Josh Cribbs Is Expected To Skip Browns Minicamp

[We need Tom Tupa]

@tobalaz said:

I'm not saying the guy doesn't deserve more cash, after all he's definetly been a top 5 returner and demon on coverage every season so far.

What I was saying is he took the big chunk up front and was happy with it until Hester got the big contract (and was ALSO moved to the #1 wr spot by the way), so given that I'd have to say play this season with what you've got since he JUST got this contract and ask for an adjustment depending on how your roll has expanded, if not, you're not going to get as much as you'd like and then you're going to piss and moan again next season.

The "big chunk up front" argument is complete bullshit until someone here shows that they have a clue how much he could have made by taking the other contract you are imagining.

He was happy with the contract until we started playing him at QB and RB. He took an okay contract for a return man. Then the WildDawg caught on. Now we are talking about playing him more at QB, RB, WR, DB... is that what he was signing a contract to do? Would you let your boss double your work load without asking for more money?

He gets one shot at this 10 year career and has to hope he doesnt get injured before that. He goes all out on every play for us and is now willing to take twice as many hits by lining up for more snaps. Paying him more is the right thing to do.

[We need Tom Tupa]

@sez.ej said:

I just don't believe in this..it has no honor.

If I hadnt read the rest of your post, I would have assumed you were referring to management reneging on the promises Savage made to him last year and Lerner may have made since.

[We need Tom Tupa]

@shepwrite said:

I hate this kind of stuff. Lerner directly told OBR he never had any kind of conversation with Cribbs about his contract, last year, this year... ever. Cribbs' agent says his client insists it happened. Sounds ugly.

Cribbs didn't have a huge year last year, not like 2007. It's the wrong time, in my opinion. I'd play this season under the new regime before I paint them into a corner.

Mangini has made it very, very clear that he regards Cribbs very highly. He'd like to find ways to let him put that value to work more on offense and/or defense. THEN he gets paid, if you ask me.

Unless he gets injured playing positions he isnt being paid to play. Or unless management cant see why he should make more in 2010 for doing the same thing he did in 2009. Or unless he takes your advice and takes the high road for a 3rd year in a row and gets screwed for the 3rd year in a row.

[Tobalaz]

@we-need-tom-tupa said:

The "big chunk up front" argument is complete bullshit until someone here shows that they have a clue how much he could have made by taking the other contract you are imagining.

He was happy with the contract until we started playing him at QB and RB. He took an okay contract for a return man. Then the WildDawg caught on. Now we are talking about playing him more at QB, RB, WR, DB... is that what he was signing a contract to do? Would you let your boss double your work load without asking for more money?

He gets one shot at this 10 year career and has to hope he doesnt get injured before that. He goes all out on every play for us and is now willing to take twice as many hits by lining up for more snaps. Paying him more is the right thing to do.

What other contract?

I never mentioned any other contract being offered to Cribbs.

Cribbs took a contract with 2 million upfront, guaranteed money and was HAPPY with it until Hester got the 40 million dollar deal with Chicago (which AGAIN, moved him to the #1 wr spot).

I don't know what other contracts might have been offered to Cribbs and never referenced them, please show me where I did.

[budcarson]

@tobalaz said:

I'm not saying the guy doesn't deserve more cash, after all he's definetly been a top 5 returner and demon on coverage every season so far.

What I was saying is he took the big chunk up front and was happy with it until Hester got the big contract (and was ALSO moved to the #1 wr spot by the way), so given that I'd have to say play this season with what you've got since he JUST got this contract and ask for an adjustment depending on how your roll has expanded, if not, you're not going to get as much as you'd like and then you're going to piss and moan again next season.

Are we talking about the same league? $2mil up front on a 6 year deal is not really a big chunk, and neither is devin hester a #1wr - regardless of their depth chart. those two deals aren't even in the same neighborhood.

[Tobalaz]

@budcarson said:

Are we talking about the same league? $2mil up front on a 6 year deal is not really a big chunk, and neither is devin hester a #1wr - regardless of their depth chart. those two deals aren't even in the same neighborhood.

No, Hester is not a #1 wr, but he was given that contract with the expectations to be their #1 wr.

Cribbs was given his contract strictly as a special teamer, and with his expanded role, yes, he deserves more.

I'm just saying if you just inked a deal don't go menstrual because you were happy with what you got until someone else got more.

[Riffer X]

There's been some damn good points made in this thread for both sides, but I think he should give one more season and if he's the major contributor we're planning on then he gets paid. I don't see how that's too much to ask.

Either that, or it's strictly based on incentives for this season. Regarding it being Lerner's money, it still affects the team and it's ability to function and also establishes precedent for other players to follow suit.

[We need Tom Tupa]

@tobalaz said:

What other contract?

I never mentioned any other contract being offered to Cribbs.

Cribbs took a contract with 2 million upfront, guaranteed money and was HAPPY with it until Hester got the 40 million dollar deal with Chicago (which AGAIN, moved him to the #1 wr spot).

I don't know what other contracts might have been offered to Cribbs and never referenced them, please show me where I did.

Ytown did on page 1. Sorry to confuse the two of you.

Again, Cribbs isnt just a return man anymore either. If he was, then this would be a different discussion. But he isnt asking for a penny more for his ST work. All he wants is incentives for his offensive work. If he doesnt get used a ton, then we dont pay him. Please help me understand what part of that you dont think is right. He shouldve known the WildDawg would catch on?

[Skinny]

@nebbrownsfan said:

How is Cribbs going to be elsewhere scoring TDs? He's under contract for 4 more years. He isn't going anywhere unless the front office chooses that route.

IMO Cribbs will probably get a new deal, AFTER this season. AFTER Mangini incorporates him more into the offense, and possibly defense. AFTER Mangini sees what else Cribbs can do for the Browns. But I have to agree with Kokinis' stance. Why should a new front office, for any team, be held liable for promises made by the outgoing regime? IF a promise was made by Lerner, then its Lerner treating Cribbs bad, not Mangini.

That is what i was thinking almost to a t. Also why would a new regime want to restructure anyone's contract until they see what they can do in the new schemes.

And if Cribbs is projected to get all this playing time wouldn't you wanna see what he is really worth so we aren't revisiting this come 2012. We wouldn't over pay or underpay. And everyone will be happy

[NebBrownsFan]

@we-need-tom-tupa said:

Ytown did on page 1. Sorry to confuse the two of you.

Again, Cribbs isnt just a return man anymore either. If he was, then this would be a different discussion. But he isnt asking for a penny more for his ST work. All he wants is incentives for his offensive work. If he doesnt get used a ton, then we dont pay him. Please help me understand what part of that you dont think is right. He shouldve known the WildDawg would catch on?

Where has it been reported what he wants? How do you know all he wants is incentives for his offensive work?

[budcarson]

@shepwrite said:

I hate this kind of stuff. Lerner directly told OBR he never had any kind of conversation with Cribbs about his contract, last year, this year... ever. Cribbs' agent says his client insists it happened. Sounds ugly.

It does look pretty bleak at the moment. If this goes much further, to follow taylor's account, it will be hard to get all of the toothpaste back into the tube and expect no hard feelings, if that's even still possible at this point.

[We need Tom Tupa]

@shepwrite said:

It's really rare that a returner is a game changer all year like Cribbs was in 2007. He wasn't last year. I almost hesitate to say this, because I really do love that guy... but I'd sure be a little edgy about throwing huge dollars at a special teams star. They seem to flame out, for the most part, which is why teams try to hard to fit them in as position players.

Hester got paid, but he's catching passes and becoming a WR much faster than Cribbs (51 for 665). And yeah... that deal still seems a little crazy to me.

I would consider giving Cribbs a new deal, but not for Hester money. I'm just saying.

I wouldnt give him huge dollars either. But I would give him a contract that ensured that he would be paid for any additional work on offense or defense. All incentives, which Taylor at OBR suggested yesterday was all that Cribbs was looking for.

[plumcrazy73]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

Cribbs Stalemate Escalates

Posted by Mike Florio on May 19, 2009, 6:25 a.m.

The contrast between the respective positions held by the Browns and receiver/kick returner Josh Cribbs has quickly become nearly as divisive as the question of whether Mike Vick should be reinstated.

Our own John Taylor of CFT has continued to smother this story for The Orange And Brown Report, and John’s Monday night entry shows two sides that are firmly entrenched as to the question of whether Browns owner Randy Lerner promised to address Cribbs’ contract.

The conflict between the versions provided by Lerner and Cribbs couldn’t be more clear. Cribbs apparently would swear under oath that Lerner promised after the regular-season finale to address the player’s contract; Lerner vehemently denies that any such commitment ever was made.

Lerner told Taylor by phone Monday night that “he has neither addressed Cribbs’ contract with the player personally, nor has he spoken to the player over the phone regarding his contract.”

Cribbs’ camp issued earlier in the evening the following statement: “We have incredible trust in our client, and we have cell phone records to back up that trust. After talking to Lerner [on the day of the season finale], [Cribbs] called [his agents], called his financial advisor, called numerous people, to let us know what he had just talked to Lerner about. . . . We aren’t trying to throw anybody under the bus, but we stand by the credibility of our client.”

The stalemate apparently crossed the proverbial Rubicon on Monday afternoon, when the Browns issued a statement denying reports that any promises had been made to Cribbs. His agents thereafter said that the team’s comments made Cribbs “look like a liar or a fabricator.”

On the surface, this problem is no different than the dispute between the Eagles and cornerback Sheldon Brown. The player signed a long-term deal, the player thinks he has outperformed the deal, and the team is content to point to the contract and remind the player that he signed the agreement without the barrel of a gun resting on either temple.

But this one has taken on a darker quality in light of the fact that Cribbs genuinely believes that the team promised to fix the situation. Though the verbal promises have no legally binding effect, Cribbs now believes not only that he has been lied to, but also that the team is going out of its way to paint him as the liar.

In our view, it’s a very risky way to run a football team, especially with a bunch of other guys who can identify with Cribbs watching and listening.

[choco]

just based on our current personnel...there's almost no way, barring injury, that cribbs sees time at WR.....

his numbers indicate he's a better RB....with JH and JD behind JL, again, barring injury.....

no CB slots left.....so maybe safety. which imo is a stretch as he's never played defense in the NFL. he's surely got the measureables, and some intangibles, but almost no instincts for the position. this is all speculation anway, as we dont know that he'll be taking on a heavier role here.

thats just my view, where does he fit in to get the additional playing time to fulfill and incentives based contract?

[hammertime]

All this talk about cribbs playing here playing there and how they should utilize his talent is a bit much.

Stand back and look at the big picture. Undrafted to a special team phenom. We've seen flashes of brillance at other spots but to commit to him finacially as a full time player seems a bit much when he's never seen time as a full time players since college.

Its not like he playing for free now. I think one more year before you make demands. Did Lerner promise him? Remember this, Cribbs may be a great player but he'll never be confused with a rocket scientist.

[ballpeen]

@we-need-tom-tupa said:

Unless he gets injured playing positions he isnt being paid to play. Or unless management cant see why he should make more in 2010 for doing the same thing he did in 2009. Or unless he takes your advice and takes the high road for a 3rd year in a row and gets screwed for the 3rd year in a row.

Part of the deal Tom.

Earlier you said this...

The alternative is that the money goes to Randy Lerner. Is that your concern? Are you worried about Lerner's wallet?

I agree with that. It doesn't really matter what we pay him as long as it fits into the cap.

However, I think it bad precedent for teams to keep redoing a players contract. It emboldens other players to think they can do the same.

I am all for fair, and as said earlier, I usually side with players in this sort of deal and do think Cribbs should be paid more. But again, he was pretty happy when we did the last one with no complaints.

My solution would be to amend the current contract to include reasonable, attainable incentives, assuming such provisions are allowed under the current contract..I wouldn't be very agreeable to any more signing bonus money.

He is unhappy with his pay schedule. I would keep it at that. No mention of being unhappy with his signing bonus was made.

[We need Tom Tupa]

@hammertime said:

All this talk about cribbs playing here playing there and how they should utilize his talent is a bit much.

Stand back and look at the big picture. Undrafted to a special team phenom. We've seen flashes of brillance at other spots but to commit to him finacially as a full time player seems a bit much when he's never seen time as a full time players since college.

Its not like he playing for free now. I think one more year before you make demands. Did Lerner promise him? Remember this, Cribbs may be a great player but he'll never be confused with a rocket scientist.

For the nth time, we arent talking about committing to him financially and then seeing him not make an impact. We are talking about adding incentives to his contract that would kick in IF he became more of a full-time player. Does anyone have a problem with this or are we going to just keep opposing fictional demands for guaranteed money?

He says Lerner called him on the phone. Lerner said he didnt call him on the phone. We arent talking about a misunderstanding. This is whether or not he ever got a phone call. I'm not a rocket scientist either, but I can usually tell who I'm talking to. Cribbs' agents also say that they have cell records to back him up and that he made several calls right after getting off the phone with Lerner to let his agents and financial people know that Lerner had made promises to him.

[We need Tom Tupa]

@ballpeen said:

Part of the deal Tom.

Earlier you said this...

I agree with that. It doesn't really matter what we pay him as long as it fits into the cap.

However, I think it bad precedent for teams to keep redoing a players contract. It emboldens other players to think they can do the same.

I am all for fair, and as said earlier, I usually side with players in this sort of deal and do think Cribbs should be paid more. But again, he was pretty happy when we did the last one with no complaints.

My solution would be to amend the current contract to include reasonable, attainable incentives, assuming such provisions are allowed under the current contract..I wouldn't be very agreeable to any more signing bonus money.

He is unhappy with his pay schedule. I would keep it at that. No mention of being unhappy with his signing bonus was made.

As far as I've seen, that's all he's asking for, and the Browns are offering him nothing.

As for the precedent, how about the precedent of making promises to your players, backing out of them, and then denying they were ever made? It's possible that Cribbs is the one lying, but it would be a pretty elaborate set-up considering how consistent his comments have been since Hester got his deal.

[hammertime]

@we-need-tom-tupa said:

For the nth time, we arent talking about committing to him financially and then seeing him not make an impact. We are talking about adding incentives to his contract that would kick in IF he became more of a full-time player. Does anyone have a problem with this or are we going to just keep opposing fictional demands for guaranteed money?

He says Lerner called him on the phone. Lerner said he didnt call him on the phone. We arent talking about a misunderstanding. This is whether or not he ever got a phone call. I'm not a rocket scientist either, but I can usually tell who I'm talking to. Cribbs' agents also say that they have cell records to back him up and that he made several calls right after getting off the phone with Lerner to let his agents and financial people know that Lerner had made promises to him.

You can add incentives, I call Lerner and had it approved. I have cell phone records to prove it.

[ATENEARS]

He's a dime-a-dozen, have we released him yet?