Youtube Scouting Report Series
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I'm really liking Howard at 12 as well. My biggest concern is that other teams will like him BEFORE we pick, but I guess there's not much we can do about that. I don't like him enough to trade up for him, as I want to keep as many of our resources as possible. The good news is, history tells us that Howard will most likely be available at 12. I can't think of too many tight ends that have been taken in the top 12 over the years, and the last high drafted one I can think of is the Lions' Ebron. He's been effective, but I really don't think he's provided the type of impact the Lions and their fans envisioned. Definitely not a bust, but also hasn't had that "giant impact" as of yet. He's still young, and I'm thinking he better be get to it this year or there will be some disappointed individuals. Before Ebron, the last TE I can think of that went top 12 was Kellen Winslow. Injuries, illness, and stupidity robbed him of his best years and explosiveness, but he was still a solid player when on the field. I can still see him on the field for that Cowboys onsides kick with virtually no time on the clock...Jesus man. Oh, and btw...that catch he had against the Cardinals should've been counted as a touchdown according to the rules back then. If the game was in Cleveland, the refs would've ruled in our favor...no doubt in my mind. Anyways, I'm sure there have been other tight ends drafted high, but I just can't think of them. It's definitely a rarity, but Howard possesses the rare athletic abilities and mismatch potential to warrant such a high selection, and I think he fits the concept of what we're trying to do. What's that you might ask? Well, I think we're trying to make the game as easy as possible on our QB's and take the pressure off them as much as the game allows. We're building a stronger OL, we're going to try and run the ball, Howard would be the tight end that could really help a young QB, and we're investing in our defense. Our coaches and front office know we don't currently have a QB that you just hand the ball to and hope he makes enough plays to win the game. We need a strong supporting cast and physical defense, and that's what we're hoping to build.
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Agree... Let the draft come to us. One of the impact players in this draft will fall to us at 12. OJH is just one of the possibilities.
Good memory, too... Winslow was a #6 and Ebron a 10. Ebron has had such an impact that DET is widely rumored to be looking for a new TE.
Another recent #6 was Vernon Davis... another "all the talent in the world" TE that never quite materialized although he has stayed pretty much healthy for a decade.
In all there have been 19 TEs taken in Rnd 1 since 2000. The vast majority of them, 14, in the 2nd half of the round. Joining the above three in the top half are Bubba Franks (14) and Jeremy Shockey (14).
The bottom halfers are: Anthony Becht (?), Todd Heap, Daniel Graham and Jerramy Stevens, Dallas Clark, Ben Watson, Heath Miller, Mercedes Lewis, Greg Olsen, Dustin Keller, Brandon Pettigrew, Jermaine Gresham, and Tyler Eifert.
Above is not from memory.... http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?position=TE&type=position
Couple things strike me...
- The top half picks tend to be one-dimensional, receiving TEs... a/k/a "hood ornaments"?
- A lot of great, two-dimensional TEs in the 2nd half list. Hard-pressed to see a one-D TE in the lot... maybe Eifert?
- The overall TE batting average in Round One looks to be pretty high, but it is dented by the top half's success rate.
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I remember looking at stats from rookie TE's the last 18 years and I'm pretty sure shockey and Gronk are the only two that eclipsed 7-800 yards.
In short - don't expect some offensive changing impact from a rookie at that spot.
It's another reason in my hesitancy of taking OJ that high. There's good value to be had mid rounds where you can find similar production.
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how can you guys not like what you see on jabrils tape? This kid is the real deal. I'm happy with either hooker, that other guy, or Peppers at 12.
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how can you guys not like what you see on jabrils tape? This kid is the real deal. I'm happy with either hooker, that other guy, or Peppers at 12.
how can you guys not like what you see on jabrils tape? This kid is the real deal. I'm happy with either hooker, that other guy, or Peppers at 12.
Clev, it takes full game tapes.Not just Highlight reels. Collins was a freelancer at Pats. Peppers was pretty much aloud to Rover,freelance,guesser you name it. He's a torpedo tackler with his head usually down missing wrap. Don't see him as a LB in this league. Pro scouts won't count on just highlight reels. Farmer may have
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends Team Brotherhood-"It's not about You,Me or I. It's about building We"..Hue Jackson -
how can you guys not like what you see on jabrils tape? This kid is the real deal. I'm happy with either hooker, that other guy, or Peppers at 12.
Clev, it takes full game tapes.Not just Highlight reels. Collins was a freelancer at Pats. Peppers was pretty much aloud to Rover,freelance,guesser you name it. He's a torpedo tackler with his head usually down missing wrap. Don't see him as a LB in this league. Pro scouts won't count on just highlight reels. Farmer may have
Clev, it takes full game tapes.Not just Highlight reels. Collins was a freelancer at Pats. Peppers was pretty much aloud to Rover,freelance,guesser you name it. He's a torpedo tackler with his head usually down missing wrap. Don't see him as a LB in this league. Pro scouts won't count on just highlight reels. Farmer may have
yeah i've looked at some of his "non highlight" tape and i still like it. He must be a very smart kid too cause he played what 4 different positions?
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how can you guys not like what you see on jabrils tape? This kid is the real deal. I'm happy with either hooker, that other guy, or Peppers at 12.
how can you guys not like what you see on jabrils tape? This kid is the real deal. I'm happy with either hooker, that other guy, or Peppers at 12.
Because I'm not Stevie Wonder and don't buy into hype without substance.
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Clev, it takes full game tapes.Not just Highlight reels. Collins was a freelancer at Pats. Peppers was pretty much aloud to Rover,freelance,guesser you name it. He's a torpedo tackler with his head usually down missing wrap. Don't see him as a LB in this league. Pro scouts won't count on just highlight reels. Farmer may have
yeah i've looked at some of his "non highlight" tape and i still like it. He must be a very smart kid too cause he played what 4 different positions?
He must be a very smart kid too cause he played what 4 different positions?
If you watched his combine stuff? He loves playing the game. no doubt a fun full of Convenience kid. He loves some of he? nothing wrong with that but is he a "team"mate or a TO? I would start with Harbaugh than look deeper..(no way at #12, just far better talent)
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends Team Brotherhood-"It's not about You,Me or I. It's about building We"..Hue Jackson -
Clev, it takes full game tapes.Not just Highlight reels. Collins was a freelancer at Pats. Peppers was pretty much aloud to Rover,freelance,guesser you name it. He's a torpedo tackler with his head usually down missing wrap. Don't see him as a LB in this league. Pro scouts won't count on just highlight reels. Farmer may have
yeah i've looked at some of his "non highlight" tape and i still like it. He must be a very smart kid too cause he played what 4 different positions?
yeah i've looked at some of his "non highlight" tape and i still like it. He must be a very smart kid too cause he played what 4 different positions?
15 positions
Harbaugh also said the top two college players he's coached in terms of football knowledge were Peppers and Andrew Luck
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He must be a very smart kid too cause he played what 4 different positions?
If you watched his combine stuff? He loves playing the game. no doubt a fun full of Convenience kid. He loves some of he? nothing wrong with that but is he a "team"mate or a TO? I would start with Harbaugh than look deeper..(no way at #12, just far better talent)
If you watched his combine stuff? He loves playing the game. no doubt a fun full of Convenience kid. He loves some of he? nothing wrong with that but is he a "team"mate or a TO? I would start with Harbaugh than look deeper..(no way at #12, just far better talent)
In what world do you get the indication he's a TO? They guy played literally every position he was asked so that he could help the team win, at the expense of his draft stock.
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how can you guys not like what you see on jabrils tape? This kid is the real deal. I'm happy with either hooker, that other guy, or Peppers at 12.
Because I'm not Stevie Wonder and don't buy into hype without substance.
Because I'm not Stevie Wonder and don't buy into hype without substance.
You just can't recognize substance then? Got it.
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
how can you guys not like what you see on jabrils tape? This kid is the real deal. I'm happy with either hooker, that other guy, or Peppers at 12.
Clev, it takes full game tapes.Not just Highlight reels. Collins was a freelancer at Pats. Peppers was pretty much aloud to Rover,freelance,guesser you name it. He's a torpedo tackler with his head usually down missing wrap. Don't see him as a LB in this league. Pro scouts won't count on just highlight reels. Farmer may have
Clev, it takes full game tapes.Not just Highlight reels. Collins was a freelancer at Pats. Peppers was pretty much aloud to Rover,freelance,guesser you name it. He's a torpedo tackler with his head usually down missing wrap. Don't see him as a LB in this league. Pro scouts won't count on just highlight reels. Farmer may have
I've watched every snap he's ever taken in college, plus high school tape. Peppers was not a "freelancer/guesser". He had a defined roll that encompassed a lot of things.
FYI, no one thinks he's going to be an NFL LB.
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
You just can't recognize substance then? Got it.
Your issue is that he's a UM player. Nothing more, nothing less.
I've offered several similar reviews of players that were hype and don't remember hearing so much as a peep from you.
Perhaps it's time to admit your own bias.
Meanwhile I'm more than objective regarding Buckeye players.
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Oh oh oh. That's my favorite.
"You're bias and your opinion doesn't count because you're a Michigan fan. But even though I'm an OSU fan I'm perfectly objective."
Right. Silly me for forgetting.
Maybe because I either a) agree with you or
don't know enough about the player. While in this case I disagree and do know a fair amount about the player. Oh, wait, hold on. I know the next one...."I've actually followed [insert player] just as much as you have. Probably even know more about him. I'm actually more knowledgeable than paid draft analysts. Especially Kiper. One time in [insert year] he said [insert player] would be [good / bad]. What an idiot! I clearly always thought the opposite."
That save us some time?
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Not bad, actually.
I'll just randomly rehash this conversation from time to time for the next couple years. Helps with perspective.
....unless WW3 starts then I reserve the right to fall off the grid.
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Good. We disagree on Peppers and neither can claim bias. (though that's still open with other OSU fans on here....)
I think Hooker is a beast and you probably like Jake Butt or something
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
Clev, it takes full game tapes.Not just Highlight reels. Collins was a freelancer at Pats. Peppers was pretty much aloud to Rover,freelance,guesser you name it. He's a torpedo tackler with his head usually down missing wrap. Don't see him as a LB in this league. Pro scouts won't count on just highlight reels. Farmer may have
I've watched every snap he's ever taken in college, plus high school tape. Peppers was not a "freelancer/guesser". He had a defined roll that encompassed a lot of things.
FYI, no one thinks he's going to be an NFL LB.
FYI, no one thinks he's going to be an NFL LB.
No that's me. If we were guaranteed the same Jake Butt before injury I'd take Jake over Peppers just to finish off our OL moves..As for Pep, Do you see him more of a FS or S? imo FS. I also see Pep as having to earn his rookie strips with a lot of tugging penalties.
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends Team Brotherhood-"It's not about You,Me or I. It's about building We"..Hue Jackson -
Good. We disagree on Peppers and neither can claim bias. (though that's still open with other OSU fans on here....)
I think Hooker is a beast and you probably like Jake Butt or something
Good. We disagree on Peppers and neither can claim bias. (though that's still open with other OSU fans on here....)
I think Hooker is a beast and you probably like Jake Butt or something
Probably.
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I remember looking at stats from rookie TE's the last 18 years and I'm pretty sure shockey and Gronk are the only two that eclipsed 7-800 yards.
In short - don't expect some offensive changing impact from a rookie at that spot.
It's another reason in my hesitancy of taking OJ that high. There's good value to be had mid rounds where you can find similar production.
FWIW my take on Peppers is that he's a very good player... maybe even very good at multiple positions, in multiple roles, but... is he great at any of them? I mean #12 overall great? That I do not see except possibly, and I've said this before, at running back, a position I will not spend a 12 upon. Otherwise, at his other positions, he's simply not among the "elites" of this draft class which, excepting "Edge", are classes of one or none.
As for Harbaugh's comment... his football smarts may stand out at the college level, but as with all player attributes any gap will be narrowed from August, '17 on. Besides "football smart" is a little like a roommate saying "she (or he) has a great personality."
It's another reason in my hesitancy of taking OJ that high. There's good value to be had mid rounds where you can find similar production.
Even if blocking efficiency is part of the "production" equation?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
FWIW my take on Peppers is that he's a very good player... maybe even very good at multiple positions, in multiple roles, but... is he great at any of them? I mean #12 overall great? That I do not see except possibly, and I've said this before, at running back, a position I will not spend a 12 upon. Otherwise, at his other positions, he's simply not among the "elites" of this draft class which, excepting "Edge", are classes of one or none.
As for Harbaugh's comment... his football smarts may stand out at the college level, but as with all player attributes any gap will be narrowed from August, '17 on. Besides "football smart" is a little like a roommate saying "she (or he) has a great personality."
It's another reason in my hesitancy of taking OJ that high. There's good value to be had mid rounds where you can find similar production.
Even if blocking efficiency is part of the "production" equation?
FWIW my take on Peppers is that he's a very good player... maybe even very good at multiple positions, in multiple roles, but... is he great at any of them? I mean #12 overall great? That I do not see except possibly, and I've said this before, at running back, a position I will not spend a 12 upon. Otherwise, at his other positions, he's simply not among the "elites" of this draft class which, excepting "Edge", are classes of one or none.
Exactly.....as a straight up safety, he would not be a first or rank with these other guys......it's his return skills and versatility that push him up there.....
A bit like Adore Jackson(one of my faves).....but the difference is that I believe Jackson to be a second round CB, with or without those return and offensive skills.....ie: he's a better CB than Peppers is S
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