Draft Talk #2.

Mark O

@the-gipper said:

I only gave you the #1 overall picks, and only Carr. Winston, Newton, Luck and Bradford started right out. And imo Bradford and Carr should have waited.

Your premise went beyond #1 picks, you said ANY first round pick should not wait., yet, except for those 3 and a few others nearly ALL first round QB picks waited some: (Wentz/Flacco/Ryan did not)

Lynch full year so far

Goff 11 games

Mariota 4 games

Manziel....what the fuck ever

Brigdeport..4 games

Bortles...3 games

EJ Manual 6 games

Griffin 1 game

Weeden 1 game

Locker full year

Gabbert 2 games

Ponder 6 games

Tebow 13 games

Sanchez 1 game

Josh Freeman 7 games

Quinn full year

Vince Young 3 games

Leinert 5 games

Cutler 11 games

Jason Campbell 9 games.

Rodgers.....3 years!!

OK, some of these sucked so bad they maybe never should have been allowed to start, but that is hindsight.

Fact is, even history since Rodgers was drafted, most 1st round QBs had a waiting period.

Success if certainly variable.

Some issues with your stats here.

Just at first glance:

Mariotta started week 1 year 1 for Titans

Weeden started week 1 year 1 for Cleveland

RG III started week 1 year 1 for Washington

Mark Sanchez started week 1 year 1 for the Jets

And Rodgers and Eli Manning were both waiting behind HOF QB. Again my question is if a guy is taken 1st overall and can't beat out the 4 QB stiffs we have on our team, then he sucks and shouldn't be drafted.

Flyin J

The more I think about it and the more I see of him, Rueben Foster should be in the conversation for #1. This guy will have a Ray Lewis/ Luke Kuechly type career if he stays healthy.

Canton Dawg

Phil Savage tweeted. . .

FYI, I can confirm that @DeshaunWatson4 will not be participating in the 68th Annual #REESES @seniorbowl. Players begin arriving on Sunday.

Tour2ma

@mark-o said:

Some issues with your stats here. Just at first glance:

Mariotta started week 1 year 1 for Titans

Weeden started week 1 year 1 for Cleveland

RG III started week 1 year 1 for Washington

Mark Sanchez started week 1 year 1 for the Jets

Stems from just looking at their career summaries in PFR, seeing <16 games played, and assuming the missing game was Week 1, rather than taking the time to look at the game logs.

When there's an argument to be rejoined, you can't expect Gip to be accurate. It's all about the argument. Information is incidental. It's why I went full "ignore".

The memory of Wheezy's, Week-1 debut vs. Philly, and his 5-ish game rating, is still burned into my brain.

Mark O

@tour2ma said:

Stems from just looking at their career summaries in PFR, seeing <16 games played, and assuming the missing game was Week 1, rather than taking the time to look at the game logs.

When there's an argument to be rejoined, you can't expect Gip to be accurate. It's all about the argument. Information is incidental. It's why I went full "ignore".

The memory of Wheezy's, Week-1 debut vs. Philly, and his 5-ish game rating, is still burned into my brain.

Saw that game with my own eyes.....watched all 4 interceptions that day. Watched Craig Robertson drop a game clinching interception as well. We thought Trent Richardson was a hall of famer after that game when he plowed into that poor eagles defender and knocked his helmet off.

TexasAg1969

@flyin-j said:
The more I think about it and the more I see of him, Rueben Foster should be in the conversation for #1. This guy will have a Ray Lewis/ Luke Kuechly type career if he stays healthy.

While I don't agree with #1 overall, I do agree he is one hellofa player. Unfortunately I think he is gone before #12, so the question becomes whether we think he is worth trading up to get or not.

hoorta

@wargograw said:
Yeah I'm not sure why they upset people so much. Especially when TCPO posts one as the first comment and Hoorta is cool with it. Huh?

If you noticed the computer grades were removed. See below for my rational.

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

If you'll look, mine was sarcastic - it was the straw that broke the camel's back in the other thread that caused him to make this one.

Exactly.

@wargograw said:
I know. I laughed. I just don't know why hoorta then took it seriously.

I've only closed a couple threads- the original was getting too long in the first place- and secondly was getting WAY off topic with the computer simulations. If you want to know where I'm coming from- I don't play Madden either. It was like- gee, if I play the computer simulation 100 times, I can come up with the coolest draft ever. Obsessive to the point like guys playing pinball or Pac Man who won't quit until they beat the high score, or at least come close. Sorry if some posters think I'm being a wet blanket spoiling their fun. Heck- we're not even into the East- West Shrine Game or Senior Bowl, not to mention the Combine- is that computer smart enough to take that into account? Tour sort of got POed at me for posting that ridiculous draft- but I don't need a computer to create an ultimate fantasy draft for the Browns.

PoeticG

Not to criticize but I think running the computer simulation about a hundred time(probably way more) is exactly what our analytical FO is doing at this exact moment.

That first pick game is constantly upgraded with the latest up to date ranking on players... I've watched Jake Butt go from being a first round consideration to a late day 3 selection. Marcus Williams went from a day 1 to day 2...

It is a good way to determine what team needs are, who is going to be selected and where approximately. It is no doubt going to change up until draft day but as of now that is the information that is currently available... what else do we have to go on?

hoorta

@poeticg said:

Not to criticize but I think running the computer simulation about a hundred time(probably way more) is exactly what our analytical FO is doing at this exact moment.

That first pick game is constantly upgraded with the latest up to date ranking on players... I've watched Jake Butt go from being a first round consideration to a late day 3 selection. Marcus Williams went from a day 1 to day 2...

It is a good way to determine what team needs are, who is going to be selected and where approximately. It is no doubt going to change up until draft day but as of now that is the information that is currently available... what else do we have to go on?

At this point- it's strictly a "Beauty Contest" just like the weekly NFL Power Rankings are. LOL, hey- how 'bout those Cowboys now? The stuff you mentioned is pure speculation, by some draftnicks who may or may not know any more than you or me. Doesn't take much to have a blog, or write for Bleacher Report. Just like the goober having Wyoming's Josh Allen as a top 3 pick. Analytics is way more than computer simulations, just part of it. Is the computer game going into the depth most front offices are going? I doubt it. Doesn't have the scouting reports either. There's things like interviews and background checks. Doubtless Manziel scored high on the computer part- too bad the Browns didn't research the character part thoroughly enough. Feed a computer incomplete or faulty data, you're going to get incomplete or faulty output. So if you enjoy that game, knock yourself out - in the other thread. Just remember it's not worth the powder to blow it to hell come the end of April.

PoeticG

Trubisky

Fournette

Hooker

Foster

Garrett

Allen

Elflein

Pocic

King

I'm hoping for at least 3 of these players.

wargograw

@flyin-j said:
The more I think about it and the more I see of him, Rueben Foster should be in the conversation for #1. This guy will have a Ray Lewis/ Luke Kuechly type career if he stays healthy.

Agreed, unfortunately. I miss the days when we can get him at 12. Let me dust off the time machine.

The Gipper

@mark-o said:

Some issues with your stats here.

Just at first glance:

Mariotta started week 1 year 1 for Titans

Weeden started week 1 year 1 for Cleveland

RG III started week 1 year 1 for Washington

Mark Sanchez started week 1 year 1 for the Jets

These guys then either got hurt or were benched later in their rookie year, since they didn't play the whole year.

And Rodgers and Eli Manning were both waiting behind HOF QB. Again my question is if a guy is taken 1st overall and can't beat out the 4 QB stiffs we have on our team, then he sucks and shouldn't be drafted.

Well, I agree with that to a point. The point is: even though it is clear that the rookie QB is by far more talented, it still may not hurt to let him sit a few games to get the feel for what it is to be a "Pro".

Now, sure, maybe many can handle it....and I am not saying that if the Browns take a guy #1 that he could not handle it, I just don't oppose the concept of letting a kid get the feel for the game a bit by observing.

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

Stems from just looking at their career summaries in PFR, seeing <16 games played, and assuming the missing game was Week 1, rather than taking the time to look at the game logs.

When there's an argument to be rejoined, you can't expect Gip to be accurate. It's all about the argument. Information is incidental. It's why I went full "ignore".

The memory of Wheezy's, Week-1 debut vs. Philly, and his 5-ish game rating, is still burned into my brain.

I spend enough time looking stuff up. More than any other mother fucker on here. (Oh, look, I cursed...don't cry)

I get more data right here than anyone else..... If I miss on a thing or two, so what. Why is your pussy hurt over it?

I will be glad to spend all this time you want me too research every single data point I ever make. Just pay me my hourly rate.

It seems to me that you are more interested in trying to find some minutiae of a mistake that I may have made than having a cogent conversation about it.

I guess I could do the same to you....play GOTCHA...".You got something silly wrong you asshole. Aha....it makes me feel so much better about myself. God praise me because I found Tour making a mistake" hallelujah!!

(see how stupid that is)

Mark O

@the-gipper said:

@mark-o said:

Some issues with your stats here.

Just at first glance:

Mariotta started week 1 year 1 for Titans

Weeden started week 1 year 1 for Cleveland

RG III started week 1 year 1 for Washington

Mark Sanchez started week 1 year 1 for the Jets

These guys then either got hurt or were benched later in their rookie year, since they didn't play the whole year.

And Rodgers and Eli Manning were both waiting behind HOF QB. Again my question is if a guy is taken 1st overall and can't beat out the 4 QB stiffs we have on our team, then he sucks and shouldn't be drafted.

Well, I agree with that to a point. The point is: even though it is clear that the rookie QB is by far more talented, it still may not hurt to let him sit a few games to get the feel for what it is to be a "Pro".

Now, sure, maybe many can handle it....and I am not saying that if the Browns take a guy #1 that he could not handle it, I just don't oppose the concept of letting a kid get the feel for the game a bit by observing.

Im guessing it was injury in every case of the ones I mentioned not playing the whole year. These top guys coming out this year should be doing nothing more from the time their bowl game ended till the time training camp opens getting a "feel for what it is to be a pro". The only one of the 4 stiffs we have I would be remotely comfortable with a top draft pick sitting behind is McCown and that's only because I think he's the only one who fits your description of knowing what it is to be a pro QB. He's not very good, but he's had a long career and seems to get the mental side of being a pro QB. What is any one of these guys going to learn from Kessler or Hogan?

The Gipper

@mark-o said:

Im guessing it was injury in every case of the ones I mentioned not playing the whole year. These top guys coming out this year should be doing nothing more from the time their bowl game ended till the time training camp opens getting a "feel for what it is to be a pro". The only one of the 4 stiffs we have I would be remotely comfortable with a top draft pick sitting behind is McCown and that's only because I think he's the only one who fits your description of knowing what it is to be a pro QB. He's not very good, but he's had a long career and seems to get the mental side of being a pro QB. What is any one of these guys going to learn from Kessler or Hogan?

Well, I am not sure that what I am talking about necessarily is that a new QB should be able "learn" anything from these guys. I agree that they probably wouldn't. I think I am just talking about getting a general feel for the game.