Trump’s New Religious Freedom Executive Order Is Little Short Of Awesome
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acting out is always a choice. Society defining "Real Marriage" is a choice.
a gay couple going to a Christian bakery is a choice.
pandering to sick freaks, the gays, and illegals and Muslims is a choice...of obamao and the dems.
trying to deny Christians the freedom of worship...is a choice.
acting out is always a choice. Society defining "Real Marriage" is a choice.
a gay couple going to a Christian bakery is a choice.
pandering to sick freaks, the gays, and illegals and Muslims is a choice...of obamao and the dems.
trying to deny Christians the freedom of worship...is a choice.
What if society chooses to define "Real Marriage" differently?
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Let me explain why that isn't going to happen.In rational debate on this forum I am sure I can match you study for study about homosexuality being a choice.
1) Ultimately why someone is gay means less than a shit to me. I have my everyday struggle with my faith that I must reconcile against truth and modern science. It's an internal battle that has lead me to the conclusion of 'it isn't me, doesn't effect me, let it be'.
2) I don't have the time nor care to exhaust on this forum or the bulk of its posters. As I've said before, it's an echo chamber where 4-5 people love being told how awesome and right they are.
3) my allegiance is to truth, credible science with as little bias or ulterior motive as humanly possible. I'm positive you can go 'study for study'. Im also positive yours will be from Christian science blogs, funded by prolife or religious advocate. There in lies the fundamental flaw with your argument. You can't be wrong because you're backbone is that God's Word deems it an abomination. Your allieigence is to God's Word THEN supporting conclusions. Mine is to truth, period. I have no dog in this fight. Again, i could not care less the reasons to why someone is queer. You cannot accept that the bulk are biologically programmed (born) that way which is an afront to your faith.
So our reasons for argument already present conflict.
4) The Almighty himself could part the clouds and say 'yeah, it is what it is and some people are born that way' and you still would be unwilling to accept that.
You are correct and I'm willing to wager its a choice for some special folks. I'm also willing to wager being that freely bisexual also has a great deal to do with biological impulses one has little to no control over.
5) 'In this forum'. Sure, the prevailing attitude in this forum will make you feel like you've won your merit badge on an internet debate.
Should you ever be willing to have a night out while visiting our nations capitol I'll be happy to introduce you to several people I know from work and in personal time that have backgrounds ranging from (micro) biological sciences, psychology, human genetic science and theory. I'm sure all would LOVE to hear your claims and would treat you with the utmost respect while eviscarating your proposed studies.
In short, no, I'm intelligent enough to know I would be wasting my time and not compulsive enough to have an itch overriding that thought process.
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Let me explain why that isn't going to happen.In rational debate on this forum I am sure I can match you study for study about homosexuality being a choice.
1) Ultimately why someone is gay means less than a shit to me. I have my everyday struggle with my faith that I must reconcile against truth and modern science. It's an internal battle that has lead me to the conclusion of 'it isn't me, doesn't effect me, let it be'.
2) I don't have the time nor care to exhaust on this forum or the bulk of its posters. As I've said before, it's an echo chamber where 4-5 people love being told how awesome and right they are.
3) my allegiance is to truth, credible science with as little bias or ulterior motive as humanly possible. I'm positive you can go 'study for study'. Im also positive yours will be from Christian science blogs, funded by prolife or religious advocate. There in lies the fundamental flaw with your argument. You can't be wrong because you're backbone is that God's Word deems it an abomination. Your allieigence is to God's Word THEN supporting conclusions. Mine is to truth, period. I have no dog in this fight. Again, i could not care less the reasons to why someone is queer. You cannot accept that the bulk are biologically programmed (born) that way which is an afront to your faith.
So our reasons for argument already present conflict.
4) The Almighty himself could part the clouds and say 'yeah, it is what it is and some people are born that way' and you still would be unwilling to accept that.
You are correct and I'm willing to wager its a choice for some special folks. I'm also willing to wager being that freely bisexual also has a great deal to do with biological impulses one has little to no control over.
5) 'In this forum'. Sure, the prevailing attitude in this forum will make you feel like you've won your merit badge on an internet debate.
Should you ever be willing to have a night out while visiting our nations capitol I'll be happy to introduce you to several people I know from work and in personal time that have backgrounds ranging from (micro) biological sciences, psychology, human genetic science and theory. I'm sure all would LOVE to hear your claims and would treat you with the utmost respect while eviscarating your proposed studies.
In short, no, I'm intelligent enough to know I would be wasting my time and not compulsive enough to have an itch overriding that thought process.
Let me explain why that isn't going to happen.
1) Ultimately why someone is gay means less than a shit to me. I have my everyday struggle with my faith that I must reconcile against truth and modern science. It's an internal battle that has lead me to the conclusion of 'it isn't me, doesn't effect me, let it be'. If someone chooses to be gay that is their choice just don't try and force me to accept it or condone it.
2) I don't have the time nor care to exhaust on this forum or the bulk of its posters. As I've said before, it's an echo chamber where 4-5 people love being told how awesome and right they are. You say this often and back you come to this forum. No problem but I don't see the need to belittle those who post here.
3) my allegiance is to truth, credible science with as little bias or ulterior motive as humanly possible. I'm positive you can go 'study for study'. Im also positive yours will be from Christian science blogs, funded by prolife or religious advocate. There in lies the fundamental flaw with your argument. You can't be wrong because you're backbone is that God's Word deems it an abomination. Your allieigence is to God's Word THEN supporting conclusions. Mine is to truth, period. I have no dog in this fight. Again, i could not care less the reasons to why someone is queer. You cannot accept that the bulk are biologically programmed (born) that way which is an afront to your faith. And there plenty of studies on this with no dog in the fight including some gay people who believe this lifestyle is a choice.
So our reasons for argument already present conflict.
4) The Almighty himself could part the clouds and say 'yeah, it is what it is and some people are born that way' and you still would be unwilling to accept that. Wrong but the Almighty has already spoken on this and condemned it as a sinful behavior which is why I cannot condone/approve of a lifestyle that is clearly called out as sin.
You are correct and I'm willing to wager its a choice for some special folks. I'm also willing to wager being that freely bisexual also has a great deal to do with biological impulses one has little to no control over. But we do have control, we are different than the animal world.
5) 'In this forum'. Sure, the prevailing attitude in this forum will make you feel like you've won your merit badge on an internet debate.I don't care about winning a debate as much as making sure I have as much rights as anyone else in the market place to express my views and beliefs.
Should you ever be willing to have a night out while visiting our nations capitol I'll be happy to introduce you to several people I know from work and in personal time that have backgrounds ranging from (micro) biological sciences, psychology, human genetic science and theory. I'm sure all would LOVE to hear your claims and would treat you with the utmost respect while eviscarating your proposed studies. And again we could have dueling studies and points and counter points. You act like your point of view on this is settled science when it is not.
In short, no, I'm intelligent enough to know I would be wasting my time and not compulsive enough to have an itch overriding that thought process. See you later on the forum.
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Post your most unbiased study OBF. I'll review it.
No one is forcing you to accept homosexuality. Just tolerate it and not discriminate.
(giant, that sure was a long post explaining why you can't lower yourself to our level and make long posts here....)
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Post your most unbiased study OBF. I'll review it.
No one is forcing you to accept homosexuality. Just tolerate it and not discriminate.
(giant, that sure was a long post explaining why you can't lower yourself to our level and make long posts here....)
Post your most unbiased study OBF. I'll review it.
No one is forcing you to accept homosexuality. Just tolerate it and not discriminate.
(giant, that sure was a long post explaining why you can't lower yourself to our level and make long posts here....)
My wife babysits for a woman who is gay and we are friends with her. She knows how we feel about it and can never approve of that lifestyle but it doesn't stop us from being friends. As a Christian these are matters of conscience. What you call discrimination at times works both ways. It works against people of faith who genuinely cannot in good conscience bake a cake for a gay wedding or cater a gay wedding so why cannot that be respected as well. It is not as if a gay couple cannot go to many other bakeries and catering services for their wedding so why force those with religious beliefs to do something that goes against their conscience?
Cal posted a number of studies already. I could post some more but it would go back to dueling studies. Tiam is right that I am biased as a Christian. If God condemns homosexuality as a sin and people are born that way and cannot help it then there is a problem in my faith as to God being just. So I am biased in believing that it is a behavior and a choice.
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Post your most unbiased study OBF. I'll review it.
No one is forcing you to accept homosexuality. Just tolerate it and not discriminate.
(giant, that sure was a long post explaining why you can't lower yourself to our level and make long posts here....)
My wife babysits for a woman who is gay and we are friends with her. She knows how we feel about it and can never approve of that lifestyle but it doesn't stop us from being friends. As a Christian these are matters of conscience. What you call discrimination at times works both ways. It works against people of faith who genuinely cannot in good conscience bake a cake for a gay wedding or cater a gay wedding so why cannot that be respected as well. It is not as if a gay couple cannot go to many other bakeries and catering services for their wedding so why force those with religious beliefs to do something that goes against their conscience?
Cal posted a number of studies already. I could post some more but it would go back to dueling studies. Tiam is right that I am biased as a Christian. If God condemns homosexuality as a sin and people are born that way and cannot help it then there is a problem in my faith as to God being just. So I am biased in believing that it is a behavior and a choice.
If God condemns homosexuality as a sin and people are born that way and cannot help it then there is a problem in my faith as to God being just. So I am biased in believing that it is a behavior and a choice.
or you could acknowledge that the jews just made it all up all those years ago.
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Whatever the repercussions I don't see how it could get much worse than making a small bakery owner pay well over a hundred thousand dollars for not making a wedding cake for a gay couple. I remember a small pizza parlor the left tried to put out of business because a Christian employee said they could not in good conscience cater a gay wedding. There have been plenty of repercussions already against the rights of religious beliefs under the Obama administration.
It's funny how the bible never comes out when it's time to feed the poor, welcome the homeless and love your neighbours, but if gay people ask you to bake a cake all of a sudden it's super relevant.
I take it you sleep in on Sundays then?It's funny how the bible never comes out when it's time to feed the poor, welcome the homeless and love your neighbours, but if gay people ask you to bake a cake all of a sudden it's super relevant.
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I take it you sleep in on Sundays then?
Go on...? (waiting for the gotcha)
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Post your most unbiased study OBF. I'll review it.
No one is forcing you to accept homosexuality. Just tolerate it and not discriminate.
(giant, that sure was a long post explaining why you can't lower yourself to our level and make long posts here....)
My wife babysits for a woman who is gay and we are friends with her. She knows how we feel about it and can never approve of that lifestyle but it doesn't stop us from being friends. As a Christian these are matters of conscience. What you call discrimination at times works both ways. It works against people of faith who genuinely cannot in good conscience bake a cake for a gay wedding or cater a gay wedding so why cannot that be respected as well. It is not as if a gay couple cannot go to many other bakeries and catering services for their wedding so why force those with religious beliefs to do something that goes against their conscience?
Cal posted a number of studies already. I could post some more but it would go back to dueling studies. Tiam is right that I am biased as a Christian. If God condemns homosexuality as a sin and people are born that way and cannot help it then there is a problem in my faith as to God being just. So I am biased in believing that it is a behavior and a choice.
It works against people of faith who genuinely cannot in good conscience bake a cake for a gay wedding or cater a gay wedding so why cannot that be respected as well.
So adapt. Have someone else at the store bake the cake.
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
I take it you sleep in on Sundays then?
Go on...? (waiting for the gotcha)
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It works against people of faith who genuinely cannot in good conscience bake a cake for a gay wedding or cater a gay wedding so why cannot that be respected as well.
So adapt. Have someone else at the store bake the cake.
So adapt. Have someone else at the store bake the cake.
And that is the answer sometimes. For example the Christian clerk in Kentucky forced to give marriage certificates to gay couples. If you read that story close the real problem was she had to issue marriage certificates with her name on them. That bothered her because it was against her beliefs and now she was handing out certificates for all to see signed by her as to something she doesn't agree with. The state's initial answer was not an accommodation or adaption for a person of faith but to throw her in jail for contempt. My understanding is a new governor in Kentucky did give her the accommodation and no longer were the marriage certificates stamped with her name on them.
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If God condemns homosexuality as a sin and people are born that way and cannot help it then there is a problem in my faith as to God being just. So I am biased in believing that it is a behavior and a choice.
or you could acknowledge that the jews just made it all up all those years ago.
or you could acknowledge that the jews just made it all up all those years ago.
They could never have made it up. Too many prophecies alone fulfilled with the odds being astronomical the fulfilled prophecies could have happened randomly or by chance. The oldest book in the bible is not Genesis it is Job. Right at the beginning Job lays out the problem. No matter how righteous he tries to be he can never stand before God, he is separated and there is no mediator between him and God to bridge the gap. The theme from the entire bible from the beginning to the end is about Jesus who would be that mediator. In the Old Testament they had the promise the Messiah would come but ironically and true the prophets prophecied when He would come they would not recognize Him and reject Him. And so it happened. The problem is the Old Testament painted two pictures of the Messiah. One is Him coming as a king of kings to rule and the other as a suffering servant taking the sins of the people. How could He be both? He comes twice. He came once already as the suffering servant taking the sins of the people, He will return as the king of kings.
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In rational debate on this forum I am sure I can match you study for study about homosexuality being a choice.
Rational debate is hard when one side admittedly rejects critical thinking for blind faith.
Rational debate is hard when one side admittedly rejects critical thinking for blind faith.
I will give you that point Woody but what I am saying is that there are others who are doing scientific studies who come at it more objectively with no dog in the fight except seeking the truth and I would refer you to those studies. In reality scientifically it cannot be proven either way right now if gays are born that way or it is a choice. My bias as a Christian is how can God be just in condemning a sin that people are "just born that way...not their fault". So it would take absolute proof to convince me otherwise it is not a choice behavior.
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Rational debate is hard when one side admittedly rejects critical thinking for blind faith.
I will give you that point Woody but what I am saying is that there are others who are doing scientific studies who come at it more objectively with no dog in the fight except seeking the truth and I would refer you to those studies. In reality scientifically it cannot be proven either way right now if gays are born that way or it is a choice. My bias as a Christian is how can God be just in condemning a sin that people are "just born that way...not their fault". So it would take absolute proof to convince me otherwise it is not a choice behavior.
I will give you that point Woody but what I am saying is that there are others who are doing scientific studies who come at it more objectively with no dog in the fight except seeking the truth and I would refer you to those studies. In reality scientifically it cannot be proven either way right now if gays are born that way or it is a choice. My bias as a Christian is how can God be just in condemning a sin that people are "just born that way...not their fault". So it would take absolute proof to convince me otherwise it is not a choice behavior.
Love the logic there. "God says it's a sin, so why would he make people gay? Clearly it's a choice"
And for the rest of us that, I'm sorry, don't give a shit what the bible says, and are able to entertain rational thought?
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I will give you that point Woody but what I am saying is that there are others who are doing scientific studies who come at it more objectively with no dog in the fight except seeking the truth and I would refer you to those studies. In reality scientifically it cannot be proven either way right now if gays are born that way or it is a choice. My bias as a Christian is how can God be just in condemning a sin that people are "just born that way...not their fault". So it would take absolute proof to convince me otherwise it is not a choice behavior.
Love the logic there. "God says it's a sin, so why would he make people gay? Clearly it's a choice"
And for the rest of us that, I'm sorry, don't give a shit what the bible says, and are able to entertain rational thought?
Love the logic there. "God says it's a sin, so why would he make people gay? Clearly it's a choice"
And for the rest of us that, I'm sorry, don't give a shit what the bible says, and are able to entertain rational thought?
When you are punished at the prescribed time, then you will give a shit. So enjoy.
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Love the logic there. "God says it's a sin, so why would he make people gay? Clearly it's a choice"
And for the rest of us that, I'm sorry, don't give a shit what the bible says, and are able to entertain rational thought?
When you are punished at the prescribed time, then you will give a shit. So enjoy.
You can't threaten me with something that doesn't exist.When you are punished at the prescribed time, then you will give a shit. So enjoy.
Actually, wait, *now* I get the scaremongering by republicans.
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You can't threaten me with something that doesn't exist.When you are punished at the prescribed time, then you will give a shit. So enjoy.
Actually, wait, *now* I get the scaremongering by republicans.
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I will give you that point Woody but what I am saying is that there are others who are doing scientific studies who come at it more objectively with no dog in the fight except seeking the truth and I would refer you to those studies. In reality scientifically it cannot be proven either way right now if gays are born that way or it is a choice. My bias as a Christian is how can God be just in condemning a sin that people are "just born that way...not their fault". So it would take absolute proof to convince me otherwise it is not a choice behavior.
Love the logic there. "God says it's a sin, so why would he make people gay? Clearly it's a choice"
And for the rest of us that, I'm sorry, don't give a shit what the bible says, and are able to entertain rational thought?
Love the logic there. "God says it's a sin, so why would he make people gay? Clearly it's a choice"
And for the rest of us that, I'm sorry, don't give a shit what the bible says, and are able to entertain rational thought?
You aren't reading my posts thoughtfully. I admit I come at the issue as biased because of my faith. So I come at the debate about being gay being a choice with studies from independent sources, scientists with no dog in the fight that support my bias towards the bible on the issue. I am not even using a biblical argument just admitting as a Christian I have a bias in believing being gay is a choice not biological. The gay friend my wife babysits for was married to a man once now she is living with a woman. These are choices she made.
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Love the logic there. "God says it's a sin, so why would he make people gay? Clearly it's a choice"
And for the rest of us that, I'm sorry, don't give a shit what the bible says, and are able to entertain rational thought?
You aren't reading my posts thoughtfully. I admit I come at the issue as biased because of my faith. So I come at the debate about being gay being a choice with studies from independent sources, scientists with no dog in the fight that support my bias towards the bible on the issue. I am not even using a biblical argument just admitting as a Christian I have a bias in believing being gay is a choice not biological. The gay friend my wife babysits for was married to a man once now she is living with a woman. These are choices she made.
You aren't reading my posts thoughtfully. I admit I come at the issue as biased because of my faith. So I come at the debate about being gay being a choice with studies from independent sources, scientists with no dog in the fight that support my bias towards the bible on the issue. I am not even using a biblical argument just admitting as a Christian I have a bias in believing being gay is a choice not biological. The gay friend my wife babysits for was married to a man once now she is living with a woman. These are choices she made.
My brothers wife's mother turned gay. Her husband died at age 49. He was banging his girl friend at the time. Big time trouble as you can imagine. I guess the gay gene all of the sudden kicked on in her mother, so she started carpet munching. Her oldest son, whom I saw at my mothers funeral told me, 'your mother will be in heaven, my mothers is going straight to hell'. They're Italian and very catholic.
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Love the logic there. "God says it's a sin, so why would he make people gay? Clearly it's a choice"
And for the rest of us that, I'm sorry, don't give a shit what the bible says, and are able to entertain rational thought?
You aren't reading my posts thoughtfully. I admit I come at the issue as biased because of my faith. So I come at the debate about being gay being a choice with studies from independent sources, scientists with no dog in the fight that support my bias towards the bible on the issue. I am not even using a biblical argument just admitting as a Christian I have a bias in believing being gay is a choice not biological. The gay friend my wife babysits for was married to a man once now she is living with a woman. These are choices she made.
Posted Today, 01:18 PM
OldBrownsFan, on 04 Feb 2017 - 11:41 AM, said:
You aren't reading my posts thoughtfully. I admit I come at the issue as biased because of my faith. So I come at the debate about being gay being a choice with studies from independent sources, scientists with no dog in the fight that support my bias towards the bible on the issue. I am not even using a biblical argument just admitting as a Christian I have a bias in believing being gay is a choice not biological. The gay friend my wife babysits for was married to a man once now she is living with a woman. These are choices she made.
My brothers wife's mother turned gay. Her husband died at age 49. He was banging his girl friend at the time. Big time trouble as you can imagine. I guess the gay gene all of the sudden kicked on in her mother, so she started carpet munching. Her oldest son, whom I saw at my mothers funeral told me, 'your mother will be in heaven, my mothers is going straight to hell'. They're Italian and very catholic.
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