Schefter: Browns still split between taking Garrett and Trubisky with #1 pick

LondonBrown

@the-gipper said:
Actually, IMO, despite only winning 1 game last year, the Browns are in better shape than the Jets.

And I would agree with that. I don't see Bowles lasting much longer, I thought he may have gone this off season as part of the rebuild.

Mr. Make-Believe

@tour2ma said:
EDIT: Holy shit... PFF has Adams falling to us at 12? Color me ecstatic...

This happens and the Browns take Garret first, the Browns walk away with the two best players in this draft.

hoorta

@roycerolls said:
Weeden didn't make progressions or read defenses, he simply played catch with the best receiver in the country. If my memory serves me, the big 12 didn't have a single top 80 defense that year while the big ten had 7 in the top 40, which was part of my reasoning for taking either Wilson or Cousins late as opposed to reaching for Weeden or Tannehill. 2012 was they year to draft 1 overall.

I'll just ditto what you said about Wheezy for Tour- besides being near geriatric. Quinn? Not accurate. Notre Dame curse.

Tour2ma

@roycerolls said:
Weeden didn't make progressions or read defenses, he simply played catch with the best receiver in the country. If my memory serves me, the big 12 didn't have a single top 80 defense that year while the big ten had 7 in the top 40, which was part of my reasoning for taking either Wilson or Cousins late as opposed to reaching for Weeden or Tannehill. 2012 was they year to draft 1 overall.

Agree on the D -reading, but not sure about the progressions bit.

@the-gipper said:
And you thought I was the engineer when I was only the conductor.

Trust me... I'd never think you were an Engineer... a lawyer, yes, but never an Engineer.

I know because I are an engineer...

@hoorta said:
I'll just ditto what you said about Wheezy for Tour- besides being near geriatric. Quinn? Not accurate. Notre Dame curse.

Well that's not fair... Trubs hasn't shown he can read a D either...

BTW... the correct answer for Wheezy was "slow release".

hoorta

@the-gipper said:

I am on board with that. Get both of them. Trade up. Though, I don't know about the Jets and 49ers. Jets, it has been reported, are in line to want a QB, and MT is top of their list. That is why in another thread I talked about moving up from 12 to 5 with the Tits. Though...I have seen some reports that both the Niners and Bears may still be in the QB market, even with recent signings.

Moving from 12 to 2 with SF? A. That presumes that SF doesn't want a QB there, and B....WTF would it take to do that? A lot I suspect.

I opined that Gip in a previous thread. Yikes, and here- according to the JJ chart, is what it would take for the Browns to jump up to #2 overall. A ton is right. Our #12 & #52 this year, and our first round and one of the seconds in 2018. Shades of the Goff\ Wentz trade ups last year. Doable? Certainly. Likely? About a million to one against.

Much less costly for the Jets to make the jump. I'll disagree with PFF though the 49ers would just take their #6 and a second rounder.

Annndddd.... if Mitch gets to #5, I have the Titans on speed dial. The draft value chart says just our #52 gets it done to move there. Of course, the Jets would again be in a better position, as the Titans would only be moving down one spot.

Tour2ma

LOL... Meanwhile back at "Point / Counterpoint"... Gip, you ignorant slut...

The Browns would be insane to take Mitchell Trubisky over Myles Garrett at No. 1

Cameron DaSilva @camdasilva Apr 12, 2017 at 1:25p ET

For more than a month, it seemed like Myles Garrett was a lock to go first overall. At the NFL Combine, he performed like an athletic freak, and then improved on those numbers at his pro day.

Everything was lining up for him to be the unquestioned No. 1 pick, but things may be changing. Multiple reports surfaced on Wednesday suggesting the Cleveland Browns are torn on what to do with the top pick. No, this is not a joke. The Browns are actually considering passing on a blue-chip defensive end in favor of, wait for it, a quarterback.

This isn’t the first time the Browns have been linked to a player besides Garrett, either. Earlier this week, it was reported that Leonard Fournette was in consideration for the top overall pick. A running back, in today’s NFL, with the first pick in the draft.

However, if Cleveland were to actually pass on Garrett for Mitchell Trubisky, it would likely go down as one of the worst selections in NFL history. It’s not about how bad Trubisky is – he could turn out to be a nice quarterback. It’s about Garrett being head-and-shoulders above every other player in this class.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/cleveland-browns-mitchell-trubisky-myles-garrett-nfl-draft-first-pick-overall-041217

gumby73

@texasag1969 said:

@londonbrown said:
Bowles .

Bowles? After reading this, now I know why Tunsil wore a mask,with dope even with his in-laws ..Tell'em again Von Miller. Schefter's only pad experience comes with a #2 Pencil

@the-gipper said:

All aboard?

now figure a way above Tennessee to go get Adams or Hooker.Then am blowing the Amtrak whistle back home

hoorta

@tour2ma said:

Agree on the D -reading, but not sure about the progressions bit.

Trust me... I'd never think you were an Engineer... a lawyer, yes, but never an Engineer.

I know because I are an engineer...

Well that's not fair... Trubs hasn't shown he can read a D either...

BTW... the correct answer for Wheezy was "slow release".

OK, I'll claim Zen enlightenment on all of the three Tour. None of 'em passed my eye test, though Wee-done probably came closest. I called "bum" before we drafted any of them. Same way I feel about Mitch- in an opposite way.....

BTW, I'm not necessarily saying take Mitch over Garrett either. Just greedy, and I want both of them on the Browns. Reluctantly, if it's one or the other, I take Garrett. And should Myles bust, it will be a bust of historic proportions, above the level of Jamarcus Russell or Ki-Jana Carter. SO like the Browns.

Tour2ma

Two more... and I did not doctor the title...

The Browns Can't Possibly Fuck This Up...Right?

http://deadspin.com/the-browns-cant-possibly-fuck-this-up-right-1794264774

and one more... albeit a little less graphic...

NFL Draft: Browns need to stick with Myles Garrett at No. 1

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nfl-draft-browns-rumors-picks-mock-projection-myles-garrett-trubisky-preview-2017/w3krm29oqdvbzhihnrvjgfh7

calfoxwc

If the Browns go with Trubisky at one, a lot of us might be laughing ourselves into the floor, but...

I will know they made the right decision. It's easier to find pass rush help later, than to find a starting

qb later.

But I think they will take Garrett, even though he says he doesn't want to play in the NFL a long time.....

RoyceRolls

The Browns have drafted 6 1st round busts in the past five years, what's one more?

blitzz2

MG and JA, Hell, how can you go wrong? Could possibly get Webb or Mahones at top of 2nd? or just keep going with BPA and wait till next year on a QB.

calfoxwc

Garrett is not Gerard Warren...

draft him at #1. Can't see the Browns staying at #1 and doing anything else.

Not for one second.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/02/cleveland_browns_flop_gerard_w.html

Orion

In this thread I've seen reports of us being linked to a pass rusher, a QB and a RB with the #1 pick.

.....sounds exactly like a team trying entice a team that covets one of those players to pick up the phone and call.

---

The #1 overall pick - In order for a player that is NOT a QB to be the 1st player chosen he has to be WAAaaaay better than any of the QB's.

If you don't have a good QB then you're going to have opponents fans in your stadium towards the end of seasons. And there ain't a single pass rusher in the entire draft that will be able to throw TD passes for you.

The Quarterback is ESSENTIAL. Everything else is a luxury.

So, the vast majority of the 'experts' seem to think that the pass rusher is just too much better than any of the QB's for ANY team to pass up. Maybe so. But this thread's existence is proof of just how valuable the QB position is. Even in a draft where the defensive player is hands down the best player in the draft and there isn't a QB that comes Close to him..........the QB STILL enters into the thinking.

Frenchie

I don't believe anything at this time of the year (related to the NFL Draft). I heard a radio talk-show discuss rumors of trading down with the Broncos for two hours until they found out that the rumor was trading-up with the Broncos.

One thing I do know is that Sashi is in charge and he is not stupid. There are 4 QB's in this draft and while they all have potential, none are ready, and the +\- are about even. I think they take a premier player like Garrett, at #1, then see how the board plays out at 12. If someone they like starts to fall, they may move up. If not, they will compare key players and the remaining QB's at 12. If someone like Howard is there, they take him. Then try to work back into the first round to take their QB. If Key players are gone at 12, they will take the QB at 12 and stick to their two second rounders.

hoorta

@frenchie said:

I don't believe anything at this time of the year (related to the NFL Draft). I heard a radio talk-show discuss rumors of trading down with the Broncos for two hours until they found out that the rumor was trading-up with the Broncos.

One thing I do know is that Sashi is in charge and he is not stupid. There are 4 QB's in this draft and while they all have potential, none are ready, and the +\- are about even. I think they take a premier player like Garrett, at #1, then see how the board plays out at 12. If someone they like starts to fall, they may move up. If not, they will compare key players and the remaining QB's at 12. If someone like Howard is there, they take him. Then try to work back into the first round to take their QB. If Key players are gone at 12, they will take the QB at 12 and stick to their two second rounders.

I liked your line of thinking fine, until- you lost me trading back up into the first round. Say to #22 again? LOL. I have a feeling of more Bad Karma about that one. MHO? If we don't take or trade up to get Mitch- it's pass totally on a QB and roll with Kessler and the Ostrich behind a vastly improved o-line. Not saying you can't get lucky taking a QB in the second round like the Raiders did with Carr most recently- but you had better be 100% certain the guy has franchise potential before you waste a high pick on a second or third tier guy. I'm just not seeing it in Watson, Kizer, or Webb. If Quarterback Whisperer Hue thinks he can quickly fix Mahomes' horrible mechanics, he should be fired. Give me a defender like Budda Baker at the top of the second instead.

TexasAg1969

@frenchie said:
One thing I do know is that Sashi is in charge and he is not stupid. There are 4 QB's in this draft and while they all have potential, none are ready, and the +\- are about even. I think they take a premier player like Garrett, at #1, then see how the board plays out at 12. If someone they like starts to fall, they may move up. If not, they will compare key players and the remaining QB's at 12. If someone like Howard is there, they take him. Then try to work back into the first round to take their QB. If Key players are gone at 12, they will take the QB at 12 and stick to their two second rounders.

So you're sure that Sushi won't go to the chainsaw shed (where he found 4 wrs + a 5th rd QB) again? Color me dubious. 🥷

jiggins7919

Sashi being in control is what scares me. Not because he's stupid, but because he's too SMART. I'm worried that he'll try to PROVE that he's the smartest person in the room and not just do what the universe thinks we should do. I HATE getting worked up about things that haven't happened yet, and I know as much as anyone that this is definitely the NFL "silly season". That being said, don't we have a track record of making deals? Haven't we traded virtually EVERY one of our first round picks at LEAST once? This could be much to do about nothing, and we could take Myles and everyone (that I know anyways) will take a collective sigh of relief. But I certainly don't put it past our "brain trust" to try and prove their intelligence and completely screw this situation up. Here's an anecdote from an article I read this morning:

"If reports are true and the Browns are worried about heading into another season without a franchise quarterback, this is the time for ownership to step in. This might be the most encouraging year-and-a-half stretch in recent franchise history and nothing bottoms out momentum like a team whiffing on a quarterback with a premium pick."

Think about that statement for a second. "This might be the most encouraging year-and-a-half stretch in recent franchise history." We all realize that doesn't mean MUCH in Cleveland, but still. If we truly ARE making progress, NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING completely deflates an entire team, front office, and coaching staff like whiffing on an early QB pick. It can mean certain doom....for everyone. Conversely, it can also mean the opposite, but there aren't many people who feel "that QB" is available in this draft, at least not in year one.

Take the physical specimen who has zero character concerns and actually WANTS to come to Cleveland. This isn't some malcontent that is bitching about playing for a crappy city, and that video he shot about wanting to play for the Cowboys doesn't count. He grew up in Texas and made a joke about playing for his home team. Trubisky said the same damn thing, and you don't heard San Fran or Chicago making a big deal out of it. There's no doubt that Garrett still has much to learn, and I don't expect him to jump out of the gate and perform like Bosa did right away. Bosa had a near historic season, and that would be too much pressure for anyone, even the #1 pick. I'd be happy if Garrett remained healthy and finished the season with 8 sacks or something close to it. If Garrett hits that number, I can guarantee that Ogbah's stats will take a giant leap forward as well.

Tour2ma

@calfoxwc said:
If the Browns go with Trubisky at one, a lot of us might be laughing ourselves into the floor, but... I will know hope they made the right decision.

FIFY... or me...

@orion said:
In this thread I've seen reports of us being linked to a pass rusher, a QB and a RB with the #1 pick......sounds exactly like a team trying entice a team that covets one of those players to pick up the phone and call.

The #1 overall pick - In order for a player that is NOT a QB to be the 1st player chosen he has to be WAAaaaay better than any of the QB's.

Since there is absolutely no reason to obfuscate the #1 overall, if you know who you want, I cannot disagree with you. That said... on NFL Insiders and Live yesterday, Shefter, himself, said that this is exactly what you'd expect from a proper due diligence process by the team holding the #1 overall. To do any less, to leave any option unexplored would be irresponsible.
While I disagree a non-QB "has to be WAAaaaay better than any of the QB's", I actually I think you are arguing "every QB" because you aren't sure who is the best one. Guess what? Neither do I and that's just based upon the tape I've seen to gauge their talent; then I still have to assign a probability of their successful transition to the NFL. One simply does not jump out. Two separate themselves from the pack, but neither from each other.

Two closing thoughts:

I find it difficult to take comfort from anything Shefter says... especially since he created the discomfort, but at the end of his segment on both shows he said that in the end he expected the Browns to take Garrett at #1.
A non-QB who is way better at his position than any of the QBs in this draft are at their position is exactly the situation we have before us.

jiggins7919

Your post makes a lot of sense and I agree with it. Picking a QB #1 doesn't scare me. What DOES scare me is our team trading out of the #1 position. Our insatiable need to acquire draft picks and inability to just take the best effing player available. I can understand exploring every option, but I also don't want to over think this. Let me give you an example of the possible temptation we're facing:

The Chicago Bears are in love with Myles Garrett, and they feel he's just what the team needs to get down and dirty in the NFC. They'll do anything to get him. Even though they are only jumping up from 3 to 1, they are offering their 2018 1st rounder and a 4th rounder. If you're the Browns, you're only falling two positions, and you're getting yet ANOTHER high 2018 draft pick. Perhaps VERY high, right? At #3, the Browns could still get Solomon Thomas or Safety Jamal Adams, AND have a potential top ten extra pick in 2018...in addition to the three 2nd rounders we already have. With the 2018 QB class potentially being MUCH better than this year's...do we pull the trigger?

I haven't run the numbers, and I don't know if that even makes sense...I'm just providing food for thought. Picking a QB #1 isn't going to happen, but us trading down a bit is a VERY real possibility.