Kyrie Irving thinks the earth is flat.
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You say the atheist has a huge hurdle to overcome. At least they are making the attempt to clear that hurdle. Someone who believes in a personal god, Creationism, etc, is just living in willful ignorance as they try to cherry pick facts to support their preselected conclusion. Do you see the difference there? You can't just CLA victory from a "God of the Gaps" argument.
If anything I'm an agnostic atheist. The idea some people have of a higher power is so broad I don't think you can ever disprove it. But if I had to bet on it, I'd say one doesn't exist.
But believing in a personal god is just silly. In literally countless ways. It is willful ignorance, which is the worst kind of ignorance. Thinking creationism is real is being complete, willfully ignorant.
You say the atheist has a huge hurdle to overcome. At least they are making the attempt to clear that hurdle. Someone who believes in a personal god, Creationism, etc, is just living in willful ignorance as they try to cherry pick facts to support their preselected conclusion. Do you see the difference there? You can't just CLA victory from a "God of the Gaps" argument.
If anything I'm an agnostic atheist. The idea some people have of a higher power is so broad I don't think you can ever disprove it. But if I had to bet on it, I'd say one doesn't exist.
But believing in a personal god is just silly. In literally countless ways. It is willful ignorance, which is the worst kind of ignorance. Thinking creationism is real is being complete, willfully ignorant.
It's not nearly so silly when you experience a personal God. My son for instance failed his hearing test at school and we were told he had 50 percent hearing loss in both ears and to take him to a specialist. The specialist said the same thing after examining him and further said it was permanent and he would have to wear hearing aids for the rest of his life. We took him to Childrens Hospital to another specialist and got the same diagnosis of 50 percent hearing loss in both ears, it was permanent and he would have to wear hearing aids the rest of his life. After church a friend of mine asked if he could pray with my son as he said he felt led to pray for his hearing. The next day my son had an appointment to get fitted for hearing aids. They tested him again but this time they found no hearing loss at all and in fact the doctor asked my wife and I why we wanted hearing aids for a child that had perfect hearing. This was at age 8 and he is now 33 years old and still has perfect hearing. True story.
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OBF, you wouldn't question a God that answers a prayer about a kid's hearing but ignores millions of other prayers and lets kids get raped and murdered?
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If God miracled something minor in my life, I would actually be pissed at him and not relieved. Others may feel differently.
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I remember I had a bad injury years ago and I took "something" to help meditate one night, not going to go into what it was...but I felt my body buzzing that night and had weird floating sensations. Nothing I could possibly describe. Anyway I just chocked it up to what I had taken, but the next day my injury was gone. Of course my zealot mother told me on the phone oh ofc jesus healed you, I was praying for you. Cause everything good that happens is the direct result of jesus with these people. I humored her cause I wasn't about to tell her what I took but in any case, I believe these things that OBF described are possible. But the "power' behind these things has more to do with us than some god that answers to relatively small meaningless wishes in some cases. Not OBF"s kids hearing, but seriously little shit...my mother prays to god or some other saint when she loses her keys and then she finds them on her own hours later and feels the need to tell me about it as proof that her god exists.
Like Logic said, if god has the free time to find your keys for you.........like wtf dude are you unaware of all the real shit going down here?
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You say the atheist has a huge hurdle to overcome. At least they are making the attempt to clear that hurdle. Someone who believes in a personal god, Creationism, etc, is just living in willful ignorance as they try to cherry pick facts to support their preselected conclusion. Do you see the difference there? You can't just CLA victory from a "God of the Gaps" argument.
If anything I'm an agnostic atheist. The idea some people have of a higher power is so broad I don't think you can ever disprove it. But if I had to bet on it, I'd say one doesn't exist.
But believing in a personal god is just silly. In literally countless ways. It is willful ignorance, which is the worst kind of ignorance. Thinking creationism is real is being complete, willfully ignorant.
It's not nearly so silly when you experience a personal God. My son for instance failed his hearing test at school and we were told he had 50 percent hearing loss in both ears and to take him to a specialist. The specialist said the same thing after examining him and further said it was permanent and he would have to wear hearing aids for the rest of his life. We took him to Childrens Hospital to another specialist and got the same diagnosis of 50 percent hearing loss in both ears, it was permanent and he would have to wear hearing aids the rest of his life. After church a friend of mine asked if he could pray with my son as he said he felt led to pray for his hearing. The next day my son had an appointment to get fitted for hearing aids. They tested him again but this time they found no hearing loss at all and in fact the doctor asked my wife and I why we wanted hearing aids for a child that had perfect hearing. This was at age 8 and he is now 33 years old and still has perfect hearing. True story.
It's not nearly so silly when you experience a personal God. My son for instance failed his hearing test at school and we were told he had 50 percent hearing loss in both ears and to take him to a specialist. The specialist said the same thing after examining him and further said it was permanent and he would have to wear hearing aids for the rest of his life. We took him to Childrens Hospital to another specialist and got the same diagnosis of 50 percent hearing loss in both ears, it was permanent and he would have to wear hearing aids the rest of his life. After church a friend of mine asked if he could pray with my son as he said he felt led to pray for his hearing. The next day my son had an appointment to get fitted for hearing aids. They tested him again but this time they found no hearing loss at all and in fact the doctor asked my wife and I why we wanted hearing aids for a child that had perfect hearing. This was at age 8 and he is now 33 years old and still has perfect hearing. True story.
So basically you're saying a school nurse screwed up a hearing test. That makes a lot more sense than Divine Intervention by god, no offense.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
OBF, you wouldn't question a God that answers a prayer about a kid's hearing but ignores millions of other prayers and lets kids get raped and murdered?
OBF, you wouldn't question a God that answers a prayer about a kid's hearing but ignores millions of other prayers and lets kids get raped and murdered?
The message of the bible is to keep trusting even if we don't understand all the why's. There were other times my son was not healed after prayer (for other issues) and had to have surgery. And I was just thankful for surgeons. The point you make is the reason I have said a number of times that outside of the bible it is hard to make the case for a personal God because then you have all those why's? The bible answers many of them but not all.
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It's not nearly so silly when you experience a personal God. My son for instance failed his hearing test at school and we were told he had 50 percent hearing loss in both ears and to take him to a specialist. The specialist said the same thing after examining him and further said it was permanent and he would have to wear hearing aids for the rest of his life. We took him to Childrens Hospital to another specialist and got the same diagnosis of 50 percent hearing loss in both ears, it was permanent and he would have to wear hearing aids the rest of his life. After church a friend of mine asked if he could pray with my son as he said he felt led to pray for his hearing. The next day my son had an appointment to get fitted for hearing aids. They tested him again but this time they found no hearing loss at all and in fact the doctor asked my wife and I why we wanted hearing aids for a child that had perfect hearing. This was at age 8 and he is now 33 years old and still has perfect hearing. True story.
So basically you're saying a school nurse screwed up a hearing test. That makes a lot more sense than Divine Intervention by god, no offense.
So basically you're saying a school nurse screwed up a hearing test. That makes a lot more sense than Divine Intervention by god, no offense.
It started with the hearing test at school and if this was wrong then the specialist in town we took him to was also wrong and the hearing doctors at Children's Hospital had to be wrong as well as they all gave us the same diagnosis. 50 percent hearing loss both ears, it was permanent and he would have to wear hearing aids the rest of his life.
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Sudden Sensorineural Hearing Loss: http://m.hear-it.org/Sudden-Hearing-Loss
Recovery:
Spontaneous recovery occurs in 32-79% of the cases, usually within the first two weeks. The chances of full hearing recovery are smaller for patients with severe loss of hearing and when the sudden sensorineural hearing loss is accompanied by vertigo. The younger the patient, the greater the likelihood of a full recovery.
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Oh. My. God. Please tell me that there aren't people on this board that believe the world is flat...
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Don't worry, OBF, it's par for the course. The libs won't ridicule a Muslim,
but the first time you explain about being a Christian, the hard core ones
go after you.
The time I told how I nearly died in the middle of winter, as a kid, I got ridiculed about it,
Too bad. Seems that when history or reality confronts their hardcore emotions, they attack.
EDIT: referring to cleve who mocks most anything, anyways.
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OBF, you wouldn't question a God that answers a prayer about a kid's hearing but ignores millions of other prayers and lets kids get raped and murdered?
OBF, you wouldn't question a God that answers a prayer about a kid's hearing but ignores millions of other prayers and lets kids get raped and murdered?
This is a serious, age old question. The Biblical answer has to do with the angelic conflict,
and mankind's free will.
https://www.gotquestions.org/angelic-conflict.html
I had an incredible miracle that saved my young life. And the truth is, why doesn't
everybody get a miracle... after that incident, I used to go out into the middle of our 147
acres, mostly virgin timber, and would sit on "mossy hill" ...thick moss was all atop it,
underneath giant beech and oak trees. I would talk to God, because believe me,
at that time, for the first time, I KNEW God was there. Seriously, while my Dad was
at work, I'd sit for hours there.
I honestly expected to hear that Charlton Heston Ten Commandments voice come
down from the heavens and explain it to me. But it never did.
As I said to that, one time, in speech class.. it was just as well I didn't hear it,
because I didn't want to be a preacher anyways......
Is the angelic conflict really an allegory? don't know. I just know I miraculously got a second
chance to be a great kid, son, friend, husband... the hideous evil, and the wonderul good in
this world, sure seems like the angelic conflict to me....
-
Don't worry, OBF, it's par for the course. The libs won't ridicule a Muslim,
but the first time you explain about being a Christian, the hard core ones
go after you.
The time I told how I nearly died in the middle of winter, as a kid, I got ridiculed about it,
Too bad. Seems that when history or reality confronts their hardcore emotions, they attack.
EDIT: referring to cleve who mocks most anything, anyways.
Don't worry, OBF, it's par for the course. The libs won't ridicule a Muslim,
but the first time you explain about being a Christian, the hard core ones
go after you.
The time I told how I nearly died in the middle of winter, as a kid, I got ridiculed about it,
Too bad. Seems that when history or reality confronts their hardcore emotions, they attack.
EDIT: referring to cleve who mocks most anything, anyways.
There is one Muslim on this board (as far as I am aware) and I think people have thoroughly let him know how they feel about Islam.
People debate with OBF about it because he is a pretty reasonable guy to debate with. There will be knuckleheads who say nonsense to him but for the most part this has seemed pretty civil.
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OBF, you wouldn't question a God that answers a prayer about a kid's hearing but ignores millions of other prayers and lets kids get raped and murdered?
This is a serious, age old question. The Biblical answer has to do with the angelic conflict,
and mankind's free will.
https://www.gotquestions.org/angelic-conflict.html
I had an incredible miracle that saved my young life. And the truth is, why doesn't
everybody get a miracle... after that incident, I used to go out into the middle of our 147
acres, mostly virgin timber, and would sit on "mossy hill" ...thick moss was all atop it,
underneath giant beech and oak trees. I would talk to God, because believe me,
at that time, for the first time, I KNEW God was there. Seriously, while my Dad was
at work, I'd sit for hours there.
I honestly expected to hear that Charlton Heston Ten Commandments voice come
down from the heavens and explain it to me. But it never did.
As I said to that, one time, in speech class.. it was just as well I didn't hear it,
because I didn't want to be a preacher anyways......
Is the angelic conflict really an allegory? don't know. I just know I miraculously got a second
chance to be a great kid, son, friend, husband... the hideous evil, and the wonderul good in
this world, sure seems like the angelic conflict to me....
This is a serious, age old question. The Biblical answer has to do with the angelic conflict,
and mankind's free will.
https://www.gotquestions.org/angelic-conflict.html
I had an incredible miracle that saved my young life. And the truth is, why doesn't
everybody get a miracle... after that incident, I used to go out into the middle of our 147
acres, mostly virgin timber, and would sit on "mossy hill" ...thick moss was all atop it,
underneath giant beech and oak trees. I would talk to God, because believe me,
at that time, for the first time, I KNEW God was there. Seriously, while my Dad was
at work, I'd sit for hours there.
I honestly expected to hear that Charlton Heston Ten Commandments voice come
down from the heavens and explain it to me. But it never did.
As I said to that, one time, in speech class.. it was just as well I didn't hear it,
because I didn't want to be a preacher anyways......
Is the angelic conflict really an allegory? don't know. I just know I miraculously got a second
chance to be a great kid, son, friend, husband... the hideous evil, and the wonderul good in
this world, sure seems like the angelic conflict to me....
While you know I don't believe in a higher power, this is a better religious explanation then "welp God works in mysterious ways". Thank you, Cal.
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As a role model he should know better than to be an idiot
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Magic donkeys and healing prayer.
I'm sorry, but I can't believe something with 0 evidence. Of course the Bible tells you the magic won't work every time, but keep believing. The people that wrote it want to keep their believers in line. Contingency plans and all that. I just don't understand how someone can be so gullible.
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
Magic donkeys and healing prayer.
I'm sorry, but I can't believe something with 0 evidence. Of course the Bible tells you the magic won't work every time, but keep believing. The people that wrote it want to keep their believers in line. Contingency plans and all that. I just don't understand how someone can be so gullible.
Magic donkeys and healing prayer.
I'm sorry, but I can't believe something with 0 evidence. Of course the Bible tells you the magic won't work every time, but keep believing. The people that wrote it want to keep their believers in line. Contingency plans and all that. I just don't understand how someone can be so gullible.
Scary dark people. I see no evidence. Atheist good. Believer bad.
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OBF, you wouldn't question a God that answers a prayer about a kid's hearing but ignores millions of other prayers and lets kids get raped and murdered?
This is a serious, age old question. The Biblical answer has to do with the angelic conflict,
and mankind's free will.
https://www.gotquestions.org/angelic-conflict.html
I had an incredible miracle that saved my young life. And the truth is, why doesn't
everybody get a miracle... after that incident, I used to go out into the middle of our 147
acres, mostly virgin timber, and would sit on "mossy hill" ...thick moss was all atop it,
underneath giant beech and oak trees. I would talk to God, because believe me,
at that time, for the first time, I KNEW God was there. Seriously, while my Dad was
at work, I'd sit for hours there.
I honestly expected to hear that Charlton Heston Ten Commandments voice come
down from the heavens and explain it to me. But it never did.
As I said to that, one time, in speech class.. it was just as well I didn't hear it,
because I didn't want to be a preacher anyways......
Is the angelic conflict really an allegory? don't know. I just know I miraculously got a second
chance to be a great kid, son, friend, husband... the hideous evil, and the wonderul good in
this world, sure seems like the angelic conflict to me....
This is a serious, age old question. The Biblical answer has to do with the angelic conflict,
and mankind's free will.
https://www.gotquestions.org/angelic-conflict.html
I had an incredible miracle that saved my young life. And the truth is, why doesn't
everybody get a miracle... after that incident, I used to go out into the middle of our 147
acres, mostly virgin timber, and would sit on "mossy hill" ...thick moss was all atop it,
underneath giant beech and oak trees. I would talk to God, because believe me,
at that time, for the first time, I KNEW God was there. Seriously, while my Dad was
at work, I'd sit for hours there.
I honestly expected to hear that Charlton Heston Ten Commandments voice come
down from the heavens and explain it to me. But it never did.
As I said to that, one time, in speech class.. it was just as well I didn't hear it,
because I didn't want to be a preacher anyways......
Is the angelic conflict really an allegory? don't know. I just know I miraculously got a second
chance to be a great kid, son, friend, husband... the hideous evil, and the wonderul good in
this world, sure seems like the angelic conflict to me....
I believe the spiritual conflict is real. Logic brought up probably the main point many atheists have towards belief in a personal God (and something I have thought about as well) and that is why God would allow such terrible things to happen such as a young child with cancer or any number of horrible things that happen to innocent people? Why if God could intervene and prevent it wouldn't He? The bible gives an answer on many of these questions but they are spiritual in nature and if you don't believe in anything spiritual you won't accept it. The bible says satan is the god of this world 2 Cor 4:4 and that is and always has been the problem. We live in a world dominated by satan and demonic forces. For all the mockery thrown at God speaking the universe into existence for me it still holds up as the better argument than out of absolute nothing came the physical universe. And the bible is correct in stating the universe had a beginning which science agrees with today. The spiritual realm is even more real than the physical realm because the physical realm was created from the spiritual realm.
Daniel ch 10 shows clearly the curtain being pulled back and the spiritual battle in the spiritual realm. An angel tells Daniel that his prayer was heard the first day he prayed but the angelic messenger was delayed in battle bringing the answer to him. This is all about the spiritual realm and the conflict in the heavenlies. The angel spoke of the spiritual conflict with the prince of Persia and he is not speaking of any human here but demonic angels behind the scenes. I believe that same demonic prince of Persia is still there today ruling behind the scenes.
The Apostle Paul says the same thing that the real conflict is behind the scenes in the spiritual realm where the battle lies. It is not with people it is with demonic forces working through people. Ephesians 6:12.
Thanks for posting that Cal about the angelic conflict. It kind of prodded me to go there.
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So to recap the Kyrieistic view of th the world.....what exactly happens when we shoot up GPS, weather, communications and other satellites not to mention real human beings up to orbit the earth?
Are they really going around the earth taking pictures or are they just on a big carousel like a big record player? Wouldn't they see each other?
Too confusing for my little brain comprehend.
-
This is a serious, age old question. The Biblical answer has to do with the angelic conflict,
and mankind's free will.
https://www.gotquestions.org/angelic-conflict.html
I had an incredible miracle that saved my young life. And the truth is, why doesn't
everybody get a miracle... after that incident, I used to go out into the middle of our 147
acres, mostly virgin timber, and would sit on "mossy hill" ...thick moss was all atop it,
underneath giant beech and oak trees. I would talk to God, because believe me,
at that time, for the first time, I KNEW God was there. Seriously, while my Dad was
at work, I'd sit for hours there.
I honestly expected to hear that Charlton Heston Ten Commandments voice come
down from the heavens and explain it to me. But it never did.
As I said to that, one time, in speech class.. it was just as well I didn't hear it,
because I didn't want to be a preacher anyways......
Is the angelic conflict really an allegory? don't know. I just know I miraculously got a second
chance to be a great kid, son, friend, husband... the hideous evil, and the wonderul good in
this world, sure seems like the angelic conflict to me....
I believe the spiritual conflict is real. Logic brought up probably the main point many atheists have towards belief in a personal God (and something I have thought about as well) and that is why God would allow such terrible things to happen such as a young child with cancer or any number of horrible things that happen to innocent people? Why if God could intervene and prevent it wouldn't He? The bible gives an answer on many of these questions but they are spiritual in nature and if you don't believe in anything spiritual you won't accept it. The bible says satan is the god of this world 2 Cor 4:4 and that is and always has been the problem. We live in a world dominated by satan and demonic forces. For all the mockery thrown at God speaking the universe into existence for me it still holds up as the better argument than out of absolute nothing came the physical universe. And the bible is correct in stating the universe had a beginning which science agrees with today. The spiritual realm is even more real than the physical realm because the physical realm was created from the spiritual realm.
Daniel ch 10 shows clearly the curtain being pulled back and the spiritual battle in the spiritual realm. An angel tells Daniel that his prayer was heard the first day he prayed but the angelic messenger was delayed in battle bringing the answer to him. This is all about the spiritual realm and the conflict in the heavenlies. The angel spoke of the spiritual conflict with the prince of Persia and he is not speaking of any human here but demonic angels behind the scenes. I believe that same demonic prince of Persia is still there today ruling behind the scenes.
The Apostle Paul says the same thing that the real conflict is behind the scenes in the spiritual realm where the battle lies. It is not with people it is with demonic forces working through people. Ephesians 6:12.
Thanks for posting that Cal about the angelic conflict. It kind of prodded me to go there.
The bible says satan is the god of this world 2 Cor 4:4 and that is and always has been the problem.
I've always found this hard to comprehend seeing as Hell was damnation AND imprisonment for Satan. Whom set him loose?
While we're at it, if Satan is the God of this world - how will the 'meek inherit the Earth'...?
Finally, Satan hath created the affliction is a convenient..... excuse. (For lack of a better word)
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