QB Questions
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The super bowl will be played between two 6'4" QB's that can sling it hard.
I'd like to put in an order for a tall drink of water QB that can throw it hard please.
Is 6'3" OK?
Rodgers and Favre are 6'2". Ditto Joe Montana. That shrimp Drew Brees is 6'0" . General rule of thumb for good\great qbs- 6'2" or taller. Brees is the notable outlier. -
I'll answer you with this Tom. And you don't need to write a novel- I'm not going to change my mind. Who won the AFC- NFC Championships? It sure as hell wasn't the teams with superior defenses. That studly Texans defense is at home too. FWIW, I like Garrett- but franchise qb trumps edge rusher. If there's a qb you think can be "the guy" but gee if we wait until #12 and hope he'll still be there because we"ll miss out on Garrett or Allen is chickenshit thinking.
It starts and ends with a franchise qb. You think Watson is going to magically learn how to be accurate deep? Go watch the tape. Learn how to not throw all those interceptions? Learn how not to get killed? Deshawn is no more "NFL Ready" than any of the other prospects.
https://twitter.com/NFLRT/status/818671083805175808
I was talking about THROWING at the combine, doubtless he'll show up. I'm 100% with Ghoolie on this one- Watson will suck as an NFL qb, and plenty of scouts share that position. Though this has been debated in another thread, if Watson REALLY wanted the Browns to draft hm- MHO is he wouldn't have skipped the Senior Bowl. If you don't realize, (and I've said elsewhere) we already have his bum clone on the roster by the name of RG III, and Griffin even has a better (though not more accurate) arm than Watson. Don't see the similarities? Can't help you.
Yada, yada, so he won a lot of games in college- so did Vince Young.
My qb pecking order as of today-
Mitch
Kizer
Mahomes
Watson
Kelly
The problem with this argument as I've noted before is that it really is a "no shit" argument to have. No one who watches football for more than two seconds is going to argue against the fact you need to have a top-tier QB to play for a Super Bowl.
However, 2 of the last Super Bowls have been won by the #1 defense in the NFL. If the Patriots win, they are #8 this year and were #1 in scoring defense as well. Look at Atlanta, they've had the franchise guy for YEARS, Julio Jones for YEARS and had Roddy White for YEARS. The reason they made it finally to the SB is because they brought in a defensive minded HC and drafted defensive players early and often.
The point is, they took Matt Ryan in a year where he clearly was the dude. This year, Myles Garrett is clearly the dude for the Browns at #1, and none of those QBs you've listed are. I'm tired of the Browns overthinking this crap year in and year out when this year the choice is about as obvious as it gets. There's still plenty of time to trade up to get the franchise guy if they so choose.
The problem with this argument as I've noted before is that it really is a "no shit" argument to have. No one who watches football for more than two seconds is going to argue against the fact you need to have a top-tier QB to play for a Super Bowl.
However, 2 of the last Super Bowls have been won by the #1 defense in the NFL. If the Patriots win, they are #8 this year and were #1 in scoring defense as well. Look at Atlanta, they've had the franchise guy for YEARS, Julio Jones for YEARS and had Roddy White for YEARS. The reason they made it finally to the SB is because they brought in a defensive minded HC and drafted defensive players early and often.
The point is, they took Matt Ryan in a year where he clearly was the dude. This year, Myles Garrett is clearly the dude for the Browns at #1, and none of those QBs you've listed are. I'm tired of the Browns overthinking this crap year in and year out when this year the choice is about as obvious as it gets. There's still plenty of time to trade up to get the franchise guy if they so choose.
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The super bowl will be played between two 6'4" QB's that can sling it hard.
I'd like to put in an order for a tall drink of water QB that can throw it hard please.
The super bowl will be played between two 6'4" QB's that can sling it hard.
I'd like to put in an order for a tall drink of water QB that can throw it hard please.
You rang?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The super bowl will be played between two 6'4" QB's that can sling it hard.
I'd like to put in an order for a tall drink of water QB that can throw it hard please.
Is 6'3" OK?
Rodgers and Favre are 6'2". Ditto Joe Montana. That shrimp Drew Brees is 6'0" . General rule of thumb for good\great qbs- 6'2" or taller. Brees is the notable outlier. Rodgers and Favre are 6'2". Ditto Joe Montana. That shrimp Drew Brees is 6'0" .Sure, I'd be ok with one of those.
But if not, I'd like the big guy with a cannon please.
If he's not there in the early rounds....then look for a later round flyer....please.
(Kosar was a big guy, Sipe was a little guy. I'd take either...but I'd pick Kosar)
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You STILL didn't answer my question so I'll ask you a 3rd time. How many QBs that could only start 1 year in the ACC went on to become NFL franchise saviors?
Maybe the answer is simply: We don't know. I don't know the college careers of every QB. But maybe this: Russell Wilson, played at NC St. and Wisc. How about Phillip Rivers, also NC St. Or, how about Teddy Twatwater...he played in the ACC. Or how about Matt Ryan. Jameis Winston. all ACC guys. You want to go back in history? Sonny Jurgenson, Duke guy. Marino played at Pitt...currently ACC, but not then, Boomer Esiason...ACC then....but not now. Michael Vick....Va. Tech is ACC.
Pick who you like.
I don't want a QB at #1 overall. You do. I've been looking for alternatives to that.
While I agree we need a franchise QB - I don't have enough evidence this draft has one at #1 overall. Therefore, I think we should take advantage of our ideal chance(s) to address our 31st ranked defense (which included us ranking last at sacking the QB). We cannot afford to flush the 1st overall pick down the toilet.
If you want to take that tact Tom,...then I think that you need to advocate that the Browns use all four of their picks in rounds 1 and 2 on defense. It WILL take that many to give this defense the talent and improvement that you want to see it given.
You will have to eschew any interest in improving the offense...unless we get lucky in the lower rounds. You will have to settle on another year of RG and Kessler.
Is that what you want? If so, say so.
You STILL didn't answer my question so I'll ask you a 3rd time. How many QBs that could only start 1 year in the ACC went on to become NFL franchise saviors?- Flugel
Maybe the answer is simply: We don't know. I don't know the college careers of every QB. But maybe this: Russell Wilson, played at NC St. and Wisc. How about Phillip Rivers, also NC St. Or, how about Teddy Twatwater...he played in the ACC. Or how about Matt Ryan. Jameis Winston. all ACC guys. You want to go back in history? Sonny Jurgenson, Duke guy. Marino played at Pitt...currently ACC, but not then, Boomer Esiason...ACC then....but not now. Michael Vick....Va. Tech is ACC. - Gips
Pick who you like.
All the QBs you named started more than 1 year as college QBs. - Flugel
I don't want a QB at #1 overall. You do. I've been looking for alternatives to that. While I agree we need a franchise QB - I don't have enough evidence this draft has one at #1 overall. Therefore, I think we should take advantage of our ideal chance(s) to address our 31st ranked defense (which included us ranking last at sacking the QB). We cannot afford to flush the 1st overall pick down the toilet. - Flugel
If you want to take that tact Tom,...then I think that you need to advocate that the Browns use all four of their picks in rounds 1 and 2 on defense. It WILL take that many to give this defense the talent and improvement that you want to see it given. - Gips
I'd feel great if we used 3 of our first 4 picks toward our 31 ranked defense so whoever does play QB isn't always down 7-0 about 3 minutes into every game. This draft can make things easier on whoever plays QB like limiting what the other team scores better than 2016. We're also getting Des Bryant back upfront with fresh legs who used to be the highest paid guy in our front 7. He can play inside or outside in a 4-3 so that should help us too. - Flugel
You will have to eschew any interest in improving the offense...unless we get lucky in the lower rounds. You will have to settle on another year of RG and Kessler. Is that what you want? If so, say so. - Gips
Who says we have to totally boycott offensive help in free agency or rounds 3-7 of the draft? For example, Tour's mock had us adding a Center like Tyler Orlosky from WVU and a TE like David Njoku from Miami in some of those rounds. Didn't he also have us taking a QB at the top of round 2? Kizer may already be gone there but since a lot of guys are climbing at the QB position - maybe we take Mahomes (that many guys like). - Flugel
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
You STILL didn't answer my question so I'll ask you a 3rd time. How many QBs that could only start 1 year in the ACC went on to become NFL franchise saviors?
Maybe the answer is simply: We don't know. I don't know the college careers of every QB. But maybe this: Russell Wilson, played at NC St. and Wisc. How about Phillip Rivers, also NC St. Or, how about Teddy Twatwater...he played in the ACC. Or how about Matt Ryan. Jameis Winston. all ACC guys. You want to go back in history? Sonny Jurgenson, Duke guy. Marino played at Pitt...currently ACC, but not then, Boomer Esiason...ACC then....but not now. Michael Vick....Va. Tech is ACC.
Pick who you like.
I don't want a QB at #1 overall. You do. I've been looking for alternatives to that.
While I agree we need a franchise QB - I don't have enough evidence this draft has one at #1 overall. Therefore, I think we should take advantage of our ideal chance(s) to address our 31st ranked defense (which included us ranking last at sacking the QB). We cannot afford to flush the 1st overall pick down the toilet.
If you want to take that tact Tom,...then I think that you need to advocate that the Browns use all four of their picks in rounds 1 and 2 on defense. It WILL take that many to give this defense the talent and improvement that you want to see it given.
You will have to eschew any interest in improving the offense...unless we get lucky in the lower rounds. You will have to settle on another year of RG and Kessler.
Is that what you want? If so, say so.
Tom is getting nit-picky Gip. And being a smartass about it. The correct answer to an ACC !!! Quarterback starting ONE year AND making it big in the NFL is zero.
We can refresh his memory about defensive players drafted #1 overall who have busted (as you mentioned starting with Courtney Brown) there are others. Or a guy like Dan Wilkinson who was as highly touted a "can't miss" prospect as Garrett, and never lived up to his #1 draft status. Houston went Clowney first, and reached like crazy for Osweiler. Probably need to go bargain shopping in this draft for a qb again. Do we want to be in their situation? I think not. We see it exactly the same way. If we draft a QB @ #1, we still have three top picks to improve the defense. Let's not forget the Raiders busted big time on Jamarcus Russell and got to Scotland (the playoffs) before ye.
I'll take Mitch, Solomon Thomas or Hooker + two other defensive players over Garrett and any other option.
So Flugs is scared if we pass on Garrett, we're passing on the next Von Miller, and Trubisky is going to be a bust, or at best another Blake Bortles. This is our one unimpeded shot at the pick of the litter franchise qb, Now some guys want to convince themselves they're all mongrels.
PS Flugs- I started the Trubisky Train, Ghoolie jumped on board later.
Tom is getting nit-picky Gip. And being a smartass about it. The correct answer to an ACC !!! Quarterback starting ONE year AND making it big in the NFL is zero.
We can refresh his memory about defensive players drafted #1 overall who have busted.
Dan Wilkinson who was as highly touted a "can't miss" prospect as Garrett, and never lived up to his #1 draft status.
Let's not forget the Raiders busted big time on Jamarcus Russell and got to Scotland (the playoffs) before ye.
So Flugs is scared if we pass on Garrett, we're passing on the next Von Miller, and Trubisky is going to be a bust, or at best another Blake Bortles. This is our one unimpeded shot at the pick of the litter franchise qb, Now some guys want to convince themselves they're all mongrels.
For a guy that doesn't like novels - you wrote a ton of them in this thread. Way to take all your comparisons way out of context. The 13 year NFL career of DT Dan Wilkinson may not have been terrific the entire time; but he was a reliable starter that was named All Pro in 2003. How is he pertinent to Myles Garrett at all? Different build, different position, different era. And your carefully selected QB comparisons are always black QBs that failed rather than Russell Wilson, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Dak Prescott, Cam Newton, Warren Moon after the CFL. The guy Watson resembled the most in college was Joe Montana. Arm strength questioned, completion % was average at best, ran a lot, 6'2" tall, great vision and poise when game was on the line; and it was a no no to rank him with elite QBs pre-draft. Scouts weren't that nice to him either.
I didn't start this thread with an aim to twist your nipples. You just showed up in tantrum mode acting like you just drank a vineyard. Are you going to spend the next 3 months like a little yap dog nipping at everyone's ankles that doesn't want us to use our first overall pick on a QB that only started 1 year in the ACC? It doesn't mean I hate the kid. I just don't see a big enough body of work to trust. I've posted things I liked about him as well as concerns. Didn't I mention a month or so ago I understood why you and Gipper liked him regardless of who I want us to draft first? That said, watching only 2 of his games doesn't make me or you an expert on the kid.
I never asked/demanded you to like Watson. Do you even know what the subject heading of this thread is? You clearly didn't read the OP or you would have realized the intentions of the thread weren't to be a smart ass. You should see how you act any time someone doesn't agree with you about Trubisky.
When did I ever say Garrett is the next Von Miller? I haven't read 1 of our A&M fans that watch him every single week even say that either. All the way up until Gregg Williams got hired, my first choice has been Jonathan Allen to which I typed a bunch of times. I've kept an open mind for Garrett though. I'm actually excited about this draft and all the options we have.
I think Trubisky is a 2nd round talent like Derek Carr was; but it's such a weak QB class in a year several teams need to draft a QB that he'll be thrown all the way up to where franchise QBs are usually taken. I'm not describing a bust. I'm describing unreasonable expectations ahead for somebody that could end up in an offensive environment as bad as Cleveland or SF. None of this means I hate the kid. At least Gipper gave me a signature win he had vrs Florida State in another thread which I liked seeing. If we draft him, you know how I am to a fault. I'll root like Hell for him.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
to whom it may concern from NC. Stanford & Virginia Tech was the best Defense Mitch has faced. In the Acc Clemson was ranked #1 in defense, which Mitch never played. In ACC total Defense which Mitch played against---FSU ranked 9th. Pitt 8th. Ga.Tech #7. Miami was #2 which Mitch threw for 2 TD's & 300yrds..Illinois ranked 12th in Big 10..Hope this helps your gametape viewing.
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Tom is getting nit-picky Gip. And being a smartass about it. The correct answer to an ACC !!! Quarterback starting ONE year AND making it big in the NFL is zero.
We can refresh his memory about defensive players drafted #1 overall who have busted.
Dan Wilkinson who was as highly touted a "can't miss" prospect as Garrett, and never lived up to his #1 draft status.
Let's not forget the Raiders busted big time on Jamarcus Russell and got to Scotland (the playoffs) before ye.
So Flugs is scared if we pass on Garrett, we're passing on the next Von Miller, and Trubisky is going to be a bust, or at best another Blake Bortles. This is our one unimpeded shot at the pick of the litter franchise qb, Now some guys want to convince themselves they're all mongrels.
For a guy that doesn't like novels - you wrote a ton of them in this thread. Way to take all your comparisons way out of context. The 13 year NFL career of DT Dan Wilkinson may not have been terrific the entire time; but he was a reliable starter that was named All Pro in 2003. How is he pertinent to Myles Garrett at all? Different build, different position, different era. And your carefully selected QB comparisons are always black QBs that failed rather than Russell Wilson, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Dak Prescott, Cam Newton, Warren Moon after the CFL. The guy Watson resembled the most in college was Joe Montana. Arm strength questioned, completion % was average at best, ran a lot, 6'2" tall, great vision and poise when game was on the line; and it was a no no to rank him with elite QBs pre-draft. Scouts weren't that nice to him either.
I didn't start this thread with an aim to twist your nipples. You just showed up in tantrum mode acting like you just drank a vineyard. Are you going to spend the next 3 months like a little yap dog nipping at everyone's ankles that doesn't want us to use our first overall pick on a QB that only started 1 year in the ACC? It doesn't mean I hate the kid. I just don't see a big enough body of work to trust. I've posted things I liked about him as well as concerns. Didn't I mention a month or so ago I understood why you and Gipper liked him regardless of who I want us to draft first? That said, watching only 2 of his games doesn't make me or you an expert on the kid.
I never asked/demanded you to like Watson. Do you even know what the subject heading of this thread is? You clearly didn't read the OP or you would have realized the intentions of the thread weren't to be a smart ass. You should see how you act any time someone doesn't agree with you about Trubisky.
When did I ever say Garrett is the next Von Miller? I haven't read 1 of our A&M fans that watch him every single week even say that either. All the way up until Gregg Williams got hired, my first choice has been Jonathan Allen to which I typed a bunch of times. I've kept an open mind for Garrett though. I'm actually excited about this draft and all the options we have.
I think Trubisky is a 2nd round talent like Derek Carr was; but it's such a weak QB class in a year several teams need to draft a QB that he'll be thrown all the way up to where franchise QBs are usually taken. I'm not describing a bust. I'm describing unreasonable expectations ahead for somebody that could end up in an offensive environment as bad as Cleveland or SF. None of this means I hate the kid. At least Gipper gave me a signature win he had vrs Florida State in another thread which I liked seeing. If we draft him, you know how I am to a fault. I'll root like Hell for him.
never asked/demanded you to like Watson. Do you even know what the subject heading of this thread is? You clearly didn't read the OP or you would have realized the intentions of the thread weren't to be a smart ass. You should see how you act any time someone doesn't agree with you about Trubisky.When did I ever say Garrett is the next Von Miller? I haven't read 1 of our A&M fans that watch him every single week even say that either. All the way up until Gregg Williams got hired, my first choice has been Jonathan Allen to which I typed a bunch of times. I've kept an open mind for Garrett though. I'm actually excited about this draft and all the options we have.
I think Trubisky is a 2nd round talent like Derek Carr was; but it's such a weak QB class in a year several teams need to draft a QB that he'll be thrown all the way up to where franchise QBs are usually taken. I'm not describing a bust. I'm describing unreasonable expectations ahead for somebody that could end up in an offensive environment as bad as Cleveland or SF. None of this means I hate the kid. At least Gipper gave me a signature win he had vrs Florida State in another thread which I liked seeing. If we draft him, you know how I am to a fault. I'll root like Hell for him.
I'll let everyone yammer on on how great Garret is going to be. I don't dislike Garret- or Allen. We're arguing in circles- I'm tired of offering rebuttal to "we need to build the defense first" because Garrett is a once in a generation player and if we pass on him we're doofuses.
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never asked/demanded you to like Watson. Do you even know what the subject heading of this thread is? You clearly didn't read the OP or you would have realized the intentions of the thread weren't to be a smart ass. You should see how you act any time someone doesn't agree with you about Trubisky.
When did I ever say Garrett is the next Von Miller? I haven't read 1 of our A&M fans that watch him every single week even say that either. All the way up until Gregg Williams got hired, my first choice has been Jonathan Allen to which I typed a bunch of times. I've kept an open mind for Garrett though. I'm actually excited about this draft and all the options we have.
I think Trubisky is a 2nd round talent like Derek Carr was; but it's such a weak QB class in a year several teams need to draft a QB that he'll be thrown all the way up to where franchise QBs are usually taken. I'm not describing a bust. I'm describing unreasonable expectations ahead for somebody that could end up in an offensive environment as bad as Cleveland or SF. None of this means I hate the kid. At least Gipper gave me a signature win he had vrs Florida State in another thread which I liked seeing. If we draft him, you know how I am to a fault. I'll root like Hell for him.
I'll let everyone yammer on on how great Garret is going to be. I don't dislike Garret- or Allen. We're arguing in circles- I'm tired of offering rebuttal to "we need to build the defense first" because Garrett is a once in a generation player and if we pass on him we're doofuses.
I'll let everyone yammer on on how great Garret is going to be. I don't dislike Garret- or Allen. We're arguing in circles- I'm tired of offering rebuttal to "we need to build the defense first" because Garrett is a once in a generation player and if we pass on him we're doofuses.
Are we sure we aren't already doofuses?
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never asked/demanded you to like Watson. Do you even know what the subject heading of this thread is? You clearly didn't read the OP or you would have realized the intentions of the thread weren't to be a smart ass. You should see how you act any time someone doesn't agree with you about Trubisky.
When did I ever say Garrett is the next Von Miller? I haven't read 1 of our A&M fans that watch him every single week even say that either. All the way up until Gregg Williams got hired, my first choice has been Jonathan Allen to which I typed a bunch of times. I've kept an open mind for Garrett though. I'm actually excited about this draft and all the options we have.
I think Trubisky is a 2nd round talent like Derek Carr was; but it's such a weak QB class in a year several teams need to draft a QB that he'll be thrown all the way up to where franchise QBs are usually taken. I'm not describing a bust. I'm describing unreasonable expectations ahead for somebody that could end up in an offensive environment as bad as Cleveland or SF. None of this means I hate the kid. At least Gipper gave me a signature win he had vrs Florida State in another thread which I liked seeing. If we draft him, you know how I am to a fault. I'll root like Hell for him.
I'll let everyone yammer on on how great Garret is going to be. I don't dislike Garret- or Allen. We're arguing in circles- I'm tired of offering rebuttal to "we need to build the defense first" because Garrett is a once in a generation player and if we pass on him we're doofuses.
I'll let everyone yammer on on how great Garret is going to be. I don't dislike Garret- or Allen. We're arguing in circles- I'm tired of offering rebuttal to "we need to build the defense first" because Garrett is a once in a generation player and if we pass on him we're doofuses.
But here you go again anyway. Carry on...
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I'll let everyone yammer on on how great Garret is going to be. I don't dislike Garret- or Allen. We're arguing in circles- I'm tired of offering rebuttal to "we need to build the defense first" because Garrett is a once in a generation player and if we pass on him we're doofuses.
Are we sure we aren't already doofuses?
Are we sure we aren't already doofuses?
Well, our past draft record track record would say so Mark. Quinn, We-done, and Manziel- all busts. Just one (I hope) final thought. I should know better than to argue with Flugles when he's on a roll, even though I think some of his come backs were mighty weak IMHO. Last year was supposed to be a "weak" qb class, & Goff and Wentz went 1-2. Pre draft 2016, this year was supposed to be a much "better" qb class, and now all of a sudden it's a "weak" class. Yeah, and now 2018 is going to be a "better" qb class. Riiight. You just have to hop on the qb carousel at some point and hope you're right. I'm way tired of the Browns shopping the 2nd and 3rd round qb bargain bin. Or hoping the second or third best qb is going to be the answer.
I really have no objection to drafting Garrett- he just better be all he's cracked up to be- and the "mediocre" qbs of 2017 better all be busts.
But here you go again anyway. Carry on...
You gotta have the last word- as always. So what part of "I'm done arguing with you." you didn't understand? ^^ This was a reply to Mark.
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Are we sure we aren't already doofuses?
Well, our past draft record track record would say so Mark. Quinn, We-done, and Manziel- all busts. Just one (I hope) final thought. I should know better than to argue with Flugles when he's on a roll, even though I think some of his come backs were mighty weak IMHO. Last year was supposed to be a "weak" qb class, & Goff and Wentz went 1-2. Pre draft 2016, this year was supposed to be a much "better" qb class, and now all of a sudden it's a "weak" class. Yeah, and now 2018 is going to be a "better" qb class. Riiight. You just have to hop on the qb carousel at some point and hope you're right. I'm way tired of the Browns shopping the 2nd and 3rd round qb bargain bin. Or hoping the second or third best qb is going to be the answer.
I really have no objection to drafting Garrett- he just better be all he's cracked up to be- and the "mediocre" qbs of 2017 better all be busts.
But here you go again anyway. Carry on...
You gotta have the last word- as always. So what part of "I'm done arguing with you." you didn't understand? ^^ This was a reply to Mark.
You gotta have the last word- as always. Tired of arguing with you.
But here you go again wanting to argue more. STFU already. I'm done watching you cry simply because I don't agree with you about the first pick. I started this thread so go somewhere else and cry at others that disagree with you.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
You gotta have the last word- as always. Tired of arguing with you.
But here you go again wanting to argue more. STFU already. I'm done watching you cry simply because I don't agree with you about the first pick. I started this thread so go somewhere else and cry at others that disagree with you.
But here you go again wanting to argue more. STFU already. I'm done watching you cry simply because I don't agree with you about the first pick. I started this thread so go somewhere else and cry at others that disagree with you.
Seriously- I've only told you three separate times I'm done arguing with you - but you're apparently having trouble understanding that. Maybe you aren't even reading what I'm posting. You think somehow I'm still arguing with you? You'd be dead wrong. Go sing kumbaya in YOUR thread- I'm OUT.
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But here you go again wanting to argue more. STFU already. I'm done watching you cry simply because I don't agree with you about the first pick. I started this thread so go somewhere else and cry at others that disagree with you.
Seriously- I've only told you three separate times I'm done arguing with you - but you're apparently having trouble understanding that. Maybe you aren't even reading what I'm posting. You think somehow I'm still arguing with you? You'd be dead wrong. Go sing kumbaya in YOUR thread- I'm OUT.
Seriously- I've only told you three separate times I'm done arguing with you - but you're apparently having trouble understanding that. Maybe you aren't even reading what I'm posting. You think somehow I'm still arguing with you? You'd be dead wrong. Go sing kumbaya in YOUR thread- I'm OUT.
I've read it all 3 times; but you're still arguing and typing you're done arguing and you're out. Put the bottle down and honor your empty promises. This thread was fine before you showed up with an extended tantrum...
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I'll answer you with this Tom. And you don't need to write a novel- I'm not going to change my mind. Who won the AFC- NFC Championships? It sure as hell wasn't the teams with superior defenses. That studly Texans defense is at home too. FWIW, I like Garrett- but franchise qb trumps edge rusher. If there's a qb you think can be "the guy" but gee if we wait until #12 and hope he'll still be there because we"ll miss out on Garrett or Allen is chickenshit thinking.
It starts and ends with a franchise qb. You think Watson is going to magically learn how to be accurate deep? Go watch the tape. Learn how to not throw all those interceptions? Learn how not to get killed? Deshawn is no more "NFL Ready" than any of the other prospects.
https://twitter.com/NFLRT/status/818671083805175808
I was talking about THROWING at the combine, doubtless he'll show up. I'm 100% with Ghoolie on this one- Watson will suck as an NFL qb, and plenty of scouts share that position. Though this has been debated in another thread, if Watson REALLY wanted the Browns to draft hm- MHO is he wouldn't have skipped the Senior Bowl. If you don't realize, (and I've said elsewhere) we already have his bum clone on the roster by the name of RG III, and Griffin even has a better (though not more accurate) arm than Watson. Don't see the similarities? Can't help you.
Yada, yada, so he won a lot of games in college- so did Vince Young.
My qb pecking order as of today-
Mitch
Kizer
Mahomes
Watson
Kelly
The problem with this argument as I've noted before is that it really is a "no shit" argument to have. No one who watches football for more than two seconds is going to argue against the fact you need to have a top-tier QB to play for a Super Bowl.
However, 2 of the last Super Bowls have been won by the #1 defense in the NFL. If the Patriots win, they are #8 this year and were #1 in scoring defense as well. Look at Atlanta, they've had the franchise guy for YEARS, Julio Jones for YEARS and had Roddy White for YEARS. The reason they made it finally to the SB is because they brought in a defensive minded HC and drafted defensive players early and often.
The point is, they took Matt Ryan in a year where he clearly was the dude. This year, Myles Garrett is clearly the dude for the Browns at #1, and none of those QBs you've listed are. I'm tired of the Browns overthinking this crap year in and year out when this year the choice is about as obvious as it gets. There's still plenty of time to trade up to get the franchise guy if they so choose.
The problem with this argument as I've noted before is that it really is a "no shit" argument to have. No one who watches football for more than two seconds is going to argue against the fact you need to have a top-tier QB to play for a Super Bowl.
However, 2 of the last Super Bowls have been won by the #1 defense in the NFL. If the Patriots win, they are #8 this year and were #1 in scoring defense as well. Look at Atlanta, they've had the franchise guy for YEARS, Julio Jones for YEARS and had Roddy White for YEARS. The reason they made it finally to the SB is because they brought in a defensive minded HC and drafted defensive players early and often.
The point is, they took Matt Ryan in a year where he clearly was the dude. This year, Myles Garrett is clearly the dude for the Browns at #1, and none of those QBs you've listed are. I'm tired of the Browns overthinking this crap year in and year out when this year the choice is about as obvious as it gets. There's still plenty of time to trade up to get the franchise guy if they so choose.
Well said! It could also be said the only times Peyton Manning won Superbowls were when he had a decent defense in Indy and a great one in Denver. Most of the years he had great stats or an MVP caliber season - his teams never made it to the Superbowl.
Meanwhile, nobody has been passing for more yardage then Drew Brees the last few years and the Saints haven't come close to making the playoffs.
It would be nice to have a great passer like Brady and the defense that gave up the fewest points in the NFL like New England.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I don't think Garrett is "fool proof", and he does have a few legitimate concerns. The thing is, he's an unbelievable physical talent, and with good defensive coaching, he could be a real powerhouse. How bad do we need somebody like that? How would the presence of an elite pass rusher affect our other players? The secondary? Opposite DE? And btw, Garrett was also stout against the run this year, and it's something he has improved on (so he is still learning, which is good). I think he's the obvious #1 pick. The only question to me is, "Is there a QB we simply HAVE to have, and we must take him #1 overall to secure his rights?" If we go QB at #1, will one of the other pass rushers be available at #12, such as Solomon or Barnett?
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You STILL didn't answer my question so I'll ask you a 3rd time. How many QBs that could only start 1 year in the ACC went on to become NFL franchise saviors?- Flugel
Maybe the answer is simply: We don't know. I don't know the college careers of every QB. But maybe this: Russell Wilson, played at NC St. and Wisc. How about Phillip Rivers, also NC St. Or, how about Teddy Twatwater...he played in the ACC. Or how about Matt Ryan. Jameis Winston. all ACC guys. You want to go back in history? Sonny Jurgenson, Duke guy. Marino played at Pitt...currently ACC, but not then, Boomer Esiason...ACC then....but not now. Michael Vick....Va. Tech is ACC. - Gips
Pick who you like.
All the QBs you named started more than 1 year as college QBs. - Flugel
I don't want a QB at #1 overall. You do. I've been looking for alternatives to that. While I agree we need a franchise QB - I don't have enough evidence this draft has one at #1 overall. Therefore, I think we should take advantage of our ideal chance(s) to address our 31st ranked defense (which included us ranking last at sacking the QB). We cannot afford to flush the 1st overall pick down the toilet. - Flugel
If you want to take that tact Tom,...then I think that you need to advocate that the Browns use all four of their picks in rounds 1 and 2 on defense. It WILL take that many to give this defense the talent and improvement that you want to see it given. - Gips
I'd feel great if we used 3 of our first 4 picks toward our 31 ranked defense so whoever does play QB isn't always down 7-0 about 3 minutes into every game. This draft can make things easier on whoever plays QB like limiting what the other team scores better than 2016. We're also getting Des Bryant back upfront with fresh legs who used to be the highest paid guy in our front 7. He can play inside or outside in a 4-3 so that should help us too. - Flugel
You will have to eschew any interest in improving the offense...unless we get lucky in the lower rounds. You will have to settle on another year of RG and Kessler. Is that what you want? If so, say so. - Gips
Who says we have to totally boycott offensive help in free agency or rounds 3-7 of the draft? For example, Tour's mock had us adding a Center like Tyler Orlosky from WVU and a TE like David Njoku from Miami in some of those rounds. Didn't he also have us taking a QB at the top of round 2? Kizer may already be gone there but since a lot of guys are climbing at the QB position - maybe we take Mahomes (that many guys like). - Flugel
You STILL didn't answer my question so I'll ask you a 3rd time. How many QBs that could only start 1 year in the ACC went on to become NFL franchise saviors?- Flugel
Maybe the answer is simply: We don't know. I don't know the college careers of every QB. But maybe this: Russell Wilson, played at NC St. and Wisc. How about Phillip Rivers, also NC St. Or, how about Teddy Twatwater...he played in the ACC. Or how about Matt Ryan. Jameis Winston. all ACC guys. You want to go back in history? Sonny Jurgenson, Duke guy. Marino played at Pitt...currently ACC, but not then, Boomer Esiason...ACC then....but not now. Michael Vick....Va. Tech is ACC. - Gips
Pick who you like.
All the QBs you named started more than 1 year as college QBs. - Flugel
OK, right. Well....the point is, why keep asking a question that no one has an answer to. Just accept the answer "none that we know of" and carry on.
I don't want a QB at #1 overall. You do. I've been looking for alternatives to that. While I agree we need a franchise QB - I don't have enough evidence this draft has one at #1 overall. Therefore, I think we should take advantage of our ideal chance(s) to address our 31st ranked defense (which included us ranking last at sacking the QB). We cannot afford to flush the 1st overall pick down the toilet. - Flugel
If you want to take that tact Tom,...then I think that you need to advocate that the Browns use all four of their picks in rounds 1 and 2 on defense. It WILL take that many to give this defense the talent and improvement that you want to see it given. - Gips
I'd feel great if we used 3 of our first 4 picks toward our 31 ranked defense so whoever does play QB isn't always down 7-0 about 3 minutes into every game. This draft can make things easier on whoever plays QB like limiting what the other team scores better than 2016. We're also getting Des Bryant back upfront with fresh legs who used to be the highest paid guy in our front 7. He can play inside or outside in a 4-3 so that should help us too. - Flugel
I agree that our defense needs a greater infusion of talent than the offense. But we still have issues at a couple of offensive positions....which are also priorities that need be addressed (including QB)
You will have to eschew any interest in improving the offense...unless we get lucky in the lower rounds. You will have to settle on another year of RG and Kessler. Is that what you want? If so, say so. - Gips
Who says we have to totally boycott offensive help in free agency or rounds 3-7 of the draft? For example, Tour's mock had us adding a Center like Tyler Orlosky from WVU and a TE like David Njoku from Miami in some of those rounds. Didn't he also have us taking a QB at the top of round 2? Kizer may already be gone there but since a lot of guys are climbing at the QB position - maybe we take Mahomes (that many guys like). - Flugel
We can take a QB anywhere down the draft and hope to get lucky. Yes, you have the occasional Brady, Wilson coming from lower rounds. But history has shown that the best chance of getting a franchise QB is to draft one very, very high in the draft. I mean, Cam Newton, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Andrew Luck etc etc. most of the good young QBs in this league have been taken very very high.
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"most of the good young QBs in this league have been taken very very high."
Pretty much - 90% of the good QBs are taken in the top 40 picks or so, and half of those are top 5 or so. EIther Luck, Newton, Winston, Mariota, or Brees, Dalton, Carr, Bridgewater etc.
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Are we sure we aren't already doofuses?
Well, our past draft record track record would say so Mark. Quinn, We-done, and Manziel- all busts. Just one (I hope) final thought. I should know better than to argue with Flugles when he's on a roll, even though I think some of his come backs were mighty weak IMHO. Last year was supposed to be a "weak" qb class, & Goff and Wentz went 1-2. Pre draft 2016, this year was supposed to be a much "better" qb class, and now all of a sudden it's a "weak" class. Yeah, and now 2018 is going to be a "better" qb class. Riiight. You just have to hop on the qb carousel at some point and hope you're right. I'm way tired of the Browns shopping the 2nd and 3rd round qb bargain bin. Or hoping the second or third best qb is going to be the answer.
I really have no objection to drafting Garrett- he just better be all he's cracked up to be- and the "mediocre" qbs of 2017 better all be busts.
But here you go again anyway. Carry on...
You gotta have the last word- as always. So what part of "I'm done arguing with you." you didn't understand? ^^ This was a reply to Mark.
Last year was supposed to be a "weak" qb class, & Goff and Wentz went 1-2. Pre draft 2016, this year was supposed to be a much "better" qb class, and now all of a sudden it's a "weak" class. Yeah, and now 2018 is going to be a "better" qb class. Riiight. You just have to hop on the qb carousel at some point and hope you're right. I'm way tired of the Browns shopping the 2nd and 3rd round qb bargain bin. Or hoping the second or third best qb is going to be the answer.
At this point....it would still look like last years draft class was "weak" Goff is horrible...Wentz is just ok, nothing special at all. Prescott (obviously) had the best year but he also played on the best team and he's a mid round lightning in a bottle pick anyways that we can't ever seem to catch.
Whoever we pick at #1 needs to be an immediate impact player, whatever position he plays. If it's a QB then he needs to be out there week 1 playing the game. For christs sake, we started Weeden week 1 after we drafted him, if the guy we pick at #1 overall isn't "ready" by week 1 then he was a wasted pick.
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