***Official Browns @ Colts Game Day Thread***

wargograw

@sd_tom said:

Why does Crow get about 10-12 rushes a game when Hue stated "we're going to run the ball"

On the plus side, it's like opposite day in the NFl today. Seems like a lot of favorites got their asses kicked today.

Some of you just check the stats after the game and then comment base on that, don't you?

jrb12711

@tiamat63 said:

Some thoughts:

Opposing offenses will continue to go heavy ball action and attack our DB's vertical on early downs when you give them that many off looks. The first strike to TY is a prime example of max protect and a 3 man pattern exploiting our inconsistent pass rush. I'm also not a fan of our how we stack our linebackers because the backside tends to overpursue. Why are we not running Crow with a lead more? Jacoby's second TD rush was only made possible by a clear uncalled holding on Orchard. He would have secured the tackle and what is worse is the ref starring right at it with no flag. Peppers with more shitty angles and tackling which was directly responsible for TY again breaking off a long gain. I hope Woody is seeing his boy in action.

Leslie is my kind of receiver because he fights for contested passes and most importantly has solid hands. Njoku is starting to get more looks, if he could just work on his inline blocking and how he sells the release that would be nice. Kizer drifting and throwing off his backfoot could have really fucked up that TD pass, young blood needs to settle down. The pick that was supposed to go to Williams is on Kizer. Had the route but didn't read the DB's leverage and how the WR would break off it. Kasen did the right thing and squared his shoulders inside. His footwork was also a bit spotty when he threw to the wrong shoulder on the second pick to Britt. Again, Kizer had the route and the read... just a bad throw.

Right there with you man, good thoughts. To go off what you're saying

-You could actually hear Jacoby on three separate occasions call "max protect" on the audible. I literally said out loud "here comes a 15 yard out route to TY" and what do you know? Tough to be encouraged when you literally see the play coming from your couch.

-Don't even get me started on missed holds on Browns yesterday, especially on key plays. The "roughing the passer" (i.e. bullshit) was predicated on our guy getting arm-barred tackled to the ground before that call went against us. Double whammy of bullshit-I really hope the NFL at least considers making that type of thing reviewable. Right on with the Orchard call too, another arm-bar (definition of holding) just not called. I'm so tired of the Browns not getting the benefit of the doubt. You can say "well that's how it goes" but that's honestly bullshit. The refs job is to make the call, and the Browns never get the close calls, only get called for them. That's the type of shit that directly leads to big plays for the other team, and in that case a TD.

-The point of playing Peppers back according to our defensive guys is to take away the deep threat and protect the weakness of the safety. Literally neither thing occurred, which I hope to God Gregg at least carefully starts to review. It's just not working.

-Kizer made bad throws, I'm not gonna sit here and defend them. But can you imagine playing the position when your guys drop EIGHT balls (including three beautiful deep balls)? I can't even begin to tell you how disappointing that is. Football is a momentum game, and our WR core absolutely took the wind out of the sails. No excuses.

jiggins7919

We basically got beat by yet another premier WR. We don't have one, and it becomes very apparent when the opposing team DOES.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@sd_tom said:

Why does Crow get about 10-12 rushes a game when Hue stated "we're going to run the ball"

On the plus side, it's like opposite day in the NFl today. Seems like a lot of favorites got their asses kicked today.

Because that's about how many carries he gives his RB1. McFadden averaged about 16 carries/game in OAK and Hill averaged about 15/game in CIN under Hue, and they are both better RB1's than Crow.

Crow averaged 12.4 attemps/game last year and is averaging 13/game this year, so it's not like there's any change in philosophy. We were down multiple scores early and we had to throw the ball often. That happens from time to time.

The bigger problem is that last year Crow was averaging nearly 5 YPC and this year he's averaging 2.9. He's not a game-changing RB, he has questionable vision and he's having a hard time finding the holes. Sometimes he goes off, but as of right now he is a below average back.

nickers

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Because that's about how many carries he gives his RB1. McFadden averaged about 16 carries/game in OAK and Hill averaged about 15/game in CIN under Hue, and they are both better RB1's than Crow.

Crow averaged 12.4 attemps/game last year and is averaging 13/game this year, so it's not like there's any change in philosophy. We were down multiple scores early and we had to throw the ball often. That happens from time to time.

The bigger problem is that last year Crow was averaging nearly 5 YPC and this year he's averaging 2.9. He's not a game-changing RB, he has questionable vision and he's having a hard time finding the holes. Sometimes he goes off, but as of right now he is a below average back.

I always thought Crow was pretty marginal for a back.. A little bit better than average , but not elite.. I find him underwhelming, most times

tiamat63

My issue so far isn't Peppers alignment but two glarring plays he did exactly what stat treads said - missed tackles. Bad. The first one getting stiff armed by Hilton in the process. The second was how he positioned himself going at TY. Sure, receiver may have been running out of bounds but you always stay inside field shoulder and use the boundary as your extra defender.

Re: the run game. My concern is Hue being too obsessed trying to have a balanced offense and not an effective or efficient one. If you're beating their front seven over the head with the run, then by all means, do what the Texans did against Cincy. Lineup in 12 and 22 personnel, use a 6th lineman and pound the rock.

It doesn't have to be pretty, just effective.

edit: To help my point

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@nickers said:

I always thought Crow was pretty marginal for a back.. A little bit better than average , but not elite.. I find him underwhelming, most times

I'm right there with you. He's a groove back with above average physical talent but that's about it IMO. He won't ever take games over, but he'll have a few scattered 100 yard / 2 TD performances in his career.

Duke is the guy that Hue wants to use and for good reason, he's a weapon. But he's not a volume carrier and right now he's a defensive key. Without anyone to take the pressure off him, he'll be bottled up often.

What we need is a volume back with a see the hole, hit the hole mentality that can get us into those "plus" situations - 2nd and 4, 3rd and 1, etc. Those situations allow Hue to open the playbook up a little more and will drastically alter playcalling tendencies, making it harder for opposing DC's to gameplan for us. It would be wonderful to go and get a guy like Barkley and just hand the reigns over to him but I don't see this FO spending an early pick on a RB unless he's the second coming of Jesus.

A guy like Chubb in the second round would be a perfect complement to Duke IMO - he's a thick back with great vision and patience. His chunk run percentage is probably lower than most and his top end speed will never be elite, but he's great for 5 and 6 yard gains and, best of all, he breaks tackles. To top it off, the guy is apparently a great teammate and a weight room monster.

tiamat63

I like Chubb as a runner but no thanks. He already has two, I believe? - significant knee injuries. That's simply not a risk you can take right now.

nickers

@tiamat63 said:

I like Chubb as a runner but no thanks. He already has two, I believe? - significant knee injuries. That's simply not a risk you can take right now.

Yeah.. I'm sick of the browns taking flyers on guys with a history of injuries...

Tim Couch Pulls Out

@tiamat63 said:

I like Chubb as a runner but no thanks. He already has two, I believe? - significant knee injuries. That's simply not a risk you can take right now.

I believe only the one, and he somehow didn't tear his ACL. Still grotesque as hell, but I'd take a chance on that.

SD_Tom

Saquon Barkley

The Gipper

@sd_tom said:

Saquon Barkley

I would say right now, he may be a Top Ten pick from everything I hear. Maybe an Ezekial Elliott clone

SD_Tom

LOL but, Kizer is the future. No need to draft a QB according to Hue. We're set!

He looks the real deal in actual games. I saw the video of him cleaning 405lbs. Not that it's a weightlifting contest, but damn he's a monster. If you're getting compared to Zeke, that's a sign you're gonna be pretty awesome.

dawg2fan

@dawg2fan said:

BTW, the Ravens are getting throttled by Jax 23-0. Bad news for us. Now i'm starting to believe that we'll probably be 0-3 after all. At least the Colts were competitive with the Cards last week.

Well, my guess was on point.

Clevfan4life

We need to go back to 3-4 yds and a cloud of dust, than let kizer take deep shots off play action. Just get a big nasty fullback and oyt a big nasty rb behind him a d punish defensive fronts. Keep our defense off the field so that when they do cone in they're flying.

To revisit that dead horse......vickers/hillis. Rebuild that

wargograw

I'm not a huge fan of Chubb. Ghoolie's probably in though.

Seriously though, Chubb's pretty overrated.

MLD Woody

@baconhound said:

He wasn't a very good DB at Michigan at best I thought he would be a safety but doesn't seem to be happening.

I can't remember if you defended Justine Gilbert this strongly

I didn't. But you can pretend whatever helps you feel more "right".

He didn't play DB at Michigan. He also was Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year and won numerous other awards.

This is where I get called a Homer and biased for using facts to show how those that are actual homers and biased are incorrect

MLD Woody

@hoorta said:

I should have done the same...

I won't bang on Peppers- he's doing what he's coached to do... There were other guys in the Brows secondary that played far worse...

A lot of those punts were moon shots that had no reasonable chance of a return. I counted ONE that Peppers could have fair caught

Woah, hold on. Are you sure? You positive you don't want to declare Peppers a busy already? Blame him for losing the game and say he should have e returned every punt for a TD?

I think you're doing it wrong.

Canton Dawg

@hoorta said:

A lot of those punts were moon shots that had no reasonable chance of a return. I counted ONE that Peppers could have not fair caught.

Well, after returning 3 punts against the Stoolers (with a respectable 11yard avg) he returned zero against the Rats and zero against the Dolts.

Whats the over/under against the Bungholes?

Mark O

@canton-dawg said:

Well, after returning 3 punts against the Stoolers (with a respectable 11yard avg) he returned zero against the Rats and zero against the Dolts.

Whats the over/under against the Bungholes?

I'm with Larry on this one. I wasn't at the game of course like he was but it seemed like nearly every punt was right against the sidelines or even out of bounds. Looked like Peppers did an admirable job of flopping when he was hit on the sidelines after one of them. He made it look like he got destroyed but was barely hit. Almost worked too...