Ray Horton out
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Don't entirely disagree, but did not want to waste the opportunity to cuss out Ghoolie before I exiled him...
I don't agree on the race thing. While it seems natural for a Black HC who has worked long and hard for his opportunities to want to extend a hand to others in his situation, no HC takes on a substandard coordinator just "because"... there's simply too much at stake.
I'm hard pressed to remember the other DC's not named O'Neil that were floating around at the time Hue assembled his staff, but I know our two(?) rumored candidates weren't among them. Even had our D played better than it did (although beyond better blitz schemes, I do not know how it would have) the two names being floated would be clear upgrades.
Plus while we're recalling reports... wasn't it just a couple weeks ago that a shouting match between Hue and Ray was being reported?
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Don't entirely disagree, but did not want to waste the opportunity to cuss out Ghoolie before I exiled him...
I don't agree on the race thing. While it seems natural for a Black HC who has worked long and hard for his opportunities to want to extend a hand to others in his situation, no HC takes on a substandard coordinator just "because"... there's simply too much at stake.
I'm hard pressed to remember the other DC's not named O'Neil that were floating around at the time Hue assembled his staff, but I know our two(?) rumored candidates weren't among them. Even had our D played better than it did (although beyond better blitz schemes, I do not know how it would have) the two names being floated would be clear upgrades.
Plus while we're recalling reports... wasn't it just a couple weeks ago that a shouting match between Hue and Ray was being reported?
Plus while we're recalling reports... wasn't it just a couple weeks ago that a shouting match between Hue and Ray was being reported?
oh no shit? is this verified?
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Horton is not fired...Yet. Greg Williams has till Monday to decide on the offer but Horty is still here. Awkward.
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Why pref for Wade?
Some is just bloodlines, but mostly track record. Hasn't gone anywhere that he hasn't resurrected the D. Sustain? Somewhat different matter, but most of his moving on has been when HCs are let go above him.
I also think his HC experience would be an asset to Hue.
Some is just bloodlines, but mostly track record. Hasn't gone anywhere that he hasn't resurrected the D. Sustain? Somewhat different matter, but most of his moving on has been when HCs are let go above him.
I also think his HC experience would be an asset to Hue.
I like Wade best too. That said, Greg Williams also has HC experience in Buffalo even if it's one he'd like to forget. With both buys, they're best wired to be DCs. I think Williams has SB experience as a DC in TN. I can't remember if he was also the DC of New Orleans when they won the SB; but there's a pretty resume for him on that side of the ball.
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Gregg Williams won't be much of an upgrade, if any, at points or yards given up. He had arguably the top DL in all of football this past season.. and just like in 2014, he was the #1 blitzer in all of football this past year as well. That's not "aggressive" -- that just gets you beat via draws and screens. We don't have the DB personnel that Arizona does to be top10 in points given up with their number of blitzes in 2016. Rams this past year blitzed 44% of the time with only 17 sacks.. not enough sacks, not enough INT..
My vote would go to Wade, but apparently the offer's already out to Gregg.
This will make Collins even better [he's ILB, not OLB] when he blitzes. Not a single sack in Collins’ career has come from anywhere besides up the middle.. so 4-3 will be better for him.
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I thoughtbthe rams lost most of that DL talent? Anyway, few years ago when they lostbtheir best pass rusher for half the season (long) they were still one if the best front 7's in football. Thats what i liked about that rams d, they had injuries throughout the defensive front and production didnt dip.
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oh no shit? is this verified?
.
I'm trying to... google coming up empty, but I know I read an account somewhere. I think it was in the Browns' reddit sub. Still looking, but it's harder to dredge up "threads" over there.
Horton is not fired...Yet. Greg Williams has till Monday to decide on the offer but Horty is still here. Awkward.
Awkward plus...
I like Wade best too. That said, Greg Williams also has HC experience in Buffalo even if it's one he'd like to forget. With both buys, they're best wired to be DCs. I think Williams has SB experience as a DC in TN. I can't remember if he was also the DC of New Orleans when they won the SB; but there's a pretty resume for him on that side of the ball.
That was Gregg as DC in NOLA's SB year. His D was 20th in points allowed and 25th in yards. But NO was geared to outscore opponents and #1 in both categories on Offense, so there was a lot of prevent D late in games.
Gregg's BUF HC gig was forgettable... as in I did not* remember him in that role for 3 years, but he did improve them from year one to year two (8-8) and his D was 15th in yards allowed. Career path shows a pretty meteoric rise with only 4 years at the DC level, all under Fisher in TN... in fact his whole NFL career prior to BUF was under Fisher.
________________________________
*Edited in an important excluded word...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I thoughtbthe rams lost most of that DL talent? Anyway, few years ago when they lostbtheir best pass rusher for half the season (long) they were still one if the best front 7's in football. Thats what i liked about that rams d, they had injuries throughout the defensive front and production didnt dip.
I thoughtbthe rams lost most of that DL talent?
You haven't heard of Aaron Donald? And Michael Brockers is good in his own right as the other DT. Also, Robert Quinn had 19 sacks.. naturally, the year before Williams took over.
FYI, all 3 of those were 1st-rd picks.
Rams DL was this year and will be for the foreseeable future the #1 DL in football.. perhaps not in production due to Williams but definitely in individual talent and payroll..
Note that Browns.com is reporting Hue did the firing of Horton -- leads me to think Hue pushed for that change.. So, it's not him losing control at all, rather him getting frustrated and making a move..
As well, apparently Williams was DC for 5 top-5 D's.. Tennessee (No. 1 in total defense in 2000), Buffalo (No. 3 in 2001 and No. 2 in 2003), Washington (No. 3 in 2005), and New Orleans (No. 4 in 2010)
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
oh no shit? is this verified?
.
I'm trying to... google coming up empty, but I know I read an account somewhere. I think it was in the Browns' reddit sub. Still looking, but it's harder to dredge up "threads" over there.
Horton is not fired...Yet. Greg Williams has till Monday to decide on the offer but Horty is still here. Awkward.
Awkward plus...
I like Wade best too. That said, Greg Williams also has HC experience in Buffalo even if it's one he'd like to forget. With both buys, they're best wired to be DCs. I think Williams has SB experience as a DC in TN. I can't remember if he was also the DC of New Orleans when they won the SB; but there's a pretty resume for him on that side of the ball.
That was Gregg as DC in NOLA's SB year. His D was 20th in points allowed and 25th in yards. But NO was geared to outscore opponents and #1 in both categories on Offense, so there was a lot of prevent D late in games.
Gregg's BUF HC gig was forgettable... as in I did not* remember him in that role for 3 years, but he did improve them from year one to year two (8-8) and his D was 15th in yards allowed. Career path shows a pretty meteoric rise with only 4 years at the DC level, all under Fisher in TN... in fact his whole NFL career prior to BUF was under Fisher.
________________________________
*Edited in an important excluded word...
.
I'm trying to... google coming up empty, but I know I read an account somewhere. I think it was in the Browns' reddit sub. Still looking, but it's harder to dredge up "threads" over there.
Awkward plus...
That was Gregg as DC in NOLA's SB year. His D was 20th in points allowed and 25th in yards. But NO was geared to outscore opponents and #1 in both categories on Offense, so there was a lot of prevent D late in games.
Gregg's BUF HC gig was forgettable... as in I did remember him in that role for 3 years, but he did improve them from year one to year two (8-8) and his D was 15th in yards allowed. Career path shows a pretty meteoric rise with only 4 years at the DC level, all under Fisher in TN... in fact his whole NFL career prior to BUF was under Fisher.
True; and if memory serves me right they did pretty well at forcing turnovers which is every bit as important. They've always scored a lot of points with Brees there; but he's often had to feel like Dan Fouts with do I need to QB us to 35-40 points in order to win every week? That changes when your defense forces turnovers and either shortens the field or scores.
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different players c'mon now. Von was a 4-3 olb'er when he first came to the NFL right?
4-3 DE in 2009. 3-4 OLB in 2010.
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different players c'mon now. Von was a 4-3 olb'er when he first came to the NFL right?
4-3 DE in 2009. 3-4 OLB in 2010.
4-3 DE in 2009. 3-4 OLB in 2010.
Ehhh u might be right i think i was mixing up him and mack there
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oh no shit? is this verified?
.
I'm trying to... google coming up empty, but I know I read an account somewhere. I think it was in the Browns' reddit sub. Still looking, but it's harder to dredge up "threads" over there.
Horton is not fired...Yet. Greg Williams has till Monday to decide on the offer but Horty is still here. Awkward.
Awkward plus...
I like Wade best too. That said, Greg Williams also has HC experience in Buffalo even if it's one he'd like to forget. With both buys, they're best wired to be DCs. I think Williams has SB experience as a DC in TN. I can't remember if he was also the DC of New Orleans when they won the SB; but there's a pretty resume for him on that side of the ball.
That was Gregg as DC in NOLA's SB year. His D was 20th in points allowed and 25th in yards. But NO was geared to outscore opponents and #1 in both categories on Offense, so there was a lot of prevent D late in games.
Gregg's BUF HC gig was forgettable... as in I did not* remember him in that role for 3 years, but he did improve them from year one to year two (8-8) and his D was 15th in yards allowed. Career path shows a pretty meteoric rise with only 4 years at the DC level, all under Fisher in TN... in fact his whole NFL career prior to BUF was under Fisher.
________________________________
*Edited in an important excluded word...
Gregg's BUF HC gig was forgettable... as in I did not* remember him in that role for 3 years, but he did improve them from year one to year two (8-8) and his D was 15th in yards allowed. Career path shows a pretty meteoric rise with only 4 years at the DC level, all under Fisher in TN... in fact his whole NFL career prior to BUF was under Fisher.
________________________________
*Edited in an important excluded word...
Clearing the record above... my memory is not that good.
Also did not flesh out the meteoric bit... was going for "rose too fast too soon with little breathe of experience" when a damn squirrel ran through my peripheral vision.
True; and if memory serves me right they did pretty well at forcing turnovers which is every bit as important. They've always scored a lot of points with Brees there; but he's often had to feel like Dan Fouts with do I need to QB us to 35-40 points in order to win every week? That changes when your defense forces turnovers and either shortens the field or scores.
I remember a very aggressive D in NOLA... one that used it to compensate for a lack of talent effectively. Not that they were talent-less, but did not include the household names of other contemporary Ds. Mr. Bountygate, Vilma was there... also Will Smith (R.I.P.)... with Sharper anchoring their 2ndary. Plus my old fav from the too-short, Mangenius era, Scott Fujita...
Just looked and NO posted 35 sacks and 39 TOs in '09... and needed the latter to eek out a +11 differential.
Maybe Brees is a gunslinger after all...
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Tour is right about a Huey v Horty dust-up. I forget what game but the headphones were ripped off in anger and words exchanged between HC and the D in general
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only the Browns could semi fire a DC. What's gonna happen if no one accepts the job? Hey Ray, ur back in baby!!!
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Hope someone accepts the position. We have a waterboy that plays madden?
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Dawgs By Nature @DawgsByNature 4m4 minutes ago
Dawgs By Nature@DawgsByNatureGregg Williams has reportedly accepted offer to become the #Browns’ defensive coordinator dawgsbynature.com/2017/1/7/14202…Gregg Williams has reportedly accepted offer to become the #Browns’ defensive coordinator
http://nfltraderumors.co/breaking-browns-hiring-gregg-williams-defensive-coordinator/
Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora 17m17 minutes ago
Jason La Canfora@JasonLaCanforaThe Browns have secured Gregg Williams to be their next defensive coordinator. Done deal. Wholesale changes coming to defensive staffThe Browns have secured Gregg Williams to be their next defensive coordinator. Done deal. Wholesale changes coming to defensive staff
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I thoughtbthe rams lost most of that DL talent?
You haven't heard of Aaron Donald? And Michael Brockers is good in his own right as the other DT. Also, Robert Quinn had 19 sacks.. naturally, the year before Williams took over.
FYI, all 3 of those were 1st-rd picks.
Rams DL was this year and will be for the foreseeable future the #1 DL in football.. perhaps not in production due to Williams but definitely in individual talent and payroll..
Note that Browns.com is reporting Hue did the firing of Horton -- leads me to think Hue pushed for that change.. So, it's not him losing control at all, rather him getting frustrated and making a move..
As well, apparently Williams was DC for 5 top-5 D's.. Tennessee (No. 1 in total defense in 2000), Buffalo (No. 3 in 2001 and No. 2 in 2003), Washington (No. 3 in 2005), and New Orleans (No. 4 in 2010)
As well, apparently Williams was DC for 5 top-5 D's.. Tennessee (No. 1 in total defense in 2000), Buffalo (No. 3 in 2001 and No. 2 in 2003), Washington (No. 3 in 2005), and New Orleans (No. 4 in 2010)
getting 3 out of 4 of these teams to play any kind of defense in top 5..Welcome aboard Gregg Williams!!
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