Can This Draft Start like our 1978 Draft?
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I can see us going Garrett, and Howard.
second round, cb (deep in cb's) and OT.
third round, OG, the big guy.
fourth round, QB.
I wonder if the Browns might trade down with the Bears.
They can get Trubisky, maybe the niners go qb or allen
maybe the Browns still get Garrett and a couple of extra high picks...
Maybe a whole lot of crazy stuff. But I think Howard is a future all-pro TE,
that will be the Browns' qb's best friend, and a dramatic immediate impact player.
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I'd love Howard with that second pick.
But I don't see him being available for us.
I'd do fucking back flips though.
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DJ actually has Miami's TE one spot above OJ in his best 50 prospects list. One or the other would still be there @ #12 if that is the direction we go. Naturally I prefer more D help, but that is my bias on building a competitive team. But, that being said, if one of those was BPA, I'd have to go with him. We need this entire draft to be governed by BPA for a change, even if it means going against my bias towards D.
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We can't block or defend but hey a TE as the 12th pick, great call
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DJ actually has Miami's TE one spot above OJ in his best 50 prospects list. One or the other would still be there @ #12 if that is the direction we go. Naturally I prefer more D help, but that is my bias on building a competitive team. But, that being said, if one of those was BPA, I'd have to go with him. We need this entire draft to be governed by BPA for a change, even if it means going against my bias towards D.
We need this entire draft to be governed by BPA for a change, even if it means going against my bias towards D.
Totally agree with this and I'm pretty sure this FO won't fall into the "need" trap
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We can't block or defend but hey a TE as the 12th pick, great call
We can't block or defend but hey a TE as the 12th pick, great call
Since this is your 2nd fuss about Howard in the same thread I'll specify what jumped off the screen at me as to why I think of him differently than I usually think of TEs in the 1st round. When Alabama beat Clemson in the National Championship a year ago - the X-factor as depicted in the 6 minute video I linked below is OJ Howard. I have even provided how many minutes:seconds into the video each of his big plays occurred.
0:45 he seals off the outside for Henry's long TD run after making some good blocks leading up to that play
1:11 he has a 23 yard reception
2:45 he has a 53 yard TD reception
3:52 he has a 20 yard rec
5:15 he has a 52 yard TD reception
6:00 he has a 57 yard reception
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/o-j-howard-vs-clemson-2015/
So, why would a team needing more blocking and play makers on offense and defense want to consider OJ Howard after it drafts the defensive pick of the litter at #1 overall with the understanding it can resume with drafting defense again at #33 overall?
1) He's a 6'6" target with a gigantic catch radius and catches every pass with his hands.
2) He gets open a lot or he wouldn't have had almost 200 yards receiving in the Championship.
3) He has the wheels to run away from a top ranked defense as the 3 different catches over 50 yards showed.
4) While his blocking needs refinement and little more consistency, he has some good blocks on film.
5) He had also made the most of his limited playing time at the Senior Bowl with about 85 yards or so in less than a half.
This doesn't seem like your usual TE to me; so it brought back memories of the last/only time we got 2 picks right in round 1. That included someone destined to be a Hall of Fame TE (Ozzie Newsome). Howard is built more like Shannon Sharpe than Ozzie Newsome though which means he projects more dual purpose than Ozzie had particularly at setting/sealing the edge. While I understand your concern somewhat, defensive guys like Foster, Allen, Hooker, Adams, and others will probably already be gone before #12 anyway. We're also getting the highest paid talent in our front 7 back from injury (Des Bryant) which will feel like a new addition with fresh legs. Bryant can line up inside or outside in any front Williams wants to go with. We can also sign a free agent or two on defense along the way since we have a lot more spending money than most teams.
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TE's drafted in the 1st round the last 10 years
2016 - 0
2015 - 0
2014 - Eric Ebron 10th - Lions
2013 - Tyler Eifert 21st - Bengals
2012 - 0
2011 - 0
2010 - Jermaine Gresham 21st - Bengals
2009 - Brandon Pettigrew 20th - Lions
2008 - Dustin Keller 30th - Jets
2007 - Greg Olsen 30th - Bears
Olsen only one worth a first round pick in that list. You can clearly see Ebron only one going 1-19 and you want us to look at #12? While I won't dismiss taking a TE in round 1, top 20 better be the next coming of Gronk and you better have the offense to put him in.
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TE's drafted in the 1st round the last 10 years
2016 - 0
2015 - 0
2014 - Eric Ebron 10th - Lions
2013 - Tyler Eifert 21st - Bengals
2012 - 0
2011 - 0
2010 - Jermaine Gresham 21st - Bengals
2009 - Brandon Pettigrew 20th - Lions
2008 - Dustin Keller 30th - Jets
2007 - Greg Olsen 30th - Bears
Olsen only one worth a first round pick in that list. You can clearly see Ebron only one going 1-19 and you want us to look at #12? While I won't dismiss taking a TE in round 1, top 20 better be the next coming of Gronk and you better have the offense to put him in.
TE's drafted in the 1st round the last 10 years
2016 - 0
2015 - 0
2014 - Eric Ebron 10th - Lions
2013 - Tyler Eifert 21st - Bengals
2012 - 0
2011 - 0
2010 - Jermaine Gresham 21st - Bengals
2009 - Brandon Pettigrew 20th - Lions
2008 - Dustin Keller 30th - Jets
2007 - Greg Olsen 30th - Bears
Olsen only one worth a first round pick in that list. You can clearly see Ebron only one going 1-19 and you want us to look at #12? While I won't dismiss taking a TE in round 1, top 20 better be the next coming of Gronk and you better have the offense to put him in.
He's not any of those guys so I encourage you to watch the video. I gave you what to look for. Why are you so terrified to watch it? It's because you know he might actually intrigue you the way he's been intriguing scouts. I have zero to do with why he's flying up the charts. You may want to educate yourself as to why and how it's happening.
Some years there's a reason to value a position more than others. Your excuses why you don't want to even watch his highlights are because Jermaine Gresham and Brandon Pettigrew didn't work out? Really? Okay, if we're going to go the similar conference/school route for the same projected NFL position - Ozzie DID work out and OJ Howard is from the same school looking to be a 1st round NFL TE as well. BTW, Eifert had 13 TD receptions in 2015 back when Cincy won the AFC North with a 12-4 record while Greg Olsen had a Pro Bowl season for the SB bound Carolina Panthers despite missing their #1 WR Kelvin Benjamin all year. The year the Ratbirds won their first SB - their leading receiver (who also prevented Dilfer from hanging Dilfer) was Shannon Sharpe. Drew Brees' best receiver when New Orleans won a SB was TE Jimmy Graham.
Watch the video. If you still feel it would be much smarter for us to hand OJ Howard to Baltimore or Pittsburgh instead of drafting him I'll make sure you never stop getting credit for such wisdom. I promise.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Olsen only one worth a first round pick in that list. bacon
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I'm calling bullhocksies on that.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82860152/article/best-firstround-tight-ends-of-the-last-decade
1. Vernon Davis, 49ers (No. 6, 2006)
2. Dallas Clark, Colts (No. 24, 2003)
3. Heath Miller, Steelers (No. 30, 2005)
4. Kellen Winslow, Browns (No. 6. 2004)
5. Brandon Pettigrew, Lions (No. 20, 2009)
6. Jeremy Shockey, Giants (No. 14, 2002)
7. Dustin Keller, Jets (No. 30, 2008)
8. Marcedes Lewis, Jaguars (No. 28, 2006)
9. Jermaine Gresham, Bengals (No. 21, 2010)
10. Daniel Graham, Patriots (No. 21, 2002)
11. Greg Olsen, Bears (No. 31, 2007)
12. Ben Watson, Patriots (No. 32, 2004)
13. Jerramy Stevens, (No. 28, 2002)The bust rate of first-round tight ends over the last decade is exceptionally low. Guys like Lewis, Gresham, and Graham were good picks; solid starters. Watson is second-to-last on this list, but even he was a reasonably productive player.
Based on some of the recent gems at tight end in the draft (Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Jimmy Graham and Jermichael Finley), perhaps tight end is a position that remains undervalued by NFL evaluators.
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Olsen only one worth a first round pick in that list. bacon
***************************************
I'm calling bullhocksies on that.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82860152/article/best-firstround-tight-ends-of-the-last-decade
1. Vernon Davis, 49ers (No. 6, 2006)
2. Dallas Clark, Colts (No. 24, 2003)
3. Heath Miller, Steelers (No. 30, 2005)
4. Kellen Winslow, Browns (No. 6. 2004)
5. Brandon Pettigrew, Lions (No. 20, 2009)
6. Jeremy Shockey, Giants (No. 14, 2002)
7. Dustin Keller, Jets (No. 30, 2008)
8. Marcedes Lewis, Jaguars (No. 28, 2006)
9. Jermaine Gresham, Bengals (No. 21, 2010)
10. Daniel Graham, Patriots (No. 21, 2002)
11. Greg Olsen, Bears (No. 31, 2007)
12. Ben Watson, Patriots (No. 32, 2004)
13. Jerramy Stevens, (No. 28, 2002)The bust rate of first-round tight ends over the last decade is exceptionally low. Guys like Lewis, Gresham, and Graham were good picks; solid starters. Watson is second-to-last on this list, but even he was a reasonably productive player.
Based on some of the recent gems at tight end in the draft (Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Jimmy Graham and Jermichael Finley), perhaps tight end is a position that remains undervalued by NFL evaluators.
Olsen only one worth a first round pick in that list. bacon
***************************************
I'm calling bullhocksies on that.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82860152/article/best-firstround-tight-ends-of-the-last-decade
1. Vernon Davis, 49ers (No. 6, 2006)
2. Dallas Clark, Colts (No. 24, 2003)
3. Heath Miller, Steelers (No. 30, 2005)
4. Kellen Winslow, Browns (No. 6. 2004)
5. Brandon Pettigrew, Lions (No. 20, 2009)
6. Jeremy Shockey, Giants (No. 14, 2002)
7. Dustin Keller, Jets (No. 30, 2008)
8. Marcedes Lewis, Jaguars (No. 28, 2006)
9. Jermaine Gresham, Bengals (No. 21, 2010)
10. Daniel Graham, Patriots (No. 21, 2002)
11. Greg Olsen, Bears (No. 31, 2007)
12. Ben Watson, Patriots (No. 32, 2004)
13. Jerramy Stevens, (No. 28, 2002)
The bust rate of first-round tight ends over the last decade is exceptionally low. Guys like Lewis, Gresham, and Graham were good picks; solid starters. Watson is second-to-last on this list, but even he was a reasonably productive player.
Based on some of the recent gems at tight end in the draft (Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Jimmy Graham and Jermichael Finley), perhaps tight end is a position that remains undervalued by NFL evaluators.
A decade is 10 years, in this case 16-07. Looking at 1st round picks only and not voting bust or star but looking at what you expect from a first round pick vs later round picks. Try to keep up.
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TE's drafted in the 1st round the last 10 years
2016 - 0
2015 - 0
2014 - Eric Ebron 10th - Lions
2013 - Tyler Eifert 21st - Bengals
2012 - 0
2011 - 0
2010 - Jermaine Gresham 21st - Bengals
2009 - Brandon Pettigrew 20th - Lions
2008 - Dustin Keller 30th - Jets
2007 - Greg Olsen 30th - Bears
Olsen only one worth a first round pick in that list. You can clearly see Ebron only one going 1-19 and you want us to look at #12? While I won't dismiss taking a TE in round 1, top 20 better be the next coming of Gronk and you better have the offense to put him in.
He's not any of those guys so I encourage you to watch the video. I gave you what to look for. Why are you so terrified to watch it? It's because you know he might actually intrigue you the way he's been intriguing scouts. I have zero to do with why he's flying up the charts. You may want to educate yourself as to why and how it's happening.
Some years there's a reason to value a position more than others. Your excuses why you don't want to even watch his highlights are because Jermaine Gresham and Brandon Pettigrew didn't work out? Really? Okay, if we're going to go the similar conference/school route for the same projected NFL position - Ozzie DID work out and OJ Howard is from the same school looking to be a 1st round NFL TE as well. BTW, Eifert had 13 TD receptions in 2015 back when Cincy won the AFC North with a 12-4 record while Greg Olsen had a Pro Bowl season for the SB bound Carolina Panthers despite missing their #1 WR Kelvin Benjamin all year. The year the Ratbirds won their first SB - their leading receiver (who also prevented Dilfer from hanging Dilfer) was Shannon Sharpe. Drew Brees' best receiver when New Orleans won a SB was TE Jimmy Graham.
Watch the video. If you still feel it would be much smarter for us to hand OJ Howard to Baltimore or Pittsburgh instead of drafting him I'll make sure you never stop getting credit for such wisdom. I promise.
He's not any of those guys so I encourage you to watch the video. I gave you what to look for. Why are you so terrified to watch it? It's because you know he might actually intrigue you the way he's been intriguing scouts. I have zero to do with why he's flying up the charts. You may want to educate yourself as to why and how it's happening.
Some years there's a reason to value a position more than others. Your excuses why you don't want to even watch his highlights are because Jermaine Gresham and Brandon Pettigrew didn't work out? Really? Okay, if we're going to go the similar conference/school route for the same projected NFL position - Ozzie DID work out and OJ Howard is from the same school looking to be a 1st round NFL TE as well. BTW, Eifert had 13 TD receptions in 2015 back when Cincy won the AFC North with a 12-4 record while Greg Olsen had a Pro Bowl season for the SB bound Carolina Panthers despite missing their #1 WR Kelvin Benjamin all year. The year the Ratbirds won their first SB - their leading receiver (who also prevented Dilfer from hanging Dilfer) was Shannon Sharpe. Drew Brees' best receiver when New Orleans won a SB was TE Jimmy Graham.
Watch the video. If you still feel it would be much smarter for us to hand OJ Howard to Baltimore or Pittsburgh instead of drafting him I'll make sure you never stop getting credit for such wisdom. I promise.
I watched the video, the Championship game, have read draft evaluations and looked at the stats. If I was drafting for a playoff team with a solid QB and very good offensive skill positions I think it would be a solid pick 15-30. Many draft evaluators are saying the same thing, unpolished and never lived up to the hype. Please don't tell me that the college a player attend almost 40 years apart means anything. He's a raw talent and the Browns need stability.
Plus we have Pro Bowler Gary Barnidge on the roster.
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your judgement of what to expect is pretty subjective. The TE isn't
as dramatic an impact player when you lack a good qb, etc etc etc.
But you can add a TE in the right situation, and it is a dramatic impact.
way too short on comprehensive factors, you are.
for instance:
Look at the list I posted, and look at the number of playoff teams. The TE's are a major
factor in helping them get there. and twice it was the Patriots.
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Olsen only one worth a first round pick in that list. bacon
***************************************
I'm calling bullhocksies on that.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82860152/article/best-firstround-tight-ends-of-the-last-decade
1. Vernon Davis, 49ers (No. 6, 2006)
2. Dallas Clark, Colts (No. 24, 2003)
3. Heath Miller, Steelers (No. 30, 2005)
4. Kellen Winslow, Browns (No. 6. 2004)
5. Brandon Pettigrew, Lions (No. 20, 2009)
6. Jeremy Shockey, Giants (No. 14, 2002)
7. Dustin Keller, Jets (No. 30, 2008)
8. Marcedes Lewis, Jaguars (No. 28, 2006)
9. Jermaine Gresham, Bengals (No. 21, 2010)
10. Daniel Graham, Patriots (No. 21, 2002)
11. Greg Olsen, Bears (No. 31, 2007)
12. Ben Watson, Patriots (No. 32, 2004)
13. Jerramy Stevens, (No. 28, 2002)The bust rate of first-round tight ends over the last decade is exceptionally low. Guys like Lewis, Gresham, and Graham were good picks; solid starters. Watson is second-to-last on this list, but even he was a reasonably productive player.
Based on some of the recent gems at tight end in the draft (Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Jimmy Graham and Jermichael Finley), perhaps tight end is a position that remains undervalued by NFL evaluators.
Olsen only one worth a first round pick in that list. bacon
***************************************
I'm calling bullhocksies on that.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82860152/article/best-firstround-tight-ends-of-the-last-decade
1. Vernon Davis, 49ers (No. 6, 2006)
2. Dallas Clark, Colts (No. 24, 2003)
3. Heath Miller, Steelers (No. 30, 2005)
4. Kellen Winslow, Browns (No. 6. 2004)
5. Brandon Pettigrew, Lions (No. 20, 2009)
6. Jeremy Shockey, Giants (No. 14, 2002)
7. Dustin Keller, Jets (No. 30, 2008)
8. Marcedes Lewis, Jaguars (No. 28, 2006)
9. Jermaine Gresham, Bengals (No. 21, 2010)
10. Daniel Graham, Patriots (No. 21, 2002)
11. Greg Olsen, Bears (No. 31, 2007)
12. Ben Watson, Patriots (No. 32, 2004)
13. Jerramy Stevens, (No. 28, 2002)
The bust rate of first-round tight ends over the last decade is exceptionally low. Guys like Lewis, Gresham, and Graham were good picks; solid starters. Watson is second-to-last on this list, but even he was a reasonably productive player.
Based on some of the recent gems at tight end in the draft (Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Jimmy Graham and Jermichael Finley), perhaps tight end is a position that remains undervalued by NFL evaluators.
Well done Cal! And then there's steals/grand thefts like some of those you alluded to and others after round 1 like Shannon Sharpe, Gronk, Jimmy Graham, Jason Witten, Brent Jones or an undrafted Antonio Gates that many teams would hind sight 20/20 all the way up into round 1.
Judging OJ Howard because of someone else at TE a different year would be like saying Jamarcus Russell is a perfect QB because Peyton Manning was. Huh???? On the other hand, if he looks like he can be an x-factor type of TE like Ozzie was here - when we saw how often the teams Ozzie played on here frequented post seasons - why wouldn't consider our history for the potentially similar skill set for our TE position in round 1? We sucked in 1977 while hoping to find a way to help out a 13th round Qb (Brian Sipe) in 1978. And did Ozzie help Sipe over the next 4-5 years?
Is it that impossible to click on a link and watch a 6 minute video?
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He's not any of those guys so I encourage you to watch the video. I gave you what to look for. Why are you so terrified to watch it? It's because you know he might actually intrigue you the way he's been intriguing scouts. I have zero to do with why he's flying up the charts. You may want to educate yourself as to why and how it's happening.
Some years there's a reason to value a position more than others. Your excuses why you don't want to even watch his highlights are because Jermaine Gresham and Brandon Pettigrew didn't work out? Really? Okay, if we're going to go the similar conference/school route for the same projected NFL position - Ozzie DID work out and OJ Howard is from the same school looking to be a 1st round NFL TE as well. BTW, Eifert had 13 TD receptions in 2015 back when Cincy won the AFC North with a 12-4 record while Greg Olsen had a Pro Bowl season for the SB bound Carolina Panthers despite missing their #1 WR Kelvin Benjamin all year. The year the Ratbirds won their first SB - their leading receiver (who also prevented Dilfer from hanging Dilfer) was Shannon Sharpe. Drew Brees' best receiver when New Orleans won a SB was TE Jimmy Graham.
Watch the video. If you still feel it would be much smarter for us to hand OJ Howard to Baltimore or Pittsburgh instead of drafting him I'll make sure you never stop getting credit for such wisdom. I promise.
I watched the video, the Championship game, have read draft evaluations and looked at the stats. If I was drafting for a playoff team with a solid QB and very good offensive skill positions I think it would be a solid pick 15-30. Many draft evaluators are saying the same thing, unpolished and never lived up to the hype. Please don't tell me that the college a player attend almost 40 years apart means anything. He's a raw talent and the Browns need stability.
Plus we have Pro Bowler Gary Barnidge on the roster.
I watched the video, the Championship game, have read draft evaluations and looked at the stats. If I was drafting for a playoff team with a solid QB and very good offensive skill positions I think it would be a solid pick 15-30. Many draft evaluators are saying the same thing, unpolished and never lived up to the hype. Please don't tell me that the college a player attend almost 40 years apart means anything. He's a raw talent and the Browns need stability.
Plus we have Pro Bowler Gary Barnidge on the roster.
your judgement of what to expect is pretty subjective. The TE isn't
as dramatic an impact player when you lack a good qb, etc etc etc.
But you can add a TE in the right situation, and it is a dramatic impact.
way too short on comprehensive factors, you are.
for instance:
Look at the list I posted, and look at the number of playoff teams. The TE's are a major
factor in helping them get there. and twice it was the Patriots.
Can you read?
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Olsen only one worth a first round pick in that list. bacon
***************************************
I'm calling bullhocksies on that.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82860152/article/best-firstround-tight-ends-of-the-last-decade
1. Vernon Davis, 49ers (No. 6, 2006)
2. Dallas Clark, Colts (No. 24, 2003)
3. Heath Miller, Steelers (No. 30, 2005)
4. Kellen Winslow, Browns (No. 6. 2004)
5. Brandon Pettigrew, Lions (No. 20, 2009)
6. Jeremy Shockey, Giants (No. 14, 2002)
7. Dustin Keller, Jets (No. 30, 2008)
8. Marcedes Lewis, Jaguars (No. 28, 2006)
9. Jermaine Gresham, Bengals (No. 21, 2010)
10. Daniel Graham, Patriots (No. 21, 2002)
11. Greg Olsen, Bears (No. 31, 2007)
12. Ben Watson, Patriots (No. 32, 2004)
13. Jerramy Stevens, (No. 28, 2002)
The bust rate of first-round tight ends over the last decade is exceptionally low. Guys like Lewis, Gresham, and Graham were good picks; solid starters. Watson is second-to-last on this list, but even he was a reasonably productive player.
Based on some of the recent gems at tight end in the draft (Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Jimmy Graham and Jermichael Finley), perhaps tight end is a position that remains undervalued by NFL evaluators.
Well done Cal! And then there's steals/grand thefts like some of those you alluded to and others after round 1 like Shannon Sharpe, Gronk, Jimmy Graham, Jason Witten, Brent Jones or an undrafted Antonio Gates that many teams would hind sight 20/20 all the way up into round 1.
Judging OJ Howard because of someone else at TE a different year would be like saying Jamarcus Russell is a perfect QB because Peyton Manning was. Huh???? On the other hand, if he looks like he can be an x-factor type of TE like Ozzie was here - when we saw how often the teams Ozzie played on here frequented post seasons - why wouldn't consider our history for the potentially similar skill set for our TE position in round 1? We sucked in 1977 while hoping to find a way to help out a 13th round Qb (Brian Sipe) in 1978. And did Ozzie help Sipe over the next 4-5 years?
Is it that impossible to click on a link and watch a 6 minute video?
Well done Cal! And then there's steals/grand thefts like some of those you alluded to and others after round 1 like Shannon Sharpe, Gronk, Jimmy Graham, Jason Witten, Brent Jones or an undrafted Antonio Gates that many teams would hind sight 20/20 all the way up into round 1.
Judging OJ Howard because of someone else at TE a different year would be like saying Jamarcus Russell is a perfect QB because Peyton Manning was. Huh????
Is it that impossible to click on a link and watch a 6 minute video?
I watched the video. And have not said anything about OTHER FUCKING TEAMS drafting him. You keep talking about him at #12 for the Browns and that is too high for a raw talent TE in an offensive system that is unproven and QB play that has been below average. I get the fact that the tea leaves tell you that a 39 year old pick makes this reasonable but god I hope the Browns brass don't.
In 2015 the Browns had a Pro Bowl TE and were 3-13. The team is in rebuild mode and in desperate need of talent and depth on defense.
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He's not any of those guys so I encourage you to watch the video. I gave you what to look for. Why are you so terrified to watch it? It's because you know he might actually intrigue you the way he's been intriguing scouts. I have zero to do with why he's flying up the charts. You may want to educate yourself as to why and how it's happening.
Some years there's a reason to value a position more than others. Your excuses why you don't want to even watch his highlights are because Jermaine Gresham and Brandon Pettigrew didn't work out? Really? Okay, if we're going to go the similar conference/school route for the same projected NFL position - Ozzie DID work out and OJ Howard is from the same school looking to be a 1st round NFL TE as well. BTW, Eifert had 13 TD receptions in 2015 back when Cincy won the AFC North with a 12-4 record while Greg Olsen had a Pro Bowl season for the SB bound Carolina Panthers despite missing their #1 WR Kelvin Benjamin all year. The year the Ratbirds won their first SB - their leading receiver (who also prevented Dilfer from hanging Dilfer) was Shannon Sharpe. Drew Brees' best receiver when New Orleans won a SB was TE Jimmy Graham.
Watch the video. If you still feel it would be much smarter for us to hand OJ Howard to Baltimore or Pittsburgh instead of drafting him I'll make sure you never stop getting credit for such wisdom. I promise.
I watched the video, the Championship game, have read draft evaluations and looked at the stats. If I was drafting for a playoff team with a solid QB and very good offensive skill positions I think it would be a solid pick 15-30. Many draft evaluators are saying the same thing, unpolished and never lived up to the hype. Please don't tell me that the college a player attend almost 40 years apart means anything. He's a raw talent and the Browns need stability.
Plus we have Pro Bowler Gary Barnidge on the roster.
I watched the video, the Championship game, have read draft evaluations and looked at the stats. If I was drafting for a playoff team with a solid QB and very good offensive skill positions I think it would be a solid pick 15-30. Many draft evaluators are saying the same thing, unpolished and never lived up to the hype. Please don't tell me that the college a player attend almost 40 years apart means anything. He's a raw talent and the Browns need stability.
Plus we have Pro Bowler Gary Barnidge on the roster.
Says the guy who informed me because Gresham and Pettigrew sucked it can only mean Howard has to as well. You do realize Barnidge wasn't a Pro Bowl TE in 2016. He turns 32 in September 2017 while he looked/played like he was 42 last Fall. His TDs decreased from 9 in 2015 to just 2 in 2016 while his receptions dropped from 55 to 38 reducing his yardage from over 1000 to about 600 yards. Let's not pretend he's going in the right direction with plenty of upside.
So, you watched the whole video and remained completely unimpressed? Okay kid. And I just won 3 straight lotteries.
You also realize you don't draft best football in the rear view mirror in lieu of best football ahead right? Guys like Greg Olsen, Jason Witten and Jimmy Graham were much better pro TEs than they were in college. Meanwhile, Antonio Gates didn't even play college football when the worst team in the NFL gave him a contract in SD. And Shannon Sharpe came out of a small school like Savannah State.
When Howard didn't have to count on a true freshman at QB - he epitomized the big time player steps up in a big time game as I linked up. Same held true in the Senior Bowl. All that said, he didn't exactly suck in the last 2 post season games he played in either.
So what pick at #12 are you certain is going to save our defense and bring it to the next level especially knowing Foster, Hooker, Adams and many others will already be gone?
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I watched the video, the Championship game, have read draft evaluations and looked at the stats. If I was drafting for a playoff team with a solid QB and very good offensive skill positions I think it would be a solid pick 15-30. Many draft evaluators are saying the same thing, unpolished and never lived up to the hype. Please don't tell me that the college a player attend almost 40 years apart means anything. He's a raw talent and the Browns need stability.
Plus we have Pro Bowler Gary Barnidge on the roster.
your judgement of what to expect is pretty subjective. The TE isn't
as dramatic an impact player when you lack a good qb, etc etc etc.
But you can add a TE in the right situation, and it is a dramatic impact.
way too short on comprehensive factors, you are.
for instance:
Look at the list I posted, and look at the number of playoff teams. The TE's are a major
factor in helping them get there. and twice it was the Patriots.
Can you read?
Can you read?
No wonder why Zombo and a couple others thought you were an idiot a week or 2 ago.
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Well done Cal! And then there's steals/grand thefts like some of those you alluded to and others after round 1 like Shannon Sharpe, Gronk, Jimmy Graham, Jason Witten, Brent Jones or an undrafted Antonio Gates that many teams would hind sight 20/20 all the way up into round 1.
Judging OJ Howard because of someone else at TE a different year would be like saying Jamarcus Russell is a perfect QB because Peyton Manning was. Huh????
Is it that impossible to click on a link and watch a 6 minute video?
I watched the video. And have not said anything about OTHER FUCKING TEAMS drafting him. You keep talking about him at #12 for the Browns and that is too high for a raw talent TE in an offensive system that is unproven and QB play that has been below average. I get the fact that the tea leaves tell you that a 39 year old pick makes this reasonable but god I hope the Browns brass don't.
In 2015 the Browns had a Pro Bowl TE and were 3-13. The team is in rebuild mode and in desperate need of talent and depth on defense.
I watched the video. And have not said anything about OTHER FUCKING TEAMS drafting him. You keep talking about him at #12 for the Browns and that is too high for a raw talent TE
I'm not the only one eye balling him for #12. Daniel Jeremiah is a paid draft analyst doing so off his research while I've seen 6 other fans in saying in recent discussions they want him at #12. You asked Cal if he reads - do you?
You showed up with a smart ass comment mocking Howard twice in the same thread. I let the first one slide but joined the precedent you set the next time. I was expecting something far more impressive from you than Marty McFly losing track of when Barnidge last made the Pro Bowl; and way more coherent than if Gresham and Pettigrew sucked - a TE should never be considered up at #12 overall.
Yes, you were right we only won 3 games when Barnidge made the Pro Bowl. Unfortunately, that was 3 times as many games as we won when he only scored 2 TDs in 2016. When Ozzie gave us a Hall of Fame career at TE - we frequented playoffs throughout the 80s. Coincidence? That's the intrigue for finding an X-factor at the position. It's what he opens up for the WR Corps outside him and the QB behind him more than anything else. It's about understanding that kind of dynamic which is possible if your agenda isn't to be a smart ass first and foremost. I wrote all this in the OP to set up the context to follow which you leapfrogged.
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I watched the video, the Championship game, have read draft evaluations and looked at the stats. If I was drafting for a playoff team with a solid QB and very good offensive skill positions I think it would be a solid pick 15-30. Many draft evaluators are saying the same thing, unpolished and never lived up to the hype. Please don't tell me that the college a player attend almost 40 years apart means anything. He's a raw talent and the Browns need stability.
Plus we have Pro Bowler Gary Barnidge on the roster.
your judgement of what to expect is pretty subjective. The TE isn't
as dramatic an impact player when you lack a good qb, etc etc etc.
But you can add a TE in the right situation, and it is a dramatic impact.
way too short on comprehensive factors, you are.
for instance:
Look at the list I posted, and look at the number of playoff teams. The TE's are a major
factor in helping them get there. and twice it was the Patriots.
Can you read?
Can you read?
Olsen only one worth a first round pick in that list. bacon
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I read just fine. Can you THINK ? Apparently not, because I clearly referred to your statement
above, discounting all those picks, some which you conveniently left blank, as first round choices.
When you have the chance to draft a Gronk, you draft him. The Browns will add the other players
in FA and the rest of the draft. The more legit question, is Bucky Hodges also a terrific
adddition to add? Will HE even make it to 33?
You discounted all those other TE's as not being first round picks, that was the point.
Furthermore, the Patriots drafted Gronk in the second round - in 2010, only because
he couldn't play his last year in college for injury. Given the possibility of trading for say,
Garop.... which was the point - and the very deep cb draft... Howard most certainly
would be a dynamic pick. He's a sure thing immediate impact player - assuming other
weaknesses on offense are fixed, too. When you can draft greatness, probably? in the first
round, you do it. And greatness isn't defined as a player who just has great measurables
at the combine, but rather including character, work ethic, love for the game.
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