North Carolina QB Mitch Trubisky headed to NFL draft
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... and therefore since the Mocks know best...
And therein lies the rub... there comes a point in every players rise where you say, "that's too high, the risk is too great."
And that point is in no different place for Trubisky than it is for Garrett or Allen.
The ONLY difference is that he is a QB......and all the risks and rewards are admittedly greater for a QB than they are for DEs/OLBs.
I mean, look at the Browns history.
Most see the failure of Tim Couch to be a greater failure than that of Courtney Brown. Yet they were both #1 overall picks.
We just think that a failed high pick DE/OLB is much easier to replace, and much less devastating to the team than is a failed QB.
Happened for me with Tannehill when he popped into R1... ditto for Bortles when he hit top 15. I just haven't been able to get to Mitch at #1... but now that he's declared, we'll see.
And here you have mentioned a couple of underachieving high QB picks. Is a failed Bortles more devastating than a failed Dante Fowler?
Was a failed Jamarcus Russell more devastating than a failed Aaron Curry?
I think the answer is Yes....by virtue of the nature of the position.
But, you know, I don't think the Browns are in the position to take a chicken shit approach to this thing. "Well...lets take a DE, because if he fails, it won't be as bad as if our QB choice fails". That seems to be a lot of what I am hearing.
Chicken Shit.
But, you know, I don't think the Browns are in the position to take a chicken shit approach to this thing. "Well...lets take a DE, because if he fails, it won't be as bad as if our QB choice fails". That seems to be a lot of what I am hearing.
Chicken Shit.
As was mentioned- just taking a defensive player at #1 is no guarantee his going to live up to that lofty draft spot either. Here's a refresher from Wiki about a guy who got as much hype as Garrett is getting.
"Dan Wilkinson was regarded as "one of the four players who rank well above the others in this draft". In workouts prior to the draft, Wilkinson weighed in at 315 pounds, bench-pressed 225 pounds 34 times and ran a remarkably fast 40 in 4.72 seconds. "Wilkinson could be a once-in-10-years player," said Billy Devaney then the Chargers director of player personnel. Also described as "maybe the best defensive-line prospect since Reggie White (1985 draft)," Wilkinson drew a lot of interest from around the league. Several teams were willing to trade with the Bengals for the No. 1 draft pick, including the Patriots, who reportedly offered their first-round pick (4th overall), plus several players including offensive guard Eugene Chung (their first-round choice in 1992), and the Cardinals, who offered their pick plus running back Garrison Hearst (their 1993 first-rounder). Eventually, the Bengals decided to keep the pick,"
Really, if you have a qb bust at #12, is that any worse than having one bust at #1? We've had that cursed #22 "value" qb pick X3 put us in the dumpster for over 10 years. The Browns are in a different situation in that they have TWO first round picks this year. Just don't mess up on both of them. I disagree with you Gip in that I feel having Courtney "sure thing" Brown flop hurt just as badly as Couch not living up to his potential. BTW beat you to the chickenshit term in this thread.
Another Devil's advocate thing to think about- let's say Garrett or Allen do live up to JJ Watt standards. When they come off their rookie deals they're going to want cap busting Ndamukong Suh money. I'd rather see that $25 million a year go to our franchise qb.
Well what I'm saying is a Tannehill type. Average to above average starter. Honestly I would take someone with a similar level of play at #12.
LOL, when's the last time the Browns had a Tannehill level starter for multiple years? Bernie? Before that, Sipe? Remember DePodesta's ill advised comment? "We passed on Wentz because we didn't think he had top 15 qb potential." Tannehill was around 12th this year- depending on how you want to crunch the stats. He got the Fish to the playoffs- it's been so long, I have trouble remembering the details the last time the Browns got there. If you're convinced the guy is the QBOTF- you don't hesitate, you walk up to the podium and hand in the card #1 overall. Yeah- even with Garrett and Allen on the board.
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Yeah Z, like that old Prince song "Party like it's 1999". This is exactly the same vibe from back then, except we had a couple of years to scout the college talent pool. I was mostly wrong about Couch- but I pretty much haven't missed since. The Camps are heating up, the Trubisky Train officially entered the station, and is taking on passengers. It's gonna get pretty heated before April 27th rolls around.
The same could be said about Wentz this time last year, and damn few had watched any tape on Goff either. Different story this year considering RG IIIs suckage. BTW, MHO is Trubisky is at least as good a prospect as Wentz.
Then SI's opinion is full of it. I've watched all of the above, and I'll rank Mitch ahead of any of the others. Mahomes may not even get drafted in the first round- Some franchises are on record Watson is a third round prospect. BTW, there were questions about Carr in the 2014 draft too. Here's a re-do. Think the Texans just might trade Javedon Clowney for Carr right now straight up?
You're wimping out Stan. The Browns situation 2017 is not going to be remotely comparable to 1999 when we drafted Couch. I will be pissed as hell if the Browns pass on Mitch, and he goes on to have a stellar career with another team. It might be the final straw that will cause me to turn in my fan card. I watched the entire Packers- Giants game, and Gipper is dead on with his assessment. Not saying he IS, but- Mitch has a ton of traits similar to Rodgers. The pocket mobility- accuracy, arm strength. Sure he needs to sit and learn the Pro Game ,but who's to say the Browns won't give him that opportunity? Remember this quote from our new management team? "This team is being built for long term future success." The only way that has happened in recent NFL history is with a top level franchise qb. Take a look at the teams left in the playoffs- the Texans are the only outlier without a stud QB- and it could be argued they'd be sitting on the sidelines too, if Carr hadn't busted his leg.
Sure, as Brian Billick said it's dangerous to draft need over value. But, you hit on your franchise qb, you can draft for need for the next 12 or so years. Sure, guys like Garrett or Allen would have an immediate impact- but what happens when their rookie contracts are up and they pull a Ndamukong Suh on the Browns? For sure, we draft Mitch, he's not going anywhere else. Job #1 for the Browns is to have stability at the qb position, everything else is background noise. Want the dumpster fire song to keep rolling on? Love the idea of going into 2017 with Garrett and RG III @ qb? And up the win total to 4? I sure as hell don't want that scenario without a way better Plan B.
Mitch's Bitches
Gays for Garrett
Allen's Assholes
Debbie (Trade) Downers
Garappahomos
Are we missing anybody so far?
Zombo
Zombo said:
Mitch's Bitches
Gays for Garrett
Allen's Assholes
Debbie (Trade) Downers
Garappahomos
Are we missing anybody so far?
Zombo
I think I'm a Debbie Downer (again) this season.
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Yeah Z, like that old Prince song "Party like it's 1999". This is exactly the same vibe from back then, except we had a couple of years to scout the college talent pool. I was mostly wrong about Couch- but I pretty much haven't missed since. The Camps are heating up, the Trubisky Train officially entered the station, and is taking on passengers. It's gonna get pretty heated before April 27th rolls around.
The same could be said about Wentz this time last year, and damn few had watched any tape on Goff either. Different story this year considering RG IIIs suckage. BTW, MHO is Trubisky is at least as good a prospect as Wentz.
Then SI's opinion is full of it. I've watched all of the above, and I'll rank Mitch ahead of any of the others. Mahomes may not even get drafted in the first round- Some franchises are on record Watson is a third round prospect. BTW, there were questions about Carr in the 2014 draft too. Here's a re-do. Think the Texans just might trade Javedon Clowney for Carr right now straight up?
You're wimping out Stan. The Browns situation 2017 is not going to be remotely comparable to 1999 when we drafted Couch. I will be pissed as hell if the Browns pass on Mitch, and he goes on to have a stellar career with another team. It might be the final straw that will cause me to turn in my fan card. I watched the entire Packers- Giants game, and Gipper is dead on with his assessment. Not saying he IS, but- Mitch has a ton of traits similar to Rodgers. The pocket mobility- accuracy, arm strength. Sure he needs to sit and learn the Pro Game ,but who's to say the Browns won't give him that opportunity? Remember this quote from our new management team? "This team is being built for long term future success." The only way that has happened in recent NFL history is with a top level franchise qb. Take a look at the teams left in the playoffs- the Texans are the only outlier without a stud QB- and it could be argued they'd be sitting on the sidelines too, if Carr hadn't busted his leg.
Sure, as Brian Billick said it's dangerous to draft need over value. But, you hit on your franchise qb, you can draft for need for the next 12 or so years. Sure, guys like Garrett or Allen would have an immediate impact- but what happens when their rookie contracts are up and they pull a Ndamukong Suh on the Browns? For sure, we draft Mitch, he's not going anywhere else. Job #1 for the Browns is to have stability at the qb position, everything else is background noise. Want the dumpster fire song to keep rolling on? Love the idea of going into 2017 with Garrett and RG III @ qb? And up the win total to 4? I sure as hell don't want that scenario without a way better Plan B.
Mitch's Bitches
Gays for Garrett
Allen's Assholes
Debbie (Trade) Downers
Garappahomos
Are we missing anybody so far?
Zombo
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Mangum's Magnums ?
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Hooker's Hos.
Hooker's Pimps.
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@ghoolie said:
That's how you judge a prospect. How he does in big games. Quinn for instance failed in every big game he played in. Trubisky is the cream of the crop and he is worth #1 #1. If the Browns pass on this kid they will live to regret it.
I'm gonna agree on this. BUT Hue is coaching the senior bowl. Phil Sewage is inviting Watson...And not the IBM Watson. Hue will cream his panties over and over falling in love with Watson and talk the FO into picking him number one. That's just what the Browns always seem to do.
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Just wondering, since quarterbacks are usually overvalued rightly or wrongly what would have happened if for the last 12 years we had only drafted the BPA regardless of position?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
@ghoolie said:
That's how you judge a prospect. How he does in big games. Quinn for instance failed in every big game he played in. Trubisky is the cream of the crop and he is worth #1 #1. If the Browns pass on this kid they will live to regret it.
I'm gonna agree on this. BUT Hue is coaching the senior bowl. Phil Sewage is inviting Watson...And not the IBM Watson. Hue will cream his panties over and over falling in love with Watson and talk the FO into picking him number one. That's just what the Browns always seem to do.
I'm gonna agree on this. BUT Hue is coaching the senior bowl. Phil Sewage is inviting Watson...And not the IBM Watson. Hue will cream his panties over and over falling in love with Watson and talk the FO into picking him number one. That's just what the Browns always seem to do.
Honestly I think that with the firing of Horton and the hiring of Williams, the decision has already been made to fix this defense first. It's too close to becoming a great one not to pour those resources into exactly that. People want to see a lot more wins and that strategy will produce them quicker than some project at QB who gets hammered out of play by mid-season. This year has proven that we don't keep QB's healthy. And we just started using those defensive "chips" with our mid-season deal with NE. To me that was the handwriting on the wall which was predictive of the coaching move and likely the coming draft as well.
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I'm gonna agree on this. BUT Hue is coaching the senior bowl. Phil Sewage is inviting Watson...And not the IBM Watson. Hue will cream his panties over and over falling in love with Watson and talk the FO into picking him number one. That's just what the Browns always seem to do.
Honestly I think that with the firing of Horton and the hiring of Williams, the decision has already been made to fix this defense first. It's too close to becoming a great one not to pour those resources into exactly that. People want to see a lot more wins and that strategy will produce them quicker than some project at QB who gets hammered out of play by mid-season. This year has proven that we don't keep QB's healthy. And we just started using those defensive "chips" with our mid-season deal with NE. To me that was the handwriting on the wall which was predictive of the coaching move and likely the coming draft as well.
Honestly I think that with the firing of Horton and the hiring of Williams, the decision has already been made to fix this defense first. It's too close to becoming a great one not to pour those resources into exactly that. People want to see a lot more wins and that strategy will produce them quicker than some project at QB who gets hammered out of play by mid-season. This year has proven that we don't keep QB's healthy. And we just started using those defensive "chips" with our mid-season deal with NE. To me that was the handwriting on the wall which was predictive of the coaching move and likely the coming draft as well.
I can agree with them fixing the defense first, but after last nights game, and with all the talk about Trubisky, I feel more and more confident that they done take a QB at either #1 or #12 and spend 2-3 of the rest of the picks on defense. However I do feel if they go mostly defense in the first two rounds, they WILL have to sign at least 1-2 OL in FA.
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It's such a tough place to be in when you're the Browns. You're in position to draft a VERY highly rated edge rusher, a severe position of need, BUT...you're also in position to get whichever QB you prefer (THE position of need). Something tells me this will be an agonizing decision. It's further difficult because we didn't really make ANY progress in determining our QB last year. None.
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Another thing of note, I read that Watson is likely to be invited to the Senior Bowl. They changed the rules to allow 4 year juniors who who have graduated and declare for the draft early to take part. Even though Watson is only a 3 year player, he has graduated.
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Weren't you the one who was slobbin' on Paxton Lynch's knob in the months leading up to the draft last year? I heard he's really tearing it up in Denver this year, so it looks like the Browns missed out on another one of your sure-thing prospects.@ghoolie said:
That's how you judge a prospect. How he does in big games. Quinn for instance failed in every big game he played in. Trubisky is the cream of the crop and he is worth #1 #1. If the Browns pass on this kid they will live to regret it.
"That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence”. - Christopher Hitchens "The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you". - Neil deGrasse Tyson -
@ghoolie said:
That's how you judge a prospect. How he does in big games. Quinn for instance failed in every big game he played in. Trubisky is the cream of the crop and he is worth #1 #1. If the Browns pass on this kid they will live to regret it.
I'm gonna agree on this. BUT Hue is coaching the senior bowl. Phil Sewage is inviting Watson...And not the IBM Watson. Hue will cream his panties over and over falling in love with Watson and talk the FO into picking him number one. That's just what the Browns always seem to do.
I'm gonna agree on this. BUT Hue is coaching the senior bowl. Phil Sewage is inviting Watson...And not the IBM Watson. Hue will cream his panties over and over falling in love with Watson and talk the FO into picking him number one. That's just what the Browns always seem to do.
Ha, Savage getting retribution on the Browns for firing him. If they invite Watson, they should invite Mitch too, as he's graduated.
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It's such a tough place to be in when you're the Browns. You're in position to draft a VERY highly rated edge rusher, a severe position of need, BUT...you're also in position to get whichever QB you prefer (THE position of need). Something tells me this will be an agonizing decision. It's further difficult because we didn't really make ANY progress in determining our QB last year. None.
It's such a tough place to be in when you're the Browns. You're in position to draft a VERY highly rated edge rusher, a severe position of need, BUT...you're also in position to get whichever QB you prefer (THE position of need). Something tells me this will be an agonizing decision. It's further difficult because we didn't really make ANY progress in determining our QB last year. None.
Well, maybe it's splitting hairs by me but I do think they learned about the QB situation.
Kessler is a keeper, a decent backup with room to grow. McCown has worth but can't stay healthy, so I'd keep him on as a QB coach. Part ways with RG3 and draft a youngin'.
Which youngin'? I honestly don't know, so many QB prospects fail in the NFL. The FO needs to determine which QB is worthy in this draft, and pick him at #1. An edge rusher isn't going to put the Browns into the elite class. Watt & Clowney (I know they haven't been healthy) have lead the Texans to fantastic 9-7 seasons.
Yes, our D was a sieve most of the season. Remember though, Desmond Bryant is returning, Haden should be healthy, and they will seek help at safety. We all wanted Horton gone, and Williams should be an upgrade.
I'm favoring drafting for a better offense. Get the best QB and let's roll.
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It's such a tough place to be in when you're the Browns. You're in position to draft a VERY highly rated edge rusher, a severe position of need, BUT...you're also in position to get whichever QB you prefer (THE position of need). Something tells me this will be an agonizing decision. It's further difficult because we didn't really make ANY progress in determining our QB last year. None.
Well, maybe it's splitting hairs by me but I do think they learned about the QB situation.
Kessler is a keeper, a decent backup with room to grow. McCown has worth but can't stay healthy, so I'd keep him on as a QB coach. Part ways with RG3 and draft a youngin'.
Which youngin'? I honestly don't know, so many QB prospects fail in the NFL. The FO needs to determine which QB is worthy in this draft, and pick him at #1. An edge rusher isn't going to put the Browns into the elite class. Watt & Clowney (I know they haven't been healthy) have lead the Texans to fantastic 9-7 seasons.
Yes, our D was a sieve most of the season. Remember though, Desmond Bryant is returning, Haden should be healthy, and they will seek help at safety. We all wanted Horton gone, and Williams should be an upgrade.
I'm favoring drafting for a better offense. Get the best QB and let's roll.
Well, maybe it's splitting hairs by me but I do think they learned about the QB situation.
Kessler is a keeper, a decent backup with room to grow. McCown has worth but can't stay healthy, so I'd keep him on as a QB coach. Part ways with RG3 and draft a youngin'.
Which youngin'? I honestly don't know, so many QB prospects fail in the NFL. The FO needs to determine which QB is worthy in this draft, and pick him at #1. An edge rusher isn't going to put the Browns into the elite class. Watt & Clowney (I know they haven't been healthy) have lead the Texans to fantastic 9-7 seasons.
Yes, our D was a sieve most of the season. Remember though, Desmond Bryant is returning, Haden should be healthy, and they will seek help at safety. We all wanted Horton gone, and Williams should be an upgrade.
I'm favoring drafting for a better offense. Get the best QB and let's roll.
I fear "Haden will be healthy" is no longer something that has a positive impact.
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I'm gonna agree on this. BUT Hue is coaching the senior bowl. Phil Sewage is inviting Watson...And not the IBM Watson. Hue will cream his panties over and over falling in love with Watson and talk the FO into picking him number one. That's just what the Browns always seem to do.
Ha, Savage getting retribution on the Browns for firing him. If they invite Watson, they should invite Mitch too, as he's graduated.
Ha, Savage getting retribution on the Browns for firing him. If they invite Watson, they should invite Mitch too, as he's graduated.
I like Tru better if they take a QB. Getting Watson would be playing like a brown tho
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I'm gonna agree on this. BUT Hue is coaching the senior bowl. Phil Sewage is inviting Watson...And not the IBM Watson. Hue will cream his panties over and over falling in love with Watson and talk the FO into picking him number one. That's just what the Browns always seem to do.
Honestly I think that with the firing of Horton and the hiring of Williams, the decision has already been made to fix this defense first. It's too close to becoming a great one not to pour those resources into exactly that. People want to see a lot more wins and that strategy will produce them quicker than some project at QB who gets hammered out of play by mid-season. This year has proven that we don't keep QB's healthy. And we just started using those defensive "chips" with our mid-season deal with NE. To me that was the handwriting on the wall which was predictive of the coaching move and likely the coming draft as well.
Honestly I think that with the firing of Horton and the hiring of Williams, the decision has already been made to fix this defense first. It's too close to becoming a great one not to pour those resources into exactly that. People want to see a lot more wins and that strategy will produce them quicker than some project at QB who gets hammered out of play by mid-season. This year has proven that we don't keep QB's healthy. And we just started using those defensive "chips" with our mid-season deal with NE. To me that was the handwriting on the wall which was predictive of the coaching move and likely the coming draft as well.
I agree with Canton Mike's sig Don't know we'll see..... This shouldn't play into the direction the Browns take- but I have a feeling it will. The PR pull for taking the local kid is going to be intense. Can I be the street guy telling Haslam- "draft Mitch?" Got a feeling he won't be listening this time. Sure you miss out on Garrett or Allen if you take the qb @ #1, but you can do some serious defensive upgrading with the next three picks.
http://nflmocks.com/2017/01/09/cleveland-browns-mitch-trubisky-could-be-bernie-kosar-2-0/
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Just wondering, since quarterbacks are usually overvalued rightly or wrongly what would have happened if for the last 12 years we had only drafted the BPA regardless of position?
WSS
Just wondering, since quarterbacks are usually overvalued rightly or wrongly what would have happened if for the last 12 years we had only drafted the BPA regardless of position?
WSS
Well, of course, the hard part is trying to tell WHO is the BPA regardless of position. Each team makes their own evaluation of players talents.....and I am sure they keep that a closely guarded secret.
Let's face it, I seriously doubt that a GM would admit: "Well, we had Humbo Nooney rated as a better player.....but we took Tooney Lucas instead because we needed someone at that spot more".
(Steve....you like those references.?)
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Weren't you the one who was slobbin' on Paxton Lynch's knob in the months leading up to the draft last year? I heard he's really tearing it up in Denver this year, so it looks like the Browns missed out on another one of your sure-thing prospects.@ghoolie said:
That's how you judge a prospect. How he does in big games. Quinn for instance failed in every big game he played in. Trubisky is the cream of the crop and he is worth #1 #1. If the Browns pass on this kid they will live to regret it.
Weren't you the one who was slobbin' on Paxton Lynch's knob in the months leading up to the draft last year? I heard he's really tearing it up in Denver this year, so it looks like the Browns missed out on another one of your sure-thing prospects.
I wouldn't be closing the books on Paxton Lynch. He was a rookie and he did what rookies should basically do: sit and learn. He is just developing.
I am not saying he is certain to be great, I am only saying that it is far too early to judge him.
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Weren't you the one who was slobbin' on Paxton Lynch's knob in the months leading up to the draft last year? I heard he's really tearing it up in Denver this year, so it looks like the Browns missed out on another one of your sure-thing prospects.
I wouldn't be closing the books on Paxton Lynch. He was a rookie and he did what rookies should basically do: sit and learn. He is just developing.
I am not saying he is certain to be great, I am only saying that it is far too early to judge him.
I wouldn't be closing the books on Paxton Lynch. He was a rookie and he did what rookies should basically do: sit and learn. He is just developing.
I am not saying he is certain to be great, I am only saying that it is far too early to judge him.
Same thing I have been saying about Wentz all year. Everyone viewer and pundit has already proclaimed him the franchise QB, but it all really depends how he plays the next 2 seasons. I mean hell outside of like 5 games, he was didn't play well.
Ruining threads since 1897.
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