Manny Ramirez SUSPENDED 50 Games - Performance Enhancers
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Pete Rose's numbers as a player are HOF material... The trouble is, as a manager, he bet on baseball--even doing it during a game from the club house...
In every major league contract there's a clause that specifically says that gambling on baseball is cause for lifetime suspension... It's very clear and each year during spring training it's reinforced time and time again... All active players, coaches, managers or front office personnel are subject to expulsion if engaging in gambling...
I loved Pete Rose, played the game the way it's supposed to be played but he committed baseballs mortal sin and deserves what he got... He knew upfront what he was risking and now is paying the price... Shoeless Joe Jackson is not in the HOF for the same reason... Sorry but Pete Rose is where he belongs, did it to himself and that's the way it is...... You can't have selective inforcement..
T.Dawg
Pete Rose's numbers as a player are HOF material... The trouble is, as a manager, he bet on baseball--even doing it during a game from the club house...
In every major league contract there's a clause that specifically says that gambling on baseball is cause for lifetime suspension... It's very clear and each year during spring training it's reinforced time and time again... All active players, coaches, managers or front office personnel are subject to expulsion if engaging in gambling...
I loved Pete Rose, played the game the way it's supposed to be played but he committed baseballs mortal sin and deserves what he got... He knew upfront what he was risking and now is paying the price... Shoeless Joe Jackson is not in the HOF for the same reason... Sorry but Pete Rose is where he belongs, did it to himself and that's the way it is...... You can't have selective inforcement..
T.Dawg
You judge a player by there playing career to get in the hall of fame. What Rose did while a manager should have no bearing on his HOF status as a player. If you dont want to put him in as a manager thats fine but he should be in based on his playing career
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too bad voters dont see it the same way...and they're really the only ones that matter.
If Pete Rose was on a ballet he would be in, in a heartbeat
The only person keeping him out is Bud Selig, the guy that allowed the steroid era. The guy who one day will be in the HOF, now thats a disgrace to baseball
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i didn't like baseball then, dislike it even more now. they got busted at a publicity stunt, and are pushing it threw despite the fact. pretty sad actually.
as rating were falling, the only thing to spring the life back into baseball was the mcguire run. baseball execs knowing sold their livelihood, and American pastime, down the river for money.
they'll reap what they sow....especially if they let these records stand.
and xxxx pete rose...trying to capitalize on this situation to get into the hall of fame.
this sports pathetic....
All I'll say is I'm damn glad baseball is way down on my list of pro sports. They let the inmates run the asylum for far too long.
Beans is the baseball purist- seems like. You have some mighty good points. And what it boils down to- if everybody's cheating, then nobody's cheating. Juiced up pitchers throwing at juiced up batters.
Ironic Rose's nickname "Charlie Hustle" pretty accurately describes why he'll never see the HOF in his lifetime- and it serves him right. And the voters seem to agree that steroids are something that keeps you out of the Hall.
Yeah, McGuire was only taking androsterone. Clemens accidentally sat on a needle 20 times while his wife was taking HGH. Bonds thought "the Clear" was in one of my bottles of Curacao. How much is he paying his trainer to go to jail again to keep his dirty not-so-secret secret?
Beans is the baseball purist- seems like.
Oh, not even close. The baseball purist hates the DH, pisses on inter-league play, grinds his heel deep into the blueprints of expansion and defecates all over the '68 rule change that lowered the mound.
I'm not that guy. I simply love the game, warts and all. Not a popular opinion around these parts, it seems.
My question to you about voiding Sosa's records was sincere - how in the hell do you do that? I know all about his corked bat and his corked-filled arms and Rick Reilly's "Excuse Me For Asking" column. I'm pretty sure I know his ass was filled with syringe holes during the latter part of his career.
But my question was simple - how in the hell do you void his career marks and place them in the trash can?
I get that *you* want to ignore his numbers and that's fine. But they actually happened and the record book is nothing more than a recording of those events. As it always has been, it's there for you to interpret any way you'd like. Just as you would if your favorite running back spent four seasons running behind a tackle who was oozing testosterone cream.
Not that that could possibly happen.
Not to come across as too defensive in this crowd, but it's high comedy to read that a football fan is thankful he's not a baseball fan due to...steroids in the sport.
Beanpot
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I love baseball; I really do...this stuff just makes me sad...bunch of tools
When do we get a real team back in Cleveland?
Beans - Offer is still open for a Clippers game at Huntington Park...on me; we can rehash old RR days under the sun
Beans - Offer is still open for a Clippers game at Huntington Park...on me; we can rehash old RR days under the sun
Man, I'd like that. Shoot me an email - [email protected]. I'll be up North a couple of times this summer.
Beanpot
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too bad voters dont see it the same way...and they're really the only ones that matter.
If Pete Rose was on a ballet he would be in, in a heartbeat
The only person keeping him out is Bud Selig, the guy that allowed the steroid era. The guy who one day will be in the HOF, now thats a disgrace to baseball
nmills said:
If Pete Rose was on a ballet he would be in, in a heartbeatThe only person keeping him out is Bud Selig, the guy that allowed the steroid era. The guy who one day will be in the HOF, now thats a disgrace to baseball
Yeah, that's not true at all.
That's so far from being true that it's rotating around the planet and approaching it's not true source.
We've had this discussion for so many years (not sure if any of 'em happened on the current board) that I'm just going to say you're f*%ked if you actually think Bud Selig is keeping Pete Rose out of the HOF.
Beanpot
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nmills said:
If Pete Rose was on a ballet he would be in, in a heartbeatThe only person keeping him out is Bud Selig, the guy that allowed the steroid era. The guy who one day will be in the HOF, now thats a disgrace to baseball
Yeah, that's not true at all.
That's so far from being true that it's rotating around the planet and approaching it's not true source.
We've had this discussion for so many years (not sure if any of 'em happened on the current board) that I'm just going to say you're f*%ked if you actually think Bud Selig is keeping Pete Rose out of the HOF.
Beanpot
Yeah, that's not true at all.
That's so far from being true that it's rotating around the planet and approaching it's not true source.
We've had this discussion for so many years (not sure if any of 'em happened on the current board) that I'm just going to say you're f*%ked if you actually think Bud Selig is keeping Pete Rose out of the HOF.
Beanpot
Are you kidding me, Selig said as long as he's alive Rose will never see the HOF. If that aint keeping him from the HOF I dont no what is
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Yeah, that's not true at all.
That's so far from being true that it's rotating around the planet and approaching it's not true source.
We've had this discussion for so many years (not sure if any of 'em happened on the current board) that I'm just going to say you're f*%ked if you actually think Bud Selig is keeping Pete Rose out of the HOF.
Beanpot
Are you kidding me, Selig said as long as he's alive Rose will never see the HOF. If that aint keeping him from the HOF I dont no what is
nmills said:
Are you kidding me, Selig said as long as he's alive Rose will never see the HOF. If that aint keeping him from the HOF I dont no what isHoly Christ.
Are you kidding ME? I don't "no" what you "no" about his eligibility, but Selig is simply the trust-holder. Rose voluntarily accepted a permanent placement on the banished list, not Selig. I swear to God I'm not going to get into the Dowd Report and the formal findings yet again, but I'll scream from the Heavens that Bud Selig is NOT the reason Pete Rose isn't in the Hall of Fame.
You're ill-informed if you believe that to be true.
Beanpot
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@inspecta said:
As far as I know Rose never bet on his own team, therefore he never effected the outcome of any games other than trying his best to winExcept he did just that. Several times, according to him. Every night according to one report and not every night according to others. On the off chance anyone continues to believe him:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2798498
Rose admits to betting on Reds 'every night'
ESPN.com news services
Pete Rose revealed Wednesday that he bet on the Reds "every night" while he was manager of the team and that the Dowd Report was correct when it said he did so.
Rose spoke Wednesday with Dan Patrick and Keith Olbermann on ESPN Radio to discuss the new Pete Rose exhibit that will be on display at the Great American Ballpark as part of the Reds Hall of Fame. The exhibit will be on display for 11 months.
"I bet on my team every night. I didn't bet on my team four nights a week. I was wrong," Rose said.
Rose said that he believed in his team so much that he bet on them to win every night.
"I bet on my team to win every night because I love my team, I believe in my team," Rose said. "I did everything in my power every night to win that game."
Rose accepted a lifetime ban for gambling in 1989, but denied for nearly 15 years that he bet on baseball. He finally acknowledged in his latest autobiography, published in January 2004, that he made baseball wagers while he managed the Cincinnati Reds.
Rose said he doesn't worry about getting into the Hall of Fame anymore, but if he is reinstated, he hopes to manage again in the majors.
"I quit worrying about it," Rose said about the Hall. The former Reds great said that he thought he was going to be reinstated when he met with commissioner Bud Selig before his book came out. Rose said he met with Selig about a year before the book came out and told him everything that was in the book.
"I really thought I was going to be reinstated. Something changed [selig's] mind," Rose said.
On Thursday, John Dowd, who authored the report chronicling Rose's gambling as a member of the Reds, told "Cold Pizza" on ESPN2 that Rose was mostly right when he said he bet on every Reds game.
Dowd told the program that Rose did not bet at all in the 1987 season when Mario Soto or Bill Gullickson pitched. He also said that Rose bet while he was playing.
Dowd said Rose will never get into the Hall of Fame and should just "get used to it."
Rose said he believes it should be up to each individual owner whether he should manage in the majors again.
"[it's] all about dollars, Dan and Keith. If I was ever reinstated. If an owner don't want to win and draw people, don't call my number," Rose said.
Major League Baseball's Hit King also said he thinks that Mark McGwire is getting a raw deal from the writers voting for the Hall of Fame. The reason he said he supported McGwire is because nothing has been proven and they're all "allegations."
"Don't penalize McGwire because you think other guys are taking steroids," Rose said.
McGwire wasn't voted into the Hall of Fame in his first appearance on the ballot in January because of allegations he used performance-enhancing drugs in his career.
Rose admits he made a mistake in betting on baseball.
"I made a big mistake. It's my fault, It's nobody's else's fault," Rose said. However, he said he should be reinstated because "I'm the best ambassador baseball has."
Because of the ban, Rose is not eligible for induction into the Reds' or Baseball's Hall of Fame. He also is not allowed to be involved in most on-field activities, which has prevented the Reds from retiring his uniform No. 14.
Major League Baseball did include him in two events -- 1999's All-Century Team and 2002's 30 Memorable Moments -- that were sponsored by a credit card company.
The new exhibit includes more than 300 items from the career of Rose, who finished playing in 1986 with a record 4,256 hits. His total is reflected at the Reds' Hall in a three-story high wall of baseballs -- one for each hit.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=27...&type=story
Beanpot
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Rose agreed to a permanent ineligibility from baseball, after that the HOF voted to ban players on the permanent ineligibile list from induction.
Rose accepted that there was a factual reason for the ban; in return, Major League Baseball agreed to make no formal finding with regard to the gambling allegations.
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@inspecta said:
There is a distinction, because if he was betting on them to win, then obviously he's still trying to win. If he bet on them to lose, well then thats just disgusting to think as a manager he would of mismanaged games on purpose to lose.Terrific point. I don't know that the distinction is quite so large. If he bet on them to win on a certain day, he may burn his bullpen without giving thought to the next game or the remainder of the series.
Regardless of the hopeful outcome, it's quite possible that his reaction would have been based on the amount of money he stood to lose.
Beanpot
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Rose agreed to a permanent ineligibility from baseball, after that the HOF voted to ban players on the permanent ineligibile list from induction.
Rose accepted that there was a factual reason for the ban; in return, Major League Baseball agreed to make no formal finding with regard to the gambling allegations.
nmills said:
Rose agreed to a permanent ineligibility from baseball, after that the HOF voted to ban players on the permanent ineligibile list from induction.Rose accepted that there was a factual reason for the ban; in return, Major League Baseball agreed to make no formal finding with regard to the gambling allegations.
Congrats on making terrific use of copy & paste. Now go back and make a compelling argument that states that Bud Selig is the reason why Pete Rose is not in the HOF.
Beanpot
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nmills said:
Rose agreed to a permanent ineligibility from baseball, after that the HOF voted to ban players on the permanent ineligibile list from induction.Rose accepted that there was a factual reason for the ban; in return, Major League Baseball agreed to make no formal finding with regard to the gambling allegations.
Congrats on making terrific use of copy & paste. Now go back and make a compelling argument that states that Bud Selig is the reason why Pete Rose is not in the HOF.
Beanpot
Congrats on making terrific use of copy & paste. Now go back and make a compelling argument that states that Bud Selig is the reason why Pete Rose is not in the HOF.
Beanpot
I'll try out that copy & paste thing again
Pete Rose should be certainly allowed back into baseball. When Bart Giamatti, the commissioner at the time the gambling allegations were made against Rose, suspended Rose for life, he didn’t intend for it to be a lifetime banishment. Giamatti took this action after the Dowd Report was returned and seemed to damn Rose on gambling charges. When Rose signed the agreement to be suspended for life by Giamatti, he signed the agreement under the pretext that he would be suspended from baseball for a year and then he could apply for re-instatement. Rose fully believed he would be allowed to return at this point. Well, to paraphrase a long chain of events, Bart Giamatti died and to present day the commissioners of baseball have not been nearly as sympathetic to Rose’s case for reinstatement as I believe Mr. Giamatti would have been.
The current commissioner, Bud Selig, has always maintained that Rose would not be reinstated until he admitted to betting on baseball and showed contrition for his actions. For more than a decade, much predating Selig’s reign as commissioner, Rose refused to admit that he bet on baseball, only admitting to betting on football. Rose admitted to betting on baseball eleven months ago to Mr. Selig, but it was kept a secret until now. Rose has now admitted to betting on baseball and has shown contrition. So now I pose a question: What else does Rose need to do to be reinstated?
The answer to this question is nothing. Rose should have been re-instated after being banished for a year. The fourteen years that he has been out of baseball is ludicrous. Even without the present day confession, Rose paid his debt to baseball after simply being away from the game for a year. After fourteen years of being away from baseball, admitting to the gambling, and showing contrition there is no logical reason to ban him any longer. Not only has he served more than his time, he has fulfilled Selig’s conditions to be reinstated. It is time for him to restore Pete Rose to Major League Baseball.
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wow...you get pwnd on your only 2 points......and you continue?
you need to sharpen the pencil.....
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Rose agreed to a permanent ineligibility from baseball, after that the HOF voted to ban players on the permanent ineligibile list from induction.
Rose accepted that there was a factual reason for the ban; in return, Major League Baseball agreed to make no formal finding with regard to the gambling allegations.
nmills said:
Rose agreed to a permanent ineligibility from baseball, after that the HOF voted to ban players on the permanent ineligibile list from induction.Rose accepted that there was a factual reason for the ban; in return, Major League Baseball agreed to make no formal finding with regard to the gambling allegations.
There was more than that:
THEREFORE, the Commissioner, recognizing the benefits to Baseball from a resolution of this matter, orders and directs that Peter Edward Rose be subject to the following disciplinary sanctions, and Peter Edward Rose, recognizing the sole and exclusive authority of the Commissioner and that it is in his interest to resolve this matter without further proceedings, agrees to accept the following disciplinary sanctions imposed by the Commissioner.
a. Peter Edward Rose is hereby declared permanently ineligible in accordance with Major League Rule 21 and placed on the Ineligible List.
b. Nothing in this Agreement shall deprive Peter Edward Rose of the rights under Major League Rule 15
to apply for reinstatement. THEREFORE, the Commissioner, recognizing the benefits to Baseball from a resolution of this matter, orders and directs that Peter Edward Rose be subject to the following disciplinary sanctions, and Peter Edward Rose, recognizing the sole and exclusive authority of the Commissioner and that it is in his interest to resolve this matter without further proceedings, agrees to accept the following disciplinary sanctions imposed by the Commissioner.a. Peter Edward Rose is hereby declared permanently ineligible in accordance with Major League Rule 21 and placed on the Ineligible List.
b. Nothing in this Agreement shall deprive Peter Edward Rose of the rights under Major League Rule 15
to apply for reinstatement. Peter Edward Rose agrees not to challenge, appeal or otherwise contest the decision of, or the procedure employed by, the Commissioner or any future Commissioner in the evaluation of any application for reinstatement.c. Nothing in this agreement shall be deemed either an admission or a denial by Peter Edward Rose of the allegation that he bet on any Major League Baseball game.
"Peter Edward Rose agrees not to challenge, appeal or otherwise contest the decision of, or the procedure employed by, the Commissioner or any future Commissioner in the evaluation of any application for reinstatement."
This was an easy copy and paste. Rose has been the very definition of "contentious" in regards to his reinstatement. You kinda get the idea that Selig doesn't feel it's his privilege to go back on the word of a previous commissioner. He probably considers Giamatti's decision as written in stone.
The paste came from: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/p_rosea.shtml
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nmills said:
Rose agreed to a permanent ineligibility from baseball, after that the HOF voted to ban players on the permanent ineligibile list from induction.Rose accepted that there was a factual reason for the ban; in return, Major League Baseball agreed to make no formal finding with regard to the gambling allegations.
There was more than that:
THEREFORE, the Commissioner, recognizing the benefits to Baseball from a resolution of this matter, orders and directs that Peter Edward Rose be subject to the following disciplinary sanctions, and Peter Edward Rose, recognizing the sole and exclusive authority of the Commissioner and that it is in his interest to resolve this matter without further proceedings, agrees to accept the following disciplinary sanctions imposed by the Commissioner.
a. Peter Edward Rose is hereby declared permanently ineligible in accordance with Major League Rule 21 and placed on the Ineligible List.
b. Nothing in this Agreement shall deprive Peter Edward Rose of the rights under Major League Rule 15
to apply for reinstatement. THEREFORE, the Commissioner, recognizing the benefits to Baseball from a resolution of this matter, orders and directs that Peter Edward Rose be subject to the following disciplinary sanctions, and Peter Edward Rose, recognizing the sole and exclusive authority of the Commissioner and that it is in his interest to resolve this matter without further proceedings, agrees to accept the following disciplinary sanctions imposed by the Commissioner.a. Peter Edward Rose is hereby declared permanently ineligible in accordance with Major League Rule 21 and placed on the Ineligible List.
b. Nothing in this Agreement shall deprive Peter Edward Rose of the rights under Major League Rule 15
to apply for reinstatement. Peter Edward Rose agrees not to challenge, appeal or otherwise contest the decision of, or the procedure employed by, the Commissioner or any future Commissioner in the evaluation of any application for reinstatement.c. Nothing in this agreement shall be deemed either an admission or a denial by Peter Edward Rose of the allegation that he bet on any Major League Baseball game.
"Peter Edward Rose agrees not to challenge, appeal or otherwise contest the decision of, or the procedure employed by, the Commissioner or any future Commissioner in the evaluation of any application for reinstatement."
This was an easy copy and paste. Rose has been the very definition of "contentious" in regards to his reinstatement. You kinda get the idea that Selig doesn't feel it's his privilege to go back on the word of a previous commissioner. He probably considers Giamatti's decision as written in stone.
The paste came from: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/p_rosea.shtml
"Peter Edward Rose agrees not to challenge, appeal or otherwise contest the decision of, or the procedure employed by, the Commissioner or any future Commissioner in the evaluation of any application for reinstatement."
So that says when he files for reinstatement and a commissioner decides not to reinstate him, he cant contest it.
What was that supposed to prove other than my point that Bud Selig is the reason Rose isn't in the HOF
1st Ezekiel Ansah, DE, BYU 3rd Darius Slay, CB, Mississippi State4th Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma5th Earl Wolff, S, N.C. State6th Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico -
Beans is the baseball purist- seems like.
Oh, not even close. The baseball purist hates the DH, pisses on inter-league play, grinds his heel deep into the blueprints of expansion and defecates all over the '68 rule change that lowered the mound.
I'm not that guy. I simply love the game, warts and all. Not a popular opinion around these parts, it seems.
My question to you about voiding Sosa's records was sincere - how in the hell do you do that? I know all about his corked bat and his corked-filled arms and Rick Reilly's "Excuse Me For Asking" column. I'm pretty sure I know his ass was filled with syringe holes during the latter part of his career.
But my question was simple - how in the hell do you void his career marks and place them in the trash can?
I get that *you* want to ignore his numbers and that's fine. But they actually happened and the record book is nothing more than a recording of those events. As it always has been, it's there for you to interpret any way you'd like. Just as you would if your favorite running back spent four seasons running behind a tackle who was oozing testosterone cream.
Not that that could possibly happen.
Not to come across as too defensive in this crowd, but it's high comedy to read that a football fan is thankful he's not a baseball fan due to...steroids in the sport.
Beanpot
Oh, not even close. The baseball purist hates the DH, pisses on inter-league play, grinds his heel deep into the blueprints of expansion and defecates all over the '68 rule change that lowered the mound.
I'm not that guy. I simply love the game, warts and all. Not a popular opinion around these parts, it seems.
My question to you about voiding Sosa's records was sincere - how in the hell do you do that? I know all about his corked bat and his corked-filled arms and Rick Reilly's "Excuse Me For Asking" column. I'm pretty sure I know his ass was filled with syringe holes during the latter part of his career.
But my question was simple - how in the hell do you void his career marks and place them in the trash can?
I get that *you* want to ignore his numbers and that's fine. But they actually happened and the record book is nothing more than a recording of those events. As it always has been, it's there for you to interpret any way you'd like. Just as you would if your favorite running back spent four seasons running behind a tackle who was oozing testosterone cream.
Not that that could possibly happen.
Not to come across as too defensive in this crowd, but it's high comedy to read that a football fan is thankful he's not a baseball fan due to...steroids in the sport.
Beanpot
I think the problem is there's no PROOF that Sosa or McGwire actually did steroids, just like there's no PROOF that 1\2 of the Steelers SB teams of the 70s were juiced up. There's a ton of circumstantial evidence though, no? Maybe it's splitting hairs, but I"m not suggesting punishing a team because individuals on that team were cheating. But individual records in other sports can and do go in the dumper on a regular basis. Like Ben Johnson's 100 meter record. Like Floyd Landis' win in the Tour de France.
Baseball won't have the balls (pun intended) to void the cheaters records- but they sure as hell can keep them out of the hall for it. Better yet- just like they have the Broadcasters Hall, let's build the * Hall. this list will be quite long.
BTW, if A-Roid catches Bonds, it's because he had a head start on the juice.
Oh, the reason baseball is way down on my list- steroids are only a tiny part of the equation.
1) The season is way too long- don't ya just love to see a World Series game played in 38 degree weather, and getting snow-outs in April?
2) Of course the reason the season is way too long is the insane contracts owners have given players. Based on risk\reward factor if A-Roid is worth $250 million, Brady & P. Manning are worth at least twice that.
3) Now because of #2 if I want to see a (meaningless) regular season game from a seat that I don't need a 50 power telescope to see the ball, it's going to set me back what? $40? How 'bout dem Yankee fans that can fork out 4X the price of a SB ticket for the same privilege? FWIW, a seat 5 rows behind the Indians dugout in the 60s cost $4-I saved one.
4) Beauty might be in the eyes of the beholder- but just as America has never really warmed to soccer, a bunch of us just see baseball as plain boring. Like maybe a 1\2 step ahead of tennis (great to play dull to watch) and golf.
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"Peter Edward Rose agrees not to challenge, appeal or otherwise contest the decision of, or the procedure employed by, the Commissioner or any future Commissioner in the evaluation of any application for reinstatement."
So that says when he files for reinstatement and a commissioner decides not to reinstate him, he cant contest it.
What was that supposed to prove other than my point that Bud Selig is the reason Rose isn't in the HOF
nmills said:
So that says when he files for reinstatement and a commissioner decides not to reinstate him, he cant contest it.What was that supposed to prove other than my point that Bud Selig is the reason Rose isn't in the HOF
The reason Pete Rose isn't in the HOF is he bet on baseball while employed in baseball. Rule #21 is on every clubhouse wall. I'm close enough to Cinti to tell you this- got friends that have had personal contact with Peetey- and the unanimous opinion is he's one arrogant a-hole that thinks the rules don't apply to him.
Does he merit inclusion in the hall based on his records? Of course. But somewhere, Shoeless Joe Jackson and Ray Fosse are smiling- you young 'uns can look that up if you like.
So Pete's a compulsive gambler- my vote is to put him in the Hall the year after he croaks- and put Shoeless Joe's bust right next to him.
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"Peter Edward Rose agrees not to challenge, appeal or otherwise contest the decision of, or the procedure employed by, the Commissioner or any future Commissioner in the evaluation of any application for reinstatement."
So that says when he files for reinstatement and a commissioner decides not to reinstate him, he cant contest it.
What was that supposed to prove other than my point that Bud Selig is the reason Rose isn't in the HOF
nmills said:
So that says when he files for reinstatement and a commissioner decides not to reinstate him, he cant contest it.What was that supposed to prove other than my point that Bud Selig is the reason Rose isn't in the HOF
The commissioner that took Rose down was not Budrick, it was Bart Giamatti (sp).
The Rose case reminds me so much of the OJ event in so many ways. Much like the blacks wanted to come to Orenthal's defense and believe his own lies because of past indisgressions towards blacks, Rose had overwhelming evidence against him that he refused to believe.
You gamble on baseball, you forfeit your right to be affiliated in the sport. It's been that way since the Black Sox Scandal. The rules are very cut and dry, so feel free to read up on them.
There is no justification or exceptions pertaining to this issue, it is what it is. Most of us loved Pete Rose as a player, or even if you hated him you respected him. However, nothing can supersede what he's done.
I used to umpire, and this all correlates to the same principal, it's cut and dry.
As far as juice goes, there is no way to gauge any of it. It's totally ambiguous and Beanpot's post above says it all. You can't asterisk this stuff or whatever, but the bottom line is guys like Clemens (total dbag), Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, ManRam and Palmeiro types are not getting voted in, at least not for awhile. People have already forgiven guys like Giambi, but for guys like Roger that want to act the victim and play the Rose card, it doesn't work.
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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