Youtube Scouting Report Series
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Oh oh oh. That's my favorite.
"You're bias and your opinion doesn't count because you're a Michigan fan. But even though I'm an OSU fan I'm perfectly objective."
Right. Silly me for forgetting.
Maybe because I either a) agree with you or
don't know enough about the player. While in this case I disagree and do know a fair amount about the player. Oh, wait, hold on. I know the next one...."I've actually followed [insert player] just as much as you have. Probably even know more about him. I'm actually more knowledgeable than paid draft analysts. Especially Kiper. One time in [insert year] he said [insert player] would be [good / bad]. What an idiot! I clearly always thought the opposite."
That save us some time?
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Not bad, actually.
I'll just randomly rehash this conversation from time to time for the next couple years. Helps with perspective.
....unless WW3 starts then I reserve the right to fall off the grid.
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Good. We disagree on Peppers and neither can claim bias. (though that's still open with other OSU fans on here....)
I think Hooker is a beast and you probably like Jake Butt or something
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
Clev, it takes full game tapes.Not just Highlight reels. Collins was a freelancer at Pats. Peppers was pretty much aloud to Rover,freelance,guesser you name it. He's a torpedo tackler with his head usually down missing wrap. Don't see him as a LB in this league. Pro scouts won't count on just highlight reels. Farmer may have
I've watched every snap he's ever taken in college, plus high school tape. Peppers was not a "freelancer/guesser". He had a defined roll that encompassed a lot of things.
FYI, no one thinks he's going to be an NFL LB.
FYI, no one thinks he's going to be an NFL LB.
No that's me. If we were guaranteed the same Jake Butt before injury I'd take Jake over Peppers just to finish off our OL moves..As for Pep, Do you see him more of a FS or S? imo FS. I also see Pep as having to earn his rookie strips with a lot of tugging penalties.
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
Good. We disagree on Peppers and neither can claim bias. (though that's still open with other OSU fans on here....)
I think Hooker is a beast and you probably like Jake Butt or something
Good. We disagree on Peppers and neither can claim bias. (though that's still open with other OSU fans on here....)
I think Hooker is a beast and you probably like Jake Butt or something
Probably.
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I remember looking at stats from rookie TE's the last 18 years and I'm pretty sure shockey and Gronk are the only two that eclipsed 7-800 yards.
In short - don't expect some offensive changing impact from a rookie at that spot.
It's another reason in my hesitancy of taking OJ that high. There's good value to be had mid rounds where you can find similar production.
FWIW my take on Peppers is that he's a very good player... maybe even very good at multiple positions, in multiple roles, but... is he great at any of them? I mean #12 overall great? That I do not see except possibly, and I've said this before, at running back, a position I will not spend a 12 upon. Otherwise, at his other positions, he's simply not among the "elites" of this draft class which, excepting "Edge", are classes of one or none.
As for Harbaugh's comment... his football smarts may stand out at the college level, but as with all player attributes any gap will be narrowed from August, '17 on. Besides "football smart" is a little like a roommate saying "she (or he) has a great personality."
It's another reason in my hesitancy of taking OJ that high. There's good value to be had mid rounds where you can find similar production.
Even if blocking efficiency is part of the "production" equation?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
FWIW my take on Peppers is that he's a very good player... maybe even very good at multiple positions, in multiple roles, but... is he great at any of them? I mean #12 overall great? That I do not see except possibly, and I've said this before, at running back, a position I will not spend a 12 upon. Otherwise, at his other positions, he's simply not among the "elites" of this draft class which, excepting "Edge", are classes of one or none.
As for Harbaugh's comment... his football smarts may stand out at the college level, but as with all player attributes any gap will be narrowed from August, '17 on. Besides "football smart" is a little like a roommate saying "she (or he) has a great personality."
It's another reason in my hesitancy of taking OJ that high. There's good value to be had mid rounds where you can find similar production.
Even if blocking efficiency is part of the "production" equation?
FWIW my take on Peppers is that he's a very good player... maybe even very good at multiple positions, in multiple roles, but... is he great at any of them? I mean #12 overall great? That I do not see except possibly, and I've said this before, at running back, a position I will not spend a 12 upon. Otherwise, at his other positions, he's simply not among the "elites" of this draft class which, excepting "Edge", are classes of one or none.
Exactly.....as a straight up safety, he would not be a first or rank with these other guys......it's his return skills and versatility that push him up there.....
A bit like Adore Jackson(one of my faves).....but the difference is that I believe Jackson to be a second round CB, with or without those return and offensive skills.....ie: he's a better CB than Peppers is S
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FWIW my take on Peppers is that he's a very good player... maybe even very good at multiple positions, in multiple roles, but... is he great at any of them? I mean #12 overall great? That I do not see except possibly, and I've said this before, at running back, a position I will not spend a 12 upon. Otherwise, at his other positions, he's simply not among the "elites" of this draft class which, excepting "Edge", are classes of one or none.
Exactly.....as a straight up safety, he would not be a first or rank with these other guys......it's his return skills and versatility that push him up there.....
A bit like Adore Jackson(one of my faves).....but the difference is that I believe Jackson to be a second round CB, with or without those return and offensive skills.....ie: he's a better CB than Peppers is S
Exactly.....as a straight up safety, he would not be a first or rank with these other guys......it's his return skills and versatility that push him up there.....
Good build... plus there are other "intangibles" that add to Peppers' value, e.g., the "locker-room presence", "joy of the game" that Woody's mentioned. But... the top half of Round One is a very steep climb from spot to spot. So I do not see these enhancements pushing him into, let alone up, that range.
The bottom half of the first? Not as steep and acceleratingly ever-shallowing the lower you go, so the "add-ons" impact increases.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Exactly.....as a straight up safety, he would not be a first or rank with these other guys......it's his return skills and versatility that push him up there.....
Good build... plus there are other "intangibles" that add to Peppers' value, e.g., the "locker-room presence", "joy of the game" that Woody's mentioned. But... the top half of Round One is a very steep climb from spot to spot. So I do not see these enhancements pushing him into, let alone up, that range.
The bottom half of the first? Not as steep and acceleratingly ever-shallowing the lower you go, so the "add-ons" impact increases.
Good build... plus there are other "intangibles" that add to Peppers' value, e.g., the "locker-room presence", "joy of the game" that Woody's mentioned. But... the top half of Round One is a very steep climb from spot to spot. So I do not see these enhancements pushing him into, let alone up, that range.
The bottom half of the first? Not as steep and acceleratingly ever-shallowing the lower you go, so the "add-ons" impact increases.
Agreed....and in the end, its which tangibles AND intangibles each team favors....
One thing I see about Peppers is they're not even sure where he should play....LB?...SS?....etc.....and that is troubling to me, when we are talking 1st round......the one thing I want is a someone who is VERY good at their position.....otherwise they are a "project" and I prefer my projects to come later in the draft.....no matter what their measurables or intangibles suggest....
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FWIW my take on Peppers is that he's a very good player... maybe even very good at multiple positions, in multiple roles, but... is he great at any of them? I mean #12 overall great? That I do not see except possibly, and I've said this before, at running back, a position I will not spend a 12 upon. Otherwise, at his other positions, he's simply not among the "elites" of this draft class which, excepting "Edge", are classes of one or none.
As for Harbaugh's comment... his football smarts may stand out at the college level, but as with all player attributes any gap will be narrowed from August, '17 on. Besides "football smart" is a little like a roommate saying "she (or he) has a great personality."
It's another reason in my hesitancy of taking OJ that high. There's good value to be had mid rounds where you can find similar production.
Even if blocking efficiency is part of the "production" equation?
FWIW my take on Peppers is that he's a very good player... maybe even very good at multiple positions, in multiple roles, but... is he great at any of them? I mean #12 overall great? That I do not see except possibly, and I've said this before, at running back, a position I will not spend a 12 upon. Otherwise, at his other positions, he's simply not among the "elites" of this draft class which, excepting "Edge", are classes of one or none.
As for Harbaugh's comment... his football smarts may stand out at the college level, but as with all player attributes any gap will be narrowed from August, '17 on. Besides "football smart" is a little like a roommate saying "she (or he) has a great personality."
Even if blocking efficiency is part of the "production" equation?
Good point. OJ lead in that category, didn't he?
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FYI, no one thinks he's going to be an NFL LB.
No that's me. If we were guaranteed the same Jake Butt before injury I'd take Jake over Peppers just to finish off our OL moves..As for Pep, Do you see him more of a FS or S? imo FS. I also see Pep as having to earn his rookie strips with a lot of tugging penalties.
No that's me. If we were guaranteed the same Jake Butt before injury I'd take Jake over Peppers just to finish off our OL moves..As for Pep, Do you see him more of a FS or S? imo FS. I also see Pep as having to earn his rookie strips with a lot of tugging penalties.
From what I've read on Butt's injury, he's ahead of schedule. Should be good to go before the season.
Pepper's college position was more of a SS. That would utilize his work in the box more. Setting edge, blitzing, etc. I definitely think he could be a FS too.
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No that's me. If we were guaranteed the same Jake Butt before injury I'd take Jake over Peppers just to finish off our OL moves..As for Pep, Do you see him more of a FS or S? imo FS. I also see Pep as having to earn his rookie strips with a lot of tugging penalties.
From what I've read on Butt's injury, he's ahead of schedule. Should be good to go before the season.
Pepper's college position was more of a SS. That would utilize his work in the box more. Setting edge, blitzing, etc. I definitely think he could be a FS too.
From what I've read on Butt's injury, he's ahead of schedule. Should be good to go before the season.
Good News..Opens the door away from maybe going Howard at 12 to another needed position maybe. I don't see that much TE performance between the two. Except pick 12 verse top of 3rd at 65. most got Butt rated in the 80's. If no Howard at 12 I'd pull the trigger on Butt. our next pick from 65 is 108. No Butt 4 us
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From what I've read on Butt's injury, he's ahead of schedule. Should be good to go before the season.
Good News..Opens the door away from maybe going Howard at 12 to another needed position maybe. I don't see that much TE performance between the two. Except pick 12 verse top of 3rd at 65. most got Butt rated in the 80's. If no Howard at 12 I'd pull the trigger on Butt. our next pick from 65 is 108. No Butt 4 us
Good News..Opens the door away from maybe going Howard at 12 to another needed position maybe. I don't see that much TE performance between the two. Except pick 12 verse top of 3rd at 65. most got Butt rated in the 80's. If no Howard at 12 I'd pull the trigger on Butt. our next pick from 65 is 108. No Butt 4 us
Not sure Butt will last that long. It depends on what they hear regarding his injury.
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FWIW my take on Peppers is that he's a very good player... maybe even very good at multiple positions, in multiple roles, but... is he great at any of them? I mean #12 overall great? That I do not see except possibly, and I've said this before, at running back, a position I will not spend a 12 upon. Otherwise, at his other positions, he's simply not among the "elites" of this draft class which, excepting "Edge", are classes of one or none.
As for Harbaugh's comment... his football smarts may stand out at the college level, but as with all player attributes any gap will be narrowed from August, '17 on. Besides "football smart" is a little like a roommate saying "she (or he) has a great personality."
Even if blocking efficiency is part of the "production" equation?
Good point. OJ lead in that category, didn't he?
Good point. OJ lead in that category, didn't he?
Can't say I've seen a list, but every account, including my own eyes', that I've seen has OJH as a capable, willing blocker who will only get better.
Good News..Opens the door away from maybe going Howard at 12 to another needed position maybe. I don't see that much TE performance between the two. Except pick 12 verse top of 3rd at 65. most got Butt rated in the 80's. If no Howard at 12 I'd pull the trigger on Butt. our next pick from 65 is 108. No Butt 4 us
Agree... OJH is not atop my wish list at 12, but he's on it.
I recently realized, or at least verbalized, that there has been a third prong in my tie-breaking for prospect clusters along with need and positional importance. It's the talent gap to the next options... the consolation prizes.
A healing Butt with the promise of returning to form closes my perceived TE gap.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Good point. OJ lead in that category, didn't he?
Can't say I've seen a list, but every account, including my own eyes', that I've seen has OJH as a capable, willing blocker who will only get better.
Good News..Opens the door away from maybe going Howard at 12 to another needed position maybe. I don't see that much TE performance between the two. Except pick 12 verse top of 3rd at 65. most got Butt rated in the 80's. If no Howard at 12 I'd pull the trigger on Butt. our next pick from 65 is 108. No Butt 4 us
Agree... OJH is not atop my wish list at 12, but he's on it.
I recently realized, or at least verbalized, that there has been a third prong in my tie-breaking for prospect clusters along with need and positional importance. It's the talent gap to the next options... the consolation prizes.
A healing Butt with the promise of returning to form closes my perceived TE gap.
I recently realized, or at least verbalized, that there has been a third prong in my tie-breaking for prospect clusters along with need and positional importance. It's the talent gap to the next options... the consolation prizes.
A healing Butt with the promise of returning to form closes my perceived TE gap.
Under the assumption that Butt will be back to 100% after his injury (which reports seem to indicate), he'd be a very good TE. Leader for Michigan that could have left after his Jr year and been a borderline 1st rd pick, but decided to come back. Needs to continue to work on his blocking. Big target in the passing game with great hands though.
Plus, his last name is Butt. The perfect name to have on a Browns jersey.
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FWIW my take on Peppers is that he's a very good player... maybe even very good at multiple positions, in multiple roles, but... is he great at any of them? I mean #12 overall great? That I do not see except possibly, and I've said this before, at running back, a position I will not spend a 12 upon. Otherwise, at his other positions, he's simply not among the "elites" of this draft class which, excepting "Edge", are classes of one or none.
As for Harbaugh's comment... his football smarts may stand out at the college level, but as with all player attributes any gap will be narrowed from August, '17 on. Besides "football smart" is a little like a roommate saying "she (or he) has a great personality."
It's another reason in my hesitancy of taking OJ that high. There's good value to be had mid rounds where you can find similar production.
Even if blocking efficiency is part of the "production" equation?
FWIW my take on Peppers is that he's a very good player... maybe even very good at multiple positions, in multiple roles, but... is he great at any of them? I mean #12 overall great? That I do not see except possibly, and I've said this before, at running back, a position I will not spend a 12 upon. Otherwise, at his other positions, he's simply not among the "elites" of this draft class which, excepting "Edge", are classes of one or none.
As for Harbaugh's comment... his football smarts may stand out at the college level, but as with all player attributes any gap will be narrowed from August, '17 on. Besides "football smart" is a little like a roommate saying "she (or he) has a great personality."
He doesn't have a ton of film at the position he'll play in the NFL, so there is some leap of faith you're taking there. It comes down to whether or not you think he can do it. Based on everything he did for Michigan, everything that was thrown at him and he excelled at, his athleticism and how he played, I think he can become a great player at more of a pure safety position.
The guy played at and excelled at over a dozen positions. From the time he arrived on campus coaches raved about his ability to pick things up and his ability to learn on the fly. His football intelligence is well documented. This adds to the belief he'd be able to pick up more of a pure S position in the NFL. He has the athleticism, and the mental side of it should be easy enough.
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Good build... plus there are other "intangibles" that add to Peppers' value, e.g., the "locker-room presence", "joy of the game" that Woody's mentioned. But... the top half of Round One is a very steep climb from spot to spot. So I do not see these enhancements pushing him into, let alone up, that range.
The bottom half of the first? Not as steep and acceleratingly ever-shallowing the lower you go, so the "add-ons" impact increases.
Agreed....and in the end, its which tangibles AND intangibles each team favors....
One thing I see about Peppers is they're not even sure where he should play....LB?...SS?....etc.....and that is troubling to me, when we are talking 1st round......the one thing I want is a someone who is VERY good at their position.....otherwise they are a "project" and I prefer my projects to come later in the draft.....no matter what their measurables or intangibles suggest....
Agreed....and in the end, its which tangibles AND intangibles each team favors....
One thing I see about Peppers is they're not even sure where he should play....LB?...SS?....etc.....and that is troubling to me, when we are talking 1st round......the one thing I want is a someone who is VERY good at their position.....otherwise they are a "project" and I prefer my projects to come later in the draft.....no matter what their measurables or intangibles suggest....
"They" aren't unsure of where Peppers should play. He said 30 of 32 teams want him to be a Safety. 1 said LB, 1 said RB.
Not knowing where someone should play is a poor reason lower their draft stock, IMO. I would hope our defensive coaching staff isn't scared / intimidated / or too stupid to pass on a great prospect because it might take a little more work / creativity on their end to put him in his best spot. Hell, you could be completely basic and just throw him at SS and he'd do well, but if we could be creative with him the results would be even better.
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