Chad Kelly Vrs Mitch Trubisky
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I'm hoping like Hell we go Defense with our first 2 picks. I've seen Trubisky play twice in his small body of work starting. I already posted I see why some guys really like him and pointed out the specifics I really liked such strong, accurate and consistently escapes trouble behind a suspect pass pro. Unfortunately, I see a lot of parallels to Tim Couch in the moral victories dept excusing both losses to drops and if he just had the right team around him. So what happened to Couch? He came here while McNabb went to the NFL team coming off the worst record. Couch received the same excuses here that he got at Kentucky vrs SEC Competition while McNabb turned an unforgiving hatred in the City of Brotherly Love over not drafting Ricky Williams into nothing but playoffs from about 2000-2010 inclusive of 5 NFC Championship Games and 1 exciting SB matchup with NE.
In 2002, we DID make the playoffs with a 9-7 record once our a bye week re-eval decided to take the offense off Couch's shoulders and onto the running game. Over the last 5-6 games of that season, William Green averaged over a 100 yards rushing per game while a considerable portion of our fan base began to favor Kelly Holcomb if memory serves me right here. The day we clinched a playoff spot beating a playoff bound Atlanta team - Couch left the game early with us behind. Holcomb came in and William Green ran for 164 yards to help us overcome the deficit. While I felt bad for Couch at times, he was a #1 overall pick which meant he was supposed to drive the franchise to greatness as opposed to being one of the passengers. I think our FO put the cleaning staff in charge of researching McNabb while Andy Reid remembered Favre played in a So Miss offense very similar to the Veer Option McNabb played in at SU. The difference between McNabb and Couch is one guy never ended up needing excuses while the other quickly made everyone around him instantly better. Again, Philly came off the worst record in the NFL so let's not pretend only 1 guy had challenges to overcome. This comes from the same guy who's very first post in cyberspace said "Couch just Makes Sense." I thought there was no other answer until hindsight 20/20 showed me otherwise. While Couch didn't suck - he never was the solution Philly found at #2 overall in 1999.
So? Sometimes you have to look at a QB prospect that transcended a major college program/tradition to elite like say a Bernie Kosar or an Andrew Luck or even a Joe Montana; or see why/how an Aaron Rodgers beats a much more talented USC team than his. Once upon a time, I saw Elway erase a 28 point halftime lead Ohio State had on an inferior Stanford team in a game that should have never ended in a tie. They did the same stuff at the next level. Even Poor Andrew Luck who has taken a suspect pass pro to a Conference Championship game already. I guess we can throw Peyton Manning in there since his excellence attracted enough recruits for UT to win the National Championship the first season after he went to the NFL. Keep in mind, Montana got stereotyped for arm strength, less than wonderful passing stats and style of offense so he fell to something like round 3 or 4 (paving the way for much lesser QBs to follow at ND to get drafted higher in the future - even one often hailed as "the most pro ready" of his draft class). As for SU, they stopped competing for 1st place in the Big East after McNabb left. Today, that football program is looking for a pulse in the ACC.
What happens when there doesn't appear to be an obvious franchise QB at #1 overall or one a QB that transcended a major college football program to excellence?
1) You can pretend there is one and reach...
2) You can get bullied into drafting a QB in round 1 even if a 1st round talent does not exist because that's what we're still being told we need to do. We've rinsed and repeated this one so often - it's hard to trust it again.
3) You can do enough film review and research to feel you SEE the right QB.
4) You can draft to make this an easier place to play QB for whatever QBs you already have + whatever QBs you draft later (ie; is there an easier place for a young guy to play QB than Dallas today?)
I just thought I'd share a look at the stats of the last FULL seasons Mitch Trubisky and Chad Kelly started. In doing so, one has to understand Chad Kelly injured his ACL in 2016, which means he'll miss a lot of the pre-draft workouts without defenses hurrying throws against WRs not being defended by NFL corners with a bad pass pro hurrying throws even more so. Film can show show you a lot of that stuff better. Unfortunately, it can't replicate the level of complexity NFL defenses can confuse a rookie QB with during his new role of reading progressions in a faster league while he may not have very good pass pro or much help around him. Here's their stats in the final full.
Chad Kelly (2015)
298 of 458 for 4042 yds 65.1 cmp% 8.8 ypc 31 TD 13 INT 500 yds rushing 4.7 ypc 10 TD rushing
* Last SEC QB to beat Alabama (the last time Alabama won a National Championship). Like Cam Newton, he had to grow up after getting thrown out of his first college program at 18 years of age. Even though he led his team to over 30 points again in 2016 vrs Bama, they forced him into some bad decisions.
Mitch Trubisky (2016)
304 of 447 for 3748 yds 68.0 cmp% 8.4 ypc 30 TD 6 INT 308 yds rushing 3.3 ypc 5 TD rushing
* Fun kid to watch with hometown roots as close by as Mentor. Strong, accurate and eludes pressure consistently. Has to overcome locking onto his primary target as depicted in the pick 6 against Stanford
While I won't hate it if we draft Trubisky, I'm just not sold he's any better than Chad Kelly especially knowing Kelly will probably fall to a much later slot than Trubisky. That being the case, we can sure draft a lot of impact in that upper first round and even at the top of round 2 before we address the QB spot. We can draft 2 impactful studs on defense in round 1 and add Elfein at Center at the top of round 2 before we'd even have to draft Kelly. Looking at my multiple choice above - I choose #4. Wouldn't it be fun to defer a coin toss and actually stop an opponent from scoring 2 minutes into the game for whoever we start at QB for once?
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
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Mitch2Pryor said:
I'm not surprised the first negative reply comes from someone with a screen name honoring Trubisky.
I remembered the same type of pictures explaining how NFL teams early in round 1 needed to avoid Tunsil. So, someone got him way further down the pecking order of round 1. Understandable. Miami appeared to be pretty happy to make the playoffs with him being talented enough to start at a couple different positions on the line to accommodate injury. There was also Dak Prescott's drinking and driving for whatever team was willing to risk drafting him mid-late last year. Doesn't look like his taker failed especially in the bargain territory he was found. So today, Kelly is just another football player from one of these SEC Mississippi programs that could fall down to better bargain territory. In terms of risk vrs reward, he's just 1 mid round pick vrs how much we'd give up for a QB unproven outside of NE's utopian football environment.
Therefore, I'm not advocating for Kelly at #1 overall. Seems to me, most of the QBs we've drafted since 99 have been mistakes so our choice is to potentially make another mistake at #1 overall or take the risk later in the draft. For that matter, it doesn't even have to be Kelly at a later spot in the draft. It could be another QB. I just found a guy with a comparable skill set we would not have to use our 1st pick on. I'm sure there's other alternatives after round 1 in the draft like Dak Prescott was last year or Russell Wilson was a few years ago.
How many people on this board do you suppose got drunk or wasted when they were 18 or 19 years of age? Should that have meant they didn't deserve a career when they were 22 or 23 years of age? One of those kids in your picture hasn't even reached puberty making me question if this was way back in high school 4 or 5 years ago. Meanwhile, your picture doesn't show us if that's a cell phone or blunt behind the milk container. The founder of the Trubisky fan club repeatedly told me I needed to give Josh Gordon another chance to pass piss tests for 1 full year; so I'm sure he wouldn't have a panic attack if we only used 1 mid-late round pick on Kelly allotting us the opportunity to put other very important positions of need/BPA in place before him. If we get all of our early picks right in the process and we see progress in Kessler behind a better margin of error - the sting of being wrong on Kelly won't be that bad.
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I wouldn't touch the kid with a 10 foot pole. Besides the drug concerns, and general character concerns, he was also involved in an on field fight at a relatives football game AFTER he was out this season with an injury. He ran off the sideline and tried to punch a high school player. We don't need that kind of shit in the locker room, even as a UDFA.
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Who waited until they were 18 or 19?
Great write up, Flugs... I may have actually acquired an appreciation for your style... at least when you and I agree...
Chad is still my top, 2017 Darkhorse candidate. I figure with his injury he's no higher than a mid-Day 2 pick, so the risk is not too great, and as you showed the upside is there.
The problem? His was a two-fer knee injury... ACL plus meniscus. Can't find a timetable on his progress, but odds are he's an IR stash his rookie season. He certainly won't be flashing at the Combine or any Pro-day.
I did find:
Surgery was a success, rehabilitation will soon follow and Chad Kelly is expected to make a full recovery after suffering a torn ACL in his right knee. What awaits the former St. Joseph’s Collegiate Institute star and Ole Miss quarterback, whose college career abruptly ended Nov. 5?
It could turn into a multimillion-dollar question for Kelly, who four weeks into the season was rated No. 9 among college quarterbacks by Pro Football Focus. Whatever his draft stock, it undoubtedly plummeted when he limped off the field after throwing for 249 yards and three touchdowns against Georgia Southern.
Kelly’s knee was in the gifted hands of Dr. James Andrews, the renowned orthopedic surgeon who performed the operation this week. Remember, the quarterback came back after tearing the ACL in his left knee while playing in Clemson’s spring game in 2013.
“Basically, he’s doing very well,” Kelly’s father, Kevin, said Tuesday when reached by telephone. “He’s extremely sore. The doctor gave him a good report. He was looking at his bones and his muscles and was very impressed with how strong they are. He was very pleased to see how healthy his legs are.”
http://buffalonews.com/2016/11/15/buck-stops-kelly-hoping-road-recovery-leads-nfl/
As for the photo... it was taken after the surgery was done. Strikes me as a combo of idle time and pain management with perhaps a small dose of discounsolation on top. The more disquieting others find it... the cheaper he gets.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
And you can bet Uncle Jim will do everything in his power to mentor Chad into the NFL.
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Bad NFL Draft crop of quarterbacks gets worse with Chad Kelly's torn ...www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/.../bad-nfl-draft-crop-of-quarterbacks-gets-...
Nov 7, 2016 - Kelly is the top-rated senior quarterback in the 2017 draft class. The Mississippi Rebels and QB-needy teams in the NFL alike were dealt a blow Sunday night with the announcement that senior signal-caller Chad Kelly had torn multiple knee ligaments in the team's 37-27 win Saturday over Georgia Southern.
www.nfl.com/.../chad-kelly-receives-seventhround-draft-projection-posti...
Nov 7, 2016 - That was prior to this injury." Kelly, the nephew of former Buffalo Bills star QB Jim Kelly, tore his ACL and lateral meniscus in a 37-27 win over Georgia Southern on Saturday. While that cost him a few more games for the Rebels, it's not as thoughNFL scouts won't have a foundation of game film to review of Kelly.
NFL Draft Prospect Ole Miss QB Chad Kelly Red Flags - The MMQB.commmqb.si.com/.../nfl-draft-2017-chad-kelly-ole-miss-quarterback-red-fla...
Oct 26, 2016 - Supremely talented, but erratic on the field. A checkered past off of it. The 2017 draft's top senior QB prospect has six months to convince NFL ... -
Sorry, Mr. FlugelsMeistsies...
but Kelly is/was a world class jerk. In 2014, I can't believe he acted like he did at all.
Tough to give a kid second chances after that fiasco. I suppose he may have "grown up", etc.
but when he gets to the NFL and makes millions of bucks, will he start being his "old self" again?
I, too, wouldn't draft him in any round. Don't need the locker room drama which is justifiably to
be suspected to be occurring eventually.
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Dude it's Mississippi. He was probably talking about spraying the place with some Glade mist or Febreze.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Sorry, Mr. FlugelsMeistsies...
but Kelly is/was a world class jerk. In 2014, I can't believe he acted like he did at all.
Tough to give a kid second chances after that fiasco. I suppose he may have "grown up", etc.
but when he gets to the NFL and makes millions of bucks, will he start being his "old self" again?
I, too, wouldn't draft him in any round. Don't need the locker room drama which is justifiably to
be suspected to be occurring eventually.
Sorry, Mr. FlugelsMeistsies...
but Kelly is/was a world class jerk. In 2014, I can't believe he acted like he did at all.
Tough to give a kid second chances after that fiasco. I suppose he may have "grown up", etc.
but when he gets to the NFL and makes millions of bucks, will he start being his "old self" again?
I, too, wouldn't draft him in any round. Don't need the locker room drama which is justifiably to
be suspected to be occurring eventually.
Calsies, I wish I could say drafting "Nice" kids like Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn was the best way to prevent the pricks in Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincy from taking turns at repeatedly winning the division. Unfortunately, I've seen where our nice guys have continued to finish since 1999.
I'd hate to think we're going to spend the next 3-4 years defending our 1st overall pick with "yeah but he's a great kid."
Like I said in this thread, it doesn't necessarily have to be Chad Kelly as a later round alternative to using #1 overall on Trubisky. It can be another QB the popularity contest pushes back like it did to guys like Dak Prescott and Russell Wilson not so long ago. I just think Kelly's skill set along with the ACL injury plus all the old stories about what a terrible kid he used to be could work in our favor in a later round with minimal risk/hurt if we're wrong. If you have a QB you feel might fit this route better than Chad Kelly - I'd be open to hearing who it is and why you feel he's a better idea.
Keep in mind, as the draft comes closer - there's going to be more stories surfacing to scare teams away from drafting a kid like Kelly. I remembered reading the week of the draft that Adrian Peterson's shoulder/clavicle injury might require season ending surgery before his rookie year would even get off the ground. Some teams took the bait while Minnesota did their research instead of reacting to rumors and false stories that were getting printed. Some of this could very well apply here especially with writers like Jason LaCockroach out there.
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Dude it's Mississippi. He was probably talking about spraying the place with some Glade mist or Febreze.
WSS
Dude it's Mississippi. He was probably talking about spraying the place with some Glade mist or Febreze.
WSS
LMAO! God bless ya Steve!
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Who waited until they were 18 or 19?
Great write up, Flugs... I may have actually acquired an appreciation for your style... at least when you and I agree...
Chad is still my top, 2017 Darkhorse candidate. I figure with his injury he's no higher than a mid-Day 2 pick, so the risk is not too great, and as you showed the upside is there.
The problem? His was a two-fer knee injury... ACL plus meniscus. Can't find a timetable on his progress, but odds are he's an IR stash his rookie season. He certainly won't be flashing at the Combine or any Pro-day.
I did find:
Surgery was a success, rehabilitation will soon follow and Chad Kelly is expected to make a full recovery after suffering a torn ACL in his right knee. What awaits the former St. Joseph’s Collegiate Institute star and Ole Miss quarterback, whose college career abruptly ended Nov. 5?
It could turn into a multimillion-dollar question for Kelly, who four weeks into the season was rated No. 9 among college quarterbacks by Pro Football Focus. Whatever his draft stock, it undoubtedly plummeted when he limped off the field after throwing for 249 yards and three touchdowns against Georgia Southern.
Kelly’s knee was in the gifted hands of Dr. James Andrews, the renowned orthopedic surgeon who performed the operation this week. Remember, the quarterback came back after tearing the ACL in his left knee while playing in Clemson’s spring game in 2013.
“Basically, he’s doing very well,” Kelly’s father, Kevin, said Tuesday when reached by telephone. “He’s extremely sore. The doctor gave him a good report. He was looking at his bones and his muscles and was very impressed with how strong they are. He was very pleased to see how healthy his legs are.”
http://buffalonews.com/2016/11/15/buck-stops-kelly-hoping-road-recovery-leads-nfl/
As for the photo... it was taken after the surgery was done. Strikes me as a combo of idle time and pain management with perhaps a small dose of discounsolation on top. The more disquieting others find it... the cheaper he gets.
Who waited until they were 18 or 19?
Great write up, Flugs... I may have actually acquired an appreciation for your style... at least when you and I agree...
Chad is still my top, 2017 Darkhorse candidate. I figure with his injury he's no higher than a mid-Day 2 pick, so the risk is not too great, and as you showed the upside is there.
The problem? His was a two-fer knee injury...
As for the photo... it was taken after the surgery was done. Strikes me as a combo of idle time and pain management with perhaps a small dose of discounsolation on top. The more disquieting others find it... the cheaper he gets.
Thanks - I really appreciate that Tour! Backatchya with appreciating your style as well as your passion.
Well put about the bargain he can become.
My first impression of Kelly was watching him beat Alabama in 2015. I saw the only QB Bama's elite defense couldn't stop prior to winning their National Championship. If we're wrong in taking Trubisky it's going to be at the expense of landing the pick of the litter at a huge need vrs "oh well, we missed on another mid/late round pick."
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Chad Kelly is the human embodiment of trash.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Chad Kelly is the human embodiment of trash.
+1. He is the embodiment of everything this staff wants to stay away from.Chad Kelly is the human embodiment of trash.
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Chad Kelly is the human embodiment of trash.
Chad Kelly is the human embodiment of trash.
Agreed. So are alot of good players. Mostly irrelevant IMO, but certainly more important for a QB than any other position.
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Sorry, Mr. FlugelsMeistsies...
but Kelly is/was a world class jerk. In 2014, I can't believe he acted like he did at all.
Tough to give a kid second chances after that fiasco. I suppose he may have "grown up", etc.
but when he gets to the NFL and makes millions of bucks, will he start being his "old self" again?
I, too, wouldn't draft him in any round. Don't need the locker room drama which is justifiably to
be suspected to be occurring eventually.
Calsies, I wish I could say drafting "Nice" kids like Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn was the best way to prevent the pricks in Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincy from taking turns at repeatedly winning the division. Unfortunately, I've seen where our nice guys have continued to finish since 1999.
I'd hate to think we're going to spend the next 3-4 years defending our 1st overall pick with "yeah but he's a great kid."
Like I said in this thread, it doesn't necessarily have to be Chad Kelly as a later round alternative to using #1 overall on Trubisky. It can be another QB the popularity contest pushes back like it did to guys like Dak Prescott and Russell Wilson not so long ago. I just think Kelly's skill set along with the ACL injury plus all the old stories about what a terrible kid he used to be could work in our favor in a later round with minimal risk/hurt if we're wrong. If you have a QB you feel might fit this route better than Chad Kelly - I'd be open to hearing who it is and why you feel he's a better idea.
Keep in mind, as the draft comes closer - there's going to be more stories surfacing to scare teams away from drafting a kid like Kelly. I remembered reading the week of the draft that Adrian Peterson's shoulder/clavicle injury might require season ending surgery before his rookie year would even get off the ground. Some teams took the bait while Minnesota did their research instead of reacting to rumors and false stories that were getting printed. Some of this could very well apply here especially with writers like Jason LaCockroach out there.
Calsies, I wish I could say drafting "Nice" kids like Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn was the best way to prevent the pricks in Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincy from taking turns at repeatedly winning the division. Unfortunately, I've seen where our nice guys have continued to finish since 1999.
I'd hate to think we're going to spend the next 3-4 years defending our 1st overall pick with "yeah but he's a great kid."
Like I said in this thread, it doesn't necessarily have to be Chad Kelly as a later round alternative to using #1 overall on Trubisky. It can be another QB the popularity contest pushes back like it did to guys like Dak Prescott and Russell Wilson not so long ago. I just think Kelly's skill set along with the ACL injury plus all the old stories about what a terrible kid he used to be could work in our favor in a later round with minimal risk/hurt if we're wrong. If you have a QB you feel might fit this route better than Chad Kelly - I'd be open to hearing who it is and why you feel he's a better idea.
Keep in mind, as the draft comes closer - there's going to be more stories surfacing to scare teams away from drafting a kid like Kelly. I remembered reading the week of the draft that Adrian Peterson's shoulder/clavicle injury might require season ending surgery before his rookie year would even get off the ground. Some teams took the bait while Minnesota did their research instead of reacting to rumors and false stories that were getting printed. Some of this could very well apply here especially with writers like Jason LaCockroach out there.
I agree. Nice guys finish last in football. The game of football just does not comport with gentlemen for the most part.
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Calsies, I wish I could say drafting "Nice" kids like Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn was the best way to prevent the pricks in Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincy from taking turns at repeatedly winning the division. Unfortunately, I've seen where our nice guys have continued to finish since 1999.
I'd hate to think we're going to spend the next 3-4 years defending our 1st overall pick with "yeah but he's a great kid."
Like I said in this thread, it doesn't necessarily have to be Chad Kelly as a later round alternative to using #1 overall on Trubisky. It can be another QB the popularity contest pushes back like it did to guys like Dak Prescott and Russell Wilson not so long ago. I just think Kelly's skill set along with the ACL injury plus all the old stories about what a terrible kid he used to be could work in our favor in a later round with minimal risk/hurt if we're wrong. If you have a QB you feel might fit this route better than Chad Kelly - I'd be open to hearing who it is and why you feel he's a better idea.
Keep in mind, as the draft comes closer - there's going to be more stories surfacing to scare teams away from drafting a kid like Kelly. I remembered reading the week of the draft that Adrian Peterson's shoulder/clavicle injury might require season ending surgery before his rookie year would even get off the ground. Some teams took the bait while Minnesota did their research instead of reacting to rumors and false stories that were getting printed. Some of this could very well apply here especially with writers like Jason LaCockroach out there.
I agree. Nice guys finish last in football. The game of football just does not comport with gentlemen for the most part.
To me there's a difference between "nice guys" and "trash". In a sport full of testosterone overdrive an element of nasty is good. You can be a nasty mean competitive player without being a gangster wanna be thug.I agree. Nice guys finish last in football. The game of football just does not comport with gentlemen for the most part.
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But your odds are greatly diminished.
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If you guys want to show me a list of late round QBs with off the field problems related to drugs and fighting and general douchbaggery who became franchise QBs in the last 25 years, I'll wait.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
If you guys want to show me a list of late round QBs with off the field problems related to drugs and fighting and general douchbaggery who became franchise QBs in the last 25 years, I'll wait.
If you guys want to show me a list of late round QBs with off the field problems related to drugs and fighting and general douchbaggery who became franchise QBs in the last 25 years, I'll wait.
Tom Brady had a well known bath salts problem.
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