Corey Coleman hurt again (don't draft 185 pound WRs in the 1st round)
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or making defenders miss and getting extra yards. I'm sure it happened a few times, but do YOU guys remember seeing it? That was one of the things I was most excited about regarding Coleman, and I really thought he'd be able to catch a few short passes and turning some of them into medium or even occasional large gains, but I don't remember seeing that AT ALL. Am I crazy? Does anybody else remember this?
Youtube Cory at Baylor..That's pretty much all Baylor ran for Cory with lesser quality defenders/tacklers imo..2 things I also noticed at Baltimore game last season #1. yes he got open but never saw the ball.#2.Baylor/Balt./Cinn. were the only plastic turf Cory has seen..Cory on tape or in person just seems quicker playing on his college turf than grass..strange but maybe true..
Youtube Cory at Baylor..That's pretty much all Baylor ran for Cory with lesser quality defenders/tacklers imo..2 things I also noticed at Baltimore game last season #1. yes he got open but never saw the ball.#2.Baylor/Balt./Cinn. were the only plastic turf Cory has seen..Cory on tape or in person just seems quicker playing on his college turf than grass..strange but maybe true..
Most everyone is faster on turf than grass.
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The broken hand really screwed him up, and I realize that. For arguments sake, if we extrapolated Coleman's numbers over 16 games, he would've had a very successful ROOKIE campaign. Without doing the math, I'm guessing around 625 yards and 5 TD's. Definitely not bad, but again, has to be healthy. The more worrisome aspect to his game was what I previously addressed, and that's his inability to do ANYTHING after the catch. Now, some of that maybe Hue, and some of that maybe the QB's, but the kid didn't have ANY electric catch and runs. None that I can think of, and that's a disappointment.
I seriously don't think we'll go after Maclin, but it'd be very nice. I keep reminding myself that we can't plug every hole in one offseason, but what burns me up is we drafted Coleman so early, and we were hoping that hole was somewhat plugged already. Add in the fact that we developed Pryor and he LEFT, and it feels like we did everything we could to create a solid position group only to be left with something...not good on paper. (never mind that we drafted FOUR rookie WR's last year, and I don't love any of them as of now)
This brings me back to cutting Barnidge. Why in the world would we do that? He wasn't THAT expensive, and he was reliable. Njoku has a chance to be special, but I'm betting it takes at least a year. It wouldn't surprise me to see Devalve have better numbers if he stays healthy. I really liked what I saw out of that guy.
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And just as expected, Corey Coleman gets hurt again. We've all heard about the nagging hamstring, but now he has a "middle body" injury to pair with that.
This is exactly why you don't take tiny WRs in Round 1. You can always find quality slots late, and given how brittle they can be (especially Coleman) it doesn't make sense to invest premium assets in players like that.
Remember how the 2016 draft unfolded? Keep it in mind. I feel like this is going to sting as we head into this year:
15th overall: Corey Coleman
16th overall: Taylor Decker
17th overall: Keanu Neal
18th overall: Ryan Kelly
Keanu Neal and Ryan Kelly are already premium players at their positions, and Taylor Decker had a really solid rookie season as well. Will be interesting to see what happens, but even if we had picked Taylor Decker and then drafted a WR with the pick we used on Shon Coleman (Braxton Miller and Malcolm Mitchell were still available there), we are sitting pretty.
Or we take Keanu Neal and then instead of Jabrill Peppers this year, we trade down a few picks and take Marcus Williams to fill the FS void. Then we sign Stevie Johnson or Victor Cruz to compete in the slot with Rashard Higgins. But alas.
And just as expected, Corey Coleman gets hurt again. We've all heard about the nagging hamstring, but now he has a "middle body" injury to pair with that.
This is exactly why you don't take tiny WRs in Round 1. You can always find quality slots late, and given how brittle they can be (especially Coleman) it doesn't make sense to invest premium assets in players like that.
Remember how the 2016 draft unfolded? Keep it in mind. I feel like this is going to sting as we head into this year:
15th overall: Corey Coleman
16th overall: Taylor Decker
17th overall: Keanu Neal
18th overall: Ryan Kelly
Keanu Neal and Ryan Kelly are already premium players at their positions, and Taylor Decker had a really solid rookie season as well. Will be interesting to see what happens, but even if we had picked Taylor Decker and then drafted a WR with the pick we used on Shon Coleman (Braxton Miller and Malcolm Mitchell were still available there), we are sitting pretty.
Or we take Keanu Neal and then instead of Jabrill Peppers this year, we trade down a few picks and take Marcus Williams to fill the FS void. Then we sign Stevie Johnson or Victor Cruz to compete in the slot with Rashard Higgins. But alas.
I sincerely hope the irony isn't lost on you that Taylor Decker is seriously hurt and may miss the entire season. By your same logic I guess we shouldn't draft big lineman in the first round either?
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If Aaron Decker can be signed at a good price, can anybody think of a reason why he wouldn't be a good fit for us? I don't see us getting Maclin, but maybe Decker is a solid contender to help stock up a weak position group. Especially now that we all know Coleman hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy, I think we almost HAVE to add a veteran of some caliber.
We added strength and skill to the OL, we've got some good running backs (in my opinion), and although we cut Barnidge, I still like our TE's somewhat because of Seth Devalve and our rookie. What we NEED to do is add some WR firepower to help our QB's. I could be mistaken, but I believe Decker is a solid route runner who has good hands. THAT'S what we need, right? We need to do everything in our power to help our QB's because that's where we're the weakest.
Hue Jackson made it seem like if it was the regular season, he would have Coleman out there. If that's true, I think it would be smart to have Coleman practice in minicamp or even limited practice to finish OTA's. Show the world that Coleman really is "ok", and that's he isn't a glass player. I'm not saying to run him full speed, but have him out there doing SOMETHING.
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If Aaron Decker can be signed at a good price, can anybody think of a reason why he wouldn't be a good fit for us? I don't see us getting Maclin, but maybe Decker is a solid contender to help stock up a weak position group. Especially now that we all know Coleman hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy, I think we almost HAVE to add a veteran of some caliber.
We added strength and skill to the OL, we've got some good running backs (in my opinion), and although we cut Barnidge, I still like our TE's somewhat because of Seth Devalve and our rookie. What we NEED to do is add some WR firepower to help our QB's. I could be mistaken, but I believe Decker is a solid route runner who has good hands. THAT'S what we need, right? We need to do everything in our power to help our QB's because that's where we're the weakest.
Hue Jackson made it seem like if it was the regular season, he would have Coleman out there. If that's true, I think it would be smart to have Coleman practice in minicamp or even limited practice to finish OTA's. Show the world that Coleman really is "ok", and that's he isn't a glass player. I'm not saying to run him full speed, but have him out there doing SOMETHING.
If Aaron Decker can be signed at a good price, can anybody think of a reason why he wouldn't be a good fit for us? I don't see us getting Maclin, but maybe Decker is a solid contender to help stock up a weak position group. Especially now that we all know Coleman hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy, I think we almost HAVE to add a veteran of some caliber.
We added strength and skill to the OL, we've got some good running backs (in my opinion), and although we cut Barnidge, I still like our TE's somewhat because of Seth Devalve and our rookie. What we NEED to do is add some WR firepower to help our QB's. I could be mistaken, but I believe Decker is a solid route runner who has good hands. THAT'S what we need, right? We need to do everything in our power to help our QB's because that's where we're the weakest.
Hue Jackson made it seem like if it was the regular season, he would have Coleman out there. If that's true, I think it would be smart to have Coleman practice in minicamp or even limited practice to finish OTA's. Show the world that Coleman really is "ok", and that's he isn't a glass player. I'm not saying to run him full speed, but have him out there doing SOMETHING.
The biggest argument against adding ANY "veteran" player is that they are taking reps away from young guys with "potential". This reasoning is exactly why we let Barnidge go and will certainly let others go as well.
It's a tough argument to have because there's merits to both sides. I mean think of a dude like Brian Hartline whom we brought in there for a couple of years. What did he do to help move the organization forward other than take reps from other dudes (potentially)? Now, with that being said I certainly don't look at any of the dudes outside of Coleman and go "maybe he's the dude". But still, on a rebuilding team it's a conversation to have and if they feel that way (which I don't), you should nearly every time defer to playing the younger guys.
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If Aaron Decker can be signed at a good price, can anybody think of a reason why he wouldn't be a good fit for us? I don't see us getting Maclin, but maybe Decker is a solid contender to help stock up a weak position group. Especially now that we all know Coleman hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy, I think we almost HAVE to add a veteran of some caliber.
We added strength and skill to the OL, we've got some good running backs (in my opinion), and although we cut Barnidge, I still like our TE's somewhat because of Seth Devalve and our rookie. What we NEED to do is add some WR firepower to help our QB's. I could be mistaken, but I believe Decker is a solid route runner who has good hands. THAT'S what we need, right? We need to do everything in our power to help our QB's because that's where we're the weakest.
Hue Jackson made it seem like if it was the regular season, he would have Coleman out there. If that's true, I think it would be smart to have Coleman practice in minicamp or even limited practice to finish OTA's. Show the world that Coleman really is "ok", and that's he isn't a glass player. I'm not saying to run him full speed, but have him out there doing SOMETHING.
The biggest argument against adding ANY "veteran" player is that they are taking reps away from young guys with "potential". This reasoning is exactly why we let Barnidge go and will certainly let others go as well.
It's a tough argument to have because there's merits to both sides. I mean think of a dude like Brian Hartline whom we brought in there for a couple of years. What did he do to help move the organization forward other than take reps from other dudes (potentially)? Now, with that being said I certainly don't look at any of the dudes outside of Coleman and go "maybe he's the dude". But still, on a rebuilding team it's a conversation to have and if they feel that way (which I don't), you should nearly every time defer to playing the younger guys.
The biggest argument against adding ANY "veteran" player is that they are taking reps away from young guys with "potential". This reasoning is exactly why we let Barnidge go and will certainly let others go as well.
Bingo...
Have to add (again) that 2017 is not the year we are targeting to be competitive... We are not yet in the "business" of adding final piece(s) to make a last push to anything. That mode is at least one year, of more likely two years away. Then and only then might we add a Maclin or a Decker, be he Aaron or Eric.
2017 will be about continued evaluation of what we have and what we need with a side of learning how to win.
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If Aaron Decker can be signed at a good price, can anybody think of a reason why he wouldn't be a good fit for us? I don't see us getting Maclin, but maybe Decker is a solid contender to help stock up a weak position group. Especially now that we all know Coleman hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy, I think we almost HAVE to add a veteran of some caliber.
We added strength and skill to the OL, we've got some good running backs (in my opinion), and although we cut Barnidge, I still like our TE's somewhat because of Seth Devalve and our rookie. What we NEED to do is add some WR firepower to help our QB's. I could be mistaken, but I believe Decker is a solid route runner who has good hands. THAT'S what we need, right? We need to do everything in our power to help our QB's because that's where we're the weakest.
Hue Jackson made it seem like if it was the regular season, he would have Coleman out there. If that's true, I think it would be smart to have Coleman practice in minicamp or even limited practice to finish OTA's. Show the world that Coleman really is "ok", and that's he isn't a glass player. I'm not saying to run him full speed, but have him out there doing SOMETHING.
The biggest argument against adding ANY "veteran" player is that they are taking reps away from young guys with "potential". This reasoning is exactly why we let Barnidge go and will certainly let others go as well.
It's a tough argument to have because there's merits to both sides. I mean think of a dude like Brian Hartline whom we brought in there for a couple of years. What did he do to help move the organization forward other than take reps from other dudes (potentially)? Now, with that being said I certainly don't look at any of the dudes outside of Coleman and go "maybe he's the dude". But still, on a rebuilding team it's a conversation to have and if they feel that way (which I don't), you should nearly every time defer to playing the younger guys.
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Another guy we'll probably let go who definitely has at least a couple good-to-great years left: DT/DE Desmond Bryant. High salary, questionable fit, Brantley and Meder both better today at the role Brantley will be asked to perform.
Trading him for a pick would be great.. Perhaps they'll keep him as a backup to both DT and DE? Could be, but at that salary I can't see happiness at the brain table.
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No need to stick the pitch-folk in Des.Bryant at all yet..Yes he turned 31 in Dec. but He's under contract this season.Desmond's,other body parts had a full year off also. Most importantly,imo Des is are most proven 4th DLman on roster. Feel lucky were not paying Des. Terrell Suggs money. Who at age 34 tore his Achilles in 15 than torn Bicep in 16. Meder,Cooper,Brantley,Stample,Ogunjobi & Holmes all bring something we have not brought to our D Front in years..Competition..Imo, Gregg Williams must raise the late game DL stamina of all our sub packages that falls on their face late in games.If Des Bryant can stay healthy thru camp let's not get Sheard stupid again..
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LMAO...yeah, guys that can play...like whom? Fatass OL that don't move the needle? A flash in the pan FS? How about the smurf receivers? I'm so sure Gabriel would've had the same production without an OL, QB, or star receiver that he benefits from in ATL.
Oh shit...I forgot Kruger, witner, and dansby...so who those guys playing with now?
Y'all remind me of polian...strict football guys that are insulted by the new browns cause ya ain't got the horsepower to comprehend what's going on.
Editt to add: furthermore, keep klinging onto the 2016 off-season to grind your axe, cause it's basically a carbon fucking copy of this off-season, right? Whatcha gonna bitch about? Pryor?
Lame...such a waste of my time.
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@ghoolie said:
They had players. Gordon,
You stayed up until after midnight to post that garbage?
Yeah, Gordon has been really helpful here since 2013. He's appeared in 5 games, scored 0 TDs and forgot the plays in half his reps. It's 2017 and he's still suspended. You got any more wisdom for us Oblivious Maximus?
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@ghoolie said:
Youth is not a solution to building anything. It is a possible solution for finding players that can contribute. Known veterans are not a solution to anything, but a possible solution for finding players that can contribute.
People love to throw out euphemisms for THE ONE THINGS THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE......................but really the only thing that is important is making plays. A touchdown is not scored according to the age of the person crossing the goal line. A touchdown is a touchdown.
Browns fans are largely ignorant. They are ignorant about life, and ignorant about football. So many opinions here are based on what the sports media tells people to think. Save my over-the-top oft tongue-in-cheek flames to illustrate my points, not one fan here can argue my statement that going into 2017, the Browns have the least amount of proven playmakers of all 32 teams.
Now, one can argue about what they think will be....who they believe will step up, pan out, and finally gel, but reality is that these things are no more than bets on a Roulette wheel. Every team has the same odds of having diamonds in the rough step up and contribute. However, if you look at the successful teams, the bulk of the playmaking is done by older veterans who have been contributing consistently. Never, have I witnessed a team comprised heavily of youth and inexperience amount to jack shit.
The Browns haven't amassed assets, they have avoided assets and instead amassed more spins on the Roulette wheel.
Whatever the secrets are to building a successful team, getting rid of guys who can make plays for ones that you hope make plays, isn't just idiotic, it is self destructive.
The 2017 Browns will be the worst Browns franchise ever. hey will be worse than the 2016 vesrion.
This board is a forum for people to express their opinions, and I respect yours. However, I completely disagree with it. Last year's team was virtually torn down to the nub, and we expunged many of our older players in favor of youth and affordability. We did that to acquire future assets and position ourselves to add a substantial amount of potential talent in 2017, which many agree, we executed. Not only that, but we have also positioned ourselves to do this AGAIN next year, which is no small miracle. Our front office said they'd be fools to think they can select talent THAT much better than anyone else, and the best way to increase their odds of locating valuable assets is to greatly increase the "number of swings they get at the plate." We did that for 2017, and we have done it again in 2018.
The only player we lost of consequence was Terrell Pryor, and that wasn't our fault at all. We added serious talent on the offensive line, our other lineman are getting healthy, and perhaps most importantly, we let Ray Horton go and added Gregg Williams. Williams has a Super Bowl ring and was a coach that other teams actually wanted. When was the last time we could say THAT? So knowing all of this, how could our team actually be worse than last year? Our QB situation isn't much better, if better at all, but it's also hard to say it's worse. We added the #1 talent in the draft, our defensive line has skill and depth, and our two starting linebackers are seriously talented. Where are we worse as a position group?
If you're angry about the state of the franchise, nobody could really blame you. I think our team could actually go 4-12 and it would be a FUN year. It would be fun because we'd get to see our young players develop. Maybe we see one of our QB's actually take hold of the offense and really establish himself as a starter in this league. I very much believe we'll be noticeably better at pressuring the QB, and I also believe our defense will be much better overall which will allow us to run the ball later in more games. Listen, I'm not saying we're going to be "good" this year, but I do believe we can have a fun season and have a losing record. And what's more important is we can add further assets in 2018 and continue to build our team from the ground up. For the first time in a LONG time, I can say I see the team's process, and I agree with it. It actually looks like we have a plan.
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@ghoolie said:
Youth is not a solution to building anything. It is a possible solution for finding players that can contribute. Known veterans are not a solution to anything, but a possible solution for finding players that can contribute.
People love to throw out euphemisms for THE ONE THINGS THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE......................but really the only thing that is important is making plays. A touchdown is not scored according to the age of the person crossing the goal line. A touchdown is a touchdown.
Browns fans are largely ignorant. They are ignorant about life, and ignorant about football. So many opinions here are based on what the sports media tells people to think. Save my over-the-top oft tongue-in-cheek flames to illustrate my points, not one fan here can argue my statement that going into 2017, the Browns have the least amount of proven playmakers of all 32 teams.
Now, one can argue about what they think will be....who they believe will step up, pan out, and finally gel, but reality is that these things are no more than bets on a Roulette wheel. Every team has the same odds of having diamonds in the rough step up and contribute. However, if you look at the successful teams, the bulk of the playmaking is done by older veterans who have been contributing consistently. Never, have I witnessed a team comprised heavily of youth and inexperience amount to jack shit.
The Browns haven't amassed assets, they have avoided assets and instead amassed more spins on the Roulette wheel.
Whatever the secrets are to building a successful team, getting rid of guys who can make plays for ones that you hope make plays, isn't just idiotic, it is self destructive.
The 2017 Browns will be the worst Browns franchise ever. hey will be worse than the 2016 vesrion.
This board is a forum for people to express their opinions, and I respect yours. However, I completely disagree with it. Last year's team was virtually torn down to the nub, and we expunged many of our older players in favor of youth and affordability. We did that to acquire future assets and position ourselves to add a substantial amount of potential talent in 2017, which many agree, we executed. Not only that, but we have also positioned ourselves to do this AGAIN next year, which is no small miracle. Our front office said they'd be fools to think they can select talent THAT much better than anyone else, and the best way to increase their odds of locating valuable assets is to greatly increase the "number of swings they get at the plate." We did that for 2017, and we have done it again in 2018.
The only player we lost of consequence was Terrell Pryor, and that wasn't our fault at all. We added serious talent on the offensive line, our other lineman are getting healthy, and perhaps most importantly, we let Ray Horton go and added Gregg Williams. Williams has a Super Bowl ring and was a coach that other teams actually wanted. When was the last time we could say THAT? So knowing all of this, how could our team actually be worse than last year? Our QB situation isn't much better, if better at all, but it's also hard to say it's worse. We added the #1 talent in the draft, our defensive line has skill and depth, and our two starting linebackers are seriously talented. Where are we worse as a position group?
If you're angry about the state of the franchise, nobody could really blame you. I think our team could actually go 4-12 and it would be a FUN year. It would be fun because we'd get to see our young players develop. Maybe we see one of our QB's actually take hold of the offense and really establish himself as a starter in this league. I very much believe we'll be noticeably better at pressuring the QB, and I also believe our defense will be much better overall which will allow us to run the ball later in more games. Listen, I'm not saying we're going to be "good" this year, but I do believe we can have a fun season and have a losing record. And what's more important is we can add further assets in 2018 and continue to build our team from the ground up. For the first time in a LONG time, I can say I see the team's process, and I agree with it. It actually looks like we have a plan.
This board is a forum for people to express their opinions, and I respect yours. However, I completely disagree with it. Last year's team was virtually torn down to the nub, and we expunged many of our older players in favor of youth and affordability. We did that to acquire future assets and position ourselves to add a substantial amount of potential talent in 2017, which many agree, we executed. Not only that, but we have also positioned ourselves to do this AGAIN next year, which is no small miracle. Our front office said they'd be fools to think they can select talent THAT much better than anyone else, and the best way to increase their odds of locating valuable assets is to greatly increase the "number of swings they get at the plate." We did that for 2017, and we have done it again in 2018.
The only player we lost of consequence was Terrell Pryor, and that wasn't our fault at all. We added serious talent on the offensive line, our other lineman are getting healthy, and perhaps most importantly, we let Ray Horton go and added Gregg Williams. Williams has a Super Bowl ring and was a coach that other teams actually wanted. When was the last time we could say THAT? So knowing all of this, how could our team actually be worse than last year? Our QB situation isn't much better, if better at all, but it's also hard to say it's worse. We added the #1 talent in the draft, our defensive line has skill and depth, and our two starting linebackers are seriously talented. Where are we worse as a position group?
If you're angry about the state of the franchise, nobody could really blame you. I think our team could actually go 4-12 and it would be a FUN year. It would be fun because we'd get to see our young players develop. Maybe we see one of our QB's actually take hold of the offense and really establish himself as a starter in this league. I very much believe we'll be noticeably better at pressuring the QB, and I also believe our defense will be much better overall which will allow us to run the ball later in more games. Listen, I'm not saying we're going to be "good" this year, but I do believe we can have a fun season and have a losing record. And what's more important is we can add further assets in 2018 and continue to build our team from the ground up. For the first time in a LONG time, I can say I see the team's process, and I agree with it. It actually looks like we have a plan.
Sorry but 4-12 is not My idea of "development"
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
This board is a forum for people to express their opinions, and I respect yours. However, I completely disagree with it. Last year's team was virtually torn down to the nub, and we expunged many of our older players in favor of youth and affordability. We did that to acquire future assets and position ourselves to add a substantial amount of potential talent in 2017, which many agree, we executed. Not only that, but we have also positioned ourselves to do this AGAIN next year, which is no small miracle. Our front office said they'd be fools to think they can select talent THAT much better than anyone else, and the best way to increase their odds of locating valuable assets is to greatly increase the "number of swings they get at the plate." We did that for 2017, and we have done it again in 2018.
The only player we lost of consequence was Terrell Pryor, and that wasn't our fault at all. We added serious talent on the offensive line, our other lineman are getting healthy, and perhaps most importantly, we let Ray Horton go and added Gregg Williams. Williams has a Super Bowl ring and was a coach that other teams actually wanted. When was the last time we could say THAT? So knowing all of this, how could our team actually be worse than last year? Our QB situation isn't much better, if better at all, but it's also hard to say it's worse. We added the #1 talent in the draft, our defensive line has skill and depth, and our two starting linebackers are seriously talented. Where are we worse as a position group?
If you're angry about the state of the franchise, nobody could really blame you. I think our team could actually go 4-12 and it would be a FUN year. It would be fun because we'd get to see our young players develop. Maybe we see one of our QB's actually take hold of the offense and really establish himself as a starter in this league. I very much believe we'll be noticeably better at pressuring the QB, and I also believe our defense will be much better overall which will allow us to run the ball later in more games. Listen, I'm not saying we're going to be "good" this year, but I do believe we can have a fun season and have a losing record. And what's more important is we can add further assets in 2018 and continue to build our team from the ground up. For the first time in a LONG time, I can say I see the team's process, and I agree with it. It actually looks like we have a plan.
Sorry but 4-12 is not My idea of "development"
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It's all relative. 4-12 isn't good, but it's sure as shit better than 1-15.
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