Trump’s New Religious Freedom Executive Order Is Little Short Of Awesome
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I take it you sleep in on Sundays then?
Go on...? (waiting for the gotcha)
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Post your most unbiased study OBF. I'll review it.
No one is forcing you to accept homosexuality. Just tolerate it and not discriminate.
(giant, that sure was a long post explaining why you can't lower yourself to our level and make long posts here....)
My wife babysits for a woman who is gay and we are friends with her. She knows how we feel about it and can never approve of that lifestyle but it doesn't stop us from being friends. As a Christian these are matters of conscience. What you call discrimination at times works both ways. It works against people of faith who genuinely cannot in good conscience bake a cake for a gay wedding or cater a gay wedding so why cannot that be respected as well. It is not as if a gay couple cannot go to many other bakeries and catering services for their wedding so why force those with religious beliefs to do something that goes against their conscience?
Cal posted a number of studies already. I could post some more but it would go back to dueling studies. Tiam is right that I am biased as a Christian. If God condemns homosexuality as a sin and people are born that way and cannot help it then there is a problem in my faith as to God being just. So I am biased in believing that it is a behavior and a choice.
It works against people of faith who genuinely cannot in good conscience bake a cake for a gay wedding or cater a gay wedding so why cannot that be respected as well.
So adapt. Have someone else at the store bake the cake.
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
I take it you sleep in on Sundays then?
Go on...? (waiting for the gotcha)
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It works against people of faith who genuinely cannot in good conscience bake a cake for a gay wedding or cater a gay wedding so why cannot that be respected as well.
So adapt. Have someone else at the store bake the cake.
So adapt. Have someone else at the store bake the cake.
And that is the answer sometimes. For example the Christian clerk in Kentucky forced to give marriage certificates to gay couples. If you read that story close the real problem was she had to issue marriage certificates with her name on them. That bothered her because it was against her beliefs and now she was handing out certificates for all to see signed by her as to something she doesn't agree with. The state's initial answer was not an accommodation or adaption for a person of faith but to throw her in jail for contempt. My understanding is a new governor in Kentucky did give her the accommodation and no longer were the marriage certificates stamped with her name on them.
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If God condemns homosexuality as a sin and people are born that way and cannot help it then there is a problem in my faith as to God being just. So I am biased in believing that it is a behavior and a choice.
or you could acknowledge that the jews just made it all up all those years ago.
or you could acknowledge that the jews just made it all up all those years ago.
They could never have made it up. Too many prophecies alone fulfilled with the odds being astronomical the fulfilled prophecies could have happened randomly or by chance. The oldest book in the bible is not Genesis it is Job. Right at the beginning Job lays out the problem. No matter how righteous he tries to be he can never stand before God, he is separated and there is no mediator between him and God to bridge the gap. The theme from the entire bible from the beginning to the end is about Jesus who would be that mediator. In the Old Testament they had the promise the Messiah would come but ironically and true the prophets prophecied when He would come they would not recognize Him and reject Him. And so it happened. The problem is the Old Testament painted two pictures of the Messiah. One is Him coming as a king of kings to rule and the other as a suffering servant taking the sins of the people. How could He be both? He comes twice. He came once already as the suffering servant taking the sins of the people, He will return as the king of kings.
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In rational debate on this forum I am sure I can match you study for study about homosexuality being a choice.
Rational debate is hard when one side admittedly rejects critical thinking for blind faith.
Rational debate is hard when one side admittedly rejects critical thinking for blind faith.
I will give you that point Woody but what I am saying is that there are others who are doing scientific studies who come at it more objectively with no dog in the fight except seeking the truth and I would refer you to those studies. In reality scientifically it cannot be proven either way right now if gays are born that way or it is a choice. My bias as a Christian is how can God be just in condemning a sin that people are "just born that way...not their fault". So it would take absolute proof to convince me otherwise it is not a choice behavior.
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Rational debate is hard when one side admittedly rejects critical thinking for blind faith.
I will give you that point Woody but what I am saying is that there are others who are doing scientific studies who come at it more objectively with no dog in the fight except seeking the truth and I would refer you to those studies. In reality scientifically it cannot be proven either way right now if gays are born that way or it is a choice. My bias as a Christian is how can God be just in condemning a sin that people are "just born that way...not their fault". So it would take absolute proof to convince me otherwise it is not a choice behavior.
I will give you that point Woody but what I am saying is that there are others who are doing scientific studies who come at it more objectively with no dog in the fight except seeking the truth and I would refer you to those studies. In reality scientifically it cannot be proven either way right now if gays are born that way or it is a choice. My bias as a Christian is how can God be just in condemning a sin that people are "just born that way...not their fault". So it would take absolute proof to convince me otherwise it is not a choice behavior.
Love the logic there. "God says it's a sin, so why would he make people gay? Clearly it's a choice"
And for the rest of us that, I'm sorry, don't give a shit what the bible says, and are able to entertain rational thought?
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I will give you that point Woody but what I am saying is that there are others who are doing scientific studies who come at it more objectively with no dog in the fight except seeking the truth and I would refer you to those studies. In reality scientifically it cannot be proven either way right now if gays are born that way or it is a choice. My bias as a Christian is how can God be just in condemning a sin that people are "just born that way...not their fault". So it would take absolute proof to convince me otherwise it is not a choice behavior.
Love the logic there. "God says it's a sin, so why would he make people gay? Clearly it's a choice"
And for the rest of us that, I'm sorry, don't give a shit what the bible says, and are able to entertain rational thought?
Love the logic there. "God says it's a sin, so why would he make people gay? Clearly it's a choice"
And for the rest of us that, I'm sorry, don't give a shit what the bible says, and are able to entertain rational thought?
When you are punished at the prescribed time, then you will give a shit. So enjoy.
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Love the logic there. "God says it's a sin, so why would he make people gay? Clearly it's a choice"
And for the rest of us that, I'm sorry, don't give a shit what the bible says, and are able to entertain rational thought?
When you are punished at the prescribed time, then you will give a shit. So enjoy.
You can't threaten me with something that doesn't exist.When you are punished at the prescribed time, then you will give a shit. So enjoy.
Actually, wait, *now* I get the scaremongering by republicans.
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You can't threaten me with something that doesn't exist.When you are punished at the prescribed time, then you will give a shit. So enjoy.
Actually, wait, *now* I get the scaremongering by republicans.
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I will give you that point Woody but what I am saying is that there are others who are doing scientific studies who come at it more objectively with no dog in the fight except seeking the truth and I would refer you to those studies. In reality scientifically it cannot be proven either way right now if gays are born that way or it is a choice. My bias as a Christian is how can God be just in condemning a sin that people are "just born that way...not their fault". So it would take absolute proof to convince me otherwise it is not a choice behavior.
Love the logic there. "God says it's a sin, so why would he make people gay? Clearly it's a choice"
And for the rest of us that, I'm sorry, don't give a shit what the bible says, and are able to entertain rational thought?
Love the logic there. "God says it's a sin, so why would he make people gay? Clearly it's a choice"
And for the rest of us that, I'm sorry, don't give a shit what the bible says, and are able to entertain rational thought?
You aren't reading my posts thoughtfully. I admit I come at the issue as biased because of my faith. So I come at the debate about being gay being a choice with studies from independent sources, scientists with no dog in the fight that support my bias towards the bible on the issue. I am not even using a biblical argument just admitting as a Christian I have a bias in believing being gay is a choice not biological. The gay friend my wife babysits for was married to a man once now she is living with a woman. These are choices she made.
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Love the logic there. "God says it's a sin, so why would he make people gay? Clearly it's a choice"
And for the rest of us that, I'm sorry, don't give a shit what the bible says, and are able to entertain rational thought?
You aren't reading my posts thoughtfully. I admit I come at the issue as biased because of my faith. So I come at the debate about being gay being a choice with studies from independent sources, scientists with no dog in the fight that support my bias towards the bible on the issue. I am not even using a biblical argument just admitting as a Christian I have a bias in believing being gay is a choice not biological. The gay friend my wife babysits for was married to a man once now she is living with a woman. These are choices she made.
You aren't reading my posts thoughtfully. I admit I come at the issue as biased because of my faith. So I come at the debate about being gay being a choice with studies from independent sources, scientists with no dog in the fight that support my bias towards the bible on the issue. I am not even using a biblical argument just admitting as a Christian I have a bias in believing being gay is a choice not biological. The gay friend my wife babysits for was married to a man once now she is living with a woman. These are choices she made.
My brothers wife's mother turned gay. Her husband died at age 49. He was banging his girl friend at the time. Big time trouble as you can imagine. I guess the gay gene all of the sudden kicked on in her mother, so she started carpet munching. Her oldest son, whom I saw at my mothers funeral told me, 'your mother will be in heaven, my mothers is going straight to hell'. They're Italian and very catholic.
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Love the logic there. "God says it's a sin, so why would he make people gay? Clearly it's a choice"
And for the rest of us that, I'm sorry, don't give a shit what the bible says, and are able to entertain rational thought?
You aren't reading my posts thoughtfully. I admit I come at the issue as biased because of my faith. So I come at the debate about being gay being a choice with studies from independent sources, scientists with no dog in the fight that support my bias towards the bible on the issue. I am not even using a biblical argument just admitting as a Christian I have a bias in believing being gay is a choice not biological. The gay friend my wife babysits for was married to a man once now she is living with a woman. These are choices she made.
Posted Today, 01:18 PM
OldBrownsFan, on 04 Feb 2017 - 11:41 AM, said:
You aren't reading my posts thoughtfully. I admit I come at the issue as biased because of my faith. So I come at the debate about being gay being a choice with studies from independent sources, scientists with no dog in the fight that support my bias towards the bible on the issue. I am not even using a biblical argument just admitting as a Christian I have a bias in believing being gay is a choice not biological. The gay friend my wife babysits for was married to a man once now she is living with a woman. These are choices she made.
My brothers wife's mother turned gay. Her husband died at age 49. He was banging his girl friend at the time. Big time trouble as you can imagine. I guess the gay gene all of the sudden kicked on in her mother, so she started carpet munching. Her oldest son, whom I saw at my mothers funeral told me, 'your mother will be in heaven, my mothers is going straight to hell'. They're Italian and very catholic.
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OBF, I'd still be interested in viewing what you think is a non biased study showing it's a choice.
I also agree with Chris. So much of the Bible is ignored but not baking a cake for a gay couple is strictly upheld. And if I bring one instance up, we'll probably get another verse interpreted in a way to make ignoring the first OK
But at the end of the day, if you take blind faith over critical thought, you've willingly mentally handicapped yourself and your opinion on a subject is severely compromised.
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
Rational debate is hard when one side admittedly rejects critical thinking for blind faith.
I will give you that point Woody but what I am saying is that there are others who are doing scientific studies who come at it more objectively with no dog in the fight except seeking the truth and I would refer you to those studies. In reality scientifically it cannot be proven either way right now if gays are born that way or it is a choice. My bias as a Christian is how can God be just in condemning a sin that people are "just born that way...not their fault". So it would take absolute proof to convince me otherwise it is not a choice behavior.
My bias as a Christian is how can God be just in condemning a sin that people are "just born that way...not their fault". So it would take absolute proof to convince me otherwise it is not a choice behavior.
Wait Wait Wait. Now you're using that argument?
God births a child to a Muslim family. Child dies young, never learned of Christianity. Child goes to hell, correct?
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
child does? Children are protected. Learn something instead of just asking stupid
questions.
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OBF, I'd still be interested in viewing what you think is a non biased study showing it's a choice.
I also agree with Chris. So much of the Bible is ignored but not baking a cake for a gay couple is strictly upheld. And if I bring one instance up, we'll probably get another verse interpreted in a way to make ignoring the first OK
But at the end of the day, if you take blind faith over critical thought, you've willingly mentally handicapped yourself and your opinion on a subject is severely compromised.
OBF, I'd still be interested in viewing what you think is a non biased study showing it's a choice.
I also agree with Chris. So much of the Bible is ignored but not baking a cake for a gay couple is strictly upheld. And if I bring one instance up, we'll probably get another verse interpreted in a way to make ignoring the first OK
But at the end of the day, if you take blind faith over critical thought, you've willingly mentally handicapped yourself and your opinion on a subject is severely compromised.
Here are 12 passages that discuss how Christians should treat immigrants, refugees and those in need of help.
Love Refugees As Yourself
When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. (Leviticus 19:33-34)
Leave Food for the Poor and the Foreigner
When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the foreigner. (Leviticus 19:9-10)
God Loves the Foreigner Residing Among You
He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the foreigner residing among you, giving them food and clothing. And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt. (Deuteronomy 10:18-19)
The Sin of Sodom: They Did Not Help the Poor and Needy
Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. (Ezekiel 16:49)
Do Not Oppress a Foreigner
Do not oppress a foreigner; you yourselves know how it feels to be foreigners, because you were foreigners in Egypt. (Exodus 23:9)
Do Not Deprive Foreigners Among You of Justice
"So I will come to put you on trial. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive the foreigners among you of justice, but do not fear me, says the Lord Almighty. (Malachi 3:5)
Do Whatever the Foreigner Asks of You
As for the foreigner who does not belong to your people Israel but has come from a distant land because of your name for they will hear of your great name and your mighty hand and your outstretched armwhen they come and pray toward this temple, then hear from heaven, your dwelling place. Do whatever the foreigner asks of you, so that all the peoples of the earth may know your name and fear you, as do your own people Israel, and may know that this house I have built bears your Name. (1 Kings 8:41-44)
Leave Your Door Open to the Traveler
No stranger had to spend the night in the street, for my door was always open to the traveler (Job, discussing his devotion to God) (Job 31:32)
Invite the Stranger In
For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. (Matthew 25:25-36)
We Were All Baptized By One Spirit
Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one bodywhether Jews or Gentiles, slave or freeand we were all given the one Spirit to drink. Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many. (1 Corinthians 12:12-14)
Love Your Neighbor as Yourself
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: Love your neighbor as yourself." (Galatians 5:14)
Have Mercy on Your Neighbor
He asked Jesus, And who is my neighbor?
In reply Jesus said: A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper. Look after him, he said, and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.
Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?
The expert in the law replied, The one who had mercy on him.
Jesus told him, Go and do likewise." (Luke 10:29-37)
Read more at http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/what-bible-says-about-how-treat-refugees#kAfObf6GrzerRHbZ.99
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
child does? Children are protected. Learn something instead of just asking stupid
questions.
child does? Children are protected. Learn something instead of just asking stupid
questions.
We've been told on here before they go to hell.
How about someone that lives to adulthood without ever having learned of Christianity? Do they go to hell?
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
I don't believe you have been told that ever. Look, take some time, Woody,
and read up. It's complicated....
I'm no Bible scholar, obviously, but:
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/what-happens-to-those-who-never-hear-gospel
age of accountability:
http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/where-do-babies-go-if-they-die-do-they-go-to-heaven-or-hell/
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But osiris, to be fair, the bible isn't thinking that some of those foreigners have a small chance...but still a chance....of pulling out a machete and rampaging through your home.
I have zero issue with Muslims that want to come here and be american first muslim second, as i feel someone of any religion ought to feel...im part of this soceity first my religion comes second. Period end of discussion. The societal function is paramount. You have to acknowledge that there's a small pernicious group of muslim that want to filter into the U.S to set up terror cells. And they can do alot of dmg. I don't have the answer on how to distinguish between them. So "for now", Trumps path is probably the correct path but it has to be done withouth the undertone of racism that he has allowed to creep in.
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