QB Questions
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Nevertheless, he's a no-doubt franchise QB.
In your mind perhaps... I prefer to speak for myself.
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Sure, you have a few outliers in terms of franchise QBs.....but, in the history of the NFL, at least recently.....the better, franchise QBs generally get drafted early. Its just a fact.
While true Gips, can we stop pretending the Blaine Gabberts, Matt Leinarts, Ryan Leafs, RG3s, Cade McNowns, Akili Smiths, Jake Lockers, Mike Phipps, Brandon Weedens, Brady Quinns, Jamarcus Russells, Partick Ramseys, JP Losmans, Joey Harringtons, Kyle Bollers, and countless other bad first round picks at QB do not exist?
Nobody on this board used to have as much fun as you pointing out how many QBs that were drafted after round 1 went on to very successful NFL careers inclusive of SB Sundays. That is, prior to a recent QB prospect that played high school ball in Mentor, Ohio came along to change your fondness of those takes. Am I fair or right in pointing this out to you?
While true Gips, can we stop pretending the Blaine Gabberts, Matt Leinarts, Ryan Leafs, RG3s, Cade McNowns, Akili Smiths, Jake Lockers, Mike Phipps, Brandon Weedens, Brady Quinns, Jamarcus Russells, Partick Ramseys, JP Losmans, Joey Harringtons, Kyle Bollers, and countless other bad first round picks at QB do not exist?
Nobody on this board used to have as much fun as you pointing out how many QBs that were drafted after round 1 went on to very successful NFL careers inclusive of SB Sundays. That is, prior to a recent QB prospect that played high school ball in Mentor, Ohio came along to change your fondness of those takes. Am I fair or right in pointing this out to you?
Oh no, of course, everything you say is correct. In fact, I even said that taking MT is a risk...which I am fully aware of, and am fully willing to accept that risk.
I guess the point is...which you make...is that taking a QB in round one really is a 50/50 proposition. (Or in the Browns case...a 0/100 proposition
) But, the further you go down....the risk is even worse. Lets put it this way as I have checked. Since 2000, there have been 40 QBs taken in round 6. Only 2 of them can be said to have had solid NFL careers. Of course, one guy may have had the best career of any QB taken anytime anywhere...Mr. Brady. But then ONLY Marc Bulger can be said to have had a plus career as a 6th round QB. (Note: Derek Anderson and Tyrod Taylor also 6th rounders...but I cannot in all honesty say they have had productive careers)
So, for 6th rounders it is like a 5/95 proposition.
And I suspect that if I did all the rounds from 2 on down, those percentages would be worse than the round 1 pct.
So...yes, absolutely, taking a 1st round QB is a risk....half of them bust. But some times a team has to take a chance...even if it is a 50/50 chance of working.
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And Mike Mayock weighs in:
Mayock: I'd be scared to death to draft QB in top 10 this year
NFL clubs that are considering taking a quarterback with one of the top 10 picks of the 2017 draft do so at their own peril.
Clemson's Deshaun Watson, North Carolina's Mitch Trubisky and Notre Dame's DeShone Kizer are considered three of the most promising options in a relatively weak pool of draftable quarterbacks, and NFL Network draft expert Mike Mayock left little doubt about whether any of them merit a top-10 selection in the draft.
"All three of these quarterbacks, to me, I would be scared to death in the top 10," Mayock told The College Draft podcast.
The Cleveland Browns certainly have a need at the position, and hold the No. 1 overall pick, as well as the No. 12 pick. If NFL clubs see the quarterback field as Mayock does, the Browns could potentially address a different position with the No. 1 pick and still have their pick of any quarterback at No. 12. Other clubs with a top 10-pick and a quarterback need include the San Francisco 49ers, Chicago Bears and New York Jets.
Mayock addressed concerns on each of Watson, Trubisky and Kizer. Whether Watson has the ability to maintain accuracy when his first read is not open, particularly while remaining in the pocket, is among the questions NFL clubs will want answered about him, per Mayock. As for Trubisky, who was a backup at UNC to Marquise Williams for two seasons prior to 2016, a lack of college experience for a one-year starter is a top concern.
"If (Trubisky is) so talented and gifted, and a top-10-type pick, one of the first questions a lot of teams are asking is, why couldn't he beat out Marquise Williams the last couple years at North Carolina? What's the answer to that one?," Mayock said.
Mayock believes Kizer has the highest ceiling of the three, but his play at critical times for the Fighting Irish wasn't impressive.
"The problem I have is that (Kizer's) pocket mechanics seem to break down at the worst times. He got removed in the fourth quarter from two or three games last year. He got replaced at Stanford, he got replaced at USC. I've watched five of his games so far, and in almost every game at critical times, the pocket mechanics, the feel in the pocket, the decisions you're making with the football, seems to break down when the team needs him the most."
As tempting as it might be for an NFL club to address the most important position on the field with the best any given draft has to offer, drafting for need over value is reputed to be a bad strategy.
And if the teams needing a quarterback stick to value-based picks early in the draft, the top QBs could slide for a while.Mike is a very smaert man... especially when he agrees with me...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
And DJ is on the same page as I posted on the other draft thread. Neither thinks any of the QBs belong in the top 10 overall. Those are the two pickers I respect the most.
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Last year, both Mayock and Polian said that no QB in that draft was worth taking in the first round. Look what happened.
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Last year, both Mayock and Polian said that no QB in that draft was worth taking in the first round. Look what happened.
Last year, both Mayock and Polian said that no QB in that draft was worth taking in the first round. Look what happened.
I would say at this point they right in more cases than wrong. Goff is horrible. Wentz is very very average.
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Last year, both Mayock and Polian said that no QB in that draft was worth taking in the first round. Look what happened.
Last year, both Mayock and Polian said that no QB in that draft was worth taking in the first round. Look what happened.
And you agreed. Now you don't. So it's pretty irrelevant.
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Last year, both Mayock and Polian said that no QB in that draft was worth taking in the first round. Look what happened.
And you agreed. Now you don't. So it's pretty irrelevant.
And you agreed. Now you don't. So it's pretty irrelevant.
Everything we do and say here is irrelevent. But yes, I disagree with them this year? You got a problem handling a diversity of opinion?
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I'm just not sure what citing them does here.
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And you agreed. Now you don't. So it's pretty irrelevant.
Everything we do and say here is irrelevent. But yes, I disagree with them this year? You got a problem handling a diversity of opinion?
Everything we do and say here is irrelevent. But yes, I disagree with them this year? You got a problem handling a diversity of opinion?
It's that one year you hold these guys as the bastion of footballing knowledge - they say this, so clearly this is the case, and you also happen to agree. Now a year later, their football knowledge is in fact, not all that and a bag of potato crisps, and it's the opinion contrary to yours.
So, to the outsider, the obviously very false impression you give is that you pick and choose who you put on a footballing pedestal based on whether they agree with you or not.
Does that clear up the problem 'handling a diversity of opinion'?
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Everything we do and say here is irrelevent. But yes, I disagree with them this year? You got a problem handling a diversity of opinion?
It's that one year you hold these guys as the bastion of footballing knowledge - they say this, so clearly this is the case, and you also happen to agree. Now a year later, their football knowledge is in fact, not all that and a bag of potato crisps, and it's the opinion contrary to yours.
So, to the outsider, the obviously very false impression you give is that you pick and choose who you put on a footballing pedestal based on whether they agree with you or not.
Does that clear up the problem 'handling a diversity of opinion'?
It's that one year you hold these guys as the bastion of footballing knowledge - they say this, so clearly this is the case, and you also happen to agree. Now a year later, their football knowledge is in fact, not all that and a bag of potato crisps, and it's the opinion contrary to yours.
So, to the outsider, the obviously very false impression you give is that you pick and choose who you put on a footballing pedestal based on whether they agree with you or not.
Does that clear up the problem 'handling a diversity of opinion'?
You see, there is a difference......yes, my opinion does differ this year from what they said about last year's group of QBs.
As in all walks of life, one person may have 100 opinions....and I may agree with half of them and not agree with another half of them. I said I agreed with Polian on his opinion about Garropolo, but that I disagreed with him here. I may agree or disagree with both or either of them again on something sometime. Is that going to upset you?
Is that not allowed? If I agree with somebody on one thing am I obligated to agree with everything they say forever and ever? I think not.
But, some people on here seem to take it as a personal affront that I don't agree with their opinions on the QB issue etc. They want to block me or ignore me or chastise me over that opinion.
I, on the other hand, have no problem if others have the opinion that we should draft the DL or whatever. They have valid reasons for those opinions, but I just disagree on what our priorities should be there. I don't threaten to ignore them or block them, and I don't throw a conniption fit because they disagree with me.
Ergo, I clearly am not the one that has trouble accepting a diversity of opinion.
Does that clear things up for you?
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How about "inconsistency of opinion"?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
How about "inconsistency of opinion"?
Self reference?
Or do you also think that just because I have agreed with a person one time....that I must agree with him over and over and over and over again. Guess what? Life does not work that way. Where is the inconsistency in saying: I think MT is a far better prospect than Goff/Wentz etc. were. I have not wavered, I have not stuttered.
In fact, in some grading system that someone posted on here, it said that MTs grade was the highest that had come out in like 4-5 years.
Again...it seems that what it is you saying "if you don't agree with me, then you are inconsistent".
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And Mike Mayock weighs in:
Mayock: I'd be scared to death to draft QB in top 10 this year
NFL clubs that are considering taking a quarterback with one of the top 10 picks of the 2017 draft do so at their own peril.
Clemson's Deshaun Watson, North Carolina's Mitch Trubisky and Notre Dame's DeShone Kizer are considered three of the most promising options in a relatively weak pool of draftable quarterbacks, and NFL Network draft expert Mike Mayock left little doubt about whether any of them merit a top-10 selection in the draft.
"All three of these quarterbacks, to me, I would be scared to death in the top 10," Mayock told The College Draft podcast.
The Cleveland Browns certainly have a need at the position, and hold the No. 1 overall pick, as well as the No. 12 pick. If NFL clubs see the quarterback field as Mayock does, the Browns could potentially address a different position with the No. 1 pick and still have their pick of any quarterback at No. 12. Other clubs with a top 10-pick and a quarterback need include the San Francisco 49ers, Chicago Bears and New York Jets.
Mayock addressed concerns on each of Watson, Trubisky and Kizer. Whether Watson has the ability to maintain accuracy when his first read is not open, particularly while remaining in the pocket, is among the questions NFL clubs will want answered about him, per Mayock. As for Trubisky, who was a backup at UNC to Marquise Williams for two seasons prior to 2016, a lack of college experience for a one-year starter is a top concern.
"If (Trubisky is) so talented and gifted, and a top-10-type pick, one of the first questions a lot of teams are asking is, why couldn't he beat out Marquise Williams the last couple years at North Carolina? What's the answer to that one?," Mayock said.
Mayock believes Kizer has the highest ceiling of the three, but his play at critical times for the Fighting Irish wasn't impressive.
"The problem I have is that (Kizer's) pocket mechanics seem to break down at the worst times. He got removed in the fourth quarter from two or three games last year. He got replaced at Stanford, he got replaced at USC. I've watched five of his games so far, and in almost every game at critical times, the pocket mechanics, the feel in the pocket, the decisions you're making with the football, seems to break down when the team needs him the most."
As tempting as it might be for an NFL club to address the most important position on the field with the best any given draft has to offer, drafting for need over value is reputed to be a bad strategy.
And if the teams needing a quarterback stick to value-based picks early in the draft, the top QBs could slide for a while.Mike is a very smaert man... especially when he agrees with me...
And Mike Mayock weighs in:
Mayock: I'd be scared to death to draft QB in top 10 this year
Mike is a very smaert man... especially when he agrees with me...And we can't disagree with his opinion? I'd be happy as a pig in mud if Mitch slid to #12. Only complaint- lack of experience? In other words, he looked pretty good this year- but.
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And Mike Mayock weighs in:
Mayock: I'd be scared to death to draft QB in top 10 this year
Mike is a very smaert man... especially when he agrees with me...And we can't disagree with his opinion? I'd be happy as a pig in mud if Mitch slid to #12. Only complaint- lack of experience? In other words, he looked pretty good this year- but.
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Mitch is only 5'4", see how he towers over his 4'6" mother. . .
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Mitch looks like a Pizza Hut shift manager with an awesome sound system in his Buick Roadmaster.
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And Mike Mayock weighs in:
Mayock: I'd be scared to death to draft QB in top 10 this year
Mike is a very smaert man... especially when he agrees with me...And we can't disagree with his opinion? I'd be happy as a pig in mud if Mitch slid to #12. Only complaint- lack of experience? In other words, he looked pretty good this year- but.
And we can't disagree with his opinion? I'd be happy as a pig in mud if Mitch slid to #12. Only complaint- lack of experience? In other words, he looked pretty good this year- but.
Pretty sure there was nothing in my post prohibiting disagreement, but until you can be as happy as a "pig in shit", your endorsement falls short on convincing.
Mitch looks like a Pizza Hut shift manager with an awesome sound system in his Buick Roadmaster.
lol... The Roadmaster must have a "reverb" speaker in the rear. Loved how they "twanged" going over RR tracks.
And we have an early contender for Trub's, all-important nickname should we draft him... "Pizza Hut".
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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