Kizer vs. Watson
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Go actually 'play catch' with somebody. Out of ten people you 'play catch' with, 10 people will throw the ball differently. Out of those 10 people throwing the ball to you, one of them will throw you the most catchable ball and one will throw passes to you that are hard to catch. Try it sometime. Not all throws are created equal, measured in MPH or velocity of the spin on the ball when it makes contact with your hands. These guys are great pass catchers. They have been catching balls for most of their lives most likely, it's how they make a living... if so many players are having difficulty bringing in Kizer's passes- doesn't that tell you something about the way he throws the ball or maybe the angle of release, something?
Go actually 'play catch' with somebody. Out of ten people you 'play catch' with, 10 people will throw the ball differently. Out of those 10 people throwing the ball to you, one of them will throw you the most catchable ball and one will throw passes to you that are hard to catch. Try it sometime. Not all throws are created equal, measured in MPH or velocity of the spin on the ball when it makes contact with your hands. These guys are great pass catchers. They have been catching balls for most of their lives most likely, it's how they make a living... if so many players are having difficulty bringing in Kizer's passes- doesn't that tell you something about the way he throws the ball or maybe the angle of release, something?
Yeah. I do think there’s something to that.
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One has been a champion in HS and college. One hasn't.
Also, very interesting that each of their college coaches had polar opposite opinions on their draft status as well.
Kelly "he needed to stay in school at least another year and develop on and off the field"
Sweeney "you pass on Deshaun Watson, you're passing on Michael Jordan"
One has been a champion in HS and college. One hasn't.
Also, very interesting that each of their college coaches had polar opposite opinions on their draft status as well.
Kelly "he needed to stay in school at least another year and develop on and off the field"
Sweeney "you pass on Deshaun Watson, you're passing on Michael Jordan"
So you think Watson is the second greatest player in history of the game? Please mr. Sweeney...
WSS
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No, that pick was caught just fine too.
Hogan was hit as that ball was released. It still got to the receiver- just a bit high, an erratic pass that was 'tough' to catch, tipped to a trailing defender... sounds a bit like Kizer's normal passes. Receivers must anticipate and correct for the passes trajectory, if it's coming in hot and off target, it leads to drops. case and point.
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Except for that pick, right?
All QB's throw picks. He was hit as he threw as well. Overall you can't argue the catch rate with Hogan in is around 80% and with Kizer a little over half of that. To me that conclusively puts a lot of the drop issue squarely on how and where the QB is placing the ball.
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Texan fan here FWIW, I watched the first half last week of the game against the Jets. Whats missing in the discussion of supporting casts is the contrast in O-lines, Houston's is absolutely in the bottom half if not bottom quarter of the league, the Browns on the other hand are clearly a top ten line. I saw many drop backs where Kizer had all day to throw and he didn't find anyone, his throws were all over the place and he was quite frantic out there. When Hogan came in you could immediately see the difference and how much better he was playing.
If you have watched Watson, you see that he seldom gets good protection and he has to move around a lot to buy time. He's often running for his life back there, but still manages to make good decisions for the most part. What stands out about Watson, and what makes him good, and what is hard to quantify and measure is how calm under pressure he is as well as his pocket presence, escapability, and quick decisiveness. He just seems to never lose his cool or get flustered even with guys all over him. Also he isn't looking to run, he is looking to buy time to throw down field. RG3 doesn't compare in this fashion, he was able to succeed because of his ability to run combined with the zone blocking scheme concepts of a Shanahan offense. Its early and he obviously has to keep it up but IMO this isn't a flash in the pan type of deal because of the above mentioned strengths.
You can't really dismiss Kizer, he looks like a rookie. DW4 kinda looked like that his first game or so, but has quickly improved to a high level. Also its hard to beat up on the Browns too much when DW4 was the 3rd guy taken and obviously no one thought he would be this good this fast. But there is something about this kid, that is not so easily quantified or measured that sets him apart. I think if they could do it over the Browns would have jumped all over this guy instead of trading the pick, but hindsight is 20/20. He wouldn't have lasted to that pick if everyone knew what we know now. I can't really fault the Browns in their decision making, its just bad luck in a sense.
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Still early to say, but the numbers don't lie
Kizer thru 5 games - 50% completion pct. 851 yards, 3TDs 9INTs
Watson thru 5 games- 62% completion pct. 1,072 yards, 12TDs, 4INTs
Maybe passing on this guy was a bad idea after all..
Factory of Sadness continues..
Kizer - Duke, Njoku and Kasen Williams
Watson - Lamar, Hopkins, Miller & Fuller
Deshaun is exceeding what I expected out of him. But let's not ignore the quality of his supporting case relative to our own.
Howdy... Watson came into the league more ready. No doubt about that. What I am not sure about is how much better he can get. What's your sense of that?
See you, Sunday... if you tailgate.
Kizer - Duke, Njoku and Kasen Williams
Watson - Lamar, Hopkins, Miller & Fuller
Deshaun is exceeding what I expected out of him. But let's not ignore the quality of his supporting case relative to our own.
Can't completely discount accumulating experience, but Watson's numbers took off when Fuller returned to the lineup.
Hogan was hit as that ball was released. It still got to the receiver- just a bit high, an erratic pass that was 'tough' to catch, tipped to a trailing defender... sounds a bit like Kizer's normal passes. Receivers must anticipate and correct for the passes trajectory, if it's coming in hot and off target, it leads to drops. case and point.
So a hit from the front causes a ball to sail high and long???
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I like Hogan, hell I liked Kessler..
But Hogan has more upside than Kess, but not quite the arm stength as Kizer.Arm strength don't mean Sheet if you cant put it on the receiver. Hogan has that ability.
Now granted, lots of drops from Kizer's passes, no doubt, but ive seen him miss some pretty wide open WRs
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Maybe we made the wrong pick taking Kizer, maybe we haven't..
He has led some impressive drives, only to FUBAR it up in the redzone..
Sitting and seeing how it gets done is probably a good thing for the kid, unless Hogan plays lights out and snatches the job away from him..
Am I surprised that Hue went back on his word? No
Am I surprised it took Hue this long to realize, maybe this kid isn't ready? Absolutely!
I don't see us beating the Texans with Kizer at the helm,
I believe Hogan gives us a better chance.. Let's see if MG can get going and bring the heat on DeShaun... Should be an interesting game..
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The list of athletic QBs who lit the NFL on fire, but eventually fizzled out because they can't stand in the pocket, go through their progressions, etc is a long one. (Cunningham, RGIII, Kaepernick, Tebow come to mind). They are the NFL equivalent of a hotshot pitcher who can throw 95mph fastballs but can't command any other pitches, eventually the league catches up to them unless they master the finer points of the position.
I'm going to withhold "THE BROWNS REALLY MISSED ON THIS KID!" rant for more evidence down the road.
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The list of athletic QBs who lit the NFL on fire, but eventually fizzled out because they can't stand in the pocket, go through their progressions, etc is a long one. (Cunningham, RGIII, Kaepernick, Tebow come to mind). They are the NFL equivalent of a hotshot pitcher who can throw 95mph fastballs but can't command any other pitches, eventually the league catches up to them unless they master the finer points of the position.
I'm going to withhold "THE BROWNS REALLY MISSED ON THIS KID!" rant for more evidence down the road.
I'm going to withhold "THE BROWNS REALLY MISSED ON THIS KID!" rant for more evidence down the road.
Wise... both times...
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You realize this entire post is based on a guy whose name seems to be taken from a minor and relatively unknown Star Wars character?
WSS
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"Westside" was a Star Wars character?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
He might not be a Michael Jordan, but there's no doubt he works his butt off and gets his team to buy in.
He's a special person. Been the man of the house since he was a young teenager and his mom had cancer .. Won championship in hs, set state records in hs I think, won a championship in college (almost had 2) while graduating early, and is currently leading the NFL at his position. He earned respect very quickly in the NFL, and from all accounts is just a tremendous leader wherever he's been.
Like Sweeney said, he's too busy being great to get distracted with off field crap.
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"Westside" was a Star Wars character?
Dabo Swinney doesn't sound like a Star Wars character to you?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Dabo Swinney doesn't sound like a Star Wars character to you?
lol... now that you mention it...
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