I want the asshole or assholes redponsible for trading down last year...
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These 2nd year players if they keep this level of play up, need cut at the end if the year. The rookies get one more year but they need to be told if this shit keeps up well into next season ur gonna sit or get cut. This is bullshit. Players making ZERO progress need to be told ur gone
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The Defense stepped up in the second half and gave us a chance to get back into the game, only allowing 3 points. That's a plus.
The drops are partly responsible for Kizer throwing some crazy passes. He needs to get better.
The Defense stepped up in the second half and gave us a chance to get back into the game, only allowing 3 points. That's a plus.
The drops are partly responsible for Kizer throwing some crazy passes. He needs to get better.
The colts went to gore more otherwise the score would have been worse. So the defense gets credit for run stopping? The secondary and pass rush are just awful. A healthy andrew luck drops 60 points on this team
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So 2016... I guess. The draft where Sashi & Co. had less time to prep and had not fully installed their staff... OK... got it.
That said...
... I'm going to completely disagree with your stance.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
So 2016... I guess. The draft where Sashi & Co. had less time to prep and had not fully installed their staff... OK... got it.
That said...
... I'm going to completely disagree with your stance.
So 2016... I guess. The draft where Sashi & Co. had less time to prep and had not fully installed their staff... OK... got it.
That said...
... I'm going to completely disagree with your stance.
Curious as to which first or second round pick you think they got right? Honestly asking. I think Garrett was spot on but he is not quantifiable at this point. Jalapeño and Count Dooku are raw but seem to be 50/50 right now.
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Some of you shouldn't start watching the games yet. It's a work in progress.
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They KNEW peppers was not good at defending the ball in the air. That was a known quantity while at Michigan. And now they're shocked that he isn't good at defending balls in the air?
Quote from link "He has limited experience, and has not displayed the instincts needed to decipher plays quick enough to prevent big catches."
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Some of you shouldn't start watching the games yet. It's a work in progress.
The "team" is a work in progress. But the lack of individual development in 2nd and 3rd year players is not wip. Cant build anything with less than mediocre players that arent getting better.
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So 2016... I guess. The draft where Sashi & Co. had less time to prep and had not fully installed their staff... OK... got it.
That said...
... I'm going to completely disagree with your stance.
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Some of you shouldn't start watching the games yet. It's a work in progress.
The "team" is a work in progress. But the lack of individual development in 2nd and 3rd year players is not wip. Cant build anything with less than mediocre players that arent getting better.
But the lack of individual development in 2nd and 3rd year players is not wip. Cant build anything with less than mediocre players that arent getting better.
Devalve's not better?
BBC is not better?
Kindred?
How 'bout Schobert?
Telfer?
Nassib? Touchy one, but WTF... might as well go for it...
Then there are a couple reclamation projects we've acquired, e.g., Taylor.
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But the lack of individual development in 2nd and 3rd year players is not wip. Cant build anything with less than mediocre players that arent getting better.
Devalve's not better?
BBC is not better?
Kindred?
How 'bout Schobert?
Telfer?
Nassib? Touchy one, but WTF... might as well go for it...
Then there are a couple reclamation projects we've acquired, e.g., Taylor.
Devalve's not better?
BBC is not better?
Kindred?
How 'bout Schobert?
Telfer?
Nassib? Touchy one, but WTF... might as well go for it...
Then there are a couple reclamation projects we've acquired, e.g., Taylor.
Getting better than they started or could start for a playoff team?
That has been the biggest issue for me. There’s being NFL good and being Browns good.
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Devalves getting more touches so cant really tell if he's progressed or not. Schobert has definitely progressed tho ur right, albeit at a diff position he wasnt drafted for. But thats what happens when ur constantly changing regimes.
Our high picks tho havent given us shit. I expected shelton to have a breakout season due to being a one gap DT now. In college he excelled at blowing up gaps and creating pressure up the middle. Right now oginjobe is our only productive interior lineman in pass rush. I guess we're doing alright in run stops but it seems like meder and shelton are getting moved quite a bit but our lb'er play has covered that up. Its provably only a matter of time before some good running attack gouges us up the middle tho.
As for oyr DE's, ive said everything that needs to be said in orevious threads. They're awful in pass rush. Ogbah is black kruger without the good bullrush. The only DE wirth keeping right now is nassib but only because he knows his shit in run D. If he gets hurt teams will start caving in both edges and we're fucked.
when garret comes back it better be him and nassib on the field. Im over ogbah and orchard. If i was the DC one of those guys would be getting cut and schult would be brought up
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Devalve's not better?
BBC is not better?
Kindred?
How 'bout Schobert?
Telfer?
Nassib? Touchy one, but WTF... might as well go for it...
Then there are a couple reclamation projects we've acquired, e.g., Taylor.
Getting better than they started or could start for a playoff team?
That has been the biggest issue for me. There’s being NFL good and being Browns good.
Getting better than they started or could start for a playoff team?
I think a couple could start for a playoff team... might be a barely-squeaked-in team... but a playoff team. Better than that? Look at their rosters and see how many of their starters are new to the league. Playoff teams are not born overnite.
We started over from scratch last season. We were in essence an "expansion team". Only CAR and JAX made the playoffs as early as year two... and that's because they got a "welcome-to-the-NFL-veteran-expansion-Draft deal" so sweet that existing owners vowed to never do it again.
It's hard... damn hard... to endure this process. And if you don't see the process, then it's even harder. But I do... at least I think I do. Am I deluded? Maybe... but I don't believe I am self-deluded.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Im fine with "the process" tour. Stsly, i knew overall the team would suck. But the lack of individual improvement at certain positions is a non starter for me. Ogbah still getting turned inside on run plays when he's got no help to his outside? Fuck that. Ur that fucking big and cant keep outside leverage? Forget about getting off the point and making a play, thats next level stuff....how bout just setting a proper edge first?
Nassib at least can keep the point and actually gets off it to help the play, but he was doing that last year. His main deciciency was strength and pass rushing technique. 3 games in now and the tackles are beating him to the edge and he still cant turn into them and convert speed to power. At least in preseason garett showed he knows how do it. We'll see if he can in reg season games. But at least in ore season he showed he can come off the ball immediately with power or turn a speed rush into a power rush mid path. This is common stuff on other rosters but here in cleveland its like "are they finally going to learn how to proper rush this year" year after year after year.
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Devalves getting more touches so cant really tell if he's progressed or not. Schobert has definitely progressed tho ur right, albeit at a diff position he wasnt drafted for. But thats what happens when ur constantly changing regimes.
Our high picks tho havent given us shit. I expected shelton to have a breakout season due to being a one gap DT now. In college he excelled at blowing up gaps and creating pressure up the middle. Right now oginjobe is our only productive interior lineman in pass rush. I guess we're doing alright in run stops but it seems like meder and shelton are getting moved quite a bit but our lb'er play has covered that up. Its provably only a matter of time before some good running attack gouges us up the middle tho.
As for oyr DE's, ive said everything that needs to be said in orevious threads. They're awful in pass rush. Ogbah is black kruger without the good bullrush. The only DE wirth keeping right now is nassib but only because he knows his shit in run D. If he gets hurt teams will start caving in both edges and we're fucked.
when garret comes back it better be him and nassib on the field. Im over ogbah and orchard. If i was the DC one of those guys would be getting cut and schult would be brought up
Devalves getting more touches so cant really tell if he's progressed or not. Schobert has definitely progressed tho ur right, albeit at a diff position he wasnt drafted for. But thats what happens when ur constantly changing regimes.
Our high picks tho havent given us shit. I expected shelton to have a breakout season due to being a one gap DT now. In college he excelled at blowing up gaps and creating pressure up the middle. Right now oginjobe is our only productive interior lineman in pass rush. I guess we're doing alright in run stops but it seems like meder and shelton are getting moved quite a bit but our lb'er play has covered that up. Its provably only a matter of time before some good running attack gouges us up the middle tho.
As for oyr DE's, ive said everything that needs to be said in orevious threads. They're awful in pass rush. Ogbah is black kruger without the good bullrush. The only DE wirth keeping right now is nassib but only because he knows his shit in run D. If he gets hurt teams will start caving in both edges and we're fucked.
when garret comes back it better be him and nassib on the field. Im over ogbah and orchard. If i was the DC one of those guys would be getting cut and schult would be brought up
Reasonable take...
I differ on Danny. Never have seen the sustained burst to pressure the QB, so I did not expect to see it this year. Catch a QB stepping up to avoid an edge rush? Different story... But be it run or pass I expected him to consume two OL... all the time. You'd know better than I how close that is the case.
The middle pressure I have seen has been largely from Coley. He brought it early today and then disappeared... in part I think due to rotation. But any middle pressure is gravy to my mind as objective #1 is keep The Mike clean. Something our interior guys did much of the time for all three LBs today. Each staring LB made at least one really sweet run fill that I saw.
I did not notice Ogun that much... either good or bad... but Brantley is looking less and less like a steal. Meder? Seemed like I saw a big, white dude in on D, but never heard his name... which still may mean he did job #1.
DEs... yeah. Ogbah's ass ought to be red after losing contain on Brisket's first TD "run". Pass rush 101: Keep a running QB in the pocket. I did see Orchard make a play or two today, but again yeah... not good enough. Not enough speed and/or quick for his size... and he should know that if you pull on your wrap of a QB, you'll get flagged for "driving the QB into the ground."
Anyway... That's Larry, Carl and Joe in the past two drafts contributing (and growing) in our front seven. Plus: a FA's in Coley... a trade in Collins and a nice shift of Kirksey. Not all bad... and the 2ndary hasn't really been discussed.
Then there's the OL... Have I mentioned I like Shon Coleman?
Hang in there. I'll do what I can to show you it's not as bad as you think. You in turn can keep me grounded.
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I disagree on the orchard hit, thats as clean as it comes. "Textbook" for how they want u to hit the qb these days.
As for shelton i did expect more pressure from him on passing downs. I agree space occupation is job #1 but creating pressure up the middle on passing downs is not expecting world class contribution. We cant collapse the pocket either from the edges ir up the middle. Our edges get pushed wide and with nothing coming up the middle save for lb'er blitzes, qb's step up all day on this defense gave nothing but clean air to throw to. Brisset to TY on that step up post route was there the whole game. Yes thats also on the secondary but if there was pressure up the middle whatsoever that throw becomes alot more difficult. Brisset was full stepping into his throws well after 4 seconds which means he had a perfectly laundered pocket from which to throw. Some 4th stringer literally just caved in our b holes
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And the OL? Ummm no. I cant even name all of them anymore because i stopped paying attn to them. They piss me off that much. Im still seeing primary edge rushers cut loose and our rookie qb tries to deke them instead of throwing the ball away. Our o line is doing this kid no favors.
I cringe thinking about our protect against professional pass rushes like the texans or the vikings. Thats gonna be rough to watch. If the steelers
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