Torture question
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I do, mzweaselnose.
But your opinions are not yours, you parrot Heck, or you parrot your special mod,
or, you snipe.
And, you just aren't very smart. I feel sorry for ya.
If you had a tractor, I don't think you could find the steering wheel.
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I'm not 60. Should I have spelled out my age?
Tell ya what. Goooooooo Baaaaaaaaack, and reread
where Heck was wondering about ages.
And then, say you're sorry, which you sure the hell are.
Oh, lookee, mz the pussy has an immature pouty-pouty PHD ! WHOOPEE !
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Well, it looks like we tortured people, or ordered them to be tortured, in order to prove there was a link between Saddam and Al Qaeda. So we tortured people to get information that wasn't there.
It's clearly illegal to do this. Obviously you guys don't seem to have a problem with the illegality of it, so forget about that. Do you think we should be doing this?
Also, if someone might have information about an ongoing murder spree here in this country, should we torture that person to try and save those lives?
Well, it looks like we tortured people, or ordered them to be tortured, in order to prove there was a link between Saddam and Al Qaeda. So we tortured people to get information that wasn't there.
But it could also be phrased like we were trying to find out if there was a connection.
That knowledge would be extremely useful.
Also, if someone might have information about an ongoing murder spree here in this country, should we torture that person to try and save those lives?
Yes.
Remember the recent case out west somewhere?
A college girl is missing. Her blood is found in a known sexual predators car.
He's brought in for questioning and lawyers up tight as a clam.
How about you Heck? Say you care about her.
Here's the waterboard, we're going to lunch.
WSS
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Back to reality for a sec: the torture tales are getting ugly.
Gitmo general told Iraq WMD search team to torture
Itâs one thing if, as former Vice President Dick Cheney keeps saying, the United States brutally interrogated people to keep our kids safe from another strike by Osama bin Laden. If folks got tortured to provide a rationale for going to war with Iraq, though, that's a whole different story.
Recent news reports have suggested the possibility that the Bush administration might have endorsed torture to prove an Iraq-al Qaida link. And a recent report from the Senate Armed Services Committee shows that months after then-President Bush had declared Mission Accomplished in Iraq, an Army general working hand in glove with top administration officials tried, albeit unsuccessfully, to convince a unit charged with finding weapons of mass destruction to get tough on its prisoners.
In August and early September of 2003, Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, the man in charge of the Pentagonâs torture laboratory at Guantanamo Bay, was dispatched to Iraq, allegedly to Gitmoize operations there.
It seems to have worked, at least in one place. Soon after Miller visited with officials in charge of Abu Ghraib, guards there began to use working dogs, stress positions, extremely lengthy interrogations, isolation, yelling and nudity in order to try to wring information from prisoners -- all techniques that had been used at Guantanamo and that the world would later see in photos released from an investigation in to what had gone on at the prison.
But according to the Senate committee's report, before Miller met with the Abu Ghraib officials, he first made a little-known visit to the Iraq Survey Group, which was in charge of the hunt for WMDs in Iraq after the invasion.
Miller told the ISG they were ârunning a country clubâ by not getting tough on detainees, Chief Warrant Officer Brian Searcy, the ISG interrogation chief, told the Senate committee. Searcy said Miller suggested shackling detainees and forcing them to walk on gravel. Mike Kamin, another ISG official, told committee investigators that Miller recommended temperature manipulation and sleep deprivation.
Miller also told the ISGâs Maj. Gen. Keith Dayton that Daytonâs unit was ânot getting much out of these people,â and complained that the ISG hand not âbrokenâ their detainees psychologically. Miller offered to send along suggested techniques, Dayton recalled, that would âactually breakâ the prisoners.
Dayton demurred, saying his unit wasnât changing anything and that lawyers would have to carefully vet anything Miller suggested. The ISG generally balked. One of its debriefers threatened to resign if Miller got his way. After the cool reception, Miller appears to have dropped the effort with respect to the ISG.
On his return from Iraq, Miller was sent directly to the Pentagon to personally brief then-Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz and Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Steven Cambone.
When interviewed by the committee, Miller couldnât remember much about that visit. But in retrospect, it is pretty clear why the ISG wasnât âgetting muchâ out of their detainees on WMDs in Iraq: There werenât any. Though with enough abuse, the detainees probably would have claimed otherwise.
via here.
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@inspecta said:
Cal, seriously dude get an effin' grip on yourself.Weaslenose?
Telling somebody you feel sorry for them because they aren't very smart? Could you be any more condescending?
Again like I mentioned early, don't bitch about people making personal attacks against you when you are the absolute WORST offender of this.
It's very rare that I agree with mz the pussy,heck and Al as they are definitely more liberal than I am, and debating with them can be madening at times, but if you look at the threads of us debating yesterday we went 3,4 pages deep and never resorted to name calling. Why can't you do that? Is it from the fact that you live on a farm in the middle of nowhere therefore your social skills are severely lacking? I'm not trying to be a smartass, but offering it up as a serious reason as to why you act this way.
I just don't get it. Disagree all you want, but getting as nasty as you do does not serve your purpose one single bit.
Inspecta "Dude", no disrespect man, but you need to seriously start looking for a job and quit posting on here so much. Peace.
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No, Steve. I don't believe America should torture its own citizens. It's kinda, sorta unconstitutional, among other things.
I know I'm going out on a limb there, not wanting to green light a police state. But you know me - flouting convention.
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@inspecta said:
Well unlike you old fart I'm able to multitask.But thanks for your concern diehard, you are a true humanitarian. Can I donate money to the salvation army in your name? It's the least I can do for such compassion in a time like this.
This old fart will still kick your ass inspecta. Grow some gonads and get a job. Peace.
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Cal, seriously dude get an effin' grip on yourself.
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Same to you.
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Weaslenose?
Telling somebody you feel sorry for them because they aren't very smart? Could you be any more condescending?
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Right. He put me down for my age. It was a payback. Think about it.
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Again like I mentioned early, don't bitch about people making personal attacks against you when you are the absolute WORST offender of this.
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Well, you seem to have your nose out of joint. Have I called you names, made personal attacks vs you?
Have I given Steve or John or Steve or T any trouble?
Poetic justice. You don't personally attack me, I'm good with that.
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It's very rare that I agree with mz the pussy,heck and Al as they are definitely more liberal than I am, and debating with them can be madening at times, but if you look at the threads of us debating yesterday we went 3,4 pages deep and never resorted to name calling. Why can't you do that? Is it from the fact that you live on a farm in the middle of nowhere therefore your social skills are severely lacking? I'm not trying to be a smartass, but offering it up as a serious reason as to why you act this way.
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So, you are smarting off about farming? I'm not being social. That's real life. This caricature
online isn't me at all.
Yes, you are being a smartass, smartass.
Go back and read all the dipshit things mz the pussy has said to me for months. That's when the war started.
Now, I'm more conservative than you, I catch more hell.
Do this. go have a talk with mz the pussy, and tell him to stfu and leave me alone. Then,
watch at how I don't give him paybacks anymore.
He disses me for no reason, again and again blah blah blah.
Btw, Heck and Al do know a lot. But mz the pussy can't stand opinions he disagrees with. He's just chosen
myself and T and Steve as objects of his stupid putdowns.
I can payback forever. NOTE - I welcomed Shep back to the forum, I don't expect to argue with him
much at all. I'd like to discuss things too.
but to be hated simply because my opinions are pretty conservative, means I didn't start the fire.
You irratate me too, but do I call you out on it? NO. So, in conslusion. Shut up already.
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I just don't get it. Disagree all you want, but getting as nasty as you do does not serve your purpose one single bit.
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I don't get where you're coming from. Do you or do you not notice that Heck and mz the pussy started the name calling
long ago. Or, were you not here to see it start from the beginning?
I have declared two truces with mz the pussy on my own. Each time, he kept on and on and on.
So, I figure self defense poetic justice is justified.
Or, do you want to insult me and start a war with me, too? Feel left out or something?
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So your defense for your behavior is "they started it first!!!"
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Not defending. Just saying you are out of line. You are making the problem worse,
and I haven't been starting anything with you. HAVE I ???
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That's the same defense my 5 year old uses when I catch him blasting his brother.
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And your unwarranted whining is what our friends down the road beagle does.
Whines, just because he wants attention.
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Listen I'm not trying to start a war with you, but when you go ballistic on here with name calling what do you expect to accomplish exactly?
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well, I want mz the pussy to shut the hell up with giving me crap at every turn.
For no freakin reason. Maybe he'll listen to you. I think he does it because
he has his mod as a mod now.
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Unless your only point is to chicken shit around and kill time, but if that's the case then don't complain nobody takes you seriously and does nothing but attack you. You cultivate the treatment you receive. Very rarely on a message board does anybody receive treatment that they didn't bring on themselves.
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You are being dumb now. By your own statement, you are saying mz the pussy deserves the treatment I give him
because I don't take him seriously.
And, no, it is not rarely. It is common. Libs are allowed to have all sorts of opionions.
But conservatives get sh** on when they have opinions the libs don't like.
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That's not to say that you have never been attacked for sharing your views.
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Bout time you got up some objectivity goin. Thanks
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I think part of the problem is that when you are sharing your views on Obama or Pelosi or any other democrat, you call them every name in the book as opposed to just sticking to critiquing their actions. The libs on the board take it as personal attacks against them when you attack their hero so they attack you the person who has had the audacity to attack their beloved Obama.
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Okay, you're cookin now. Were you around when Bush was being called a murderer? When
our troops were being ridiculed by Murtha and a few libs agreed with him?
I don't defend Bush on much. But I won't stop until the crap stops.
Maybe you could work some magic. I've already humorously said I think I'll consider a truce
with mz the pussy. But, when it doesn't work, don't even come to me and start crap on my side alone.
Fair enough? The truce will start now.
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Perhaps I'm getting too deep with all this. I just would like to get everybody on the same page (sorta) and have debates without all the personal attacks. It seems too many threads go down the shitter because they devolve into mud slinging on BOTH sides.
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Well, you would have been better off calling me an asshat in a pm, and letting me know
you did the same to mz the pussy in another pm.
You would be surprised how easily I can revert to my more real life self.
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I've been guilty of this as well, I'm not completely innocent or trying to play the self righteous "You kids behave now!" role...
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It's too late. I hate you, I'm having to respond to all this and my thumb is killing me, dammit.I can type at lightning speed, but all I get now is gibberish.
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No, Steve. I don't believe America should torture its own citizens. It's kinda, sorta unconstitutional, among other things.
I know I'm going out on a limb there, not wanting to green light a police state. But you know me - flouting convention.
No, Steve. I don't believe America should torture its own citizens. It's kinda, sorta unconstitutional, among other things.
Fair enough.
Personally I find it hard to believe that you, knowing a loved one was missing and you had the perp in hand.....
Well you know.
(btw did you read that solitary confinement article a while back? Any outrage? Any call for hearings?)
I know I'm going out on a limb there, not wanting to green light a police state. But you know me - flouting convention.
Actually the limb is one of believablility.
And pointing out the 'constitution' a document more ignored twisted, improperly cited and changed for political gain than any since the Bible is quaint.
WSS
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True, Dan.
The sad fact is, suicide bombers flying airplanes into buildings to kill thousands
of Amrericans. or trying to nuke one of our cities is also against the law.
The UN won't protect us.
Do we have to choose between being legit and not waterboarding,
or Americans die?
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@danamal said:
Cal is a hardcore conservative who has no time or argument from anyone who differs from his opinion or his lord and master Limbaugh.Nothing wrong with being conservative but nothing is gained when you close your mind to anyone or anything but your own version of how things should be.
Besides he's a big poopyhead and im taking my marbles and going home!
Limbaugh has nothing to do with it, Dan.
There are things in this life that are right or wrong to each of us.
Don't you think there are places where compromise isn't called for?
WSS
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Cal is a hardcore conservative who has no time or argument from anyone who differs from his opinion or his lord and master Limbaugh.
Nothing wrong with being conservative but nothing is gained when you close your mind to anyone or anything but your own version of how things should be.
Besides he's a big poopyhead and im taking my marbles and going home! Dan
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ROF,LMAO !!!!!!
(somebody licks Obama's toes, I only parrot Limbaugh. Pick yer poison. LOL
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And Cal, sorry if you thought I was out of line Inpsecta
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Mind yer own business, hater.
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