Watson Undraftable
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Pretty much the exact same thing. Unless you think QB's like Weeden are all the rage?
No...you made a suggestion that velocity does not matter AT ALL. While certainly other factors perhaps matter more...do scouts in fact have an issue with a guy with such a low velocity.
Go ahead and show me a statement by an NFL scout that MPH don't matter.
No...you made a suggestion that velocity does not matter AT ALL. While certainly other factors perhaps matter more...do scouts in fact have an issue with a guy with such a low velocity.
Go ahead and show me a statement by an NFL scout that MPH don't matter.
At All? Oh, please.... highlight where I said that.
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Conversely i figured i would measure Mahomes and his very first throw i watched clocked in around 51 MPH.
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I'm going to do a little math and see if his arm strength is a cause for his interception problems
Watch some tape and have a beer going to be a good saturday afternoon
He hit 45mph once in two games in 2015 so far almost all of his throws
To prevent from using guess work and trigonometry I'm only looking at the speed on middle to middle type throws basically from the pocket to the middle or if the line in straight enough on a roll out.
I'm also giving the player benefit of doubt on timing rounding down and rounding yardage up. For example watson throws from roughly the 20-21 yardline the pass catcher catches the ball on the 43-44. I just start at the 20 and put the receiver on the 45 so i cant it as a 35 yard pass. when it was likely only 32 even 31. Player gets the benefit. so we just calculate the speed using S=D/T and we get the approximate speed of the throw.
Using the above example if the ball got there in 1.75 seconds it would be traveling 40.91 MPH, If it arrived at 1.5 seconds it would be traveling at 47.73 MPHI'm going to do a little math and see if his arm strength is a cause for his interception problems
Watch some tape and have a beer going to be a good saturday afternoon
He hit 45mph once in two games in 2015 so far almost all of his throws
To prevent from using guess work and trigonometry I'm only looking at the speed on middle to middle type throws basically from the pocket to the middle or if the line in straight enough on a roll out.
I'm also giving the player benefit of doubt on timing rounding down and rounding yardage up. For example watson throws from roughly the 20-21 yardline the pass catcher catches the ball on the 43-44. I just start at the 20 and put the receiver on the 45 so i cant it as a 35 yard pass. when it was likely only 32 even 31. Player gets the benefit. so we just calculate the speed using S=D/T and we get the approximate speed of the throw.
Using the above example if the ball got there in 1.75 seconds it would be traveling 40.91 MPH, If it arrived at 1.5 seconds it would be traveling at 47.73 MPH
Do you run the Pythagorean theorem on it as well?
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I'm going to do a little math and see if his arm strength is a cause for his interception problems
Watch some tape and have a beer going to be a good saturday afternoon
He hit 45mph once in two games in 2015 so far almost all of his throws
To prevent from using guess work and trigonometry I'm only looking at the speed on middle to middle type throws basically from the pocket to the middle or if the line in straight enough on a roll out.
I'm also giving the player benefit of doubt on timing rounding down and rounding yardage up. For example watson throws from roughly the 20-21 yardline the pass catcher catches the ball on the 43-44. I just start at the 20 and put the receiver on the 45 so i cant it as a 35 yard pass. when it was likely only 32 even 31. Player gets the benefit. so we just calculate the speed using S=D/T and we get the approximate speed of the throw.
Using the above example if the ball got there in 1.75 seconds it would be traveling 40.91 MPH, If it arrived at 1.5 seconds it would be traveling at 47.73 MPH
Do you run the Pythagorean theorem on it as well?
Do you run the Pythagorean theorem on it as well?
Not unless i get a few more beers
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Conversely i figured i would measure Mahomes and his very first throw i watched clocked in around 51 MPH.
Conversely i figured i would measure Mahomes and his very first throw i watched clocked in around 51 MPH.
I remember back from my HS physics 60 mph = 88 fps. Obviously a thrown football isn't moving at a constant speed like a car. The farther it goes the slower it's moving. LOL, War- aeronautical engineering, air drag & loss of energy. (a rifle bullet is moving significantly slower at 300 yards than it is at muzzle velocity) Should I factor that into the equation? Hmmmm.... a guy who can throw a tight spiral probably has less air drag on the ball. But on a short throw probably is a minor factor. So Caine, what you're actually measuring with the stopwatch is the average speed of the ball, not peak velocity measured by a radar gun. After that digression- my point is- (and I'll try to make the math simple) Trubisky's velocity @ 55mph = 80.7 fps. Watson's velocity @ 49 mph = 71.9 fps. Ergo, on a 20 yard pass (60 feet) Trubisky's throw would get to the target almost 9 feet before Watson's would. Hell, Mahome's ball would get there 16 feet sooner, almost enough time for the receiver to stop for a cup of coffee before Watson's pass got there. OK exaggeration, If you're wondering- that's 2 tenths of a second. Significant? I'd like to think so.
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Conversely i figured i would measure Mahomes and his very first throw i watched clocked in around 51 MPH.
I remember back from my HS physics 60 mph = 88 fps. Obviously a thrown football isn't moving at a constant speed like a car. The farther it goes the slower it's moving. LOL, War- aeronautical engineering, air drag & loss of energy. (a rifle bullet is moving significantly slower at 300 yards than it is at muzzle velocity) Should I factor that into the equation? Hmmmm.... a guy who can throw a tight spiral probably has less air drag on the ball. But on a short throw probably is a minor factor. So Caine, what you're actually measuring with the stopwatch is the average speed of the ball, not peak velocity measured by a radar gun. After that digression- my point is- (and I'll try to make the math simple) Trubisky's velocity @ 55mph = 80.7 fps. Watson's velocity @ 49 mph = 71.9 fps. Ergo, on a 20 yard pass (60 feet) Trubisky's throw would get to the target almost 9 feet before Watson's would. Hell, Mahome's ball would get there 16 feet sooner, almost enough time for the receiver to stop for a cup of coffee before Watson's pass got there. OK exaggeration, If you're wondering- that's 2 tenths of a second. Significant? I'd like to think so.
I remember back from my HS physics 60 mph = 88 fps. Obviously a thrown football isn't moving at a constant speed like a car. The farther it goes the slower it's moving. LOL, War- aeronautical engineering, air drag & loss of energy. (a rifle bullet is moving significantly slower at 300 yards than it is at muzzle velocity) Should I factor that into the equation? Hmmmm.... a guy who can throw a tight spiral probably has less air drag on the ball. But on a short throw probably is a minor factor. So Caine, what you're actually measuring with the stopwatch is the average speed of the ball, not peak velocity measured by a radar gun. After that digression- my point is- (and I'll try to make the math simple) Trubisky's velocity @ 55mph = 80.7 fps. Watson's velocity @ 49 mph = 71.9 fps. Ergo, on a 20 yard pass (60 feet) Trubisky's throw would get to the target almost 9 feet before Watson's would. Significant? I'd like to think so.
Understandable Hoorta and that's true, I am measuring the average speed of the ball not peak velocity. Regardless the tape I've been watching this morning/afternoon you can CLEARLY see his arm strength is not as strong as the others in the class BUT i've yet to see it cause him to throw an INT yet. so far all of his INT's have been horrible decisions.
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plenty of excuses being made for a weak armed QB lol. Someone will take a flyer on this kid i just hope its not us
plenty of excuses being made for a weak armed QB lol. Someone will take a flyer on this kid i just hope its not us
HA! Especially when the alternative to that prospect is from Mentor,OH even if he was only good enough to start 13 games in his entire scholarship.
Anyone that saw the National Championship with an open mind understands Clemson wasn't exactly dragging Trent Dilfer to the trophy when it had to overcome an 18-21 point second half deficit. If there was defensive lineup stockpiled with more NFL talent than Alabama - I'd like to know who it was. Since Ohio State might be #2, exactly how God awful was Watson in that 31-0 WIN?
Meanwhile, the difference between NC beating Stanford and losing to them was Trubisky's pick 6 at least in terms of margin of defeat while the homers will fight like hell to tell me all QBs throw pick 6s. Sure, but the GREAT ones aren't beat by them because they overcome them. Choose your excuses wisely...
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plenty of excuses being made for a weak armed QB lol. Someone will take a flyer on this kid i just hope its not us
HA! Especially when the alternative to that prospect is from Mentor,OH even if he was only good enough to start 13 games in his entire scholarship.
Anyone that saw the National Championship with an open mind understands Clemson wasn't exactly dragging Trent Dilfer to the trophy when it had to overcome an 18-21 point second half deficit. If there was defensive lineup stockpiled with more NFL talent than Alabama - I'd like to know who it was. Since Ohio State might be #2, exactly how God awful was Watson in that 31-0 WIN?
Meanwhile, the difference between NC beating Stanford and losing to them was Trubisky's pick 6 at least in terms of margin of defeat while the homers will fight like hell to tell me all QBs throw pick 6s. Sure, but the GREAT ones aren't beat by them because they overcome them. Choose your excuses wisely...
HA! Especially when the alternative to that prospect is from Mentor,OH even if he was only good enough to start 13 games in his entire scholarship.
Anyone that saw the National Championship with an open mind understands Clemson wasn't exactly dragging Trent Dilfer to the trophy when it had to overcome an 18-21 point second half deficit. If there was defensive lineup stockpiled with more NFL talent than Alabama - I'd like to know who it was. Since Ohio State might be #2, exactly how God awful was Watson in that 31-0 WIN?
Meanwhile, the difference between NC beating Stanford and losing to them was Trubisky's pick 6 at least in terms of margin of defeat while the homers will fight like hell to tell me all QBs throw pick 6s. Sure, but the GREAT ones aren't beat by them because they overcome them. Choose your excuses wisely...
Flugel i doubt you have watched much tape. its about a whole body of work not just one game and also WINS ARE NOT A QB STAT.
You wanna talk about NFL Talent? Clemson 2016 9 Selections in the draft Alabama 7 selections. Alabama AND Clemson are both in the top 5 when considering NFL Talent this year. It's a non factor.
Also you can argue against Trubisky if you want but he ELEVATED the program at the QB posistion Watson did not. He actually made it worse compared to Boyd.
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http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=17800766
Here you go flugels here's watson throwing a pick 6 and its horrible decision
BUT
Because the team is FILLED with so much talent the TEAM can overcome it. -
http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=17800766
Here you go flugels here's watson throwing a pick 6 and its horrible decision
BUT
Because the team is FILLED with so much talent the TEAM can overcome it.http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=17800766
Here you go flugels here's watson throwing a pick 6 and its horrible decision
BUT
Because the team is FILLED with so much talent the TEAM can overcome it.
I thought I said everyone can throw the pick 6 but the great ones can overcome them as depicted in Watson's 28-2 record the last 2 years despite not being from Ohio. You saw it in the Superbowl with Brady. What did both Championship winning QBs have in common when their margin of error sunk all the way to zero? They needed to erase big second half deficits without making 1 mistake and they did. Your excuse was greatly appreciated but winners don't need them.
NC was 11-3 in 2015 before they started needing excuses in 2016. Now here's where the fun starts, what changed?
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Lets all get hyped for a QB that has more INT than he has career starts. I'm stoked for one.
Again Flugel watch some tape and see we are not talking about wins and losses we are talking about positional talent on any given drop back. -
http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=17800766
Here you go flugels here's watson throwing a pick 6 and its horrible decision
BUT
Because the team is FILLED with so much talent the TEAM can overcome it.http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=17800766
Here you go flugels here's watson throwing a pick 6 and its horrible decision
BUT
Because the team is FILLED with so much talent the TEAM can overcome it.
I thought I said everyone can throw the pick 6 but the great ones can overcome them as depicted in Watson's 28-2 record the last 2 years despite not being from Ohio. You saw it in the Superbowl with Brady. What did both Championship winning QBs have in common when their margin of error sunk all the way to zero? They needed to erase big second half deficits without making 1 mistake and they did. Your excuse was greatly appreciated but winners don't need them.
NC was 11-3 in 2015 before they started needing excuses in 2016. Now here's where the fun starts, what changed?
Colt McCoy won a lot of games at Texas. .
Can't let it go that Watson played on a great TEAM, huh? Final NCAA rankings- Clemson #1, North Carolina #43. Had NC beaten NC State, Clemson would have blown them out as badly in the conference championship as they did Ohio State in the playoff. Takes more than a great qb to make a great team. I would dare posit if you had put Trubisky on Clemson- the results would have been the same. How many of those guys besides Watson are going to get drafted? Williams first WR off the board?
NC record was worse in 2016 as opposed to 2015? Ever hear of graduation?
Come April, in all likelihood two North Carolina players are going to get their names called- Trubisky and Switzer, (late)
Let it go Tom- I already said Watson passes your eye test, just like Trubisky does mine. No need to "prove" anything. Clemson also beat Alabama on an illegal pick that they ran once before in the game. The refs throw the hanky, and your big winner just lost the game.
No one is arguing that Watson was a great college qb. But we're discussing pro potential here.
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I remember back from my HS physics 60 mph = 88 fps. Obviously a thrown football isn't moving at a constant speed like a car. The farther it goes the slower it's moving. LOL, War- aeronautical engineering, air drag & loss of energy. (a rifle bullet is moving significantly slower at 300 yards than it is at muzzle velocity) Should I factor that into the equation? Hmmmm.... a guy who can throw a tight spiral probably has less air drag on the ball. But on a short throw probably is a minor factor. So Caine, what you're actually measuring with the stopwatch is the average speed of the ball, not peak velocity measured by a radar gun.
After that digression- my point is- (and I'll try to make the math simple) Trubisky's velocity @ 55mph = 80.7 fps. Watson's velocity @ 49 mph = 71.9 fps. Ergo, on a 20 yard pass (60 feet) Trubisky's throw would get to the target almost 9 feet before Watson's would. Significant? I'd like to think so.
Understandable Hoorta and that's true, I am measuring the average speed of the ball not peak velocity. Regardless the tape I've been watching this morning/afternoon you can CLEARLY see his arm strength is not as strong as the others in the class BUT i've yet to see it cause him to throw an INT yet. so far all of his INT's have been horrible decisions.
... BUT i've yet to see it cause him to throw an INT yet. so far all of his INT's have been horrible decisions.
Matches my memory of the limited tape I've seen... 4 games I believe.
Was Watson in a bad weather, strong wind game that might be telling?
Also you can argue against Trubisky if you want but he ELEVATED the program at the QB posistion Watson did not. He actually made it worse compared to Boyd.
How much of that would you attribute to Boyd's running?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Watson "undraftable"? You wouldn't spend a 7th on him? Hyperbole is annoying.
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plenty of excuses being made for a weak armed QB lol. Someone will take a flyer on this kid i just hope its not us
plenty of excuses being made for a weak armed QB lol. Someone will take a flyer on this kid i just hope its not us
until he's this years version of dak prescott. then u'll be eating your words like a greasy pizza box cover cuz it has cheese stuck to it.
PLLEEEEZZZ.
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55 is that guys cut off and for good reason if you back through the years
Well....show us the data from "back through the years". It is something I have never seen.
Well....show us the data from "back through the years". It is something I have never seen.
It's on the same spreadsheet linked in the opening post?
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Looking back through the years, of all the QBs deemed undraftable, the only ones who have shown any kind of Promise are Tyrod Taylor and Dak Prescott, although Prescott doesn't count because he was either injured or just coming off of injury when he was clocked.
So Tyrod Taylor is the only viable QB of the undraftables, which means that
a. Deshaun could be the 2nd decent undraftable QB
b. Watson becoming a legit franchise QB would be unprecedented.
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Undraftable is a bit much admittedly. 3rd or later is a spot i've been at all year with watson. But with that low of throw speed you gotta wonder
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http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=17800766
Here you go flugels here's watson throwing a pick 6 and its horrible decision
BUT
Because the team is FILLED with so much talent the TEAM can overcome it.
I thought I said everyone can throw the pick 6 but the great ones can overcome them as depicted in Watson's 28-2 record the last 2 years despite not being from Ohio. You saw it in the Superbowl with Brady. What did both Championship winning QBs have in common when their margin of error sunk all the way to zero? They needed to erase big second half deficits without making 1 mistake and they did. Your excuse was greatly appreciated but winners don't need them.
NC was 11-3 in 2015 before they started needing excuses in 2016. Now here's where the fun starts, what changed?
Colt McCoy won a lot of games at Texas. .
Can't let it go that Watson played on a great TEAM, huh? Final NCAA rankings- Clemson #1, North Carolina #43. Had NC beaten NC State, Clemson would have blown them out as badly in the conference championship as they did Ohio State in the playoff. Takes more than a great qb to make a great team. I would dare posit if you had put Trubisky on Clemson- the results would have been the same. How many of those guys besides Watson are going to get drafted? Williams first WR off the board?
NC record was worse in 2016 as opposed to 2015? Ever hear of graduation?
Come April, in all likelihood two North Carolina players are going to get their names called- Trubisky and Switzer, (late)
Let it go Tom- I already said Watson passes your eye test, just like Trubisky does mine. No need to "prove" anything. Clemson also beat Alabama on an illegal pick that they ran once before in the game. The refs throw the hanky, and your big winner just lost the game.
No one is arguing that Watson was a great college qb. But we're discussing pro potential here.
Colt McCoy won a lot of games at Texas. .
Can't let it go that Watson played on a great TEAM, huh? Final NCAA rankings- Clemson #1, North Carolina #43. Had NC beaten NC State, Clemson would have blown them out as badly in the conference championship as they did Ohio State in the playoff. Takes more than a great qb to make a great team. I would dare posit if you had put Trubisky on Clemson- the results would have been the same. How many of those guys besides Watson are going to get drafted? Williams first WR off the board?
NC record was worse in 2016 as opposed to 2015? Ever hear of graduation?
Come April, in all likelihood two North Carolina players are going to get their names called- Trubisky and Switzer, (late)
Let it go Tom- I already said Watson passes your eye test, just like Trubisky does mine. No need to "prove" anything. Clemson also beat Alabama on an illegal pick that they ran once before in the game. The refs throw the hanky, and your big winner just lost the game.
No one is arguing that Watson was a great college qb. But we're discussing pro potential here.
How about 1 FREAKING example of me ever typing I want the Browns to draft Watson in round 1? In fact, I have repeatedly typed I don't want a QB in round 1 of this draft. So who needs to let it go - me or the guy with a stinger between his thighs that makes the Levi's rise for Trubisky in round 1?
I've only posted I'd keep an open mind if we were to draft Watson in round 2 with all the reasons why.
The context of the discussion you showed up to is Caine does not think Watson is a great college QB. While he has told me in 2 different threads that Clemson's defense has carried Watson to 2 consecutive National Championship Games, the reality is Watson led Clemson to 41 and 35 points in successive National Championship Games against Bama (that's 76 points) while he also led them to 31 points over Ohio State. Those 2 defenses have more NFL prospects in them than any other teams. Meanwhile the only 2 games Clemson lost during Watson's 28-2 record were decided on the final seconds on days he led his offense to over 40 points vrs Pitt and Bama. If BIG TIME QB shows up in BIG TIME games, Boyd never got it done vrs Florida State to sell me that Boyd was as good. The ACC sucked back then while they had the best record in Bowl Games this year as well as the best record in out of conference play. We already had this entire debate previously but Caine was very disappointed that Watson looked like the best QB at the combine.
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