Josh Cribbs Is Expected To Skip Browns Minicamp

[Skinny]

@nebbrownsfan said:

How is Cribbs going to be elsewhere scoring TDs? He's under contract for 4 more years. He isn't going anywhere unless the front office chooses that route.

IMO Cribbs will probably get a new deal, AFTER this season. AFTER Mangini incorporates him more into the offense, and possibly defense. AFTER Mangini sees what else Cribbs can do for the Browns. But I have to agree with Kokinis' stance. Why should a new front office, for any team, be held liable for promises made by the outgoing regime? IF a promise was made by Lerner, then its Lerner treating Cribbs bad, not Mangini.

That is what i was thinking almost to a t. Also why would a new regime want to restructure anyone's contract until they see what they can do in the new schemes.

And if Cribbs is projected to get all this playing time wouldn't you wanna see what he is really worth so we aren't revisiting this come 2012. We wouldn't over pay or underpay. And everyone will be happy

[NebBrownsFan]

@we-need-tom-tupa said:

Ytown did on page 1. Sorry to confuse the two of you.

Again, Cribbs isnt just a return man anymore either. If he was, then this would be a different discussion. But he isnt asking for a penny more for his ST work. All he wants is incentives for his offensive work. If he doesnt get used a ton, then we dont pay him. Please help me understand what part of that you dont think is right. He shouldve known the WildDawg would catch on?

Where has it been reported what he wants? How do you know all he wants is incentives for his offensive work?

[budcarson]

@shepwrite said:

I hate this kind of stuff. Lerner directly told OBR he never had any kind of conversation with Cribbs about his contract, last year, this year... ever. Cribbs' agent says his client insists it happened. Sounds ugly.

It does look pretty bleak at the moment. If this goes much further, to follow taylor's account, it will be hard to get all of the toothpaste back into the tube and expect no hard feelings, if that's even still possible at this point.

[We need Tom Tupa]

@shepwrite said:

It's really rare that a returner is a game changer all year like Cribbs was in 2007. He wasn't last year. I almost hesitate to say this, because I really do love that guy... but I'd sure be a little edgy about throwing huge dollars at a special teams star. They seem to flame out, for the most part, which is why teams try to hard to fit them in as position players.

Hester got paid, but he's catching passes and becoming a WR much faster than Cribbs (51 for 665). And yeah... that deal still seems a little crazy to me.

I would consider giving Cribbs a new deal, but not for Hester money. I'm just saying.

I wouldnt give him huge dollars either. But I would give him a contract that ensured that he would be paid for any additional work on offense or defense. All incentives, which Taylor at OBR suggested yesterday was all that Cribbs was looking for.

[plumcrazy73]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

Cribbs Stalemate Escalates

Posted by Mike Florio on May 19, 2009, 6:25 a.m.

The contrast between the respective positions held by the Browns and receiver/kick returner Josh Cribbs has quickly become nearly as divisive as the question of whether Mike Vick should be reinstated.

Our own John Taylor of CFT has continued to smother this story for The Orange And Brown Report, and John’s Monday night entry shows two sides that are firmly entrenched as to the question of whether Browns owner Randy Lerner promised to address Cribbs’ contract.

The conflict between the versions provided by Lerner and Cribbs couldn’t be more clear. Cribbs apparently would swear under oath that Lerner promised after the regular-season finale to address the player’s contract; Lerner vehemently denies that any such commitment ever was made.

Lerner told Taylor by phone Monday night that “he has neither addressed Cribbs’ contract with the player personally, nor has he spoken to the player over the phone regarding his contract.”

Cribbs’ camp issued earlier in the evening the following statement: “We have incredible trust in our client, and we have cell phone records to back up that trust. After talking to Lerner [on the day of the season finale], [Cribbs] called [his agents], called his financial advisor, called numerous people, to let us know what he had just talked to Lerner about. . . . We aren’t trying to throw anybody under the bus, but we stand by the credibility of our client.”

The stalemate apparently crossed the proverbial Rubicon on Monday afternoon, when the Browns issued a statement denying reports that any promises had been made to Cribbs. His agents thereafter said that the team’s comments made Cribbs “look like a liar or a fabricator.”

On the surface, this problem is no different than the dispute between the Eagles and cornerback Sheldon Brown. The player signed a long-term deal, the player thinks he has outperformed the deal, and the team is content to point to the contract and remind the player that he signed the agreement without the barrel of a gun resting on either temple.

But this one has taken on a darker quality in light of the fact that Cribbs genuinely believes that the team promised to fix the situation. Though the verbal promises have no legally binding effect, Cribbs now believes not only that he has been lied to, but also that the team is going out of its way to paint him as the liar.

In our view, it’s a very risky way to run a football team, especially with a bunch of other guys who can identify with Cribbs watching and listening.

[choco]

just based on our current personnel...there's almost no way, barring injury, that cribbs sees time at WR.....

his numbers indicate he's a better RB....with JH and JD behind JL, again, barring injury.....

no CB slots left.....so maybe safety. which imo is a stretch as he's never played defense in the NFL. he's surely got the measureables, and some intangibles, but almost no instincts for the position. this is all speculation anway, as we dont know that he'll be taking on a heavier role here.

thats just my view, where does he fit in to get the additional playing time to fulfill and incentives based contract?

[hammertime]

All this talk about cribbs playing here playing there and how they should utilize his talent is a bit much.

Stand back and look at the big picture. Undrafted to a special team phenom. We've seen flashes of brillance at other spots but to commit to him finacially as a full time player seems a bit much when he's never seen time as a full time players since college.

Its not like he playing for free now. I think one more year before you make demands. Did Lerner promise him? Remember this, Cribbs may be a great player but he'll never be confused with a rocket scientist.

[ballpeen]

@we-need-tom-tupa said:

Unless he gets injured playing positions he isnt being paid to play. Or unless management cant see why he should make more in 2010 for doing the same thing he did in 2009. Or unless he takes your advice and takes the high road for a 3rd year in a row and gets screwed for the 3rd year in a row.

Part of the deal Tom.

Earlier you said this...

The alternative is that the money goes to Randy Lerner. Is that your concern? Are you worried about Lerner's wallet?

I agree with that. It doesn't really matter what we pay him as long as it fits into the cap.

However, I think it bad precedent for teams to keep redoing a players contract. It emboldens other players to think they can do the same.

I am all for fair, and as said earlier, I usually side with players in this sort of deal and do think Cribbs should be paid more. But again, he was pretty happy when we did the last one with no complaints.

My solution would be to amend the current contract to include reasonable, attainable incentives, assuming such provisions are allowed under the current contract..I wouldn't be very agreeable to any more signing bonus money.

He is unhappy with his pay schedule. I would keep it at that. No mention of being unhappy with his signing bonus was made.

[We need Tom Tupa]

@hammertime said:

All this talk about cribbs playing here playing there and how they should utilize his talent is a bit much.

Stand back and look at the big picture. Undrafted to a special team phenom. We've seen flashes of brillance at other spots but to commit to him finacially as a full time player seems a bit much when he's never seen time as a full time players since college.

Its not like he playing for free now. I think one more year before you make demands. Did Lerner promise him? Remember this, Cribbs may be a great player but he'll never be confused with a rocket scientist.

For the nth time, we arent talking about committing to him financially and then seeing him not make an impact. We are talking about adding incentives to his contract that would kick in IF he became more of a full-time player. Does anyone have a problem with this or are we going to just keep opposing fictional demands for guaranteed money?

He says Lerner called him on the phone. Lerner said he didnt call him on the phone. We arent talking about a misunderstanding. This is whether or not he ever got a phone call. I'm not a rocket scientist either, but I can usually tell who I'm talking to. Cribbs' agents also say that they have cell records to back him up and that he made several calls right after getting off the phone with Lerner to let his agents and financial people know that Lerner had made promises to him.

[We need Tom Tupa]

@ballpeen said:

Part of the deal Tom.

Earlier you said this...

I agree with that. It doesn't really matter what we pay him as long as it fits into the cap.

However, I think it bad precedent for teams to keep redoing a players contract. It emboldens other players to think they can do the same.

I am all for fair, and as said earlier, I usually side with players in this sort of deal and do think Cribbs should be paid more. But again, he was pretty happy when we did the last one with no complaints.

My solution would be to amend the current contract to include reasonable, attainable incentives, assuming such provisions are allowed under the current contract..I wouldn't be very agreeable to any more signing bonus money.

He is unhappy with his pay schedule. I would keep it at that. No mention of being unhappy with his signing bonus was made.

As far as I've seen, that's all he's asking for, and the Browns are offering him nothing.

As for the precedent, how about the precedent of making promises to your players, backing out of them, and then denying they were ever made? It's possible that Cribbs is the one lying, but it would be a pretty elaborate set-up considering how consistent his comments have been since Hester got his deal.

[hammertime]

@we-need-tom-tupa said:

For the nth time, we arent talking about committing to him financially and then seeing him not make an impact. We are talking about adding incentives to his contract that would kick in IF he became more of a full-time player. Does anyone have a problem with this or are we going to just keep opposing fictional demands for guaranteed money?

He says Lerner called him on the phone. Lerner said he didnt call him on the phone. We arent talking about a misunderstanding. This is whether or not he ever got a phone call. I'm not a rocket scientist either, but I can usually tell who I'm talking to. Cribbs' agents also say that they have cell records to back him up and that he made several calls right after getting off the phone with Lerner to let his agents and financial people know that Lerner had made promises to him.

You can add incentives, I call Lerner and had it approved. I have cell phone records to prove it.

[ATENEARS]

He's a dime-a-dozen, have we released him yet?

[ballpeen]

It is hard to discuss what was said.

Cribbs said we did. But what was actually said? We may have said we would look at it and he took that to mean we would do something about it. The language used in many cases is the key, and people have a tendency to hear what they want to hear in situations like this.

If we said we would look at it...maybe we have and he doesn't like the conclusion??

I don't know what was said so at this point I can't consider that unless something very definitive surfaces. All I can do is consider the facts as I see them, and right now it isn't much in favor of the course Cribbs and his agent have chosen.

[We need Tom Tupa]

@ballpeen said:

It is hard to discuss what was said.

Cribbs said we did. But what was actually said? We may have said we would look at it and he took that to mean we would do something about it. The language used in many cases is the key, and people have a tendency to hear what they want to hear in situations like this.

If we said we would look at it...maybe we have and he doesn't like the conclusion??

I don't know what was said so at this point I can't consider that unless something very definitive surfaces. All I can do is consider the facts as I see them, and right now it isn't much in favor of the course Cribbs and his agent have chosen.

John Taylor cites 4 sources now saying that Savage and Crennel made promises to Cribbs. And other sources saying that Cribbs got a call from Lerner right after the Pitt game. Lerner isnt disputing what was said on the phone; he's saying the call was never made. He's calling Cribbs and Taylor's sources liars. To me, this isnt a great way to treat a hard working player.

As for the course Cribbs has chosen, all he is asking for is some incentives in his deal that would pay out if he gets used a lot on offense. Can somebody, ANYBODY, please tell me what problem you have with this? And please address this current situation. I find it hard to believe there will be a negative precedent set here. Are we really worried that we will have many future STers start taking snaps at QB/RB and ask for incentives to be added to his current contract? I find it hard to believe that's a big concern. This is a very unique situation.

[Dan in Florida]

Who's Cribb's agent? And who else does he represent?

This may tell more!

[hammertime]

@we-need-tom-tupa said:

John Taylor cites 4 sources now saying that Savage and Crennel made promises to Cribbs. And other sources saying that Cribbs got a call from Lerner right after the Pitt game. Lerner isnt disputing what was said on the phone; he's saying the call was never made. He's calling Cribbs and Taylor's sources liars. To me, this isnt a great way to treat a hard working player.

As for the course Cribbs has chosen, all he is asking for is some incentives in his deal that would pay out if he gets used a lot on offense. Can somebody, ANYBODY, please tell me what problem you have with this? And please address this current situation. I find it hard to believe there will be a negative precedent set here. Are we really worried that we will have many future STers start taking snaps at QB/RB and ask for incentives to be added to his current contract? I find it hard to believe that's a big concern. This is a very unique situation.

Who's to say that his current contract doesn't includes money for extra playing time already? I don't think Mangini has any concrete plans for Cribbs anyways. He'll remain on special teams and be expected to continue his current role, I don't see Mangini inventing an offense tailored to Cribbs. Therefor a need for incentives isn't completely neccessary.

[Dan in Florida]

Cleveland Browns' Josh Cribbs to ask for trade

if Browns won't budge

by By Mary Kay Cabot

Tuesday May 19, 2009, 10:56 AM

Browns receiver Josh Cribbs will definitely ask to be traded if the Browns tell him they won't re-do his contract, multiple sources close to the situation said Tuesday.

As expected, Cribbs did not show up for the first day of voluntary minicamp Tuesday because there's been no "meaningful dialogue'' yet on a new contract.

Cribbs' agent, J.R. Rickert, said the Browns told him they might be willing to open discussions Tuesday.

"We exchanged emails Monday night, but there were no proposals made or numbers discussed,'' said Rickert. "We need to have some substantial talks for Josh to show up.''

Cribbs has four years remaining on the six-year, $6.7 million extension he signed in November of 2006 with his previous agents. His base salaries over the next four years are $620,000, $635,000, $650,000 and $790,000. The starting point for Cribbs' side is Devin Hester's four-year, $40 million extension with $15 million guaranteed.

Rickert said he also has phone records to prove that Browns owner Randy Lerner told Cribbs and his representatives that Cribbs would receive a new deal this offseason. Lerner has said he made no such promise.

A source said Cribbs is upset the Browns are denying such statements were made. Cribbs' absence is significant, because he's slated for key roles at strong safety and nickel corner.

link

[hammertime]

So much for incentives- he is asking for alot more than incentives.

Bye Josh its been real.

[choco]

strong safety and nickel corner.....

riiiiiiiight......

that says all i need to know.

[Dan in Florida]

@dan-in-florida said:

Who's Cribb's agent? And who else does he represent?

This may tell more!

To answer my own question (Cribbs' agent, J.R. Rickert), his client list:

Robbie Agnone.............Tight End.......................Washington Redskins

Lorenzo Alexander........Off/Def ........................Lineman Washington Redskins

Brandon Archer ...........Linebacker ....................Washington Redskins

JJ Arrington..................Running Back ................Denver Broncos

Jordan Babineaux ........Defensive Back ..............Seattle Seahawks

Correll Buckhalter.........Running Back ................Denver Broncos

Greg Camarillo.............Receiver .......................Miami Dolphins

Jeremy Clark...............Defensive Lineman .........New York Giants

Joshua Cribbs............Receiver/Returner ........Cleveland Browns

Jason Davis.................Fullback Chicago ............Bears

Marlon Davis.............Offensive Guard ...........Cleveland Browns

Jermichael Finley........*Tight End .......................Green Bay Packers

Dashon Goldson..........*Safety San ....................Francisco 49ers

Letroy Guion...............Defensive Lineman ..........Minnesota Vikings

William Hayes.............Defensive End ................ Tennessee Titans

Kyries Hebert..............Safety ............................Cincinnati Bengals

Artis Hicks..................Offensive Lineman ............Minnesota Vikings

Jamaal Jackson...........Center .............................Philadelphia Eagles

Ellis Lankster...............Cornerback .....................Buffalo Bills

Cleo Lemon................Quarterback .....................Jacksonville Jaguars

Nate Livings................Offensive Lineman ............Cincinnati Bengals

Tom Malone................Punter .............................New England Patriots

Ryan McBean..............Defensive Lineman ...........Denver Broncos

Brandon McDonald.....Defensive Back .............Cleveland Browns

Billy McMullen..............Receiver ..........................Seattle Seahawks

Sam McNaulty.............Offensive Lineman .............New Orleans Saints

Cam Morrah................Tight End ..........................Seattle Seahawks

Terrence Nunn.............Receiver ..........................New England Patriots

Chris Ogbannaya.........Running Back ...................St. Louis Rams

Samie Parker...............Receiver ..........................Oakland Raiders

Mike Patterson..............Defensive Tackle ..............Philadelphia Eagles

LaJuan Ramsey...........*Defensive Lineman ...........Tennessee Titans

Stefan Rodgers.............Offensive Lineman ............Jacksonville Jaguars

Frostee Rucker..............Defensive End .................Cincinnati Bengals

Joe Thomas..............*Offensive Lineman ..........Cleveland Browns

Jonathan Wade.............Cornerback ......................St. Louis Rams

Daniel Wilcox................Tight End .........................Baltimore Ravens

----------------------------------------

I think AGENTS see the Browns SAVED MONEY trading down and want the money.