Why we need a QB in Top 5
-
He Kiper, or he, me? I think Trubisky is a better prospect than any QB that came out last year. At least equal to Mariota\Bortles as a prospect. Maybe not Winston....or Luck...but anyone but in the last 3-4 years.
Blake Bortles? He sucks.....if hes equal to that stiff we shouldn't draft him till at least the 5th round. Mariotta is 100 times the QB that Bortles is. It's an insult to Mariotta to put him in the same class as Bortles.
-
right...we can all site examples of failures till we are blue in the face....and we can all agree that ANY pick is a gamble and there are no guarantees....no matter who you pick....
But...I would say this....each draft there is a handful of truly "blue chip" players.....usually just a couple or a few.....and these players are your "best bet".....and if you can get a blue chip player, you do it....period
And if you pass on a blue chip player, just to fill a need, then you are making a grave error(which we have done over and over)...
And....I think if we are looking at the 2017 draft class, there are less than 5 blue chips.....and none of them are named Trubisky.....
right...we can all site examples of failures till we are blue in the face....and we can all agree that ANY pick is a gamble and there are no guarantees....no matter who you pick....
But...I would say this....each draft there is a handful of truly "blue chip" players.....usually just a couple or a few.....and these players are your "best bet".....and if you can get a blue chip player, you do it....period
And if you pass on a blue chip player, just to fill a need, then you are making a grave error(which we have done over and over)...
And....I think if we are looking at the 2017 draft class, there are less than 5 blue chips.....and none of them are named Trubisky.....
Again....you don't know shit about whether MT is a blue chip player. I say you are dead wrong and he is a blue chipper....far more than the HGH factory of Alabama players.
And we are not passing on any of these blue chippers to fill a need....we are taking a blue chipper to fill a need.
I wanted to fill a need last year....and advocated for Bosa. How did our NOT drafting to fill a need work out there. I wanted Khalil Mack, but we traded down to take Gilbert. How did our not drafting to fill an need there work.
-
He Kiper, or he, me? I think Trubisky is a better prospect than any QB that came out last year. At least equal to Mariota\Bortles as a prospect. Maybe not Winston....or Luck...but anyone but in the last 3-4 years.
Blake Bortles? He sucks.....if hes equal to that stiff we shouldn't draft him till at least the 5th round. Mariotta is 100 times the QB that Bortles is. It's an insult to Mariotta to put him in the same class as Bortles.
Blake Bortles? He sucks.....if hes equal to that stiff we shouldn't draft him till at least the 5th round. Mariotta is 100 times the QB that Bortles is. It's an insult to Mariotta to put him in the same class as Bortles.
I understand....but what I am saying is that Bortles coming out was a highly rated draft prospect about equal to Mariota.
Bortles has not live up to his prospect rating.
And sure....MT certainly, like every other player drafted, may not live up to my expectations of him.
But so may anyone else we choose, be it a DB (Gilbert)...or a Courtney Brown or a Gerard Warren or many others.
And yes, the Browns record of drafting QBs is absolutlely dismal.
But does that mean we should quit? I think not.
I didn't win the lottery last time I played. That does not mean that I won't try again.
-
That's what Jax said when they drafted Blake shoots blanks.
If it's a year where the right one exists there - I'd be more inclined to agree with your line of thinking Gipper. Who could you make a case for this year? And why?
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Great post.. I was a bit surprised not to see Billy Kilmer on the list.. But I kind of understand why... He was probably more flash in the pan like Vince Ferragamo
Great post.. I was a bit surprised not to see Billy Kilmer on the list.. But I kind of understand why... He was probably more flash in the pan like Vince Ferragamo
Kilmer top 50 all time? I think not.
On that list they have Drew Bledsoe. Not sure he fits. If he does, should not Vinny Testaverde be on it. Vinny is in like Top Ten in nearly every passing category (including career Ints.).
These lists also vastly overrate more recent QBs. You don't see Arnie Herber. All he did was win like 3-4 titles with the Packers.
Or...how about Frank Ryan? He has one of the best passing yard per completions and TD pct. figures in NFL history...yet no love for him.
-
That's what Jax said when they drafted Blake shoots blanks.
If it's a year where the right one exists there - I'd be more inclined to agree with your line of thinking Gipper. Who could you make a case for this year? And why?
That's what Jax said when they drafted Blake shoots blanks.
If it's a year where the right one exists there - I'd be more inclined to agree with your line of thinking Gipper. Who could you make a case for this year? And why?
He's making the case for 1 year college starter Triblowski. I imagine mostly because he's from Cleveland (Mentor HS). I saw the bowl game and he isn't ready for primetime. Can't take a guy #1 overall if he's gonna sit on the bench waiting. We are still in QB hell drafting him.
-
That's what Jax said when they drafted Blake shoots blanks.
If it's a year where the right one exists there - I'd be more inclined to agree with your line of thinking Gipper. Who could you make a case for this year? And why?
He's making the case for 1 year college starter Triblowski. I imagine mostly because he's from Cleveland (Mentor HS). I saw the bowl game and he isn't ready for primetime. Can't take a guy #1 overall if he's gonna sit on the bench waiting. We are still in QB hell drafting him.
Using your logic Mark, did you happen to see Garrett in his bowl game?He's making the case for 1 year college starter Triblowski. I imagine mostly because he's from Cleveland (Mentor HS). I saw the bowl game and he isn't ready for primetime. Can't take a guy #1 overall if he's gonna sit on the bench waiting. We are still in QB hell drafting him.
Not very impressive if you asked me.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Using your logic Mark, did you happen to see Garrett in his bowl game?He's making the case for 1 year college starter Triblowski. I imagine mostly because he's from Cleveland (Mentor HS). I saw the bowl game and he isn't ready for primetime. Can't take a guy #1 overall if he's gonna sit on the bench waiting. We are still in QB hell drafting him.
Not very impressive if you asked me.
Using your logic Mark, did you happen to see Garrett in his bowl game?
Not very impressive if you asked me.
I actually didn't see that game but I saw him earlier and wasn't impressed there either. Supposedly he was playing with some kind of ankle problem which is also a red flag. I think Allen from Alabama might be a better choice. I liked the DL from Tennessee too.
-
right...we can all site examples of failures till we are blue in the face....and we can all agree that ANY pick is a gamble and there are no guarantees....no matter who you pick....
But...I would say this....each draft there is a handful of truly "blue chip" players.....usually just a couple or a few.....and these players are your "best bet".....and if you can get a blue chip player, you do it....period
And if you pass on a blue chip player, just to fill a need, then you are making a grave error(which we have done over and over)...
And....I think if we are looking at the 2017 draft class, there are less than 5 blue chips.....and none of them are named Trubisky.....
Again....you don't know shit about whether MT is a blue chip player. I say you are dead wrong and he is a blue chipper....far more than the HGH factory of Alabama players.
And we are not passing on any of these blue chippers to fill a need....we are taking a blue chipper to fill a need.
I wanted to fill a need last year....and advocated for Bosa. How did our NOT drafting to fill a need work out there. I wanted Khalil Mack, but we traded down to take Gilbert. How did our not drafting to fill an need there work.
I wanted to fill a need last year....and advocated for Bosa. How did our NOT drafting to fill a need work out there. I wanted Khalil Mack, but we traded down to take Gilbert. How did our not drafting to fill an need there work.
Well....between you and me....last years draft made me want to puke.....still does, actually.....
And if we had selected the true blue chippers.....Elliot or Bosa.....we'd be liking those picks....
Had we selected the presumed "blue chip" qb's(neither of which I was intriqued with).....maybe not....
So.....if we follow your logic from last year , then Im all in......
But if we apply your logic from this year, to last years draft....eh.....not so much.....
-
If the Browns draft a QB at #1 I hope it's Mitch.
If the Browns decide to go D with the first pick, I hope it's Garrett.
Regardless of who they pick, they need to actually pick someone of NFL caliber in the first round.
This inability to hit on first round picks in the past has killed this franchise.
-
If the Browns draft a QB at #1 I hope it's Mitch.
If the Browns decide to go D with the first pick, I hope it's Garrett.
Regardless of who they pick, they need to actually pick someone of NFL caliber in the first round.
This inability to hit on first round picks in the past has killed this franchise.
If the Browns draft a QB at #1 I hope it's Mitch.
If the Browns decide to go D with the first pick, I hope it's Garrett.
Regardless of who they pick, they need to actually pick someone of NFL caliber in the first round.
This inability to hit on first round picks in the past has killed this franchise.
100% agree
-
Using your logic Mark, did you happen to see Garrett in his bowl game?He's making the case for 1 year college starter Triblowski. I imagine mostly because he's from Cleveland (Mentor HS). I saw the bowl game and he isn't ready for primetime. Can't take a guy #1 overall if he's gonna sit on the bench waiting. We are still in QB hell drafting him.
Not very impressive if you asked me.
Using your logic Mark, did you happen to see Garrett in his bowl game?
Not very impressive if you asked me.
I saw another game where he was jogging in pursuit but heavily protected with "the guy is injured" excuses.
I haven't seen enough of him to be fair; but my first impression of him is he doesn't look willing to be relentless like Von Miller. Then I read your conclusion of him in the Bowl Game.
I think we should go after Bama's Joe-nathan Allen with our first pick for a little sic em, sock em and sack em. Then, we can find the best Safety or LB at #12.
There's some good edge rushers in this draft
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
That's what Jax said when they drafted Blake shoots blanks.
If it's a year where the right one exists there - I'd be more inclined to agree with your line of thinking Gipper. Who could you make a case for this year? And why?
He's making the case for 1 year college starter Triblowski. I imagine mostly because he's from Cleveland (Mentor HS). I saw the bowl game and he isn't ready for primetime. Can't take a guy #1 overall if he's gonna sit on the bench waiting. We are still in QB hell drafting him.
He's making the case for 1 year college starter Triblowski. I imagine mostly because he's from Cleveland (Mentor HS). I saw the bowl game and he isn't ready for primetime. Can't take a guy #1 overall if he's gonna sit on the bench waiting. We are still in QB hell drafting him.
I am making the case purely on talent.
And, yes, you can take a guy who is to sit on the bench waiting....for a bit.
Dan Marino sat for like 5 games before starting his first year.
Elway sat for 6 games
Eli Manning sat for 7 games
McNabb for 4 games
Aikman for 5 games.
This year, Goff sat for 9 games
Matt Stafford sat for 6 games
Steve McNair sat for 12 games
Terry Bradshaw sat for 8 games.
Phil Rivers sat for 2 years
Then there was Rodgers.
Bernie sat for half a year.
Yes, I would expect him to sit for about a half year, no doubt.
-
Using your logic Mark, did you happen to see Garrett in his bowl game?
Not very impressive if you asked me.
I saw another game where he was jogging in pursuit but heavily protected with "the guy is injured" excuses.
I haven't seen enough of him to be fair; but my first impression of him is he doesn't look willing to be relentless like Von Miller. Then I read your conclusion of him in the Bowl Game.
I think we should go after Bama's Joe-nathan Allen with our first pick for a little sic em, sock em and sack em. Then, we can find the best Safety or LB at #12.
There's some good edge rushers in this draft
I saw another game where he was jogging in pursuit but heavily protected with "the guy is injured" excuses.
I haven't seen enough of him to be fair; but my first impression of him is he doesn't look willing to be relentless like Von Miller. Then I read your conclusion of him in the Bowl Game.
I think we should go after Bama's Joe-nathan Allen with our first pick for a little sic em, sock em and sack em. Then, we can find the best Safety or LB at #12.
There's some good edge rushers in this draft
That's what I think as well. Wonder if the dude from Tennessee will last till 12.
-
I wanted to fill a need last year....and advocated for Bosa. How did our NOT drafting to fill a need work out there. I wanted Khalil Mack, but we traded down to take Gilbert. How did our not drafting to fill an need there work.
Well....between you and me....last years draft made me want to puke.....still does, actually.....
And if we had selected the true blue chippers.....Elliot or Bosa.....we'd be liking those picks....
Had we selected the presumed "blue chip" qb's(neither of which I was intriqued with).....maybe not....
So.....if we follow your logic from last year , then Im all in......
But if we apply your logic from this year, to last years draft....eh.....not so much.....
Well....between you and me....last years draft made me want to puke.....still does, actually.....
And if we had selected the true blue chippers.....Elliot or Bosa.....we'd be liking those picks....
Had we selected the presumed "blue chip" qb's(neither of which I was intriqued with).....maybe not....
So.....if we follow your logic from last year , then Im all in......
But if we apply your logic from this year, to last years draft....eh.....not so much.....
My logic is that I want the Browns to draft what I think will be the best player available to them. The Browns didn't tank enough to take Winston....and they didn't take the guys I wanted them to take the last few years. (actually, no, I did want them to take Shelton and they did)
So...my logic is: take who I....the Gipper...think you should take.
-
right....anyone who lived through the Couch years should know "why" this isnt the time to pick a QB high.....
Until this FO figures out how to build a solid foundation and the importance of winning in the trenches, it's pointless to add random skill players....ala 1st round WR's and a project QB.....who will fail miserably.....or get hurt....or not develop because they have no chance to....
We need IMPACT players....not projects.....(and we have a shit ton of projects, btw....drafted 14 of em just last year).....and we will draft a bunch more with our many many middling picks this year.....lets use the few good picks on KNOWN good players....
Get 2 dominant lines and see where that takes ya.....(hint....a lot further than an avg WR and QB project will)
The question isn't whether he is highly rated as 3 of the best QBs of all time. The question is, is he a franchise QB. Maybe needs to sit a year but if you believe he is a franchise caliber QB then you draft him, if you don't then take the best non-QB player available. Because next year if they do improve, you won't get your pick of the QBs.
If you read Gips posts(which I was replying to), he is clearly saying that.....if we draft Trubisky at #1, then the odds say he'll be a star....and I say BS....
And I agree.....IF you think he's a franchise QB, then pick him.....I just dont see that he is.....and dont think the consensus see's that either.....just think we are QB desperate and he is the top rated one, so people are ready to over pay and hope.....
and, this year, I dont want to do that.....at least with a prospect not rated to be there......I rather over pay and hope on a top 5 player, instead of a top 20 player(with a very limited resume)
We need IMPACT players....not projects.....(and we have a shit ton of projects, btw....drafted 14 of em just last year).....and we will draft a bunch more with our many many middling picks this year.....lets use the few good picks on KNOWN good players....
Get 2 dominant lines and see where that takes ya.....(hint....a lot further than an avg WR and QB project will)
That sums up how I feel. I like Trubisky, but I'm not sure a guy with 15 collegiate starts is worth the top pick. I doubt he falls to #12 (our Eagles pick).
-
Using your logic Mark, did you happen to see Garrett in his bowl game?
Not very impressive if you asked me.
I saw another game where he was jogging in pursuit but heavily protected with "the guy is injured" excuses.
I haven't seen enough of him to be fair; but my first impression of him is he doesn't look willing to be relentless like Von Miller. Then I read your conclusion of him in the Bowl Game.
I think we should go after Bama's Joe-nathan Allen with our first pick for a little sic em, sock em and sack em. Then, we can find the best Safety or LB at #12.
There's some good edge rushers in this draft
I saw another game where he was jogging in pursuit but heavily protected with "the guy is injured" excuses.
I haven't seen enough of him to be fair; but my first impression of him is he doesn't look willing to be relentless like Von Miller. Then I read your conclusion of him in the Bowl Game.
I think we should go after Bama's Joe-nathan Allen with our first pick for a little sic em, sock em and sack em. Then, we can find the best Safety or LB at #12.
There's some good edge rushers in this draft
Why do I always get nervous about taking players from East Germany so high? (well....the answer is right there in my statement, isn't it)
-
I am not unmindful of the fact that like 50% of high QB picks may in fact bust out. Here is a list of the biggest draft busts at QBs.
These include only QBs drafted in the first 10 picks of the draft since 1960:
More or less in order of their career production:
1. Ryan Leaf 1998 Chargers #2
2. Akili Smith 1999 Bengals #2
3. Rich Campbell 1981 Packers #6
4. Kelly Stouffer 1988 Cards #6
5. Richie Lucas 1960 Redskins #4
6. Art Schlichter 1982 Colts #4
7. George Izo 1960 Cards #2 (Barberton HS)
8. Andre Ware 1990 Lions #7
9. Terry Baker 1963 Rams #1
10. Rick Norton 1966 Dolphins #2
11. Heath Shuler 1994 Redskins #3
12. Jamarcus Russell 2007 Raiders #1
13. Greg Cook 1969 Bengals #6
14. David Klingler 1992 Bengals #6
15. Todd Blackledge 1983 Chiefs #7 (N. Canton HS)
16. Matt Leinert 2006 Cards #10
17. Blain Gabbert 2011 Jags #10
18. Jack Thompson 1979 Bengals #3
19. Jake Locker 2011 Titans #8
20. Marty Domres 1969 Chargers #9
21. Pete Beatherd 1964 Lions #5
22. Jack Concannon 1964 Pats #1
23. Steve Spurrier 1967 49ers #3
24. Joey Harrington 2002 Lions #5
25. Rick Mirer 1993 Seahawks #2
Face it, the Browns could have done worse..... the Bengals have 4 QBs drafted here in the Top 10....all busts. The Lions have 3. the Cards 3.
-
Also, be reminded that for every OLB like Lawrence Taylor or Derrick Thomas that is drafted at OLB, there is a corresponding Aaron Curry, Ricky Hunly and Aundray Bruce.
And for every DE like Bruce Smith or Chris Doleman drafted, there is a Reggie Rogers or Vernon Gholston.
And for every Ronnie Lott, Deion Sanders or Rod or Charles Woodson drafted in the Top Ten, there is a Bruce Pickens, Leonard Coleman or Mossy Cade.
If the names are unfamiliar...well, its because they were defensive Top Ten pick busts.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login