Hindsight is 20/20, but still!
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It is just amazing. Here I was just doing a little research and found it interesting so I posted it and everyone wants to whine that I posted it. Here we go, I hardly ever post anyway. Just read what you guys have to say, and all the people who think they know a lot. So I will just let you guys discuss things, and I will just read from now on. Have a great day and god bless
It is just amazing. Here I was just doing a little research and found it interesting so I posted it and everyone wants to whine that I posted it. Here we go, I hardly ever post anyway. Just read what you guys have to say, and all the people who think they know a lot. So I will just let you guys discuss things, and I will just read from now on. Have a great day and god bless
Don't wrench your shoulder too hard patting yourself on the back over the fact that you made post on the Browns board.
What kind of a response were you expecting.
Solid, in depth, cogent discussion of all the Browns drafting failures? It is something we all know. It has been a farcical, ridiculous aspect of the Browns history...and you want us to be serious about it? Not likely to happen.
Maybe you could have spent your time considering this: All the Hall of Famers the Browns had give up on early in their career:
Traded away Doug Atkins
Traded away Henry Jordan
Traded away Willie Davis
Traded away Dick LeBeau
Traded away Len Dawson
Traded away Paul Warfield
Plus, how many other good players have they let loose of.
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I just thought it was interesting. Especially when considering some of the stuff I read from people on here. I havent been reading that long, couple years maybe, but it is certainly interesting to read the opinions of people on here. Just take one of the most talked about points recently, Jimmy Garappolo. What I have read most people do not want him, with people saying things like look at the history of other QB's from New England or if New England wants to trade him then there must be a reason. I am sorry if you dont agree, and everyone has a right to their opinion, and doesn't make me right, but JG is NOT Matt Cassell or others. Just because some others haven't worked out doesn't mean he wouldn't. And NE has a history of not paying a lot of people and getting rid of people before they have to pay them. I can certainly remember when there was a Camp Jimmy G on here, and now that he has spent a couple years in the best organization in the NFL he has gotten worse? So because others have seemed to be system QB then he must be too? Maybe NE does feel like Brady will be around for a few more years and don't want to let JG walk next year for nothing, or they don't want that huge franchise tag to pay him, or maybe they also like what they see in Brissett? I don't know, and I am not saying the Browns should trade for him, and certainly not saying giving up a 1st round pick for him, but just because someone else didn't work out doesn't mean someone else wouldn't.
And then there is the love for the college QB's, especially Trubisky. There is just as much a chance that he is worse than Jimmy G than not. The young man hasn't played a down in the NFL, and we have seen Jimmy G play and play well, so exactly what makes him more valuable? Because he is a college QB? Because he is bigger? Because he is the highest rated QB? Because he is from Ohio? Since I like this research, and now the entire NFL, since 2000, these are the 1st round QB's:
2000: Chad Pennington- best QB from year: 6th Round Tom Brady
2001: Michael Vick- best QB from year: 2nd Round Drew Brees
2002: David Carr, Joey Harrington, and Patrick Ramsey- best QB from draft: probably 3rd round Josh McCown
2003: Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman- best QB from draft: Carson Palmer
2004: Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, JP Losman- best QB from draft: the top 3 have all been very good
2005: Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell- best QB from draft: Aaron Rodgers
2006: Vince Young, Matt Leinhart, Jay Cutler- best QB from draft: Jay Cutler but doesn't say much
2007: Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn- best QB from draft: Nobody really
2008: Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco- best QB from draft: Matt Ryan
2009: Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman- best QB from draft- Matt Stafford
2010: Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow- best QB from draft- Sam Bradford but doesn't say much
2011: Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder- best QB from draft: 2nd round Andy Dalton
2012: Andrew Luck, RG3, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden- best QB from draft: I would say 3rd round Russell Wilson
2013: EJ Manuel- best QB from draft: Nobody really
2014: Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Twatwater- best QB from draft: Derek Carr
2015: Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota- best QB from draft: both have been pretty good
2016: Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, and Paxton Lynch- best QB from draft: 4th round Dak Prescott
So that is 17 years. Best QB from draft has been a 1st rounder 8 of the 17 years, with 6 of the 17 being good QB's. 45 QB's taken in 1st round since 2000. If I were the Browns, there are at best 15 I would have liked as my starter in that time, so 33%. There are 8 drafted after 1st round that would be good to have.
I am not saying shouldn't draft one, not in the slightest. I don't see bad in either Mitch or at time Watson, but what makes people think so highly of a draft pick over someone in the NFL already? Or better yet, since the topic has been Jimmy G, how many teams in the NFL would he be the starter for? At least 12. Here are the teams I think have a better option than him. New England, Baltimore, Cinncinati (50/50), Pittsburgh, Indy, Tennessee, Kansas City, Oakland, San Diego, Dallas, New York, Washington (50/50), Detroit, Green Bay, Atlanta, Carolina, New Orleans Tampa Bay, Arizona, Seattle. I hope whatever the Browns decide, its the right thing, whether it is someone on another roster, someone on the Browns roster, or a college player
As for what I think the Browns should do? Whatever makes them better. I am not really in a "camp" because there are so many other variables to it then just a single player. I guess that may be the difference, and I guess it can be good and bad, but I look at any team I am watching in a coaches mindset and not a fans like most do. But I think I would go defense
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I just thought it was interesting. Especially when considering some of the stuff I read from people on here. I havent been reading that long, couple years maybe, but it is certainly interesting to read the opinions of people on here. Just take one of the most talked about points recently, Jimmy Garappolo. What I have read most people do not want him, with people saying things like look at the history of other QB's from New England or if New England wants to trade him then there must be a reason. I am sorry if you dont agree, and everyone has a right to their opinion, and doesn't make me right, but JG is NOT Matt Cassell or others. Just because some others haven't worked out doesn't mean he wouldn't. And NE has a history of not paying a lot of people and getting rid of people before they have to pay them. I can certainly remember when there was a Camp Jimmy G on here, and now that he has spent a couple years in the best organization in the NFL he has gotten worse? So because others have seemed to be system QB then he must be too? Maybe NE does feel like Brady will be around for a few more years and don't want to let JG walk next year for nothing, or they don't want that huge franchise tag to pay him, or maybe they also like what they see in Brissett? I don't know, and I am not saying the Browns should trade for him, and certainly not saying giving up a 1st round pick for him, but just because someone else didn't work out doesn't mean someone else wouldn't.
And then there is the love for the college QB's, especially Trubisky. There is just as much a chance that he is worse than Jimmy G than not. The young man hasn't played a down in the NFL, and we have seen Jimmy G play and play well, so exactly what makes him more valuable? Because he is a college QB? Because he is bigger? Because he is the highest rated QB? Because he is from Ohio? Since I like this research, and now the entire NFL, since 2000, these are the 1st round QB's:
2000: Chad Pennington- best QB from year: 6th Round Tom Brady
2001: Michael Vick- best QB from year: 2nd Round Drew Brees
2002: David Carr, Joey Harrington, and Patrick Ramsey- best QB from draft: probably 3rd round Josh McCown
2003: Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman- best QB from draft: Carson Palmer
2004: Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, JP Losman- best QB from draft: the top 3 have all been very good
2005: Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell- best QB from draft: Aaron Rodgers
2006: Vince Young, Matt Leinhart, Jay Cutler- best QB from draft: Jay Cutler but doesn't say much
2007: Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn- best QB from draft: Nobody really
2008: Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco- best QB from draft: Matt Ryan
2009: Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman- best QB from draft- Matt Stafford
2010: Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow- best QB from draft- Sam Bradford but doesn't say much
2011: Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder- best QB from draft: 2nd round Andy Dalton
2012: Andrew Luck, RG3, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden- best QB from draft: I would say 3rd round Russell Wilson
2013: EJ Manuel- best QB from draft: Nobody really
2014: Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Twatwater- best QB from draft: Derek Carr
2015: Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota- best QB from draft: both have been pretty good
2016: Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, and Paxton Lynch- best QB from draft: 4th round Dak Prescott
So that is 17 years. Best QB from draft has been a 1st rounder 8 of the 17 years, with 6 of the 17 being good QB's. 45 QB's taken in 1st round since 2000. If I were the Browns, there are at best 15 I would have liked as my starter in that time, so 33%. There are 8 drafted after 1st round that would be good to have.
I am not saying shouldn't draft one, not in the slightest. I don't see bad in either Mitch or at time Watson, but what makes people think so highly of a draft pick over someone in the NFL already? Or better yet, since the topic has been Jimmy G, how many teams in the NFL would he be the starter for? At least 12. Here are the teams I think have a better option than him. New England, Baltimore, Cinncinati (50/50), Pittsburgh, Indy, Tennessee, Kansas City, Oakland, San Diego, Dallas, New York, Washington (50/50), Detroit, Green Bay, Atlanta, Carolina, New Orleans Tampa Bay, Arizona, Seattle. I hope whatever the Browns decide, its the right thing, whether it is someone on another roster, someone on the Browns roster, or a college player
As for what I think the Browns should do? Whatever makes them better. I am not really in a "camp" because there are so many other variables to it then just a single player. I guess that may be the difference, and I guess it can be good and bad, but I look at any team I am watching in a coaches mindset and not a fans like most do. But I think I would go defense
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Excellent bottom line!
Cuz StoneCold AG says so..Did you know or has it been posted, that Allen has had surgery on both shoulders? call in our crack medical team.
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Excellent bottom line!
Cuz StoneCold AG says so..Did you know or has it been posted, that Allen has had surgery on both shoulders? call in our crack medical team.
Cuz StoneCold AG says so..Did you know or has it been posted, that Allen has had surgery on both shoulders? call in our crack medical team.
Nope cuz I am admittedly biased towards building great defense and this is a phenomenal class to do that with. He came back his senior season so he could get shoulder surgery and move into the 1st round of the draft. I'd say after this past season that both goals were more than attained.
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I just thought it was interesting. Especially when considering some of the stuff I read from people on here. I havent been reading that long, couple years maybe, but it is certainly interesting to read the opinions of people on here. Just take one of the most talked about points recently, Jimmy Garappolo. What I have read most people do not want him, with people saying things like look at the history of other QB's from New England or if New England wants to trade him then there must be a reason. I am sorry if you dont agree, and everyone has a right to their opinion, and doesn't make me right, but JG is NOT Matt Cassell or others. Just because some others haven't worked out doesn't mean he wouldn't. And NE has a history of not paying a lot of people and getting rid of people before they have to pay them. I can certainly remember when there was a Camp Jimmy G on here, and now that he has spent a couple years in the best organization in the NFL he has gotten worse? So because others have seemed to be system QB then he must be too? Maybe NE does feel like Brady will be around for a few more years and don't want to let JG walk next year for nothing, or they don't want that huge franchise tag to pay him, or maybe they also like what they see in Brissett? I don't know, and I am not saying the Browns should trade for him, and certainly not saying giving up a 1st round pick for him, but just because someone else didn't work out doesn't mean someone else wouldn't.
And then there is the love for the college QB's, especially Trubisky. There is just as much a chance that he is worse than Jimmy G than not. The young man hasn't played a down in the NFL, and we have seen Jimmy G play and play well, so exactly what makes him more valuable? Because he is a college QB? Because he is bigger? Because he is the highest rated QB? Because he is from Ohio? Since I like this research, and now the entire NFL, since 2000, these are the 1st round QB's:
2000: Chad Pennington- best QB from year: 6th Round Tom Brady
2001: Michael Vick- best QB from year: 2nd Round Drew Brees
2002: David Carr, Joey Harrington, and Patrick Ramsey- best QB from draft: probably 3rd round Josh McCown
2003: Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman- best QB from draft: Carson Palmer
2004: Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, JP Losman- best QB from draft: the top 3 have all been very good
2005: Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell- best QB from draft: Aaron Rodgers
2006: Vince Young, Matt Leinhart, Jay Cutler- best QB from draft: Jay Cutler but doesn't say much
2007: Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn- best QB from draft: Nobody really
2008: Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco- best QB from draft: Matt Ryan
2009: Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman- best QB from draft- Matt Stafford
2010: Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow- best QB from draft- Sam Bradford but doesn't say much
2011: Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder- best QB from draft: 2nd round Andy Dalton
2012: Andrew Luck, RG3, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden- best QB from draft: I would say 3rd round Russell Wilson
2013: EJ Manuel- best QB from draft: Nobody really
2014: Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Twatwater- best QB from draft: Derek Carr
2015: Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota- best QB from draft: both have been pretty good
2016: Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, and Paxton Lynch- best QB from draft: 4th round Dak Prescott
So that is 17 years. Best QB from draft has been a 1st rounder 8 of the 17 years, with 6 of the 17 being good QB's. 45 QB's taken in 1st round since 2000. If I were the Browns, there are at best 15 I would have liked as my starter in that time, so 33%. There are 8 drafted after 1st round that would be good to have.
I am not saying shouldn't draft one, not in the slightest. I don't see bad in either Mitch or at time Watson, but what makes people think so highly of a draft pick over someone in the NFL already? Or better yet, since the topic has been Jimmy G, how many teams in the NFL would he be the starter for? At least 12. Here are the teams I think have a better option than him. New England, Baltimore, Cinncinati (50/50), Pittsburgh, Indy, Tennessee, Kansas City, Oakland, San Diego, Dallas, New York, Washington (50/50), Detroit, Green Bay, Atlanta, Carolina, New Orleans Tampa Bay, Arizona, Seattle. I hope whatever the Browns decide, its the right thing, whether it is someone on another roster, someone on the Browns roster, or a college player
As for what I think the Browns should do? Whatever makes them better. I am not really in a "camp" because there are so many other variables to it then just a single player. I guess that may be the difference, and I guess it can be good and bad, but I look at any team I am watching in a coaches mindset and not a fans like most do. But I think I would go defense
I just thought it was interesting.
As for what I think the Browns should do? Whatever makes them better. I am not really in a "camp" because there are so many other variables to it then just a single player. I guess that may be the difference, and I guess it can be good and bad, but I look at any team I am watching in a coaches mindset and not a fans like most do. But I think I would go defense
And it, as in lamenting past errors, has been interesting at some point for just about everyone here, but now it's only about Sashi & Co. and where, if anywhere, they will take us. Their 2016 performance was mixed, but makes sense in a "grand scheme" I think I see. This 2017 off-season should be a lot more revealing... and one can argue the early returns, i.e., the Collins trade and signing, are encouraging.
But the rest of your last post was good stuff... very good stuff... researched... reasoned... spell-checked...
Welcome to the fray.
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I just thought it was interesting. Especially when considering some of the stuff I read from people on here. I havent been reading that long, couple years maybe, but it is certainly interesting to read the opinions of people on here. Just take one of the most talked about points recently, Jimmy Garappolo. What I have read most people do not want him, with people saying things like look at the history of other QB's from New England or if New England wants to trade him then there must be a reason. I am sorry if you dont agree, and everyone has a right to their opinion, and doesn't make me right, but JG is NOT Matt Cassell or others. Just because some others haven't worked out doesn't mean he wouldn't. And NE has a history of not paying a lot of people and getting rid of people before they have to pay them. I can certainly remember when there was a Camp Jimmy G on here, and now that he has spent a couple years in the best organization in the NFL he has gotten worse? So because others have seemed to be system QB then he must be too? Maybe NE does feel like Brady will be around for a few more years and don't want to let JG walk next year for nothing, or they don't want that huge franchise tag to pay him, or maybe they also like what they see in Brissett? I don't know, and I am not saying the Browns should trade for him, and certainly not saying giving up a 1st round pick for him, but just because someone else didn't work out doesn't mean someone else wouldn't.
And then there is the love for the college QB's, especially Trubisky. There is just as much a chance that he is worse than Jimmy G than not. The young man hasn't played a down in the NFL, and we have seen Jimmy G play and play well, so exactly what makes him more valuable? Because he is a college QB? Because he is bigger? Because he is the highest rated QB? Because he is from Ohio? Since I like this research, and now the entire NFL, since 2000, these are the 1st round QB's:
2000: Chad Pennington- best QB from year: 6th Round Tom Brady
2001: Michael Vick- best QB from year: 2nd Round Drew Brees
2002: David Carr, Joey Harrington, and Patrick Ramsey- best QB from draft: probably 3rd round Josh McCown
2003: Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman- best QB from draft: Carson Palmer
2004: Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, JP Losman- best QB from draft: the top 3 have all been very good
2005: Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell- best QB from draft: Aaron Rodgers
2006: Vince Young, Matt Leinhart, Jay Cutler- best QB from draft: Jay Cutler but doesn't say much
2007: Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn- best QB from draft: Nobody really
2008: Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco- best QB from draft: Matt Ryan
2009: Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman- best QB from draft- Matt Stafford
2010: Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow- best QB from draft- Sam Bradford but doesn't say much
2011: Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder- best QB from draft: 2nd round Andy Dalton
2012: Andrew Luck, RG3, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden- best QB from draft: I would say 3rd round Russell Wilson
2013: EJ Manuel- best QB from draft: Nobody really
2014: Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Twatwater- best QB from draft: Derek Carr
2015: Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota- best QB from draft: both have been pretty good
2016: Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, and Paxton Lynch- best QB from draft: 4th round Dak Prescott
So that is 17 years. Best QB from draft has been a 1st rounder 8 of the 17 years, with 6 of the 17 being good QB's. 45 QB's taken in 1st round since 2000. If I were the Browns, there are at best 15 I would have liked as my starter in that time, so 33%. There are 8 drafted after 1st round that would be good to have.
I am not saying shouldn't draft one, not in the slightest. I don't see bad in either Mitch or at time Watson, but what makes people think so highly of a draft pick over someone in the NFL already? Or better yet, since the topic has been Jimmy G, how many teams in the NFL would he be the starter for? At least 12. Here are the teams I think have a better option than him. New England, Baltimore, Cinncinati (50/50), Pittsburgh, Indy, Tennessee, Kansas City, Oakland, San Diego, Dallas, New York, Washington (50/50), Detroit, Green Bay, Atlanta, Carolina, New Orleans Tampa Bay, Arizona, Seattle. I hope whatever the Browns decide, its the right thing, whether it is someone on another roster, someone on the Browns roster, or a college player
As for what I think the Browns should do? Whatever makes them better. I am not really in a "camp" because there are so many other variables to it then just a single player. I guess that may be the difference, and I guess it can be good and bad, but I look at any team I am watching in a coaches mindset and not a fans like most do. But I think I would go defense
I just thought it was interesting. Especially when considering some of the stuff I read from people on here. I havent been reading that long, couple years maybe, but it is certainly interesting to read the opinions of people on here. Just take one of the most talked about points recently, Jimmy Garappolo. What I have read most people do not want him, with people saying things like look at the history of other QB's from New England or if New England wants to trade him then there must be a reason. I am sorry if you dont agree, and everyone has a right to their opinion, and doesn't make me right, but JG is NOT Matt Cassell or others. Just because some others haven't worked out doesn't mean he wouldn't. And NE has a history of not paying a lot of people and getting rid of people before they have to pay them. I can certainly remember when there was a Camp Jimmy G on here, and now that he has spent a couple years in the best organization in the NFL he has gotten worse? So because others have seemed to be system QB then he must be too? Maybe NE does feel like Brady will be around for a few more years and don't want to let JG walk next year for nothing, or they don't want that huge franchise tag to pay him, or maybe they also like what they see in Brissett? I don't know, and I am not saying the Browns should trade for him, and certainly not saying giving up a 1st round pick for him, but just because someone else didn't work out doesn't mean someone else wouldn't.
And then there is the love for the college QB's, especially Trubisky. There is just as much a chance that he is worse than Jimmy G than not. The young man hasn't played a down in the NFL, and we have seen Jimmy G play and play well, so exactly what makes him more valuable? Because he is a college QB? Because he is bigger? Because he is the highest rated QB? Because he is from Ohio? Since I like this research, and now the entire NFL, since 2000, these are the 1st round QB's:
2000: Chad Pennington- best QB from year: 6th Round Tom Brady
2001: Michael Vick- best QB from year: 2nd Round Drew Brees
2002: David Carr, Joey Harrington, and Patrick Ramsey- best QB from draft: probably 3rd round Josh McCown
2003: Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman- best QB from draft: Carson Palmer
2004: Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, JP Losman- best QB from draft: the top 3 have all been very good
2005: Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell- best QB from draft: Aaron Rodgers
2006: Vince Young, Matt Leinhart, Jay Cutler- best QB from draft: Jay Cutler but doesn't say much
2007: Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn- best QB from draft: Nobody really
2008: Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco- best QB from draft: Matt Ryan
2009: Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman- best QB from draft- Matt Stafford
2010: Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow- best QB from draft- Sam Bradford but doesn't say much
2011: Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder- best QB from draft: 2nd round Andy Dalton
2012: Andrew Luck, RG3, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden- best QB from draft: I would say 3rd round Russell Wilson
2013: EJ Manuel- best QB from draft: Nobody really
2014: Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Twatwater- best QB from draft: Derek Carr
2015: Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota- best QB from draft: both have been pretty good
2016: Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, and Paxton Lynch- best QB from draft: 4th round Dak Prescott
So that is 17 years. Best QB from draft has been a 1st rounder 8 of the 17 years, with 6 of the 17 being good QB's. 45 QB's taken in 1st round since 2000. If I were the Browns, there are at best 15 I would have liked as my starter in that time, so 33%. There are 8 drafted after 1st round that would be good to have.
I am not saying shouldn't draft one, not in the slightest. I don't see bad in either Mitch or at time Watson, but what makes people think so highly of a draft pick over someone in the NFL already? Or better yet, since the topic has been Jimmy G, how many teams in the NFL would he be the starter for? At least 12. Here are the teams I think have a better option than him. New England, Baltimore, Cinncinati (50/50), Pittsburgh, Indy, Tennessee, Kansas City, Oakland, San Diego, Dallas, New York, Washington (50/50), Detroit, Green Bay, Atlanta, Carolina, New Orleans Tampa Bay, Arizona, Seattle. I hope whatever the Browns decide, its the right thing, whether it is someone on another roster, someone on the Browns roster, or a college player
As for what I think the Browns should do? Whatever makes them better. I am not really in a "camp" because there are so many other variables to it then just a single player. I guess that may be the difference, and I guess it can be good and bad, but I look at any team I am watching in a coaches mindset and not a fans like most do. But I think I would go defense
Well stated. I was, and remain, a JG fan & prefer to obtain his services. That being said & being a Browns' fan, I will support whatever decision is made.
As far as your question I have bolded, I think, in our society, a lot of folks are in love with the "unknown" as the possibilities for excellence seem limitless hence the desire for a draftee. We'l see what happens.
Mike
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I just thought it was interesting. Especially when considering some of the stuff I read from people on here. I havent been reading that long, couple years maybe, but it is certainly interesting to read the opinions of people on here. Just take one of the most talked about points recently, Jimmy Garappolo. What I have read most people do not want him, with people saying things like look at the history of other QB's from New England or if New England wants to trade him then there must be a reason. I am sorry if you dont agree, and everyone has a right to their opinion, and doesn't make me right, but JG is NOT Matt Cassell or others. Just because some others haven't worked out doesn't mean he wouldn't. And NE has a history of not paying a lot of people and getting rid of people before they have to pay them. I can certainly remember when there was a Camp Jimmy G on here, and now that he has spent a couple years in the best organization in the NFL he has gotten worse? So because others have seemed to be system QB then he must be too? Maybe NE does feel like Brady will be around for a few more years and don't want to let JG walk next year for nothing, or they don't want that huge franchise tag to pay him, or maybe they also like what they see in Brissett? I don't know, and I am not saying the Browns should trade for him, and certainly not saying giving up a 1st round pick for him, but just because someone else didn't work out doesn't mean someone else wouldn't.
And then there is the love for the college QB's, especially Trubisky. There is just as much a chance that he is worse than Jimmy G than not. The young man hasn't played a down in the NFL, and we have seen Jimmy G play and play well, so exactly what makes him more valuable? Because he is a college QB? Because he is bigger? Because he is the highest rated QB? Because he is from Ohio? Since I like this research, and now the entire NFL, since 2000, these are the 1st round QB's:
2000: Chad Pennington- best QB from year: 6th Round Tom Brady
2001: Michael Vick- best QB from year: 2nd Round Drew Brees
2002: David Carr, Joey Harrington, and Patrick Ramsey- best QB from draft: probably 3rd round Josh McCown
2003: Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman- best QB from draft: Carson Palmer
2004: Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, JP Losman- best QB from draft: the top 3 have all been very good
2005: Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell- best QB from draft: Aaron Rodgers
2006: Vince Young, Matt Leinhart, Jay Cutler- best QB from draft: Jay Cutler but doesn't say much
2007: Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn- best QB from draft: Nobody really
2008: Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco- best QB from draft: Matt Ryan
2009: Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman- best QB from draft- Matt Stafford
2010: Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow- best QB from draft- Sam Bradford but doesn't say much
2011: Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder- best QB from draft: 2nd round Andy Dalton
2012: Andrew Luck, RG3, Ryan Tannehill, Brandon Weeden- best QB from draft: I would say 3rd round Russell Wilson
2013: EJ Manuel- best QB from draft: Nobody really
2014: Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, Teddy Twatwater- best QB from draft: Derek Carr
2015: Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota- best QB from draft: both have been pretty good
2016: Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, and Paxton Lynch- best QB from draft: 4th round Dak Prescott
So that is 17 years. Best QB from draft has been a 1st rounder 8 of the 17 years, with 6 of the 17 being good QB's. 45 QB's taken in 1st round since 2000. If I were the Browns, there are at best 15 I would have liked as my starter in that time, so 33%. There are 8 drafted after 1st round that would be good to have.
I am not saying shouldn't draft one, not in the slightest. I don't see bad in either Mitch or at time Watson, but what makes people think so highly of a draft pick over someone in the NFL already? Or better yet, since the topic has been Jimmy G, how many teams in the NFL would he be the starter for? At least 12. Here are the teams I think have a better option than him. New England, Baltimore, Cinncinati (50/50), Pittsburgh, Indy, Tennessee, Kansas City, Oakland, San Diego, Dallas, New York, Washington (50/50), Detroit, Green Bay, Atlanta, Carolina, New Orleans Tampa Bay, Arizona, Seattle. I hope whatever the Browns decide, its the right thing, whether it is someone on another roster, someone on the Browns roster, or a college player
As for what I think the Browns should do? Whatever makes them better. I am not really in a "camp" because there are so many other variables to it then just a single player. I guess that may be the difference, and I guess it can be good and bad, but I look at any team I am watching in a coaches mindset and not a fans like most do. But I think I would go defense
Well stated. I was, and remain, a JG fan & prefer to obtain his services. That being said & being a Browns' fan, I will support whatever decision is made.
As far as your question I have bolded, I think, in our society, a lot of folks are in love with the "unknown" as the possibilities for excellence seem limitless hence the desire for a draftee. We'l see what happens.
Mike
As far as your question I have bolded, I think, in our society, a lot of folks are in love with the "unknown" as the possibilities for excellence seem limitless hence the desire for a draftee. We'l see what happens.
Prospects' promise plus price tag and the hope of solidifying the position for a decade and change...
Kaep is 29+... TT 27.5... JG 25.3...
\Mitch would turn 23 late in camp.
Kizer just turned 22.
Watson will turn 22 the day before I do in Sept...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
2011: Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder- best QB from draft: 2nd round Andy Dalton
Do you really think that Andy Dalton has been a better QB than Cam Newton?
Kinda blows your whole credibility with that statement.
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It is just amazing. Here I was just doing a little research and found it interesting so I posted it and everyone wants to whine that I posted it. Here we go, I hardly ever post anyway. Just read what you guys have to say, and all the people who think they know a lot. So I will just let you guys discuss things, and I will just read from now on. Have a great day and god bless
Nah... stay...
If you've read much here, then you have to know that hindsight is something we've grown weary of. Try a fresher topic... preferably a forward looking one.
Tis the season for FAs and the draft. Spend your time there. No guarantees that your take(s) will be embraced, but that's part of the fun.
Are you on board with Garrett at #1 overall or have another prospect in mind?
Nah... stay...
If you've read much here, then you have to know that hindsight is something we've grown weary of. Try a fresher topic... preferably a forward looking one.
Tis the season for FAs and the draft. Spend your time there. No guarantees that your take(s) will be embraced, but that's part of the fun.
Are you on board with Garrett at #1 overall or have another prospect in mind?
Post of the Day
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2011: Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder- best QB from draft: 2nd round Andy Dalton
Do you really think that Andy Dalton has been a better QB than Cam Newton?
Kinda blows your whole credibility with that statement.
2011: Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder- best QB from draft: 2nd round Andy Dalton
Do you really think that Andy Dalton has been a better QB than Cam Newton?
Kinda blows your whole credibility with that statement.
Oops, they must have crossed my eyes in the writing. No I think Cam is way better than Dalton. I can admit when I am wrong, even though the wrong was just a mistake.
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2011: Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder- best QB from draft: 2nd round Andy Dalton
Do you really think that Andy Dalton has been a better QB than Cam Newton?
Kinda blows your whole credibility with that statement.
Oops, they must have crossed my eyes in the writing. No I think Cam is way better than Dalton. I can admit when I am wrong, even though the wrong was just a mistake.
Oops, they must have crossed my eyes in the writing. No I think Cam is way better than Dalton. I can admit when I am wrong, even though the wrong was just a mistake.
Yea, I figured it was just a mistake or oversight.
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As far as your question I have bolded, I think, in our society, a lot of folks are in love with the "unknown" as the possibilities for excellence seem limitless hence the desire for a draftee. We'l see what happens.
Prospects' promise plus price tag and the hope of solidifying the position for a decade and change...
Kaep is 29+... TT 27.5... JG 25.3...
\Mitch would turn 23 late in camp.
Kizer just turned 22.
Watson will turn 22 the day before I do in Sept...
Prospects' promise plus price tag and the hope of solidifying the position for a decade and change...
Kaep is 29+... TT 27.5... JG 25.3...
\Mitch would turn 23 late in camp.
Kizer just turned 22.
Watson will turn 22 the day before I do in Sept...
Last year, Jared Goff almost 28 million and 18.5 million guaranteed, Carson Wentz almost 27 million and 17.5 guaranteed, and Paxton Lynch 9.5 million and 5 million guaranteed. Jimmy Garoppolo in 2017- $820,077 salary and $75,000 workout bonus. He would be cheaper this year, but then more expensive. But like I said I don't mind these college QB's, its just something I don't understand with the league. Like I said I look at things coach wise, and of course that in kids and amateurs and I will admit I am much more into college than pros. My dad is a Browns fan, so thats why I am. There are probably 3 in the state of Virginia. But anyway, I don't get teams, not just one, or fans want of a draft pick over someone you have seen. There are examples all over the league of "x player' who was pretty good being traded for this draft pick. But there are also examples of teams giving up too much compensation for a proven player i.e. Sam Bradford.
With all that said, I am in Camp hit on a lot of picks
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Yea, I figured it was just a mistake or oversight.
In fact, Cincy was one of places I think would be 50/50 with a Jimmy replacement. There is only 1 place in NFL that you could say is in better position than New England at QB with back up and that is Dallas. But Brady tips the scale in New England favor
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Yea, I figured it was just a mistake or oversight.
In fact, Cincy was one of places I think would be 50/50 with a Jimmy replacement. There is only 1 place in NFL that you could say is in better position than New England at QB with back up and that is Dallas. But Brady tips the scale in New England favor
In fact, Cincy was one of places I think would be 50/50 with a Jimmy replacement. There is only 1 place in NFL that you could say is in better position than New England at QB with back up and that is Dallas. But Brady tips the scale in New England favor
Yea, no. Honestly, I do not see Romo by any means as the best "backup QB" in the league.
Good question though....what team does have the best starter/backup combination. New England is certainly in the running....but I won't hand it to them without more in depth discussion.
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Lets look at these by conference. Here are the starters and backups for each AFC team per Ourlads Who has the best combo?:
Bills: Tyrod Taylor, EJ Manuel
Dolphins: Tannehill, Matt Moore
Pats: Brady, Garropolo
Jets: Geno Smith, Bryce Petty
Ravens: Flacco, Ryan Mallet
Bengals: Dalton, AJ McCarron
Browns: Griffin, Kessler
Steelers: Roeth. Landry Jones
Texans: Osweiler, Tom Savage
Colts: Luck, Scott Tolzein
Jags: Bortles, Chad Henne
Tits: Mariota, Matt Cassell
Broncos: Trevor Siemian, Paxton Lynch
Chiefs: Alex Smith, Nick Foles
Chargers: Rivers, Kellen Clemens
Raiders: Carr, Matt McGloin
Who is best in AFC?
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In fact, Cincy was one of places I think would be 50/50 with a Jimmy replacement. There is only 1 place in NFL that you could say is in better position than New England at QB with back up and that is Dallas. But Brady tips the scale in New England favor
Yea, no. Honestly, I do not see Romo by any means as the best "backup QB" in the league.
Good question though....what team does have the best starter/backup combination. New England is certainly in the running....but I won't hand it to them without more in depth discussion.
Yea, no. Honestly, I do not see Romo by any means as the best "backup QB" in the league.
Good question though....what team does have the best starter/backup combination. New England is certainly in the running....but I won't hand it to them without more in depth discussion.
I dunno, Tony Romo is a very good QB. Only question is health. Just go back to last time he played a lot, he was high in mvp race.
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Lets look at these by conference. Here are the starters and backups for each AFC team per Ourlads Who has the best combo?:
Bills: Tyrod Taylor, EJ Manuel
Dolphins: Tannehill, Matt Moore
Pats: Brady, Garropolo
Jets: Geno Smith, Bryce Petty
Ravens: Flacco, Ryan Mallet
Bengals: Dalton, AJ McCarron
Browns: Griffin, Kessler
Steelers: Roeth. Landry Jones
Texans: Osweiler, Tom Savage
Colts: Luck, Scott Tolzein
Jags: Bortles, Chad Henne
Tits: Mariota, Matt Cassell
Broncos: Trevor Siemian, Paxton Lynch
Chiefs: Alex Smith, Nick Foles
Chargers: Rivers, Kellen Clemens
Raiders: Carr, Matt McGloin
Who is best in AFC?
Lets look at these by conference. Here are the starters and backups for each AFC team per Ourlads Who has the best combo?:
Bills: Tyrod Taylor, EJ Manuel
Dolphins: Tannehill, Matt Moore
Pats: Brady, Garropolo
Jets: Geno Smith, Bryce Petty
Ravens: Flacco, Ryan Mallet
Bengals: Dalton, AJ McCarron
Browns: Griffin, Kessler
Steelers: Roeth. Landry Jones
Texans: Osweiler, Tom Savage
Colts: Luck, Scott Tolzein
Jags: Bortles, Chad Henne
Tits: Mariota, Matt Cassell
Broncos: Trevor Siemian, Paxton Lynch
Chiefs: Alex Smith, Nick Foles
Chargers: Rivers, Kellen Clemens
Raiders: Carr, Matt McGloin
Who is best in AFC?
New England easily
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