Front 7
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Per his 1st press conference with us, we already know Gregg Williams won't be exclusive to 1 front. I just have a lot of random thoughts about what front 7 personnel we have on our roster at this time and how it aligns with a 43 base Williams has used a lot in the past.
1) Myles Garrett should be joining us as the pick of the litter and undisputed best edge rusher of the draft.
2) Desmond Bryant who can play DE or kick inside and play DT returns to us healthy with fresh legs. This kind of flexibility is invaluable.
3) Nate Orchard closed strong in 2015 while it didn't look like he was going to get much of a chance in 2016 prior to IR. I suppose drafting Garrett won't make things any easier for Orchard to find playing time. However, if Garrett is one of those guys prone to ankle injuries - Orchard may provide invaluable depth.
4) Jamie Collins has a new contract after his dynamic improved our defense.
Here's what I see on the roster competing for starting jobs and situational rotation using positions projected for a 43:
DE - Myles Garrett
DE - Carl Nassib
DE - Emmanuel Ogbah
DE - Dylan Wynn
DE - Tyrone Holmes
DE - Cam Johnson
DE - Xavier Cooper
DE - Nate Orchard
DE/DT - Desmond Bryant
DT - Danny Shelton
DT - Jamie Meder
DT - Stephen Paea
DT - Gabe Wright
DT - Nile Lawrence-Stample
DT - T. Coley
OLB - Jamie Collins
OLB/ILB - Christian KirkseyOLB - Joe Schobert
ILB - Demario Davis
ILB - Dominique Alexander
ILB - Tank Carder
ILB - James Burgess
Looking forward to seeing what we add in the draft and free agency. Let's hope Gregg Williams instills the giddy-up and get after it that treats us to a lot of sic em, sock em and sack em.
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Johnson and holmes are gone, they are 3-4 tweeners that didnt hold up well at the point. Bye. Coopers probably gone too. He's not a 4-3 DE and theres too much competition at DT.
My prediction is the interior rotation will be shelton, meder, paea,bryant. DE is crowded. You havevthe prospect of garett coming in so whats already crowded gets worse. If they draft garett im not in favor of them starting him from day one. He needs to get stronger on the field. I dont want some clowney microfracture bullshit to happen. People will say oakland put mack in right away but forget he was a 4-3 olb'er his first year. I dont want garett lifting 320 lb tackles around the edge every down, yet.
So that leaves og and nas as the regular starters. Alot will hinge on their development. Nas had better be in the weight room right fucking now as we speak. I really dont know about orchard, he could be cut. But maybe a return to DE is what he needs. He's just never really impressed me. Bith og and nas showed flashes last year that looked better than orchard. Wynn will be interesting to see. He's kinda that inbetween DT/DE like ogbah. He only lasted through the preseason the other year before he got hurt, but pettine lined him up wide in 4 man fronts and he looked "way" better than kruger and soloman. Just a bigger stronger more prototype 4-3 DE than those other two. Will be interesting to see where he ends up on the roster if we draft garett or allen.
As for lb'ers, i wouldnt mind seeing us bring in a veteran mlb'er. I think davis and kirksey need someone like that. Collins, if we keep him.....could be a blitzing terror at olb'er. I dont see schobert cracking the starting line up and will probably have to fight for his life to make the roster
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We are keeping Collins-signed a big money multi-year deal.
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Here's a first look at what I expect to see starting in our front 7 (subject to change)...
LDE - E.Ogbah LDT - D.Bryant RDT - D.Shelton RDE - M.Garrett
Sub - C.Nassib Sub - J.Meder Sub - S. Paea Sub - N.Orchard
OLB - J.Collins MLB - D.Davis OLB - C.Kirksey
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Pluto on Garrett for the Browns
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/02/cleveland_browns_have_terry_ta_102.html
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We get Barnett at #12....he outshines Garrett.
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We get Barnett at #12....he outshines Garrett.
We get Barnett at #12....he outshines Garrett.
Let's see what they both accomplish these next 3 years.
Plus if he is really all that good as you say, he will not be there at #12. Garrett in hand is worth 2 Barnetts in the bush.
EDIT: And if he is really better as you say, then he should be our # 1 choice, not #12.
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We get Barnett at #12....he outshines Garrett.
Let's see what they both accomplish these next 3 years.
Plus if he is really all that good as you say, he will not be there at #12. Garrett in hand is worth 2 Barnetts in the bush.
EDIT: And if he is really better as you say, then he should be our # 1 choice, not #12.
Let's see what they both accomplish these next 3 years.
Plus if he is really all that good as you say, he will not be there at #12. Garrett in hand is worth 2 Barnetts in the bush.
EDIT: And if he is really better as you say, then he should be our # 1 choice, not #12.
Its just a wild ass prediction. No one really knows. Certainly not you...or I. Garrett could be Courtney Brown part deux...or not.
And our #1 choice should be neither. It should be the QB.
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Id trade the first pick to the chargers for boda tbh. I think garett would be a better hybrid for their 3-4 and bosa would be a better DE in our 4-3. Bosa moves back to the 4-3 DE and puts 10-15 lbs back on......records fall
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Let's see what they both accomplish these next 3 years.
Plus if he is really all that good as you say, he will not be there at #12. Garrett in hand is worth 2 Barnetts in the bush.
EDIT: And if he is really better as you say, then he should be our # 1 choice, not #12.
Its just a wild ass prediction. No one really knows. Certainly not you...or I. Garrett could be Courtney Brown part deux...or not.
And our #1 choice should be neither. It should be the QB.
Its just a wild ass prediction. No one really knows. Certainly not you...or I. Garrett could be Courtney Brown part deux...or not.
And our #1 choice should be neither. It should be the QB.
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Johnson and holmes are gone, they are 3-4 tweeners that didnt hold up well at the point. Bye. Coopers probably gone too. He's not a 4-3 DE and theres too much competition at DT.
My prediction is the interior rotation will be shelton, meder, paea,bryant. DE is crowded. You havevthe prospect of garett coming in so whats already crowded gets worse. If they draft garett im not in favor of them starting him from day one. He needs to get stronger on the field. I dont want some clowney microfracture bullshit to happen. People will say oakland put mack in right away but forget he was a 4-3 olb'er his first year. I dont want garett lifting 320 lb tackles around the edge every down, yet.
So that leaves og and nas as the regular starters. Alot will hinge on their development. Nas had better be in the weight room right fucking now as we speak. I really dont know about orchard, he could be cut. But maybe a return to DE is what he needs. He's just never really impressed me. Bith og and nas showed flashes last year that looked better than orchard. Wynn will be interesting to see. He's kinda that inbetween DT/DE like ogbah. He only lasted through the preseason the other year before he got hurt, but pettine lined him up wide in 4 man fronts and he looked "way" better than kruger and soloman. Just a bigger stronger more prototype 4-3 DE than those other two. Will be interesting to see where he ends up on the roster if we draft garett or allen.
As for lb'ers, i wouldnt mind seeing us bring in a veteran mlb'er. I think davis and kirksey need someone like that. Collins, if we keep him.....could be a blitzing terror at olb'er. I dont see schobert cracking the starting line up and will probably have to fight for his life to make the roster
Johnson and holmes are gone, they are 3-4 tweeners that didnt hold up well at the point. Bye. Coopers probably gone too. He's not a 4-3 DE and theres too much competition at DT. - Clevs
Appreciate your reply here. While I totally agree with your points - I used the current roster that still has their names on it. I'm thinking a lot of those names are very temporary as well. Having said that, I wonder what guys I under-estimated when I gave my first projected starting front 7. That was hard to do when Gregg Williams clarified he'll be using a lot of different numbers up front. One of our guys that remains very important due to his flexibility to play any technique assigned is Des Bryant. He's played anywhere from DE to NT and held up well vs the point of attack. - Flugel
You havevthe prospect of garett coming in so whats already crowded gets worse. If they draft garett im not in favor of them starting him from day one. He needs to get stronger on the field. I dont want some clowney microfracture bullshit to happen. People will say oakland put mack in right away but forget he was a 4-3 olb'er his first year. I dont want garett lifting 320 lb tackles around the edge every down, yet. - Clevs
I'm not trying to pick on you here because I like reading your energetic posts about the defense. IMO, you don't get stronger on the field by staying off the field. Muscle memory comes from use and repetition. This eventually helped someone coin the phrase: use it or lose it. In fact, when Aaron Rodgers was asked how he always seemed to thread the needle in clutch situations he credited muscle memory from all of the practice he's had over the years. Experience is an invaluable tool regardless of how impatient a fan base may get during growing pains. I've only seen 1 inexperienced DE get a freaky micro-fracture injury. If we're going to draft someone at #1 only to bench him because he might get a freak injury - our defense might want to consider wearing orange or brown mini-skirts instead of football pants. - Flugel
So that leaves og and nas as the regular starters. Alot will hinge on their development. Nas had better be in the weight room right fucking now as we speak. I really dont know about orchard, he could be cut. But maybe a return to DE is what he needs. He's just never really impressed me. Bith og and nas showed flashes last year that looked better than orchard. Wynn will be interesting to see. He's kinda that inbetween DT/DE like ogbah. He only lasted through the preseason the other year before he got hurt, but pettine lined him up wide in 4 man fronts and he looked "way" better than kruger and soloman. Just a bigger stronger more prototype 4-3 DE than those other two. Will be interesting to see where he ends up on the roster if we draft garett or allen. - Clevs
Interesting Clevsies! I'm not worried about Nassib's off season work ethic or he wouldn't have progressed from "Why bother?" to leading the country in sacks in 2015 for Div IA programs. That's a big part of why this front office liked him. When it comes to the inner chest - Nassib isn't a tin man. The college body of work reflected he's not an immediate emergence but well worth investing the time and patience into. IMO, he was off to a good start prior to breaking his hand/wrist which can impact one's ability to 2-hand shiver/lock out a 320 lb tackle.
Once Orchard got reps late in 2015, I thought he closed the year very strong and rarely ever got himself out of position. If we take away the element of think/worry about retreating into a coverage zone at the snap - my guess is we eliminate any hurdles to playing faster. Seems like a type Gregg Williams will like. I won't count him out here especially if we shock the world with Trubisky at #1.
I like what you see in Allen. I was actually a bigger fan of Allen than Garrett throughout this pre-draft until I did something I rarely do - joined the crowd/draft analysts telling me our only choice is Garrett. Since then, I've seen enough film warranting the intrigue as well as the fitness to tap even more from him. Having said that, I remember what 1 bad high ankle sprain did to the promising career of Leigh Bodden right after we gave him the new contract he earned. I hope this won't be the case with Garrett; but a bad ankle sprain never fully heals like a fracture does. Allen may not be as glamor-boy friendly in the unselfish team-first scheme he plays in BUT he can play inside or outside which would project extremely well in Williams' scheme. The more film I watched of Allen, the more Reuben Foster stole the show (which was in large due to the unselfishness of the team first dline up front). When you really think about it, JJ Watt wasn't a big stat/sack monster when he was a team first guy within the 34 scheme at Wisconsin. Who knows what Allen would be capable of in Williams' scheme. - Flugel
As for lb'ers, i wouldnt mind seeing us bring in a veteran mlb'er. I think davis and kirksey need someone like that. Collins, if we keep him.....could be a blitzing terror at olb'er. I dont see schobert cracking the starting line up and will probably have to fight for his life to make the roster - Clevs
Collins got the dream contract extension he wanted here so him and Davis are the veteran LBers you speak of to team up with Kirksey (now a 3 year vet). I'm interested in seeing if Dominique Alexander can challenge Demario Davis for a starting job while Tank Carder keeps his tenure for the STs role. - Flugel
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Johnson and holmes are gone, they are 3-4 tweeners that didnt hold up well at the point. Bye. Coopers probably gone too. He's not a 4-3 DE and theres too much competition at DT. - Clevs
Appreciate your reply here. While I totally agree with your points - I used the current roster that still has their names on it. I'm thinking a lot of those names are very temporary as well. Having said that, I wonder what guys I under-estimated when I gave my first projected starting front 7. That was hard to do when Gregg Williams clarified he'll be using a lot of different numbers up front. One of our guys that remains very important due to his flexibility to play any technique assigned is Des Bryant. He's played anywhere from DE to NT and held up well vs the point of attack. - Flugel
You havevthe prospect of garett coming in so whats already crowded gets worse. If they draft garett im not in favor of them starting him from day one. He needs to get stronger on the field. I dont want some clowney microfracture bullshit to happen. People will say oakland put mack in right away but forget he was a 4-3 olb'er his first year. I dont want garett lifting 320 lb tackles around the edge every down, yet. - Clevs
I'm not trying to pick on you here because I like reading your energetic posts about the defense. IMO, you don't get stronger on the field by staying off the field. Muscle memory comes from use and repetition. This eventually helped someone coin the phrase: use it or lose it. In fact, when Aaron Rodgers was asked how he always seemed to thread the needle in clutch situations he credited muscle memory from all of the practice he's had over the years. Experience is an invaluable tool regardless of how impatient a fan base may get during growing pains. I've only seen 1 inexperienced DE get a freaky micro-fracture injury. If we're going to draft someone at #1 only to bench him because he might get a freak injury - our defense might want to consider wearing orange or brown mini-skirts instead of football pants. - Flugel
So that leaves og and nas as the regular starters. Alot will hinge on their development. Nas had better be in the weight room right fucking now as we speak. I really dont know about orchard, he could be cut. But maybe a return to DE is what he needs. He's just never really impressed me. Bith og and nas showed flashes last year that looked better than orchard. Wynn will be interesting to see. He's kinda that inbetween DT/DE like ogbah. He only lasted through the preseason the other year before he got hurt, but pettine lined him up wide in 4 man fronts and he looked "way" better than kruger and soloman. Just a bigger stronger more prototype 4-3 DE than those other two. Will be interesting to see where he ends up on the roster if we draft garett or allen. - Clevs
Interesting Clevsies! I'm not worried about Nassib's off season work ethic or he wouldn't have progressed from "Why bother?" to leading the country in sacks in 2015 for Div IA programs. That's a big part of why this front office liked him. When it comes to the inner chest - Nassib isn't a tin man. The college body of work reflected he's not an immediate emergence but well worth investing the time and patience into. IMO, he was off to a good start prior to breaking his hand/wrist which can impact one's ability to 2-hand shiver/lock out a 320 lb tackle.
Once Orchard got reps late in 2015, I thought he closed the year very strong and rarely ever got himself out of position. If we take away the element of think/worry about retreating into a coverage zone at the snap - my guess is we eliminate any hurdles to playing faster. Seems like a type Gregg Williams will like. I won't count him out here especially if we shock the world with Trubisky at #1.
I like what you see in Allen. I was actually a bigger fan of Allen than Garrett throughout this pre-draft until I did something I rarely do - joined the crowd/draft analysts telling me our only choice is Garrett. Since then, I've seen enough film warranting the intrigue as well as the fitness to tap even more from him. Having said that, I remember what 1 bad high ankle sprain did to the promising career of Leigh Bodden right after we gave him the new contract he earned. I hope this won't be the case with Garrett; but a bad ankle sprain never fully heals like a fracture does. Allen may not be as glamor-boy friendly in the unselfish team-first scheme he plays in BUT he can play inside or outside which would project extremely well in Williams' scheme. The more film I watched of Allen, the more Reuben Foster stole the show (which was in large due to the unselfishness of the team first dline up front). When you really think about it, JJ Watt wasn't a big stat/sack monster when he was a team first guy within the 34 scheme at Wisconsin. Who knows what Allen would be capable of in Williams' scheme. - Flugel
As for lb'ers, i wouldnt mind seeing us bring in a veteran mlb'er. I think davis and kirksey need someone like that. Collins, if we keep him.....could be a blitzing terror at olb'er. I dont see schobert cracking the starting line up and will probably have to fight for his life to make the roster - Clevs
Collins got the dream contract extension he wanted here so him and Davis are the veteran LBers you speak of to team up with Kirksey (now a 3 year vet). I'm interested in seeing if Dominique Alexander can challenge Demario Davis for a starting job while Tank Carder keeps his tenure for the STs role. - Flugel
Johnson and holmes are gone, they are 3-4 tweeners that didnt hold up well at the point. Bye. Coopers probably gone too. He's not a 4-3 DE and theres too much competition at DT. - Clevs
Appreciate your reply here. While I totally agree with your points - I used the current roster that still has their names on it. I'm thinking a lot of those names are very temporary as well. Having said that, I wonder what guys I under-estimated when I gave my first projected starting front 7. That was hard to do when Gregg Williams clarified he'll be using a lot of different numbers up front. One of our guys that remains very important due to his flexibility to play any technique assigned is Des Bryant. He's played anywhere from DE to NT and held up well vs the point of attack. - Flugel
You havevthe prospect of garett coming in so whats already crowded gets worse. If they draft garett im not in favor of them starting him from day one. He needs to get stronger on the field. I dont want some clowney microfracture bullshit to happen. People will say oakland put mack in right away but forget he was a 4-3 olb'er his first year. I dont want garett lifting 320 lb tackles around the edge every down, yet. - Clevs
I'm not trying to pick on you here because I like reading your energetic posts about the defense. IMO, you don't get stronger on the field by staying off the field. Muscle memory comes from use and repetition. This eventually helped someone coin the phrase: use it or lose it. In fact, when Aaron Rodgers was asked how he always seemed to thread the needle in clutch situations he credited muscle memory from all of the practice he's had over the years. Experience is an invaluable tool regardless of how impatient a fan base may get during growing pains. I've only seen 1 inexperienced DE get a freaky micro-fracture injury. If we're going to draft someone at #1 only to bench him because he might get a freak injury - our defense might want to consider wearing orange or brown mini-skirts instead of football pants. - Flugel
So that leaves og and nas as the regular starters. Alot will hinge on their development. Nas had better be in the weight room right fucking now as we speak. I really dont know about orchard, he could be cut. But maybe a return to DE is what he needs. He's just never really impressed me. Bith og and nas showed flashes last year that looked better than orchard. Wynn will be interesting to see. He's kinda that inbetween DT/DE like ogbah. He only lasted through the preseason the other year before he got hurt, but pettine lined him up wide in 4 man fronts and he looked "way" better than kruger and soloman. Just a bigger stronger more prototype 4-3 DE than those other two. Will be interesting to see where he ends up on the roster if we draft garett or allen. - Clevs
Interesting Clevsies! I'm not worried about Nassib's off season work ethic or he wouldn't have progressed from "Why bother?" to leading the country in sacks in 2015 for Div IA programs. That's a big part of why this front office liked him. When it comes to the inner chest - Nassib isn't a tin man. The college body of work reflected he's not an immediate emergence but well worth investing the time and patience into. IMO, he was off to a good start prior to breaking his hand/wrist which can impact one's ability to 2-hand shiver/lock out a 320 lb tackle.
Once Orchard got reps late in 2015, I thought he closed the year very strong and rarely ever got himself out of position. If we take away the element of think/worry about retreating into a coverage zone at the snap - my guess is we eliminate any hurdles to playing faster. Seems like a type Gregg Williams will like. I won't count him out here especially if we shock the world with Trubisky at #1.
I like what you see in Allen. I was actually a bigger fan of Allen than Garrett throughout this pre-draft until I did something I rarely do - joined the crowd/draft analysts telling me our only choice is Garrett. Since then, I've seen enough film warranting the intrigue as well as the fitness to tap even more from him. Having said that, I remember what 1 bad high ankle sprain did to the promising career of Leigh Bodden right after we gave him the new contract he earned. I hope this won't be the case with Garrett; but a bad ankle sprain never fully heals like a fracture does. Allen may not be as glamor-boy friendly in the unselfish team-first scheme he plays in BUT he can play inside or outside which would project extremely well in Williams' scheme. The more film I watched of Allen, the more Reuben Foster stole the show (which was in large due to the unselfishness of the team first dline up front). When you really think about it, JJ Watt wasn't a big stat/sack monster when he was a team first guy within the 34 scheme at Wisconsin. Who knows what Allen would be capable of in Williams' scheme. - Flugel
As for lb'ers, i wouldnt mind seeing us bring in a veteran mlb'er. I think davis and kirksey need someone like that. Collins, if we keep him.....could be a blitzing terror at olb'er. I dont see schobert cracking the starting line up and will probably have to fight for his life to make the roster - Clevs
Collins got the dream contract extension he wanted here so him and Davis are the veteran LBers you speak of to team up with Kirksey (now a 3 year vet). I'm interested in seeing if Dominique Alexander can challenge Demario Davis for a starting job while Tank Carder keeps his tenure for the STs role. - Flugel
Yeah, I am intrigued by Alexander as well. Things will get very interesting this spring & summer.
Mike
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Flugel gotta respectfully disagree about not limiting garetts reps. The chargers limited bosa for 4-5 games and look how that worked out. Bosa was more nfl ready strength wise than garett. Allen to me is ready now. If we draft garett its because his ceiling is potentially in canton among the best ever. You dont drop him in full time on say 1. Let him sub in for of and nas for awhile.
Without knowing for sure, its possible nas injury last year could have been stress related. Him and og were starting from day one but what choice did we have? If we draft garett we can protect him. Garett can get stronger on an nfl practice field against nfl ol. Theres zero need to risk a season ending injury cause he got tired at the end of a game, which is when the injuries happen
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Johnson and holmes are gone, they are 3-4 tweeners that didnt hold up well at the point. Bye. Coopers probably gone too. He's not a 4-3 DE and theres too much competition at DT. - Clevs
Appreciate your reply here. While I totally agree with your points - I used the current roster that still has their names on it. I'm thinking a lot of those names are very temporary as well. Having said that, I wonder what guys I under-estimated when I gave my first projected starting front 7. That was hard to do when Gregg Williams clarified he'll be using a lot of different numbers up front. One of our guys that remains very important due to his flexibility to play any technique assigned is Des Bryant. He's played anywhere from DE to NT and held up well vs the point of attack. - Flugel
You havevthe prospect of garett coming in so whats already crowded gets worse. If they draft garett im not in favor of them starting him from day one. He needs to get stronger on the field. I dont want some clowney microfracture bullshit to happen. People will say oakland put mack in right away but forget he was a 4-3 olb'er his first year. I dont want garett lifting 320 lb tackles around the edge every down, yet. - Clevs
I'm not trying to pick on you here because I like reading your energetic posts about the defense. IMO, you don't get stronger on the field by staying off the field. Muscle memory comes from use and repetition. This eventually helped someone coin the phrase: use it or lose it. In fact, when Aaron Rodgers was asked how he always seemed to thread the needle in clutch situations he credited muscle memory from all of the practice he's had over the years. Experience is an invaluable tool regardless of how impatient a fan base may get during growing pains. I've only seen 1 inexperienced DE get a freaky micro-fracture injury. If we're going to draft someone at #1 only to bench him because he might get a freak injury - our defense might want to consider wearing orange or brown mini-skirts instead of football pants. - Flugel
So that leaves og and nas as the regular starters. Alot will hinge on their development. Nas had better be in the weight room right fucking now as we speak. I really dont know about orchard, he could be cut. But maybe a return to DE is what he needs. He's just never really impressed me. Bith og and nas showed flashes last year that looked better than orchard. Wynn will be interesting to see. He's kinda that inbetween DT/DE like ogbah. He only lasted through the preseason the other year before he got hurt, but pettine lined him up wide in 4 man fronts and he looked "way" better than kruger and soloman. Just a bigger stronger more prototype 4-3 DE than those other two. Will be interesting to see where he ends up on the roster if we draft garett or allen. - Clevs
Interesting Clevsies! I'm not worried about Nassib's off season work ethic or he wouldn't have progressed from "Why bother?" to leading the country in sacks in 2015 for Div IA programs. That's a big part of why this front office liked him. When it comes to the inner chest - Nassib isn't a tin man. The college body of work reflected he's not an immediate emergence but well worth investing the time and patience into. IMO, he was off to a good start prior to breaking his hand/wrist which can impact one's ability to 2-hand shiver/lock out a 320 lb tackle.
Once Orchard got reps late in 2015, I thought he closed the year very strong and rarely ever got himself out of position. If we take away the element of think/worry about retreating into a coverage zone at the snap - my guess is we eliminate any hurdles to playing faster. Seems like a type Gregg Williams will like. I won't count him out here especially if we shock the world with Trubisky at #1.
I like what you see in Allen. I was actually a bigger fan of Allen than Garrett throughout this pre-draft until I did something I rarely do - joined the crowd/draft analysts telling me our only choice is Garrett. Since then, I've seen enough film warranting the intrigue as well as the fitness to tap even more from him. Having said that, I remember what 1 bad high ankle sprain did to the promising career of Leigh Bodden right after we gave him the new contract he earned. I hope this won't be the case with Garrett; but a bad ankle sprain never fully heals like a fracture does. Allen may not be as glamor-boy friendly in the unselfish team-first scheme he plays in BUT he can play inside or outside which would project extremely well in Williams' scheme. The more film I watched of Allen, the more Reuben Foster stole the show (which was in large due to the unselfishness of the team first dline up front). When you really think about it, JJ Watt wasn't a big stat/sack monster when he was a team first guy within the 34 scheme at Wisconsin. Who knows what Allen would be capable of in Williams' scheme. - Flugel
As for lb'ers, i wouldnt mind seeing us bring in a veteran mlb'er. I think davis and kirksey need someone like that. Collins, if we keep him.....could be a blitzing terror at olb'er. I dont see schobert cracking the starting line up and will probably have to fight for his life to make the roster - Clevs
Collins got the dream contract extension he wanted here so him and Davis are the veteran LBers you speak of to team up with Kirksey (now a 3 year vet). I'm interested in seeing if Dominique Alexander can challenge Demario Davis for a starting job while Tank Carder keeps his tenure for the STs role. - Flugel
I'm not trying to pick on you here because I like reading your energetic posts about the defense.- Flugel
Abs no worries pick away, these discussions are what make the board worthwhile. Certainly not the hystrionic alt laden poly board
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Nope, Garrett is a freak of nature akin to Clowney.. Note that even with the t10 OL of the Pats, Clowney was completely unblockable in the playoff game. Can get the QB later - Garrett is literally priceless.
Also, Collins is the ILB not OLB. Sure, he's fast -- however the issue is that his skills are barely average at OLB. He's worth his contract at ILB.
"Not a single sack in Collins’ career has come from anywhere besides up the middle, and unsurprisingly he’s not a natural pass rusher"
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
Flugel gotta respectfully disagree about not limiting garetts reps. The chargers limited bosa for 4-5 games and look how that worked out. Bosa was more nfl ready strength wise than garett. Allen to me is ready now. If we draft garett its because his ceiling is potentially in canton among the best ever. You dont drop him in full time on say 1. Let him sub in for of and nas for awhile.
Without knowing for sure, its possible nas injury last year could have been stress related. Him and og were starting from day one but what choice did we have? If we draft garett we can protect him. Garett can get stronger on an nfl practice field against nfl ol. Theres zero need to risk a season ending injury cause he got tired at the end of a game, which is when the injuries happen
Flugel gotta respectfully disagree about not limiting garetts reps. The chargers limited bosa for 4-5 games and look how that worked out. Bosa was more nfl ready strength wise than garett. Allen to me is ready now. If we draft garett its because his ceiling is potentially in canton among the best ever. You dont drop him in full time on say 1. Let him sub in for of and nas for awhile.
Without knowing for sure, its possible nas injury last year could have been stress related. Him and og were starting from day one but what choice did we have? If we draft garett we can protect him. Garett can get stronger on an nfl practice field against nfl ol. Theres zero need to risk a season ending injury cause he got tired at the end of a game, which is when the injuries happen
Sorry, I misunderstood your point about not starting Garrett to mean not playing him right away here. Yeah, I'd be okay with seeing him get about 50% of the reps early on.
While I like your points about Bosa's strength - every guy is wired differently. Bosa was a DE that had to shed some weight to be an edge rushing OLBer in a 3-4. Aside from the weight room, Joey also has a lot of country strong on that frame which is a good thing.
Myles Garrett looks ripped to the extent where adding weight might be at the expense of some explosion out of stance. Like the song says "I'm all about the base." I wouldn't mess with that too much. Clowney doesn't look like he was born to overpower and ragdoll OTs either. Dwight Freeney was only 255 lbs coming out of Syracuse prior to making 7 Pro Bowls (All Pro 3 times) and making the All Decade Team. That wasn't a Reggie White brute force/freight train either - it was a guy that consistently beat OTs with elite explosiveness off the ball that often included an unparalleled spin move. The way to beat this type of guy is to run right at him like a lot of Indy's playoff opponents opted to do when their goal was to get ahead of Indy & Manning early to prevent putting Freeney into pin his ears back mode.
Whatever the case may be, I was reluctant to leave the Jonathan Allen Camp for the consensus favoring Garrett until a few weeks ago. Either guy would be a terrific choice for us.
If memory serves me right, once Bosa finally got a contract he pulled his hamstring. Consequently, they didn't dress him for the 1st 3 games in lieu of re-aggravating the injury into something more serious and/or prolonging it. When he returned to action, they phased him in on a rep count to prevent further injury and build up the endurance lacking.
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Nope, Garrett is a freak of nature akin to Clowney.. Note that even with the t10 OL of the Pats, Clowney was completely unblockable in the playoff game. Can get the QB later - Garrett is literally priceless.
Also, Collins is the ILB not OLB. Sure, he's fast -- however the issue is that his skills are barely average at OLB. He's worth his contract at ILB.
"Not a single sack in Collins’ career has come from anywhere besides up the middle, and unsurprisingly he’s not a natural pass rusher"
Also, Collins is the ILB not OLB. Sure, he's fast -- however the issue is that his skills are barely average at OLB. He's worth his contract at ILB.
"Not a single sack in Collins’ career has come from anywhere besides up the middle, and unsurprisingly he’s not a natural pass rusher.
The reason I had Collins as an OLBer was due to where I found him on NE's 2016 depth chart prior to week 1. Collins was listed as the Strongside LBer, Jonathan Freeny was the MLB and Dont'a Hightower was the Weakside LBer.
I figured we'd follow suit with Collins in our switch to the 4-3 but you might have a good point.
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