Two Tight End System?
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This seems like a conversation that has been had over the years. Shea and Heiden. Winslow and whoever was with Winslow. Jordan and Barnidge. Barnidge and whoever was with Barnidge...
I think there's far too much inexperience and blocking accumen with these guys to suggest they will be a better duo than Shea and Heiden.
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barnidge's name should not be even mentioned in same breath as newsome and bavarro.
jordan, winslow....????? HA!!!!!
thanks for the 3 years (each) of nothingness.
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This seems like a conversation that has been had over the years. Shea and Heiden. Winslow and whoever was with Winslow. Jordan and Barnidge. Barnidge and whoever was with Barnidge...
I think there's far too much inexperience and blocking accumen with these guys to suggest they will be a better duo than Shea and Heiden.
This seems like a conversation that has been had over the years. Shea and Heiden. Winslow and whoever was with Winslow. Jordan and Barnidge. Barnidge and whoever was with Barnidge...
I think there's far too much inexperience and blocking accumen with these guys to suggest they will be a better duo than Shea and Heiden.
Were Jordan and Barnidge ever on the team together?
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I can't wait to see DeValve and Njoku emerge into productive TEs. That said, keeping DeValve healthy has been a challenge. This is his last 3 years at Princeton:
2013 9 Games
2014 3 Games
2015 5 Games
Not exactly a reflection of durability. His athleticism is very intriguing though. He made one catch in traffic last year where our QB hung him out to dry in a zone where ill-advised throws have been know to facilitate the kill-shots. The reason I say such a thing is, for a guy that's had a lot of injuries in the past, he had no fear going over the middle regardless of the throw.
Njoku, is really young. I think he's only 20; which is as old as OJ Howard was when OJ indicated he needed to return to another year at Alabama to improve upon his consistency with blocking. That really paid off. No reason the same can't be true for an elite athlete with a good frame like Njoku.
I can't wait to see DeValve and Njoku emerge into productive TEs. That said, keeping DeValve healthy has been a challenge. This is his last 3 years at Princeton:
2013 9 Games
2014 3 Games
2015 5 Games
Sober Poet let me start with a Welcome Aboard the Browns Board of Madness. We share a love of the TE position. I was the TE at St. Johns HS at Toledo,Oh. when Rob Chudzinski just got to St.Johns. I failed my walk-on shot at TE at U of Toledo. 0 college TD's(killed it in spring ball with 4 TD's).. I was also at this years draft & was absolutely ecstatic with the Njoku pick. In a nutshell at TE we have 5 on roster all roughly 6'4" 250. Am lost with Seaman & Hue & the approach they see to use. Eifert or Gronk'ish? Barniage job was taken in Carolina by one of the best blockout defender TE's in Greg Olsen. Gary used it in Cleveland. Damn shame Olsen never gave Barney the secret to blocking. Seth DeValve tape at Princeton shows the same as 2 years with Browns. Seth plays with the Gronk reckless abandon but with no clue on how to protect his body taking falls or hits. Till Seth learns this league is not full of Princeton level talent, time in the tub is Seth's issue. Telfer maybe our best line blocker but his lisfrac foot made him a very slow passing weapon.In Ota's I hear Seaman likes the overall looks of Taylor McNamara. Leaving either JP Holtz or McNamara maybe crashing Telfer's roster spot? with Telfer being cut OR stashing McNamara/Holtz on PS with Telfer as a active? 3rd TE? With all TE juices flowing. I can't wait till pads are popping at TE.. Great (actual football)+1 post Sober
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This seems like a conversation that has been had over the years. Shea and Heiden. Winslow and whoever was with Winslow. Jordan and Barnidge. Barnidge and whoever was with Barnidge...
I think there's far too much inexperience and blocking accumen with these guys to suggest they will be a better duo than Shea and Heiden.
Were Jordan and Barnidge ever on the team together?
Were Jordan and Barnidge ever on the team together?
Yes. Cam was '11 to '14, Barn '13 to '16. Though really, until Barnidge's breakout year he seemed to be the "oh, he made the team again?" guy. I always assumed he was the good blocking TE because he never had great receiving stats until Cam split.
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Have to admit... I'd forgotten that Bavaro dropped in for a year with us. But given his impact...
On Barn... he had one great receiving year in a favorable system with a relatively weak WR corps and a QB with whom he seemed to share a brain. He was never a good blocker. While I appreciate the memory of him being the bright spot he was in 2015, he simply was not a part of our TE future.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Have to admit... I'd forgotten that Bavaro dropped in for a year with us. But given his impact...
On Barn... he had one great receiving year in a favorable system with a relatively weak WR corps and a QB with whom he seemed to share a brain. He was never a good blocker. While I appreciate the memory of him being the bright spot he was in 2015, he simply was not a part of our TE future.
Have to admit... I'd forgotten that Bavaro dropped in for a year with us. But given his impact...
On Barn... he had one great receiving year in a favorable system with a relatively weak WR corps and a QB with whom he seemed to share a brain. He was never a good blocker. While I appreciate the memory of him being the bright spot he was in 2015, he simply was not a part of our TE future.
Well said Tour.
Keep in mind, after a career year in 2015 (that didn't resemble any other) with 9 TD receptions and something like 78 receptions - he got a hefty raise for it. Unfortunately, his reception volume decreased by about 23 receptions while he dropped to only 2 TD receptions in 2016 when he carried the bigger contract. To me, he looked like he was in pain when he was trying to get open last year. He may have only been 1 year older than he was in 2016 - but he ran at the speed of park at 31 years of age.
Prior to the draft my hope at #12 was OJ Howard. Having said that, I think the ceiling is just as high for Njoku and I like where we selected him in round 1. Late but early enough to prevent Pittsburgh from solidifying a very important prong of attack.
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Im thinking Njoku could be the better prospect(over Howard), but just didnt get the exposure of an Alabama or the opportunities, from his system, to rack up the same numbers......pretty excited about him......
Gotta add, that when Barny went all 1000 yds, in "his year", I pointed out that it was a 1 year aberration...only to be shot down by the sunshine crowd....but, right again.....
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Im thinking Njoku could be the better prospect(over Howard), but just didnt get the exposure of an Alabama or the opportunities, from his system, to rack up the same numbers......pretty excited about him......
Gotta add, that when Barny went all 1000 yds, in "his year", I pointed out that it was a 1 year aberration...only to be shot down by the sunshine crowd....but, right again.....
Im thinking Njoku could be the better prospect(over Howard), but just didnt get the exposure of an Alabama or the opportunities, from his system, to rack up the same numbers......pretty excited about him......
Gotta add, that when Barny went all 1000 yds, in "his year", I pointed out that it was a 1 year aberration...only to be shot down by the sunshine crowd....but, right again.....
Yep, good stuff Mud! And he's only 20 while Barnidge will be turning 32 this Fall.
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Im thinking Njoku could be the better prospect(over Howard), but just didnt get the exposure of an Alabama or the opportunities, from his system, to rack up the same numbers......pretty excited about him......
Gotta add, that when Barny went all 1000 yds, in "his year", I pointed out that it was a 1 year aberration...only to be shot down by the sunshine crowd....but, right again.....
Thanks, Flugs...
Im thinking Njoku could be the better prospect(over Howard), but just didnt get the exposure of an Alabama or the opportunities, from his system, to rack up the same numbers......pretty excited about him......
Gotta add, that when Barny went all 1000 yds, in "his year", I pointed out that it was a 1 year aberration...only to be shot down by the sunshine crowd....but, right again.....
Pretty sure I was not one of the "shooters"...
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Have to admit... I'd forgotten that Bavaro dropped in for a year with us. But given his impact...
On Barn... he had one great receiving year in a favorable system with a relatively weak WR corps and a QB with whom he seemed to share a brain. He was never a good blocker. While I appreciate the memory of him being the bright spot he was in 2015, he simply was not a part of our TE future.
Have to admit... I'd forgotten that Bavaro dropped in for a year with us.
Part of him did. Bavaro only had 25 catches for 315 yards and 2 TDs in 16 games; and he wasn't healthy enough to practice in between games. It was still pretty cool to see in him a Browns uniform though. It was also great to see Pepper Johnson and Carl Banks in a Browns uniform.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Have to admit... I'd forgotten that Bavaro dropped in for a year with us.
Part of him did. Bavaro only had 25 catches for 315 yards and 2 TDs in 16 games; and he wasn't healthy enough to practice in between games. It was still pretty cool to see in him a Browns uniform though. It was also great to see Pepper Johnson and Carl Banks in a Browns uniform.
Not to mention RB Joe Morris.Part of him did. Bavaro only had 25 catches for 315 yards and 2 TDs in 16 games; and he wasn't healthy enough to practice in between games. It was still pretty cool to see in him a Browns uniform though. It was also great to see Pepper Johnson and Carl Banks in a Browns uniform.
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Im thinking Njoku could be the better prospect(over Howard), but just didnt get the exposure of an Alabama or the opportunities, from his system, to rack up the same numbers......pretty excited about him......
Gotta add, that when Barny went all 1000 yds, in "his year", I pointed out that it was a 1 year aberration...only to be shot down by the sunshine crowd....but, right again.....
Barns less than 1000 yards last year had plenty to do with QB playIm thinking Njoku could be the better prospect(over Howard), but just didnt get the exposure of an Alabama or the opportunities, from his system, to rack up the same numbers......pretty excited about him......
Gotta add, that when Barny went all 1000 yds, in "his year", I pointed out that it was a 1 year aberration...only to be shot down by the sunshine crowd....but, right again.....
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Barns less than 1000 yards last year had plenty to do with QB playIm thinking Njoku could be the better prospect(over Howard), but just didnt get the exposure of an Alabama or the opportunities, from his system, to rack up the same numbers......pretty excited about him......
Gotta add, that when Barny went all 1000 yds, in "his year", I pointed out that it was a 1 year aberration...only to be shot down by the sunshine crowd....but, right again.....
Barns less than 1000 yards last year had plenty to do with QB play
Or, we could look at Barnidge's entire NFL career and see that 2015 was an exception to the rule. Let's try not pretend the QBing was terrific in 2015.
He had some drops in 2016 as well as some difficulty getting open when there weren't defensive breakdowns leaving him wide open. I remember the second time we played Cincy in 2015, they game planned to jam him at the los. This carried over into 2016 when a lot of our opponents did this to him; which left us counting on inexperienced first year starters at WRs (Pryor & Coleman/Louis). Makes sense to me. Aside from that, Barnidge looked like he was in pain via the way he was running/waddling at 31 years of age. 55 receptions wasn't horrible; but it was quite a drop off from 78 as was going from 9 TD receptions to just 2.
Hue loved using Ryan Hewitt as the HB in Cincy while his 6'6" TE Tyler's Eiferts provided 10 TD receptions in that red zone our team gagged on last year. Even Pryor, for the year he had going over 1000 yards receiving, could only score 4 TDs. Hue has to be pretty excited about DeValve & Njoku.
I know this goes against my level of trust here - but could you imagine if Josh Gordon could finally prioritize his life to the extent he could consistently pass enough piss tests to play ball? We'd have Josh Gordon, Kenny Britt, David Njoku, Seth DeValve and RB Duke Johnson giving Hue some similarity to AJ Green, Marvin Jones Jr, Ryan Hewitt, Tyler Eifert and RB Gio Bernard that he coordinated to a 12-4 record. We even have one of his OGs (Zeitler). I doubt we're going from 1-15 to 12-4 with he experience levels we're counting on here. The question is - can Kessler or Kizer be somewhat equivalent to Andy Dalton in one of his best years as a NFL QB?
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
BTW former Texas A&M 5 star WR recruit Ricky Seals-Jones signed as a FA with Ariz. and is making the conversion to TE @ 6'5" 250 lbs, just as I suggested earlier this year. He should have stayed in school and made the conversion his senior year much like our former RB Brandon Williams did to CB his senior year and is now a starter for Ariz.in the NFL as a CB. Stupid is as stupid does. Tough to learn a position while trying to make a team with no prior experience in that position.
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BTW former Texas A&M 5 star WR recruit Ricky Seals-Jones signed as a FA with Ariz. and is making the conversion to TE @ 6'5" 250 lbs, just as I suggested earlier this year. He should have stayed in school and made the conversion his senior year much like our former RB Brandon Williams did to CB his senior year and is now a starter for Ariz.in the NFL as a CB. Stupid is as stupid does. Tough to learn a position while trying to make a team with no prior experience in that position.
BTW former Texas A&M 5 star WR recruit Ricky Seals-Jones signed as a FA with Ariz. and is making the conversion to TE @ 6'5" 250 lbs, just as I suggested earlier this year. He should have stayed in school and made the conversion his senior year much like our former RB Brandon Williams did to CB his senior year and is now a starter for Ariz.in the NFL as a CB. Stupid is as stupid does. Tough to learn a position while trying to make a team with no prior experience in that position.
Ricky Jones? Is Chuckie still in love?
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Barns less than 1000 yards last year had plenty to do with QB play
Or, we could look at Barnidge's entire NFL career and see that 2015 was an exception to the rule. Let's try not pretend the QBing was terrific in 2015.
He had some drops in 2016 as well as some difficulty getting open when there weren't defensive breakdowns leaving him wide open. I remember the second time we played Cincy in 2015, they game planned to jam him at the los. This carried over into 2016 when a lot of our opponents did this to him; which left us counting on inexperienced first year starters at WRs (Pryor & Coleman/Louis). Makes sense to me. Aside from that, Barnidge looked like he was in pain via the way he was running/waddling at 31 years of age. 55 receptions wasn't horrible; but it was quite a drop off from 78 as was going from 9 TD receptions to just 2.
Hue loved using Ryan Hewitt as the HB in Cincy while his 6'6" TE Tyler's Eiferts provided 10 TD receptions in that red zone our team gagged on last year. Even Pryor, for the year he had going over 1000 yards receiving, could only score 4 TDs. Hue has to be pretty excited about DeValve & Njoku.
I know this goes against my level of trust here - but could you imagine if Josh Gordon could finally prioritize his life to the extent he could consistently pass enough piss tests to play ball? We'd have Josh Gordon, Kenny Britt, David Njoku, Seth DeValve and RB Duke Johnson giving Hue some similarity to AJ Green, Marvin Jones Jr, Ryan Hewitt, Tyler Eifert and RB Gio Bernard that he coordinated to a 12-4 record. We even have one of his OGs (Zeitler). I doubt we're going from 1-15 to 12-4 with he experience levels we're counting on here. The question is - can Kessler or Kizer be somewhat equivalent to Andy Dalton in one of his best years as a NFL QB?
Or, we could look at Barnidge's entire NFL career and see that 2015 was an exception to the rule. Let's try not pretend the QBing was terrific in 2015.
I'm not a Barnidge apologist by any means, but that's not exactly a fair argument. There was never an opportunity for Barnidge to receive targets. 2015 really represented the first opportunity for him as a lead TE or not behind a HOF WR and Barnidge responded accordingly.
For the first two years of his career, he was third fiddle TE on a team that had bad QB play and only targeted their TE's about 60 or so times a season collectively. CAR was all WR - Muhammad and Smith were bringing in 100-130 targets each. Then a down year with Claustrich at the helm, and CAR brought in Olson (and Shockey for a season). Barnidge was never a lead TE for them, never received any significant targets, and never stood a chance.
I understand the Barnidge cut and I'm not saying we should have kept him. But he's a good player, a good teammate, and a good guy. As a lead TE, it's not without the realm of possibility that he'd be a 900 yd guy.
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Or, we could look at Barnidge's entire NFL career and see that 2015 was an exception to the rule. Let's try not pretend the QBing was terrific in 2015.
I'm not a Barnidge apologist by any means, but that's not exactly a fair argument. There was never an opportunity for Barnidge to receive targets. 2015 really represented the first opportunity for him as a lead TE or not behind a HOF WR and Barnidge responded accordingly.
For the first two years of his career, he was third fiddle TE on a team that had bad QB play and only targeted their TE's about 60 or so times a season collectively. CAR was all WR - Muhammad and Smith were bringing in 100-130 targets each. Then a down year with Claustrich at the helm, and CAR brought in Olson (and Shockey for a season). Barnidge was never a lead TE for them, never received any significant targets, and never stood a chance.
I understand the Barnidge cut and I'm not saying we should have kept him. But he's a good player, a good teammate, and a good guy. As a lead TE, it's not without the realm of possibility that he'd be a 900 yd guy.
I'm not a Barnidge apologist by any means, but that's not exactly a fair argument. There was never an opportunity for Barnidge to receive targets. 2015 really represented the first opportunity for him as a lead TE or not behind a HOF WR and Barnidge responded accordingly.
For the first two years of his career, he was third fiddle TE on a team that had bad QB play and only targeted their TE's about 60 or so times a season collectively. CAR was all WR - Muhammad and Smith were bringing in 100-130 targets each. Then a down year with Claustrich at the helm, and CAR brought in Olson (and Shockey for a season). Barnidge was never a lead TE for them, never received any significant targets, and never stood a chance.
I understand the Barnidge cut and I'm not saying we should have kept him. But he's a good player, a good teammate, and a good guy. As a lead TE, it's not without the realm of possibility that he'd be a 900 yd guy.
You make some really good points. Good post Couch! Believe it or not, I LIKED Barnidge as a person and as a role model for younger players (especially to show guys he could persevere if he kept working hard). He was also a good community guy that went over-seas to honor the troops. I think we all enjoyed what he did in 2015 enough to set up some expectations for 2016.
Unfortunately, the other side of this is - it's business. He was given a hefty raise at 30 years of age after only 1 season of performing like a starting TE that didn't block well. Nonetheless, that one season he gave us about 79 receptions (9 were TDs) for 1043 yards in 2015. 1 year later, he looked like he aged about 7 years just in terms of watching him struggle to get open (often looking like he was in a lot of pain) while we are all aware our QBs didn't do him very many favors. He lost 24 receptions and 7 TD receptions as well as about 431 receiving yards. The timing of the about-face couldn't have been worse for him while he was finally earning a dream salary he longed for. Consequently, the FO also had to do an about-face and come to grips with the reality he will be turning 32 in September (instead of looking at him like he offered us a continuity we could trust and move forward with via the raise). Now, TE returned to being a position we needed to upgrade; Barnidge was released and we selected the 20 year old David Njoku in round 1.
There's a lot of short windows in the NFL and this is a classic example...
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