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Josh Cribbs Is Expected To Skip Browns Minicamp

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  • W We need Tom Tupa

    @hammertime said:

    Hey tupa i thought i would chime in about 3 pages later.

    Is it now that lerner is just denying contract 'gaurantee's' over the phone with JC?

    You mentioned that JC is not mentaly Retarded, link? J/K, although his intelligence has been questioned, sorry no links on that.

    I really want this guy on the roster come gm 1, i just hope this agent isn't filling his head with granduer. You have taken quite a stand for this guy and he is what we want from all Browns except for this latest $$$$ BS.

    Welcome back.

    Lerner told OBR that he has never spoken with Cribbs over the phone regarding his contract at all.

    If this was out of the blue, I would probably be much more hesitant to side with Cribbs on this. But there have been consistent small comments about a coming reworking of his deal and now we are told that Savage and Crennel definitely made him promises.

    I wouldnt want to overpay for any player. But Cribbs is underpaid, was promised better, and I can't find a way to think management is treating him fairly unless I believe that he is a bold faced liar. Maybe he is. I admit, I dont know. But it would really surprise me. He at least deserves to be treated respectfully.

    @we-need-tom-tupa said:

    Welcome back.

    Lerner told OBR that he has never spoken with Cribbs over the phone regarding his contract at all.

    If this was out of the blue, I would probably be much more hesitant to side with Cribbs on this. But there have been consistent small comments about a coming reworking of his deal and now we are told that Savage and Crennel definitely made him promises.

    I wouldnt want to overpay for any player. But Cribbs is underpaid, was promised better, and I can't find a way to think management is treating him fairly unless I believe that he is a bold faced liar. Maybe he is. I admit, I dont know. But it would really surprise me. He at least deserves to be treated respectfully.

    So your saying this is a little like the movie Rudy. I wonder if the guys will say coach i want Josh to play for me. He's earned it. 😉

    guns don't kill kids-pitt bulls do.

  • Terry Pluto on the Cribbs situation:

    Q: Quick question about the Browns. Obviously, one of the more popular stories on the site right now is Josh Cribbs, his holding out for a new contract. Mary Kay Cabot just posted an update to that, saying if the club does not re-do his deal, he wants to be traded. Your thoughts on this developing story.

    Pluto: I wish Josh hadn't said that part of it, because I think he's created such goodwill here and everything. This is one of those "work it out" [situations]. Obviously, the Browns need him. Obviously, he loves playing here. It seems like nobody's loved being a Cleveland Brown of late more than Josh Cribbs.

    I don't know if his agent is thinking this is a way to get things moving, felt like they were being ignored. I do know this: Phil Savage was very interested in signing Cribbs to an extension. I mean, of course Phil's not here, but he was.

    And I think you can turn around and re-do this guy's contract some and make him happy. That doesn't mean you give him the store and everything he wants, but the new leadership, Kokinis and Mangini, they're smart enough guys to realize, "Look, we need Cribbs." It's not like they got excess talent here.

    This guy's been a good soldier. You know, in the NFL it's a little different than other places, where probably not a dime of his contract right now is guaranteed. Some of these guys are guaranteed for a year or two, but usually when you sign a contract, your signing bonus is guaranteed and maybe the first year of your salary.

    Now, for example, what the Browns did when they gave Shaun Rogers a new deal: he had three years left on the contract. They guaranteed those three years on that contract he owed the Lions, and they gave him three more years, but those years were not guaranteed.

    So they can probably guarantee him some money. You know, rework this - it's almost like a math problem. Get everybody together and do it. And my sense, at least I hope, is that Josh and his agent just want to get this done. They felt like they were kind of being ignored there, and he's an important guy. So let's figure this out.

    Because I'd hate to see him in this process kind of alienate some of the people. He's built up such goodwill and such a fan base and does so many charity things. You know, this franchise deseperately needs some players that you can identify with. And he was one of the few.

  • I ABSOLUTELY abide by any promise Lerner made to him, and I certainly dont treat him like shit publicly. I don't care what kind of tough guy rep Mangini wants to maintain. We have enough problems without building a permanent rift between players and management.

    The Cribbs situation will get ironed out and everyone will be happy. He signed for 6 years with $2 million up front, with his salaries he has made over $3.2 million in the two years. That isn't working for free or being underpaid. Now if he has to play out the contract then it is a crime, but as of now he hasn't been mistreated, especially if he gets a new contract done this year.

    But to mention anything about Mangini and him trying to maintain his tough guy rep is pure bullshit. How does Mangini get dragged into this? He isn't the owner or GM and he hasn't said shit about anything. Not a very credible statement if you wantyour argument to be taken serious.

  • Y YtownBrownsBacker

    I ABSOLUTELY abide by any promise Lerner made to him, and I certainly dont treat him like shit publicly. I don't care what kind of tough guy rep Mangini wants to maintain. We have enough problems without building a permanent rift between players and management.

    The Cribbs situation will get ironed out and everyone will be happy. He signed for 6 years with $2 million up front, with his salaries he has made over $3.2 million in the two years. That isn't working for free or being underpaid. Now if he has to play out the contract then it is a crime, but as of now he hasn't been mistreated, especially if he gets a new contract done this year.

    But to mention anything about Mangini and him trying to maintain his tough guy rep is pure bullshit. How does Mangini get dragged into this? He isn't the owner or GM and he hasn't said shit about anything. Not a very credible statement if you wantyour argument to be taken serious.

    @ytownbrownsbacker said:

    I ABSOLUTELY abide by any promise Lerner made to him, and I certainly dont treat him like shit publicly. I don't care what kind of tough guy rep Mangini wants to maintain. We have enough problems without building a permanent rift between players and management.

    The Cribbs situation will get ironed out and everyone will be happy. He signed for 6 years with $2 million up front, with his salaries he has made over $3.2 million in the two years. That isn't working for free or being underpaid. Now if he has to play out the contract then it is a crime, but as of now he hasn't been mistreated, especially if he gets a new contract done this year.

    But to mention anything about Mangini and him trying to maintain his tough guy rep is pure bullshit. How does Mangini get dragged into this? He isn't the owner or GM and he hasn't said shit about anything. Not a very credible statement if you wantyour argument to be taken serious.

    I appreciate that you and Neb want to discredit anything I say based on small phrases here or there, but you're really stretching it now. Kok was brought in as Mangini's guy. Mangini was hired first because Lerner wants the HC to run the show. Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs). To think that this situation has gotten where it is without Mangini is "pure bullshit". And this situation is a little to similar to some that occurred when he was with the Jets to just ignore that this might be a consistent MO for Mangini (as was noted in the very first post in this thread).

    Thanks for the attempt at a tangent though.

    ? Y N 3 Replies

  • no assumptions about the decision makers in that post at all.....

    it your opinion....we get it, and still dont care.

  • If you don't care, there is no need to respond.

    All of my posts are my opinion. That should go without saying. I dont know any of these people personally, and I'm not omniscient. Every article or source or assumption I am using can be found in this thread. I'm not going to footnote my posts to avoid having to explain that over and over again. If you want to know where I got something, ask or look yourself. If you have an opinion on Cribbs, post it. If you're just looking to criticize my posting style, you're wasting your time and mine.

    You just went out of your way to post on a football thread to what, insult a poster? I don't get it, really.

    chocoC 1 Reply

  • IMHO cribbs has outplayed his contract he is deserving of a base raise that should be full of lucrative incentives if he fares well as a SS and or a WR with the ability to renegotiate the base pay contract in a year if he meets certain criteria...

    Honestly i thought JC would be the last guy to hold out of voluntary camp but on the otherhand mankok needs to get this address this issue and get it resolved so cribbs is just pushing the point...i dont blame him. 😉

    We have been rebuilding since 1964, Why stop now? GO BROWNS!
  • W We need Tom Tupa

    @ytownbrownsbacker said:

    I ABSOLUTELY abide by any promise Lerner made to him, and I certainly dont treat him like shit publicly. I don't care what kind of tough guy rep Mangini wants to maintain. We have enough problems without building a permanent rift between players and management.

    The Cribbs situation will get ironed out and everyone will be happy. He signed for 6 years with $2 million up front, with his salaries he has made over $3.2 million in the two years. That isn't working for free or being underpaid. Now if he has to play out the contract then it is a crime, but as of now he hasn't been mistreated, especially if he gets a new contract done this year.

    But to mention anything about Mangini and him trying to maintain his tough guy rep is pure bullshit. How does Mangini get dragged into this? He isn't the owner or GM and he hasn't said shit about anything. Not a very credible statement if you wantyour argument to be taken serious.

    I appreciate that you and Neb want to discredit anything I say based on small phrases here or there, but you're really stretching it now. Kok was brought in as Mangini's guy. Mangini was hired first because Lerner wants the HC to run the show. Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs). To think that this situation has gotten where it is without Mangini is "pure bullshit". And this situation is a little to similar to some that occurred when he was with the Jets to just ignore that this might be a consistent MO for Mangini (as was noted in the very first post in this thread).

    Thanks for the attempt at a tangent though.

    @we-need-tom-tupa said:

    Kok was brought in as Mangini's guy. Mangini was hired first because Lerner wants the HC to run the show. Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs). To think that this situation has gotten where it is without Mangini is "pure bullshit".

    At the very least, Mangini has a strong voice in the decision-making process. Pioli-Belichick seems to be the model.

    Ironically, the same person who's saying Mangini has nothing to do with Cribbs' contract dispute also argued that the excitement over our draft disproved any concerns about Mangini. And before that said that Pioli shouldn't get any credit for the Patriots' good drafts because Belichick did everything. I guess the coach controls all personnel decisions relating to the draft but nothing after that.

    I just don't get the logic there. Maybe someone can explain it to me.

    Y 1 Reply

  • Rudy Rudy Rudy

    This now , officially has the stink of bad publicity for both.

    guns don't kill kids-pitt bulls do.
  • W We need Tom Tupa

    If you don't care, there is no need to respond.

    All of my posts are my opinion. That should go without saying. I dont know any of these people personally, and I'm not omniscient. Every article or source or assumption I am using can be found in this thread. I'm not going to footnote my posts to avoid having to explain that over and over again. If you want to know where I got something, ask or look yourself. If you have an opinion on Cribbs, post it. If you're just looking to criticize my posting style, you're wasting your time and mine.

    You just went out of your way to post on a football thread to what, insult a poster? I don't get it, really.

    @we-need-tom-tupa said:

    You just went out of your way to post on a football thread to what, insult a poster? I don't get it, really.

    im not tryin to insult ya tup.....just wasn't sure if you understood opinion from fact.

    my retort was to illustrate where you are going wrong...

    you say...

    " Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs)."

    if this is lerner position, as you say, then why on gods green earth are you assuming cribbs is the one being truthful. if lerner does not get involved in contracts, why would cribbs call him DIRECTLY? i haven't found anything stating that lerner has ever weighed in on contract negotiations.....it may indeed exist, but i just haven't saw it. considering cribbs has a new greedy agent, i have a hard time believe his camp at all.

    somone aint stirrin the kool-aide.....

  • chocoC choco

    @we-need-tom-tupa said:

    You just went out of your way to post on a football thread to what, insult a poster? I don't get it, really.

    im not tryin to insult ya tup.....just wasn't sure if you understood opinion from fact.

    my retort was to illustrate where you are going wrong...

    you say...

    " Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs)."

    if this is lerner position, as you say, then why on gods green earth are you assuming cribbs is the one being truthful. if lerner does not get involved in contracts, why would cribbs call him DIRECTLY? i haven't found anything stating that lerner has ever weighed in on contract negotiations.....it may indeed exist, but i just haven't saw it. considering cribbs has a new greedy agent, i have a hard time believe his camp at all.

    somone aint stirrin the kool-aide.....

    @choco said:

    im not tryin to insult ya tup.....just wasn't sure if you understood opinion from fact.

    my retort was to illustrate where you are going wrong...

    you say...

    " Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs)."

    if this is lerner position, as you say, then why on gods green earth are you assuming cribbs is the one being truthful. if lerner does not get involved in contracts, why would cribbs call him DIRECTLY? i haven't found anything stating that lerner has ever weighed in on contract negotiations.....it may indeed exist, but i just haven't saw it. considering cribbs has a new greedy agent, i have a hard time believe his camp at all.

    somone aint stirrin the kool-aide.....

    I dont think Cribbs is claiming that he called Lerner, he says Lerner called him. And I've discussed why I believe Cribbs over Lerner several times, meaning that I have explained why I hold the opinion that I do. In fact, I have stated that it is possible that Cribbs is lying. Clearly I'm not claiming fact where there is none.

    As for Lerner's claim that he never weighs in on contracts, I believe him in general. But there was no front office for several weeks and there were players looking for assurances that they wouldnt be forgotten. It would surprise me if Lerner just stonewalled everyone until Mankok was in place.

    What I took to be a wasted attempt at an insult was "we get it, and still don't care". Did that have anything to do with the thread? No, it was just a strange shot at me. I still don't know why you waste your time on things you dont care about. Are you punishing yourself?

  • W We need Tom Tupa

    @ytownbrownsbacker said:

    I ABSOLUTELY abide by any promise Lerner made to him, and I certainly dont treat him like shit publicly. I don't care what kind of tough guy rep Mangini wants to maintain. We have enough problems without building a permanent rift between players and management.

    The Cribbs situation will get ironed out and everyone will be happy. He signed for 6 years with $2 million up front, with his salaries he has made over $3.2 million in the two years. That isn't working for free or being underpaid. Now if he has to play out the contract then it is a crime, but as of now he hasn't been mistreated, especially if he gets a new contract done this year.

    But to mention anything about Mangini and him trying to maintain his tough guy rep is pure bullshit. How does Mangini get dragged into this? He isn't the owner or GM and he hasn't said shit about anything. Not a very credible statement if you wantyour argument to be taken serious.

    I appreciate that you and Neb want to discredit anything I say based on small phrases here or there, but you're really stretching it now. Kok was brought in as Mangini's guy. Mangini was hired first because Lerner wants the HC to run the show. Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs). To think that this situation has gotten where it is without Mangini is "pure bullshit". And this situation is a little to similar to some that occurred when he was with the Jets to just ignore that this might be a consistent MO for Mangini (as was noted in the very first post in this thread).

    Thanks for the attempt at a tangent though.

    @we-need-tom-tupa said:

    I appreciate that you and Neb want to discredit anything I say based on small phrases here or there, but you're really stretching it now. Kok was brought in as Mangini's guy. Mangini was hired first because Lerner wants the HC to run the show. Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs). To think that this situation has gotten where it is without Mangini is "pure bullshit". And this situation is a little to similar to some that occurred when he was with the Jets to just ignore that this might be a consistent MO for Mangini (as was noted in the very first post in this thread).

    Thanks for the attempt at a tangent though.

    Your opinion about Cribbs and his contract has merit and I never said it didn't. Personally, I think he got money up front, guaranteed and should have to abide by more then two years of the contract. I'm not saying hold him hostage for 4 more years and I was the one that said I'd be fine with adding some roster bonuses and incentive money, but no new contract.

    But, talking about Mangini and his hard ass ways is, as you put it, pure bullshit. This is another Savage mess and time will tell what Lerner and Cribbs did or did not talk about. Why diss Mangini and call him a hard ass? Seems that many of his players followed him and don't think he is unfair.

  • ? Guest

    @we-need-tom-tupa said:

    Kok was brought in as Mangini's guy. Mangini was hired first because Lerner wants the HC to run the show. Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs). To think that this situation has gotten where it is without Mangini is "pure bullshit".

    At the very least, Mangini has a strong voice in the decision-making process. Pioli-Belichick seems to be the model.

    Ironically, the same person who's saying Mangini has nothing to do with Cribbs' contract dispute also argued that the excitement over our draft disproved any concerns about Mangini. And before that said that Pioli shouldn't get any credit for the Patriots' good drafts because Belichick did everything. I guess the coach controls all personnel decisions relating to the draft but nothing after that.

    I just don't get the logic there. Maybe someone can explain it to me.

    Aloysius said:

    At the very least, Mangini has a strong voice in the decision-making process. Pioli-Belichick seems to be the model.

    Ironically, the same person who's saying Mangini has nothing to do with Cribbs' contract dispute also argued that the excitement over our draft disproved any concerns about Mangini. And before that said that Pioli shouldn't get any credit for the Patriots' good drafts because Belichick did everything. I guess the coach controls all personnel decisions relating to the draft but nothing after that.

    I just don't get the logic there. Maybe someone can explain it to me.

    Here's an explanation; any time someone takes a shit that smells in Berea Mangini is called an asshole or a hard ass. Come on, this was a Savage and RAC problem and maybe Lerner or not Lerner, only time will tell. It's not fair to say the problem is there because Mangini is a hard ass. Yes, I believe he and Kokinis are tied at the hip as Pioli and Belichick were tied at the hip, but Cribbs's agent has not said one word about Mangini, he has tried to start to get talks going with Kokinis.

    Personally, something will get done as long as everybody involved are reasonable. I am sure Mangini will have a say. But one thing you need to understand is Kokinis isn't on strings being controlled by Mangini. He has a big voice and is way more involved in contracts then Mangini will ever be. Mangini looks at talent and requests signings but he doesn't dictate contracts to the FO. They may ask him how important the signing is to the team and discuss a ballpark salary but in no way does Mangini decide contracts.

    I know personally that he wanted to get rid of a guy and Kokinis said no because of the salary ramifications. He also wanted Milloy before the draft and Kokinis said no, wait until after the draft and see where they were with the Safety position and cap money. So, I personally don't believe Mangini has anything (so far) to do with the Cribbs contract mess. So, why diss Mangini because Cribbs isn't happy with a contract he signed 2 years ago and was promised a redo by guys who aren't around.

    One thing to remember here is beside Cribbs, Dawson and Jackson want new contracts or extensions and they have to sign all there draft picks. You can't get this all done by the end of May. The business side of football sucks, but is Mangini an asshole because Dawson and Jackson aren't happy either.

  • W We need Tom Tupa

    @ytownbrownsbacker said:

    I ABSOLUTELY abide by any promise Lerner made to him, and I certainly dont treat him like shit publicly. I don't care what kind of tough guy rep Mangini wants to maintain. We have enough problems without building a permanent rift between players and management.

    The Cribbs situation will get ironed out and everyone will be happy. He signed for 6 years with $2 million up front, with his salaries he has made over $3.2 million in the two years. That isn't working for free or being underpaid. Now if he has to play out the contract then it is a crime, but as of now he hasn't been mistreated, especially if he gets a new contract done this year.

    But to mention anything about Mangini and him trying to maintain his tough guy rep is pure bullshit. How does Mangini get dragged into this? He isn't the owner or GM and he hasn't said shit about anything. Not a very credible statement if you wantyour argument to be taken serious.

    I appreciate that you and Neb want to discredit anything I say based on small phrases here or there, but you're really stretching it now. Kok was brought in as Mangini's guy. Mangini was hired first because Lerner wants the HC to run the show. Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs). To think that this situation has gotten where it is without Mangini is "pure bullshit". And this situation is a little to similar to some that occurred when he was with the Jets to just ignore that this might be a consistent MO for Mangini (as was noted in the very first post in this thread).

    Thanks for the attempt at a tangent though.

    @we-need-tom-tupa said:

    I appreciate that you and Neb want to discredit anything I say based on small phrases here or there, but you're really stretching it now. Kok was brought in as Mangini's guy. Mangini was hired first because Lerner wants the HC to run the show. Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs). To think that this situation has gotten where it is without Mangini is "pure bullshit". And this situation is a little to similar to some that occurred when he was with the Jets to just ignore that this might be a consistent MO for Mangini (as was noted in the very first post in this thread).

    Thanks for the attempt at a tangent though.

    Oh woe is me....cry me a freakin river. I haven't discredited everything you say. I even agreed on some points. I just totally disagree with you on backing Cribbs wholeheartedly based on a lot of "sources". You also posted outright misinformation at least twice. So god forbid someone point that out. I still stand by my post that dissing Mangini is bullshit. His name has yet to come up in these reports.

    Back on topic...as I said, I'm all for Cribbs getting incentives into his contract, IF Cribbs is just looking for incentives. But with a new agent who won't get paid by just adding incentives, I just don't see that as his position. IMO he's wanting new guaranteed money and more per year, based on an EXPECTED expanded role. Thus I disagree with the method he is using to try to force the team into giving in, a method in which he has no leverage whatsoever.

  • N NebBrownsFan

    @we-need-tom-tupa said:

    I appreciate that you and Neb want to discredit anything I say based on small phrases here or there, but you're really stretching it now. Kok was brought in as Mangini's guy. Mangini was hired first because Lerner wants the HC to run the show. Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs). To think that this situation has gotten where it is without Mangini is "pure bullshit". And this situation is a little to similar to some that occurred when he was with the Jets to just ignore that this might be a consistent MO for Mangini (as was noted in the very first post in this thread).

    Thanks for the attempt at a tangent though.

    Oh woe is me....cry me a freakin river. I haven't discredited everything you say. I even agreed on some points. I just totally disagree with you on backing Cribbs wholeheartedly based on a lot of "sources". You also posted outright misinformation at least twice. So god forbid someone point that out. I still stand by my post that dissing Mangini is bullshit. His name has yet to come up in these reports.

    Back on topic...as I said, I'm all for Cribbs getting incentives into his contract, IF Cribbs is just looking for incentives. But with a new agent who won't get paid by just adding incentives, I just don't see that as his position. IMO he's wanting new guaranteed money and more per year, based on an EXPECTED expanded role. Thus I disagree with the method he is using to try to force the team into giving in, a method in which he has no leverage whatsoever.

    @nebbrownsfan said:

    Thus I disagree with the method he is using to try to force the team into giving in, a method in which he has no leverage whatsoever.

    Hence why Cribbs and his agent took this situation to the media. Because getting fan support for Cribbs could give Cribbs and his agent some leverage.

  • I welcome anyone to show me where i used the word ass in reference to anyone in the Browns organization. The same goes for asshole or hardass. Show it to me and I will apologize to you and cede whatever point it is you think you are making. If not, let me stomp out the fire on your straw man and move past this bullshit (I use that word because it seems to have become an obligatory part of these posts at this point). As part of a string of hypotheticals, I said that I wouldn't treat Cribbs poorly to protect Mangini's attempt at establishing a rep as a tough coach. Elsewhere on this thread, and on PFT.com, others have allooded to the fact that he has a history of players getting into extremely similar situations. I was not pulling it out of thin air, I was attempting to address all the possibilities in my list of hypatheticals. I was not "dissing" Mangini (although seeing the word used so many times was pretty funny, thanks). I'm sorry if I offended you by not labeling the post with a disclaimer. At this point I'm willing to add one to all my posts so I can talk football and not argue semantacs on football threads. Just tell me what I need to put there to help you out, and I'll do it.

    Anyway, it seems like you agree with the opinion I gave 2 days ago and again yesterday. He is entitled to have incentives added to his deal. If Lerner promised him more, then he should get more. Other than that, he just deserves to be dealt with honestly. I'll leave the thread to you now. I misspelled some words so you can spend some time patting each other on the back for catching it (there are at least 3, in case you're wondering).

    N B Y 3 Replies
  • W We need Tom Tupa

    I welcome anyone to show me where i used the word ass in reference to anyone in the Browns organization. The same goes for asshole or hardass. Show it to me and I will apologize to you and cede whatever point it is you think you are making. If not, let me stomp out the fire on your straw man and move past this bullshit (I use that word because it seems to have become an obligatory part of these posts at this point). As part of a string of hypotheticals, I said that I wouldn't treat Cribbs poorly to protect Mangini's attempt at establishing a rep as a tough coach. Elsewhere on this thread, and on PFT.com, others have allooded to the fact that he has a history of players getting into extremely similar situations. I was not pulling it out of thin air, I was attempting to address all the possibilities in my list of hypatheticals. I was not "dissing" Mangini (although seeing the word used so many times was pretty funny, thanks). I'm sorry if I offended you by not labeling the post with a disclaimer. At this point I'm willing to add one to all my posts so I can talk football and not argue semantacs on football threads. Just tell me what I need to put there to help you out, and I'll do it.

    Anyway, it seems like you agree with the opinion I gave 2 days ago and again yesterday. He is entitled to have incentives added to his deal. If Lerner promised him more, then he should get more. Other than that, he just deserves to be dealt with honestly. I'll leave the thread to you now. I misspelled some words so you can spend some time patting each other on the back for catching it (there are at least 3, in case you're wondering).

    @we-need-tom-tupa said:

    I welcome anyone to show me where i used the word ass in reference to anyone in the Browns organization. The same goes for asshole or hardass. Show it to me and I will apologize to you and cede whatever point it is you think you are making. If not, let me stomp out the fire on your straw man and move past this bullshit (I use that word because it seems to have become an obligatory part of these posts at this point). As part of a string of hypotheticals, I said that I wouldn't treat Cribbs poorly to protect Mangini's attempt at establishing a rep as a tough coach. Elsewhere on this thread, and on PFT.com, others have allooded to the fact that he has a history of players getting into extremely similar situations. I was not pulling it out of thin air, I was attempting to address all the possibilities in my list of hypatheticals. I was not "dissing" Mangini (although seeing the word used so many times was pretty funny, thanks). I'm sorry if I offended you by not labeling the post with a disclaimer. At this point I'm willing to add one to all my posts so I can talk football and not argue semantacs on football threads. Just tell me what I need to put there to help you out, and I'll do it.

    Anyway, it seems like you agree with the opinion I gave 2 days ago and again yesterday. He is entitled to have incentives added to his deal. If Lerner promised him more, then he should get more. Other than that, he just deserves to be dealt with honestly. I'll leave the thread to you now. I misspelled some words so you can spend some time patting each other on the back for catching it (there are at least 3, in case you're wondering).

    Awww....poor Tom...everybody is ganging up on me....lol Go back and read the things you post as opposed to how you're trying to explain them now. Big difference. Sorta like how Lerner never called Cribbs....oops, my bad, never talked about contract on the phone. Or how this owner has gone through 5 coaches...ooops, except it wasn't this owner and we're only on the 4th coach now. Dude, you post a number of things and backtrack to explain what wasn't said in your original posting. Why is that?

    B 1 Reply

  • @shepwrite said:

    I agree with Toop: Should be a lot of if-then in the deal, escalators added to the existing base for defensive or offense plays and performance there AND as a kick/punt returner.

    He'll want some cash. Every player does. The Browns could toss him $6 mill upfront on 4 years for sure.

    Just to get a few other players deciding they want more up-front money based on expected expanded roles on the team. No thanks. Incentives, yes. But nothing more up-front until he is used more consistently in these expanded roles.

  • W We need Tom Tupa

    I welcome anyone to show me where i used the word ass in reference to anyone in the Browns organization. The same goes for asshole or hardass. Show it to me and I will apologize to you and cede whatever point it is you think you are making. If not, let me stomp out the fire on your straw man and move past this bullshit (I use that word because it seems to have become an obligatory part of these posts at this point). As part of a string of hypotheticals, I said that I wouldn't treat Cribbs poorly to protect Mangini's attempt at establishing a rep as a tough coach. Elsewhere on this thread, and on PFT.com, others have allooded to the fact that he has a history of players getting into extremely similar situations. I was not pulling it out of thin air, I was attempting to address all the possibilities in my list of hypatheticals. I was not "dissing" Mangini (although seeing the word used so many times was pretty funny, thanks). I'm sorry if I offended you by not labeling the post with a disclaimer. At this point I'm willing to add one to all my posts so I can talk football and not argue semantacs on football threads. Just tell me what I need to put there to help you out, and I'll do it.

    Anyway, it seems like you agree with the opinion I gave 2 days ago and again yesterday. He is entitled to have incentives added to his deal. If Lerner promised him more, then he should get more. Other than that, he just deserves to be dealt with honestly. I'll leave the thread to you now. I misspelled some words so you can spend some time patting each other on the back for catching it (there are at least 3, in case you're wondering).

    @we-need-tom-tupa said:

    I welcome anyone to show me where i used the word ass in reference to anyone in the Browns organization. The same goes for asshole or hardass. Show it to me and I will apologize to you and cede whatever point it is you think you are making. If not, let me stomp out the fire on your straw man and move past this bullshit (I use that word because it seems to have become an obligatory part of these posts at this point). As part of a string of hypotheticals, I said that I wouldn't treat Cribbs poorly to protect Mangini's attempt at establishing a rep as a tough coach. Elsewhere on this thread, and on PFT.com, others have allooded to the fact that he has a history of players getting into extremely similar situations. I was not pulling it out of thin air, I was attempting to address all the possibilities in my list of hypatheticals. I was not "dissing" Mangini (although seeing the word used so many times was pretty funny, thanks). I'm sorry if I offended you by not labeling the post with a disclaimer. At this point I'm willing to add one to all my posts so I can talk football and not argue semantacs on football threads. Just tell me what I need to put there to help you out, and I'll do it.

    Anyway, it seems like you agree with the opinion I gave 2 days ago and again yesterday. He is entitled to have incentives added to his deal. If Lerner promised him more, then he should get more. Other than that, he just deserves to be dealt with honestly. I'll leave the thread to you now. I misspelled some words so you can spend some time patting each other on the back for catching it (there are at least 3, in case you're wondering).

    Creed your teeth called your breath stinks. Boom roasted.

  • N NebBrownsFan

    @we-need-tom-tupa said:

    I welcome anyone to show me where i used the word ass in reference to anyone in the Browns organization. The same goes for asshole or hardass. Show it to me and I will apologize to you and cede whatever point it is you think you are making. If not, let me stomp out the fire on your straw man and move past this bullshit (I use that word because it seems to have become an obligatory part of these posts at this point). As part of a string of hypotheticals, I said that I wouldn't treat Cribbs poorly to protect Mangini's attempt at establishing a rep as a tough coach. Elsewhere on this thread, and on PFT.com, others have allooded to the fact that he has a history of players getting into extremely similar situations. I was not pulling it out of thin air, I was attempting to address all the possibilities in my list of hypatheticals. I was not "dissing" Mangini (although seeing the word used so many times was pretty funny, thanks). I'm sorry if I offended you by not labeling the post with a disclaimer. At this point I'm willing to add one to all my posts so I can talk football and not argue semantacs on football threads. Just tell me what I need to put there to help you out, and I'll do it.

    Anyway, it seems like you agree with the opinion I gave 2 days ago and again yesterday. He is entitled to have incentives added to his deal. If Lerner promised him more, then he should get more. Other than that, he just deserves to be dealt with honestly. I'll leave the thread to you now. I misspelled some words so you can spend some time patting each other on the back for catching it (there are at least 3, in case you're wondering).

    Awww....poor Tom...everybody is ganging up on me....lol Go back and read the things you post as opposed to how you're trying to explain them now. Big difference. Sorta like how Lerner never called Cribbs....oops, my bad, never talked about contract on the phone. Or how this owner has gone through 5 coaches...ooops, except it wasn't this owner and we're only on the 4th coach now. Dude, you post a number of things and backtrack to explain what wasn't said in your original posting. Why is that?

    @nebbrownsfan said:

    Awww....poor Tom...everybody is ganging up on me....lol Go back and read the things you post as opposed to how you're trying to explain them now. Big difference. Sorta like how Lerner never called Cribbs....oops, my bad, never talked about contract on the phone. Or how this owner has gone through 5 coaches...ooops, except it wasn't this owner and we're only on the 4th coach now. Dude, you post a number of things and backtrack to explain what wasn't said in your original posting. Why is that?

    I'm sorry, as long as we are rehashing all of our zingers from yesterday... How is it that it matters whether he said the call never happened or that he didnt talk about the contract on the phone? For Lerner to come out and say either one directly is him saying: "Josh Cribbs is not telling the truth." How does that help the situation at all?

    Was the number of coaches really the thrust of his argument? Or was it that the ownership is as culpable if not more so than one player when deciding why the team has yet to win a super bowl? All of your arguments have to do with nuance rather than substance. Try advancing the conversation for once.

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