Josh Cribbs Is Expected To Skip Browns Minicamp
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I ABSOLUTELY abide by any promise Lerner made to him, and I certainly dont treat him like shit publicly. I don't care what kind of tough guy rep Mangini wants to maintain. We have enough problems without building a permanent rift between players and management.
The Cribbs situation will get ironed out and everyone will be happy. He signed for 6 years with $2 million up front, with his salaries he has made over $3.2 million in the two years. That isn't working for free or being underpaid. Now if he has to play out the contract then it is a crime, but as of now he hasn't been mistreated, especially if he gets a new contract done this year.
But to mention anything about Mangini and him trying to maintain his tough guy rep is pure bullshit. How does Mangini get dragged into this? He isn't the owner or GM and he hasn't said shit about anything. Not a very credible statement if you wantyour argument to be taken serious.
I appreciate that you and Neb want to discredit anything I say based on small phrases here or there, but you're really stretching it now. Kok was brought in as Mangini's guy. Mangini was hired first because Lerner wants the HC to run the show. Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs). To think that this situation has gotten where it is without Mangini is "pure bullshit". And this situation is a little to similar to some that occurred when he was with the Jets to just ignore that this might be a consistent MO for Mangini (as was noted in the very first post in this thread).
Thanks for the attempt at a tangent though.
I appreciate that you and Neb want to discredit anything I say based on small phrases here or there, but you're really stretching it now. Kok was brought in as Mangini's guy. Mangini was hired first because Lerner wants the HC to run the show. Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs). To think that this situation has gotten where it is without Mangini is "pure bullshit". And this situation is a little to similar to some that occurred when he was with the Jets to just ignore that this might be a consistent MO for Mangini (as was noted in the very first post in this thread).
Thanks for the attempt at a tangent though.
Your opinion about Cribbs and his contract has merit and I never said it didn't. Personally, I think he got money up front, guaranteed and should have to abide by more then two years of the contract. I'm not saying hold him hostage for 4 more years and I was the one that said I'd be fine with adding some roster bonuses and incentive money, but no new contract.
But, talking about Mangini and his hard ass ways is, as you put it, pure bullshit. This is another Savage mess and time will tell what Lerner and Cribbs did or did not talk about. Why diss Mangini and call him a hard ass? Seems that many of his players followed him and don't think he is unfair.
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Kok was brought in as Mangini's guy. Mangini was hired first because Lerner wants the HC to run the show. Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs). To think that this situation has gotten where it is without Mangini is "pure bullshit".
At the very least, Mangini has a strong voice in the decision-making process. Pioli-Belichick seems to be the model.
Ironically, the same person who's saying Mangini has nothing to do with Cribbs' contract dispute also argued that the excitement over our draft disproved any concerns about Mangini. And before that said that Pioli shouldn't get any credit for the Patriots' good drafts because Belichick did everything. I guess the coach controls all personnel decisions relating to the draft but nothing after that.
I just don't get the logic there. Maybe someone can explain it to me.
Aloysius said:
At the very least, Mangini has a strong voice in the decision-making process. Pioli-Belichick seems to be the model.Ironically, the same person who's saying Mangini has nothing to do with Cribbs' contract dispute also argued that the excitement over our draft disproved any concerns about Mangini. And before that said that Pioli shouldn't get any credit for the Patriots' good drafts because Belichick did everything. I guess the coach controls all personnel decisions relating to the draft but nothing after that.
I just don't get the logic there. Maybe someone can explain it to me.
Here's an explanation; any time someone takes a shit that smells in Berea Mangini is called an asshole or a hard ass. Come on, this was a Savage and RAC problem and maybe Lerner or not Lerner, only time will tell. It's not fair to say the problem is there because Mangini is a hard ass. Yes, I believe he and Kokinis are tied at the hip as Pioli and Belichick were tied at the hip, but Cribbs's agent has not said one word about Mangini, he has tried to start to get talks going with Kokinis.
Personally, something will get done as long as everybody involved are reasonable. I am sure Mangini will have a say. But one thing you need to understand is Kokinis isn't on strings being controlled by Mangini. He has a big voice and is way more involved in contracts then Mangini will ever be. Mangini looks at talent and requests signings but he doesn't dictate contracts to the FO. They may ask him how important the signing is to the team and discuss a ballpark salary but in no way does Mangini decide contracts.
I know personally that he wanted to get rid of a guy and Kokinis said no because of the salary ramifications. He also wanted Milloy before the draft and Kokinis said no, wait until after the draft and see where they were with the Safety position and cap money. So, I personally don't believe Mangini has anything (so far) to do with the Cribbs contract mess. So, why diss Mangini because Cribbs isn't happy with a contract he signed 2 years ago and was promised a redo by guys who aren't around.
One thing to remember here is beside Cribbs, Dawson and Jackson want new contracts or extensions and they have to sign all there draft picks. You can't get this all done by the end of May. The business side of football sucks, but is Mangini an asshole because Dawson and Jackson aren't happy either.
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I ABSOLUTELY abide by any promise Lerner made to him, and I certainly dont treat him like shit publicly. I don't care what kind of tough guy rep Mangini wants to maintain. We have enough problems without building a permanent rift between players and management.
The Cribbs situation will get ironed out and everyone will be happy. He signed for 6 years with $2 million up front, with his salaries he has made over $3.2 million in the two years. That isn't working for free or being underpaid. Now if he has to play out the contract then it is a crime, but as of now he hasn't been mistreated, especially if he gets a new contract done this year.
But to mention anything about Mangini and him trying to maintain his tough guy rep is pure bullshit. How does Mangini get dragged into this? He isn't the owner or GM and he hasn't said shit about anything. Not a very credible statement if you wantyour argument to be taken serious.
I appreciate that you and Neb want to discredit anything I say based on small phrases here or there, but you're really stretching it now. Kok was brought in as Mangini's guy. Mangini was hired first because Lerner wants the HC to run the show. Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs). To think that this situation has gotten where it is without Mangini is "pure bullshit". And this situation is a little to similar to some that occurred when he was with the Jets to just ignore that this might be a consistent MO for Mangini (as was noted in the very first post in this thread).
Thanks for the attempt at a tangent though.
I appreciate that you and Neb want to discredit anything I say based on small phrases here or there, but you're really stretching it now. Kok was brought in as Mangini's guy. Mangini was hired first because Lerner wants the HC to run the show. Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs). To think that this situation has gotten where it is without Mangini is "pure bullshit". And this situation is a little to similar to some that occurred when he was with the Jets to just ignore that this might be a consistent MO for Mangini (as was noted in the very first post in this thread).
Thanks for the attempt at a tangent though.
Oh woe is me....cry me a freakin river. I haven't discredited everything you say. I even agreed on some points. I just totally disagree with you on backing Cribbs wholeheartedly based on a lot of "sources". You also posted outright misinformation at least twice. So god forbid someone point that out. I still stand by my post that dissing Mangini is bullshit. His name has yet to come up in these reports.
Back on topic...as I said, I'm all for Cribbs getting incentives into his contract, IF Cribbs is just looking for incentives. But with a new agent who won't get paid by just adding incentives, I just don't see that as his position. IMO he's wanting new guaranteed money and more per year, based on an EXPECTED expanded role. Thus I disagree with the method he is using to try to force the team into giving in, a method in which he has no leverage whatsoever.
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I appreciate that you and Neb want to discredit anything I say based on small phrases here or there, but you're really stretching it now. Kok was brought in as Mangini's guy. Mangini was hired first because Lerner wants the HC to run the show. Lerner's position has been that he doesnt have any say over contracts (that's part of his total disclaimer of ever mentioning contracts to Cribbs). To think that this situation has gotten where it is without Mangini is "pure bullshit". And this situation is a little to similar to some that occurred when he was with the Jets to just ignore that this might be a consistent MO for Mangini (as was noted in the very first post in this thread).
Thanks for the attempt at a tangent though.
Oh woe is me....cry me a freakin river. I haven't discredited everything you say. I even agreed on some points. I just totally disagree with you on backing Cribbs wholeheartedly based on a lot of "sources". You also posted outright misinformation at least twice. So god forbid someone point that out. I still stand by my post that dissing Mangini is bullshit. His name has yet to come up in these reports.
Back on topic...as I said, I'm all for Cribbs getting incentives into his contract, IF Cribbs is just looking for incentives. But with a new agent who won't get paid by just adding incentives, I just don't see that as his position. IMO he's wanting new guaranteed money and more per year, based on an EXPECTED expanded role. Thus I disagree with the method he is using to try to force the team into giving in, a method in which he has no leverage whatsoever.
Thus I disagree with the method he is using to try to force the team into giving in, a method in which he has no leverage whatsoever.
Hence why Cribbs and his agent took this situation to the media. Because getting fan support for Cribbs could give Cribbs and his agent some leverage.
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I welcome anyone to show me where i used the word ass in reference to anyone in the Browns organization. The same goes for asshole or hardass. Show it to me and I will apologize to you and cede whatever point it is you think you are making. If not, let me stomp out the fire on your straw man and move past this bullshit (I use that word because it seems to have become an obligatory part of these posts at this point). As part of a string of hypotheticals, I said that I wouldn't treat Cribbs poorly to protect Mangini's attempt at establishing a rep as a tough coach. Elsewhere on this thread, and on PFT.com, others have allooded to the fact that he has a history of players getting into extremely similar situations. I was not pulling it out of thin air, I was attempting to address all the possibilities in my list of hypatheticals. I was not "dissing" Mangini (although seeing the word used so many times was pretty funny, thanks). I'm sorry if I offended you by not labeling the post with a disclaimer. At this point I'm willing to add one to all my posts so I can talk football and not argue semantacs on football threads. Just tell me what I need to put there to help you out, and I'll do it.
Anyway, it seems like you agree with the opinion I gave 2 days ago and again yesterday. He is entitled to have incentives added to his deal. If Lerner promised him more, then he should get more. Other than that, he just deserves to be dealt with honestly. I'll leave the thread to you now. I misspelled some words so you can spend some time patting each other on the back for catching it (there are at least 3, in case you're wondering).
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I welcome anyone to show me where i used the word ass in reference to anyone in the Browns organization. The same goes for asshole or hardass. Show it to me and I will apologize to you and cede whatever point it is you think you are making. If not, let me stomp out the fire on your straw man and move past this bullshit (I use that word because it seems to have become an obligatory part of these posts at this point). As part of a string of hypotheticals, I said that I wouldn't treat Cribbs poorly to protect Mangini's attempt at establishing a rep as a tough coach. Elsewhere on this thread, and on PFT.com, others have allooded to the fact that he has a history of players getting into extremely similar situations. I was not pulling it out of thin air, I was attempting to address all the possibilities in my list of hypatheticals. I was not "dissing" Mangini (although seeing the word used so many times was pretty funny, thanks). I'm sorry if I offended you by not labeling the post with a disclaimer. At this point I'm willing to add one to all my posts so I can talk football and not argue semantacs on football threads. Just tell me what I need to put there to help you out, and I'll do it.
Anyway, it seems like you agree with the opinion I gave 2 days ago and again yesterday. He is entitled to have incentives added to his deal. If Lerner promised him more, then he should get more. Other than that, he just deserves to be dealt with honestly. I'll leave the thread to you now. I misspelled some words so you can spend some time patting each other on the back for catching it (there are at least 3, in case you're wondering).
I welcome anyone to show me where i used the word ass in reference to anyone in the Browns organization. The same goes for asshole or hardass. Show it to me and I will apologize to you and cede whatever point it is you think you are making. If not, let me stomp out the fire on your straw man and move past this bullshit (I use that word because it seems to have become an obligatory part of these posts at this point). As part of a string of hypotheticals, I said that I wouldn't treat Cribbs poorly to protect Mangini's attempt at establishing a rep as a tough coach. Elsewhere on this thread, and on PFT.com, others have allooded to the fact that he has a history of players getting into extremely similar situations. I was not pulling it out of thin air, I was attempting to address all the possibilities in my list of hypatheticals. I was not "dissing" Mangini (although seeing the word used so many times was pretty funny, thanks). I'm sorry if I offended you by not labeling the post with a disclaimer. At this point I'm willing to add one to all my posts so I can talk football and not argue semantacs on football threads. Just tell me what I need to put there to help you out, and I'll do it.
Anyway, it seems like you agree with the opinion I gave 2 days ago and again yesterday. He is entitled to have incentives added to his deal. If Lerner promised him more, then he should get more. Other than that, he just deserves to be dealt with honestly. I'll leave the thread to you now. I misspelled some words so you can spend some time patting each other on the back for catching it (there are at least 3, in case you're wondering).
Awww....poor Tom...everybody is ganging up on me....lol Go back and read the things you post as opposed to how you're trying to explain them now. Big difference. Sorta like how Lerner never called Cribbs....oops, my bad, never talked about contract on the phone. Or how this owner has gone through 5 coaches...ooops, except it wasn't this owner and we're only on the 4th coach now. Dude, you post a number of things and backtrack to explain what wasn't said in your original posting. Why is that?
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@shepwrite said:
I agree with Toop: Should be a lot of if-then in the deal, escalators added to the existing base for defensive or offense plays and performance there AND as a kick/punt returner.He'll want some cash. Every player does. The Browns could toss him $6 mill upfront on 4 years for sure.
Just to get a few other players deciding they want more up-front money based on expected expanded roles on the team. No thanks. Incentives, yes. But nothing more up-front until he is used more consistently in these expanded roles.
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I welcome anyone to show me where i used the word ass in reference to anyone in the Browns organization. The same goes for asshole or hardass. Show it to me and I will apologize to you and cede whatever point it is you think you are making. If not, let me stomp out the fire on your straw man and move past this bullshit (I use that word because it seems to have become an obligatory part of these posts at this point). As part of a string of hypotheticals, I said that I wouldn't treat Cribbs poorly to protect Mangini's attempt at establishing a rep as a tough coach. Elsewhere on this thread, and on PFT.com, others have allooded to the fact that he has a history of players getting into extremely similar situations. I was not pulling it out of thin air, I was attempting to address all the possibilities in my list of hypatheticals. I was not "dissing" Mangini (although seeing the word used so many times was pretty funny, thanks). I'm sorry if I offended you by not labeling the post with a disclaimer. At this point I'm willing to add one to all my posts so I can talk football and not argue semantacs on football threads. Just tell me what I need to put there to help you out, and I'll do it.
Anyway, it seems like you agree with the opinion I gave 2 days ago and again yesterday. He is entitled to have incentives added to his deal. If Lerner promised him more, then he should get more. Other than that, he just deserves to be dealt with honestly. I'll leave the thread to you now. I misspelled some words so you can spend some time patting each other on the back for catching it (there are at least 3, in case you're wondering).
I welcome anyone to show me where i used the word ass in reference to anyone in the Browns organization. The same goes for asshole or hardass. Show it to me and I will apologize to you and cede whatever point it is you think you are making. If not, let me stomp out the fire on your straw man and move past this bullshit (I use that word because it seems to have become an obligatory part of these posts at this point). As part of a string of hypotheticals, I said that I wouldn't treat Cribbs poorly to protect Mangini's attempt at establishing a rep as a tough coach. Elsewhere on this thread, and on PFT.com, others have allooded to the fact that he has a history of players getting into extremely similar situations. I was not pulling it out of thin air, I was attempting to address all the possibilities in my list of hypatheticals. I was not "dissing" Mangini (although seeing the word used so many times was pretty funny, thanks). I'm sorry if I offended you by not labeling the post with a disclaimer. At this point I'm willing to add one to all my posts so I can talk football and not argue semantacs on football threads. Just tell me what I need to put there to help you out, and I'll do it.
Anyway, it seems like you agree with the opinion I gave 2 days ago and again yesterday. He is entitled to have incentives added to his deal. If Lerner promised him more, then he should get more. Other than that, he just deserves to be dealt with honestly. I'll leave the thread to you now. I misspelled some words so you can spend some time patting each other on the back for catching it (there are at least 3, in case you're wondering).
Creed your teeth called your breath stinks. Boom roasted.
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I welcome anyone to show me where i used the word ass in reference to anyone in the Browns organization. The same goes for asshole or hardass. Show it to me and I will apologize to you and cede whatever point it is you think you are making. If not, let me stomp out the fire on your straw man and move past this bullshit (I use that word because it seems to have become an obligatory part of these posts at this point). As part of a string of hypotheticals, I said that I wouldn't treat Cribbs poorly to protect Mangini's attempt at establishing a rep as a tough coach. Elsewhere on this thread, and on PFT.com, others have allooded to the fact that he has a history of players getting into extremely similar situations. I was not pulling it out of thin air, I was attempting to address all the possibilities in my list of hypatheticals. I was not "dissing" Mangini (although seeing the word used so many times was pretty funny, thanks). I'm sorry if I offended you by not labeling the post with a disclaimer. At this point I'm willing to add one to all my posts so I can talk football and not argue semantacs on football threads. Just tell me what I need to put there to help you out, and I'll do it.
Anyway, it seems like you agree with the opinion I gave 2 days ago and again yesterday. He is entitled to have incentives added to his deal. If Lerner promised him more, then he should get more. Other than that, he just deserves to be dealt with honestly. I'll leave the thread to you now. I misspelled some words so you can spend some time patting each other on the back for catching it (there are at least 3, in case you're wondering).
Awww....poor Tom...everybody is ganging up on me....lol Go back and read the things you post as opposed to how you're trying to explain them now. Big difference. Sorta like how Lerner never called Cribbs....oops, my bad, never talked about contract on the phone. Or how this owner has gone through 5 coaches...ooops, except it wasn't this owner and we're only on the 4th coach now. Dude, you post a number of things and backtrack to explain what wasn't said in your original posting. Why is that?
Awww....poor Tom...everybody is ganging up on me....lol Go back and read the things you post as opposed to how you're trying to explain them now. Big difference. Sorta like how Lerner never called Cribbs....oops, my bad, never talked about contract on the phone. Or how this owner has gone through 5 coaches...ooops, except it wasn't this owner and we're only on the 4th coach now. Dude, you post a number of things and backtrack to explain what wasn't said in your original posting. Why is that?
I'm sorry, as long as we are rehashing all of our zingers from yesterday... How is it that it matters whether he said the call never happened or that he didnt talk about the contract on the phone? For Lerner to come out and say either one directly is him saying: "Josh Cribbs is not telling the truth." How does that help the situation at all?
Was the number of coaches really the thrust of his argument? Or was it that the ownership is as culpable if not more so than one player when deciding why the team has yet to win a super bowl? All of your arguments have to do with nuance rather than substance. Try advancing the conversation for once.
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Awww....poor Tom...everybody is ganging up on me....lol Go back and read the things you post as opposed to how you're trying to explain them now. Big difference. Sorta like how Lerner never called Cribbs....oops, my bad, never talked about contract on the phone. Or how this owner has gone through 5 coaches...ooops, except it wasn't this owner and we're only on the 4th coach now. Dude, you post a number of things and backtrack to explain what wasn't said in your original posting. Why is that?
I'm sorry, as long as we are rehashing all of our zingers from yesterday... How is it that it matters whether he said the call never happened or that he didnt talk about the contract on the phone? For Lerner to come out and say either one directly is him saying: "Josh Cribbs is not telling the truth." How does that help the situation at all?
Was the number of coaches really the thrust of his argument? Or was it that the ownership is as culpable if not more so than one player when deciding why the team has yet to win a super bowl? All of your arguments have to do with nuance rather than substance. Try advancing the conversation for once.
I'm sorry, as long as we are rehashing all of our zingers from yesterday... How is it that it matters whether he said the call never happened or that he didnt talk about the contract on the phone? For Lerner to come out and say either one directly is him saying: "Josh Cribbs is not telling the truth." How does that help the situation at all?
Was the number of coaches really the thrust of his argument? Or was it that the ownership is as culpable if not more so than one player when deciding why the team has yet to win a super bowl? All of your arguments have to do with nuance rather than substance. Try advancing the conversation for once.
How do you know what the thrust of his argument was? Unless you're him also. The main point is, ownership is NOT the same as his claim implied and he doesn't even know how many coaches have been with this version of the Browns. You seriously have no room telling someone else to advance the conversation for once. Most of your posts in this thread have been pot-shots because someone disagreed with your buddy. So Mr. Pot, go talk to Mr. Kettle for a bit and come back when you can post on topic.
I notice you only pulled out ONE part of my post and of course did not address the part dealing with Cribbs.
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I'm sorry, as long as we are rehashing all of our zingers from yesterday... How is it that it matters whether he said the call never happened or that he didnt talk about the contract on the phone? For Lerner to come out and say either one directly is him saying: "Josh Cribbs is not telling the truth." How does that help the situation at all?
Was the number of coaches really the thrust of his argument? Or was it that the ownership is as culpable if not more so than one player when deciding why the team has yet to win a super bowl? All of your arguments have to do with nuance rather than substance. Try advancing the conversation for once.
How do you know what the thrust of his argument was? Unless you're him also. The main point is, ownership is NOT the same as his claim implied and he doesn't even know how many coaches have been with this version of the Browns. You seriously have no room telling someone else to advance the conversation for once. Most of your posts in this thread have been pot-shots because someone disagreed with your buddy. So Mr. Pot, go talk to Mr. Kettle for a bit and come back when you can post on topic.
I notice you only pulled out ONE part of my post and of course did not address the part dealing with Cribbs.
How do you know what the thrust of his argument was? Unless you're him also. The main point is, ownership is NOT the same as his claim implied and he doesn't even know how many coaches have been with this version of the Browns. You seriously have no room telling someone else to advance the conversation for once. Most of your posts in this thread have been pot-shots because someone disagreed with your buddy. So Mr. Pot, go talk to Mr. Kettle for a bit and come back when you can post on topic.
I notice you only pulled out ONE part of my post and of course did not address the part dealing with Cribbs.
YAWN.
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How do you know what the thrust of his argument was? Unless you're him also. The main point is, ownership is NOT the same as his claim implied and he doesn't even know how many coaches have been with this version of the Browns. You seriously have no room telling someone else to advance the conversation for once. Most of your posts in this thread have been pot-shots because someone disagreed with your buddy. So Mr. Pot, go talk to Mr. Kettle for a bit and come back when you can post on topic.
I notice you only pulled out ONE part of my post and of course did not address the part dealing with Cribbs.
YAWN.
YAWN.
LOL...I see its bedtime for you. Make sure your mommy tucks you in. Otherwise, great and witty comeback!
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I welcome anyone to show me where i used the word ass in reference to anyone in the Browns organization. The same goes for asshole or hardass. Show it to me and I will apologize to you and cede whatever point it is you think you are making. If not, let me stomp out the fire on your straw man and move past this bullshit (I use that word because it seems to have become an obligatory part of these posts at this point). As part of a string of hypotheticals, I said that I wouldn't treat Cribbs poorly to protect Mangini's attempt at establishing a rep as a tough coach. Elsewhere on this thread, and on PFT.com, others have allooded to the fact that he has a history of players getting into extremely similar situations. I was not pulling it out of thin air, I was attempting to address all the possibilities in my list of hypatheticals. I was not "dissing" Mangini (although seeing the word used so many times was pretty funny, thanks). I'm sorry if I offended you by not labeling the post with a disclaimer. At this point I'm willing to add one to all my posts so I can talk football and not argue semantacs on football threads. Just tell me what I need to put there to help you out, and I'll do it.
Anyway, it seems like you agree with the opinion I gave 2 days ago and again yesterday. He is entitled to have incentives added to his deal. If Lerner promised him more, then he should get more. Other than that, he just deserves to be dealt with honestly. I'll leave the thread to you now. I misspelled some words so you can spend some time patting each other on the back for catching it (there are at least 3, in case you're wondering).
I welcome anyone to show me where i used the word ass in reference to anyone in the Browns organization. The same goes for asshole or hardass. Show it to me and I will apologize to you and cede whatever point it is you think you are making. If not, let me stomp out the fire on your straw man and move past this bullshit (I use that word because it seems to have become an obligatory part of these posts at this point). As part of a string of hypotheticals, I said that I wouldn't treat Cribbs poorly to protect Mangini's attempt at establishing a rep as a tough coach. Elsewhere on this thread, and on PFT.com, others have allooded to the fact that he has a history of players getting into extremely similar situations. I was not pulling it out of thin air, I was attempting to address all the possibilities in my list of hypatheticals. I was not "dissing" Mangini (although seeing the word used so many times was pretty funny, thanks). I'm sorry if I offended you by not labeling the post with a disclaimer. At this point I'm willing to add one to all my posts so I can talk football and not argue semantacs on football threads. Just tell me what I need to put there to help you out, and I'll do it.
Anyway, it seems like you agree with the opinion I gave 2 days ago and again yesterday. He is entitled to have incentives added to his deal. If Lerner promised him more, then he should get more. Other than that, he just deserves to be dealt with honestly. I'll leave the thread to you now. I misspelled some words so you can spend some time patting each other on the back for catching it (there are at least 3, in case you're wondering).
Grow up and quit whinning. If you can't take it then sign off............................WTF with the tears
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@shepwrite said:
I agree with Toop: Should be a lot of if-then in the deal, escalators added to the existing base for defensive or offense plays and performance there AND as a kick/punt returner.He'll want some cash. Every player does. The Browns could toss him $6 mill upfront on 4 years for sure.
The Brown could toss him a yearly roster bonus. Not guaranteed, but a roster bonus and some incentives on performance as a returner, receiver and DB. Keep the 4 years left and the roster bonus would allow the Browns to bail if they don't feel he is worth the money.
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http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/05/21/...e-cribbs-talks/
As Browns Bide Their Time, Cribbs Talks
Posted by Mike Florio on May 21, 2009, 8:37 a.m. EDT
The decision of Browns receiver/kick returner Josh Cribbs to stay away from a three-day voluntary minicamp that opened Tuesday has not sparked contract talks between the team and the player’s agent.
“We remain cautiously optimistic that they’ll make a good faith effort to address this,” agent J.R. Rickert, told Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. “We haven’t seen it yet, but we are ready to discuss this in a reasonable manner.”
But Rickert isn’t the only one talking. Cribbs released a statement Wednesday night, and a copy of it was sent to us by the Cribbs camp.
Titled “Josh Cribbs’ Statement In His Own Words” (which, frankly, would be a first for any pro athlete whose handlers issue such a statement), the full text of the statement is right here.
“Contracts are one-sided in favor of the team, yet we as players are told to honor our contracts without the team honoring them,” Cribbs says in a portion of the statement. “We are not doctors and lawyers, we don’t get paid for 25 years of work. If we are lucky, we get 10 years at best to make all the money we can to last the rest of our life.”
He’s right, but at the same time his situation is a product of the system to which the players’ union agreed.
Cribbs is in the same position as Anquan Boldin, Sheldon Brown, Thomas Jones, and every other player who wants to tear up a contract that the player signed because the player believes he has “outperformed” the deal or, in some cases, because the contract has been leapfrogged by deals given to other players.
And so any frustration that the player is feeling needs to be directed not also at the team that is benefitting from what has turned out to be a contract tilted in favor of the organization, but also: (1) the union for agreeing to a system that allows teams but not the players to cancel contracts early; (2) the agent who advises the player to sign the contract; and (3) the player himself, whose signature was added to the bottom of the last page of the deal.
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http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf...n_cribbs_b.html
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Josh Cribbs says pay me or trade me
So the Steelers and Ravens don't cause the Browns the biggest problems after all. Cell phones and buses do.
The team bus is where Phil Savage sat that November night when he sent the desultory text to a chirping fan -- "@#$&, Go root for Buffalo" -- that in part cost him his job.
It's where Josh Cribbs claims he took a cell phone call from owner Randy Lerner following the season finale in Pittsburgh telling him not to worry, the Browns would take care of him contractually.
The Browns released a statement -- typically for them not attributed to anyone so it could've been the man behind the curtain again -- saying no such promise was made.
Cribbs agent says he has the cell phone records to prove the phone call happened.
What's the richer part of this story?
Ed Betz/Associated Press
Browns owner Randy Lerner has a well-earned reputation for reticience and secrecy, but a hush-hush cell phone promise to Josh Cribbs seems impressive even by Lerner's standards.That a Browns player is claiming to have the goods on a team that uses a former head of the Secret Service to track employees' cell phone records? Or that the alleged call to Cribbs would answer the complaint of so many fans that Lerner isn't involved enough as team owner?
Uh, folks, you really want him involved?
Cribbs is underpaid. His work is as blue collar as it gets in football. Still, he won't get the sympathy in this economic climate, not that any athlete looking for more money ever gets much support from paying customers. But he's outperformed his deal.
That's especially true given the Browns' stated plans are to expand his role beyond kickoff returns, kickoff coverage and part-time Slash duty.
They're pretty much expecting him to do everything except play backup goalie for Lerner's Aston Villa soccer team.
Promises from a former GM carry as much meaning as altar promises from an ex-spouse. But a promise from Lerner, if true, is something different. Unless during the (alleged) phone call Lerner said, #$@%, Go root for Phil Savage to give you the money, the owner has put the front office in a delicate spot and now may be throwing one of the Browns' best players under the bus.
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Cleveland Browns' Cribbs meets with Mangini
by Mary Kay Cabot
Thursday May 21, 2009, 10:31 AM
Browns coach Eric Mangini said he met Thursday morning with disgruntled receiver Joshua Cribbs at the Browns facility in Berea. He said Cribbs, who's skipping voluntary minicamp until the Browns address his contract, attended a full squad meeting Thursday morning.
Cribbs is not planning on practicing Thursday unless the Browns have engaged in "meaningful dialogue'' regarding his contract.
But Mangini cautioned that "a lot of information'' is going in during this minicamp and that anyone not here is falling behind. Cribbs', who released a statement in his own words, is anxious to join practice, according to his agents.
Mangini said several players are absent because of personal reasons, but didn't say who before practice began.
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Interesting take - I agree the hester deal is a bad one for chi. I think we are all on the same page regarding the fact that his contract is barely relevant here:
http://www.nologoneeded.com/no_logo_needed...r-trade-me.html
Pay Me or Trade Me?
By Brandon Rastok
NoLogoNeeded.com staff writer
Pay me or trade me.
So that is the stance Josh Cribbs has taken?
Before we begin, a few things about Josh Cribbs:
•Cribbs was one of only a handful of players that never gave up during the debacle that was the 2008 season.
•Every time he has the ball in his hands, there is the potential for a big play.
•He is probably the only player in the league that is as skilled at covering kicks as he is returning them.
•In 2007, he led the league with his 30.7 yards per kickoff return average and was third in average punt return yards.
•Cribbs also is one of the most exciting players to watch in a Browns uniform.
•He is a versatile player and can run the Flash package the Browns have installed.
Now, with four years to go on his contract at $620,000, $635,000, $650,000, and $790,000, is he under paid? Yes.
But, there are a few things to take into consideration.
First, kick returners typically have a very short shelf life. Andre Davis, who was second to Cribbs in average kickoff return yards at 30.3 in 2007, fell to 27th in 2008 with a 23.1-yard average. In 2007, Davis had three touchdowns, but in 2008 he had zero. Since 2003, only 10 players have been in the top 10 in average return yards more than once — Miles Austin, Dante Hall, Devin Hester, Bethel Johnson, Jerome Mathis, Terrence McGee, Willie Ponder, Adam “Pacman” Jones, Maurice Jones-Drew and Leon Washington have all been in the top ten twice during that 6 year span. Only one player, McGee, has done it three times. No player has statistically been in the top 10 in more than half of those six seasons.
Players tend to flame out after one to two years of solid return production. The human joystick, Dante Hall, is the perfect example. In 2003, Hall was all the rage with four returns for touchdowns. He was fourth in kickoff return average and was first in punt return average. The next season, he dropped to fifth in kickoff average, had only two touchdowns, and dropped to eighth in punt return average. He has not been back in the top 10 in kickoff return average since.
After Cribbs’ stellar 2007, his production fell off last season as he dropped to 16th in kick off returns with a 25.3 yard average and only scored one touchdown. He dropped to 17th in punt returns with an 8.1-yard average.
With his decline in production last season, is Cribbs already past his kick returner prime? Should the Browns throw large sums of money at a player whose return specialist production has already maxed out? I tend to think not.
Second, Cribbs and his agent want to use the Devin Hester contract as leverage and sign a similar deal. Hester is no longer the Bears’ top return man. That role belongs to Daniel Manning who led the league in kickoff returns last season. Hester’s deal is based on him being one of the team’s top wide receivers while also returning some kicks. The depth chart at ESPN.com lists Hester as the No. 2 receiver.
In 2007, Cribbs’ best year as a returner, he had three kicks returned for touchdowns. That same year, Hester returned six kicks for touchdowns. Last season, Hester had 51 receptions for 665 yards and three touchdowns. He added another six rushes for 61 yards. In 2007, Hester managed 20 receptions for 299 yards and two touchdowns. By comparison, Cribbs had 2 receptions for 18 yards with one touchdown in 2008. He added 167 yards rushing on 29 attempts. Looking back at 2007, Cribbs added another 3 receptions for 31 yards and nine rushes for 61 yards to his resume. This is hardly having an impact on the offense. With all the new additions the Browns have at receiver, will Cribbs even manage to get his 2-3 receptions this coming season? It is clear that Cribbs is not the same type of player as Devin Hester, and that contract should not be used in negotiations.
Third, even if Devin Hester signed a $40 million contract and other teams believe the Bears signed a bad contract, does that mean that the Browns automatically have to lock themselves into a bad contract? The Browns should not be forced into following poor decisions by other teams. Likewise, if Cribbs and his agent agreed to a deal that was a poor deal for him, is that the Browns’ fault? Would Cribbs return some of the money if he had not played up to his contract? The answer is clearly no. In the real world, especially in today's economy, workers are not guaranteed a job. If they have a successful project that makes the company a bunch of money, how many of the workers actually run to their boss and say, "Pay me.”?
Fourth, Cribbs has four years left on his current contract. If the Browns redo this contract, what kind of message does that send to the rest of the team?
The front office might as well shout through a mega phone during training camp:
“HAVE ONE PRODUCTIVE SEASON AND WE’LL OPEN OUR CHECKBOOK!”
If things were difficult last season with Winslow, Edwards, Cribbs, and Dawson wanting new deals, wait until the Browns open their wallet for Cribbs whose production dropped as the team suffered through a 4-12 season. Actions like this breed the “player before team” and “pay me” attitudes.
Fifth, Cribbs is holding out from minicamp and asking for a trade if the Browns don’t get serious about a new deal. Cribbs is not a starter on offense or defense. He is a situational player. There has been mention of him playing safety with a slight chance to start. Wouldn’t he have a better argument for more money if he were actually participating and putting himself in the best position for more playing time? Meanwhile, there are players like D’Qwell Jackson who is a free agent at the end of the season. He is a full-time starter. He led the NFL in tackles last season. He makes the fourth-year minimum of $640,000. Jackson still reports to minicamp to get better and help the team. Which player should have a renegotiated contract first?
The bottom line is Cribbs should be helping the team this offseason and he is not. The Browns would be wise to give him an added bonus and slightly restructure his deal. However, it should not be anywhere near what he is asking for.
The Browns should offer to double his current pay and give him roughly $1.2 to $2 million per season. The last thing this team needs is to throw its salary cap structure out of whack and make a kick returner one of its highest paid players.
I leave you with one thought. Would the Buffalo Bills have given perennial Pro Bowl special teams player Steve Tasker $10 million a year like Hester is receiving? He was the best at what he did, but also was only a situational player.
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