....
And I agree.....IF you think he's a franchise QB, then pick him.....I just dont see that he is.....and dont think the consensus see's that either.....just think we are QB desperate and he is the top rated one, so people are ready to over pay and hope.....
and, this year, I dont want to do that.....at least with a prospect not rated to be there......I rather over pay and hope on a top 5 player, instead of a top 20 player(with a very limited resume)
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Some belong in the top 5 and some dont, Gip....
Just because a guy is the top QB in his class....that does not automatically make him a top 5 pick.....
Lots of history to back that up too.....
Trubisky is no where NEAR the type of prospect that Manning, Aikman & Elway were.....not even close....
Just ask Blake Bortles, EJ Manuel, Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Ryan Leaf, David Carr, RGIII and the rest of the cant miss crowd.....
And, Trubisky is not rated as high as most of these guys were.....he just isnt
Some belong in the top 5 and some dont, Gip....
Just because a guy is the top QB in his class....that does not automatically make him a top 5 pick.....
Lots of history to back that up too.....
Trubisky is no where NEAR the type of prospect that Manning, Aikman & Elway were.....not even close....
Well, OK, those are probably 3 of the Top 10 QBs in football history. So, he ranks just outside the Top 10.
Just ask Blake Bortles, EJ Manuel, Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Ryan Leaf, David Carr, RGIII and the rest of the cant miss crowd.....
And, Trubisky is not rated as high as most of these guys were.....he just isnt
Not rated as high? Maybe.....but will be better......I put him in the Aaron Rodgers class. Maybe we can get him at #24 like Rodgers.
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Some belong in the top 5 and some dont, Gip....
Just because a guy is the top QB in his class....that does not automatically make him a top 5 pick.....
Lots of history to back that up too.....
Trubisky is no where NEAR the type of prospect that Manning, Aikman & Elway were.....not even close....
Just ask Blake Bortles, EJ Manuel, Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Ryan Leaf, David Carr, RGIII and the rest of the cant miss crowd.....
And, Trubisky is not rated as high as most of these guys were.....he just isnt
Exactly... That's why you don't pick one this year. Build the defense, go with Kessler or whoever and worry about QB next year. Kizer might be the only one I'd consider this year.
Exactly... That's why you don't pick one this year. Build the defense, go with Kessler or whoever and worry about QB next year. Kizer might be the only one I'd consider this year.
No, fucking hell no. Seriously? As a Browns fan you want to endure another year of quarterback hell? Not I.
I DO want that defense built up, yes. But that is why the Browns made the trades they did: to get a QB and to build their defense.
What do we have? another 12-14 picks?
How about making some of these high picks we have used in the past on defense pay off in addition to drafting a couple more (DBs)? Ogbah, Shelton, Orchard, Nassib, Cooper. All top 3 round picks no?
How about signing a real free agent or two to help the defense?
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right....anyone who lived through the Couch years should know "why" this isnt the time to pick a QB high.....
Until this FO figures out how to build a solid foundation and the importance of winning in the trenches, it's pointless to add random skill players....ala 1st round WR's and a project QB.....who will fail miserably.....or get hurt....or not develop because they have no chance to....
We need IMPACT players....not projects.....(and we have a shit ton of projects, btw....drafted 14 of em just last year).....and we will draft a bunch more with our many many middling picks this year.....lets use the few good picks on KNOWN good players....
Get 2 dominant lines and see where that takes ya.....(hint....a lot further than an avg WR and QB project will)
The question isn't whether he is highly rated as 3 of the best QBs of all time. The question is, is he a franchise QB. Maybe needs to sit a year but if you believe he is a franchise caliber QB then you draft him, if you don't then take the best non-QB player available. Because next year if they do improve, you won't get your pick of the QBs.
If you read Gips posts(which I was replying to), he is clearly saying that.....if we draft Trubisky at #1, then the odds say he'll be a star....and I say BS....
And I agree.....IF you think he's a franchise QB, then pick him.....I just dont see that he is.....and dont think the consensus see's that either.....just think we are QB desperate and he is the top rated one, so people are ready to over pay and hope.....
and, this year, I dont want to do that.....at least with a prospect not rated to be there......I rather over pay and hope on a top 5 player, instead of a top 20 player(with a very limited resume)
And I agree.....IF you think he's a franchise QB, then pick him.....I just dont see that he is.....and dont think the consensus see's that either.....just think we are QB desperate and he is the top rated one, so people are ready to over pay and hope.....
and, this year, I dont want to do that.....at least with a prospect not rated to be there......I rather over pay and hope on a top 5 player, instead of a top 20 player(with a very limited resume)
I know Brian Billick is a hated name around here, but he's a smart football guy. Something I've heard him say, "Need is a terrible evaluator of talent". We do need a QB, but we can't let that need over value a QB because that doesn't help anything. I watched a lot of the 2nd half of Triblowski's game and wasn't impressed.
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Gip, let me ask you this. You don't want to endure another year of QB hell, but you want to bring in a top 5 pick that clearly won't be ready to be an immediate contributor?
I trust you see the contradiction in your argument here..?
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Exactly... That's why you don't pick one this year. Build the defense, go with Kessler or whoever and worry about QB next year. Kizer might be the only one I'd consider this year.
No, fucking hell no. Seriously? As a Browns fan you want to endure another year of quarterback hell? Not I.
I DO want that defense built up, yes. But that is why the Browns made the trades they did: to get a QB and to build their defense.
What do we have? another 12-14 picks?
How about making some of these high picks we have used in the past on defense pay off in addition to drafting a couple more (DBs)? Ogbah, Shelton, Orchard, Nassib, Cooper. All top 3 round picks no?
How about signing a real free agent or two to help the defense?
No, fucking hell no. Seriously? As a Browns fan you want to endure another year of quarterback hell? Not I.
I DO want that defense built up, yes. But that is why the Browns made the trades they did: to get a QB and to build their defense.
What do we have? another 12-14 picks?
How about making some of these high picks we have used in the past on defense pay off in addition to drafting a couple more (DBs)? Ogbah, Shelton, Orchard, Nassib, Cooper. All top 3 round picks no?
How about signing a real free agent or two to help the defense?
And what if we take Triblowski #1 overall and he turns out to be David Carr? You're still in QB hell and you wasted a chance to get a defensive monster because you over valued a QB because we need one. There isn't a QB worth the #1 overall pick. Figure out the guy on defense who will be a stud and take him. Certailny looks to me like Bosa is better than both QB's taken at ahead of him.
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If you read Gips posts(which I was replying to), he is clearly saying that.....if we draft Trubisky at #1, then the odds say he'll be a star....and I say BS....
That is right, BS....as is you don't know shit from Shinola as to whether he will be a star or not. Fact is, he has as equal chance of being one as not.
And I agree.....IF you think he's a franchise QB, then pick him.....I just dont see that he is..
Well, that is where we disagree. People didn't think Aaron Rodgers would be a franchise QB...waited till #24 to take him...including the Browns....how does that look? Like a fucking shit stupid move, that is how that looks.
...and dont think the consensus see's that either.....just think we are QB desperate and he is the top rated one, so people are ready to over pay and hope.....
Well, the Browns are QB desperate....that is why you go and get one.
and, this year, I dont want to do that.....at least with a prospect not rated to be there......I rather over pay and hope on a top 5 player, instead of a top 20 player(with a very limited resume)
Or, I would rather take a Top #1 player......and that is what we need. The point of this thread is that by far the greatest QBs of all time were most top, top draft picks.
So, we have the top pick for the first time in 15 years.......go get a motherfucking quaterback.
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Where is the Trubisky is not rated high coming from? Look at the mocks he is in the top 3 of most and top 6 of every mock I have found. Kiper has him as the top QB in this class. I just don't get where some of you say he is not rated high?
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No, fucking hell no. Seriously? As a Browns fan you want to endure another year of quarterback hell? Not I.
I DO want that defense built up, yes. But that is why the Browns made the trades they did: to get a QB and to build their defense.
What do we have? another 12-14 picks?
How about making some of these high picks we have used in the past on defense pay off in addition to drafting a couple more (DBs)? Ogbah, Shelton, Orchard, Nassib, Cooper. All top 3 round picks no?
How about signing a real free agent or two to help the defense?
And what if we take Triblowski #1 overall and he turns out to be David Carr? You're still in QB hell and you wasted a chance to get a defensive monster because you over valued a QB because we need one. There isn't a QB worth the #1 overall pick. Figure out the guy on defense who will be a stud and take him. Certailny looks to me like Bosa is better than both QB's taken at ahead of him.
And what if we take Triblowski #1 overall and he turns out to be David Carr? You're still in QB hell and you wasted a chance to get a defensive monster because you over valued a QB because we need one. There isn't a QB worth the #1 overall pick. Figure out the guy on defense who will be a stud and take him. Certailny looks to me like Bosa is better than both QB's taken at ahead of him.
and if garrett turns out to be another courtney brown, where are we then?
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Where is the Trubisky is not rated high coming from? Look at the mocks he is in the top 3 of most and top 6 of every mock I have found. Kiper has him as the top QB in this class. I just don't get where some of you say he is not rated high?
Where is the Trubisky is not rated high coming from? Look at the mocks he is in the top 3 of most and top 6 of every mock I have found. Kiper has him as the top QB in this class. I just don't get where some of you say he is not rated high?
I believe it's comparing the ratings to QB's in other drafts.
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And what if we take Triblowski #1 overall and he turns out to be David Carr? You're still in QB hell and you wasted a chance to get a defensive monster because you over valued a QB because we need one. There isn't a QB worth the #1 overall pick. Figure out the guy on defense who will be a stud and take him. Certailny looks to me like Bosa is better than both QB's taken at ahead of him.
and if garrett turns out to be another courtney brown, where are we then?
and if garrett turns out to be another courtney brown, where are we then?
still looking for a QB clearly. There's examples of busts at every position. Much more often with the QB's however.
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And I agree.....IF you think he's a franchise QB, then pick him.....I just dont see that he is.....and dont think the consensus see's that either.....just think we are QB desperate and he is the top rated one, so people are ready to over pay and hope.....
and, this year, I dont want to do that.....at least with a prospect not rated to be there......I rather over pay and hope on a top 5 player, instead of a top 20 player(with a very limited resume)
I know Brian Billick is a hated name around here, but he's a smart football guy. Something I've heard him say, "Need is a terrible evaluator of talent". We do need a QB, but we can't let that need over value a QB because that doesn't help anything. I watched a lot of the 2nd half of Triblowski's game and wasn't impressed.
I know Brian Billick is a hated name around here, but he's a smart football guy. Something I've heard him say, "Need is a terrible evaluator of talent". We do need a QB, but we can't let that need over value a QB because that doesn't help anything. I watched a lot of the 2nd half of Triblowski's game and wasn't impressed.
Well, if we shouldn't draft for what we need...then why don't we take a Left Tackle....or a Left guard.
This team needs everything. Every pick we make will likely be for need. So we may as well draft for need.
Fact is.....we probably DO need an edge rusher and a couple of quality DBs more than we need a QB. So, lets not draft them either?
Championships are made by: A. Great QBs, B. Great defenses. We've got to work on both, sure. But....we need ONE QB....and about 5 defensive players. Get the one guy...then work on the rest.
Get MT at #1....then LB/DB/DL at #12.....and the same at #33...and an OC at #45.
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right...we can all site examples of failures till we are blue in the face....and we can all agree that ANY pick is a gamble and there are no guarantees....no matter who you pick....
But...I would say this....each draft there is a handful of truly "blue chip" players.....usually just a couple or a few.....and these players are your "best bet".....and if you can get a blue chip player, you do it....period
And if you pass on a blue chip player, just to fill a need, then you are making a grave error(which we have done over and over)...
And....I think if we are looking at the 2017 draft class, there are less than 5 blue chips.....and none of them are named Trubisky.....
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Where is the Trubisky is not rated high coming from? Look at the mocks he is in the top 3 of most and top 6 of every mock I have found. Kiper has him as the top QB in this class. I just don't get where some of you say he is not rated high?
I believe it's comparing the ratings to QB's in other drafts.
I believe it's comparing the ratings to QB's in other drafts.
He Kiper, or he, me? I think Trubisky is a better prospect than any QB that came out last year. At least equal to Mariota\Bortles as a prospect. Maybe not Winston....or Luck...but anyone but in the last 3-4 years.
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And what if we take Triblowski #1 overall and he turns out to be David Carr? You're still in QB hell and you wasted a chance to get a defensive monster because you over valued a QB because we need one. There isn't a QB worth the #1 overall pick. Figure out the guy on defense who will be a stud and take him. Certailny looks to me like Bosa is better than both QB's taken at ahead of him.
and if garrett turns out to be another courtney brown, where are we then?
I was gonna say basically the same thing.and if garrett turns out to be another courtney brown, where are we then?
Through the years I've seen many so called DL monsters that were supposed to eat QB's and shit running backs.
There's been busts on both sides of the line...there are no sure fire picks.
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He Kiper, or he, me? I think Trubisky is a better prospect than any QB that came out last year. At least equal to Mariota\Bortles as a prospect. Maybe not Winston....or Luck...but anyone but in the last 3-4 years.
Blake Bortles? He sucks.....if hes equal to that stiff we shouldn't draft him till at least the 5th round. Mariotta is 100 times the QB that Bortles is. It's an insult to Mariotta to put him in the same class as Bortles.
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right...we can all site examples of failures till we are blue in the face....and we can all agree that ANY pick is a gamble and there are no guarantees....no matter who you pick....
But...I would say this....each draft there is a handful of truly "blue chip" players.....usually just a couple or a few.....and these players are your "best bet".....and if you can get a blue chip player, you do it....period
And if you pass on a blue chip player, just to fill a need, then you are making a grave error(which we have done over and over)...
And....I think if we are looking at the 2017 draft class, there are less than 5 blue chips.....and none of them are named Trubisky.....
right...we can all site examples of failures till we are blue in the face....and we can all agree that ANY pick is a gamble and there are no guarantees....no matter who you pick....
But...I would say this....each draft there is a handful of truly "blue chip" players.....usually just a couple or a few.....and these players are your "best bet".....and if you can get a blue chip player, you do it....period
And if you pass on a blue chip player, just to fill a need, then you are making a grave error(which we have done over and over)...
And....I think if we are looking at the 2017 draft class, there are less than 5 blue chips.....and none of them are named Trubisky.....
Again....you don't know shit about whether MT is a blue chip player. I say you are dead wrong and he is a blue chipper....far more than the HGH factory of Alabama players.
And we are not passing on any of these blue chippers to fill a need....we are taking a blue chipper to fill a need.
I wanted to fill a need last year....and advocated for Bosa. How did our NOT drafting to fill a need work out there. I wanted Khalil Mack, but we traded down to take Gilbert. How did our not drafting to fill an need there work.
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He Kiper, or he, me? I think Trubisky is a better prospect than any QB that came out last year. At least equal to Mariota\Bortles as a prospect. Maybe not Winston....or Luck...but anyone but in the last 3-4 years.
Blake Bortles? He sucks.....if hes equal to that stiff we shouldn't draft him till at least the 5th round. Mariotta is 100 times the QB that Bortles is. It's an insult to Mariotta to put him in the same class as Bortles.
Blake Bortles? He sucks.....if hes equal to that stiff we shouldn't draft him till at least the 5th round. Mariotta is 100 times the QB that Bortles is. It's an insult to Mariotta to put him in the same class as Bortles.
I understand....but what I am saying is that Bortles coming out was a highly rated draft prospect about equal to Mariota.
Bortles has not live up to his prospect rating.
And sure....MT certainly, like every other player drafted, may not live up to my expectations of him.
But so may anyone else we choose, be it a DB (Gilbert)...or a Courtney Brown or a Gerard Warren or many others.
And yes, the Browns record of drafting QBs is absolutlely dismal.
But does that mean we should quit? I think not.
I didn't win the lottery last time I played. That does not mean that I won't try again.
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