Report: Browns Begin Searching For New Football Executive
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The problem I see since 99 is that we put a foundation in place and then continually tear it down and start over. There is no continuity. Players were drafted for one scheme and then when there is regime change new philosophies are implemented and different type players needed for the new schemes on offense and defense. That is the reason I don't want to start over again but we have to have the right foundation to start with. Expectations were not high this year but I thought we would be better than this. Coming off 1-15 last year I thought we might get 6 wins this year and be in play off contention next year but we are staring at a winless season right now. Not seeing improvement from last year and that should not be a hard bar to achieve.
I would have liked to see us go a different route. A simple philosophy of hiring the best available as HC and the FO and then having the confidence to stay with them and give them time to succeed. In hiring the best to look at their track records. If they have a prior track record of success that is a good indication with time they will be successful with the Browns. I believe that formula would have worked many years ago.
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The problem I see since 99 is that we put a foundation in place and then continually tear it down and start over. There is no continuity. Players were drafted for one scheme and then when there is regime change new philosophies are implemented and different type players needed for the new schemes on offense and defense. That is the reason I don't want to start over again but we have to have the right foundation to start with. Expectations were not high this year but I thought we would be better than this. Coming off 1-15 last year I thought we might get 6 wins this year and be in play off contention next year but we are staring at a winless season right now. Not seeing improvement from last year and that should not be a hard bar to achieve.
I would have liked to see us go a different route. A simple philosophy of hiring the best available as HC and the FO and then having the confidence to stay with them and give them time to succeed. In hiring the best to look at their track records. If they have a prior track record of success that is a good indication with time they will be successful with the Browns. I believe that formula would have worked many years ago.
The problem I see since 99 is that we put a foundation in place and then continually tear it down and start over. There is no continuity. Players were drafted for one scheme and then when there is regime change new philosophies are implemented and different type players needed for the new schemes on offense and defense. That is the reason I don't want to start over again but we have to have the right foundation to start with. Expectations were not high this year but I thought we would be better than this. Coming off 1-15 last year I thought we might get 6 wins this year and be in play off contention next year but we are staring at a winless season right now. Not seeing improvement from last year and that should not be a hard bar to achieve.
I would have liked to see us go a different route. A simple philosophy of hiring the best available as HC and the FO and then having the confidence to stay with them and give them time to succeed. In hiring the best to look at their track records. If they have a prior track record of success that is a good indication with time they will be successful with the Browns. I believe that formula would have worked many years ago.
Are you insinuating that the Browns didn't hire the best on purpose? It takes two to tango, just because the Browns want someone doesn't mean that person wanted the Browns. Look at some head coaches we've had recently, guys who didn't even get an interview with another team. There's a reason for that.
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The problem I see since 99 is that we put a foundation in place and then continually tear it down and start over. There is no continuity. Players were drafted for one scheme and then when there is regime change new philosophies are implemented and different type players needed for the new schemes on offense and defense. That is the reason I don't want to start over again but we have to have the right foundation to start with. Expectations were not high this year but I thought we would be better than this. Coming off 1-15 last year I thought we might get 6 wins this year and be in play off contention next year but we are staring at a winless season right now. Not seeing improvement from last year and that should not be a hard bar to achieve.
I would have liked to see us go a different route. A simple philosophy of hiring the best available as HC and the FO and then having the confidence to stay with them and give them time to succeed. In hiring the best to look at their track records. If they have a prior track record of success that is a good indication with time they will be successful with the Browns. I believe that formula would have worked many years ago.
Are you insinuating that the Browns didn't hire the best on purpose? It takes two to tango, just because the Browns want someone doesn't mean that person wanted the Browns. Look at some head coaches we've had recently, guys who didn't even get an interview with another team. There's a reason for that.
Are you insinuating that the Browns didn't hire the best on purpose? It takes two to tango, just because the Browns want someone doesn't mean that person wanted the Browns. Look at some head coaches we've had recently, guys who didn't even get an interview with another team. There's a reason for that.
Through the years since 99 the Browns obviously didn't think they hired the best for their positions or they wouldn't have fired them every other year. My guess is that turnover rate as much as anything now is a good reason many may not want to work for this organization. If they take the job will they be given enough time to turn things around before being fired?
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Interesting article supporting Tour's, War's and others' opinion on having to Trust The Process:
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You’d think at some point with so many GMs people would say “hey maybe they’re not the problem, maybe it’s something else.” But nope. People actually think it’s just GM’s faults that we’ve missed on so many first rounders.
We all sit here on pins and needles, so please All Mighty Glorious One, please enlighten us humble, simple knownuthins with your vast football knowledge as to what "the something else" is...
We all sit here on pins and needles, so please All Mighty Glorious One, please enlighten us humble, simple knownuthins with your vast football knowledge as to what "the something else" is...
The fact that we toss them every two years.
Interesting article supporting Tour's, War's and others' opinion on having to Trust The Process:
Exactly. And every fan should take the opening sentence to heart.
“Cleveland may not be strong enough to allow the plan to see itself through....”
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Interesting article supporting Tour's, War's and others' opinion on having to Trust The Process:
Interesting article supporting Tour's, War's and others' opinion on having to Trust The Process:
This entire "process" is based on the premise that the FO will actually draft NFL caliber players.
I don't have an issue with the ideology, I have an issue with their execution of picking players.
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Interesting article supporting Tour's, War's and others' opinion on having to Trust The Process:
This entire "process" is based on the premise that the FO will actually draft NFL caliber players.
I don't have an issue with the ideology, I have an issue with their execution of picking players.
This entire "process" is based on the premise that the FO will actually draft NFL caliber players.
I don't have an issue with the ideology, I have an issue with their execution of picking players.
Agree 100%..... It's not The Process that most of us are unhappy with, it's simply the execution of that process.
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There isn’t a team in the NFL that will stand pat in the FO, or HC through 5 years of suck age. Ain’t happening.
There isn’t a team in the NFL that will stand pat in the FO, or HC through 5 years of suck age. Ain’t happening.
49ers ownership seems to be prepared to... gave they rookie GM and HC 6-year contracts.
I would have liked to see us go a different route. A simple philosophy of hiring the best available as HC and the FO and then having the confidence to stay with them and give them time to succeed. In hiring the best to look at their track records. If they have a prior track record of success that is a good indication with time they will be successful with the Browns. I believe that formula would have worked many years ago.
Beautiful approach... also fanciful... also tried... also hindsight laden. Once upon a time we dropped a bunch of candidates in that hopper, turned the crank and out came... Holmgren. We haven't had a better hire to head our FO in forever... on paper.
Other wise look who we were able to attract, a/k/a "the best available". Who have we let go from the FO to this point that did not deserve to go? What FO can match what are current one has done cumulatively in all aspects of their function: trades, draft, UDFA, FA, signings? As for HC's... Mangini was let go too early ,IMO... and that was by the above machine output. Pet? I can make a case for him as well, but why bother... he's already been swept over the dam/under the bridge and out to sea.
We have always hired what we thought was the best available... who would be hired by us.
Interesting article supporting Tour's, War's and others' opinion on having to Trust The Process:
I wonder if I can sue for plagiarism?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
First, "Sashi's role", and the consensus approach it represents, is precisely what I believe in.
Second, we all can name players we did not pick that we'd have preferred in varying degrees due to hindsight. Most of mine are either darkhorse QBs or OL, but Ibranched out this year and nailed a couple FS's... and of whom would look pretty good in Centerfield this season freeing Peppers to be Peppers. But I also know I'd have missed Njoku and Ogunjobi and Dayes and Schobert and Kindred and...
I was lead to believe Sashi's role would be a marriage of analytics and football minds. Instead I haven't found that to always be the case and when we seem to give our obligatory "coaches pick" that goes off the rails as well. I.E. Kess and Peppers. Basically if we aren't picking right off of PFF's boards we're going with the "HE'S A FOOTBALL PLAYER RARRARARR" crowd. These are two dogmatic approaches that scare the Sheet out of me.
I can't really credit our current draft approach for finding Njoku or Ogunjobi. The former was a well sought after prospect that came to us during a run on his position and the other was dug up after our coaching staff was able to get hands on during the senior bowl. I yield Dayes, Schobert and Kindred. Though the first of those three has yet to see any meaningful NFL action.
I agree, we need to give this more time. But I still believe this organization, more than anything, needs a 'no' man. Someone that believes in the idea of what our FO is attempting, but is willing to interject some common sense and genuine football when need be. And vice versa, someone to settle down the "FOOSBALL PLAYAAAAA" bunch. As of right now, that person doesn't exist in this franchise AFAIC.
I was lead to believe Sashi's role would be a marriage of analytics and football minds. Instead I haven't found that to always be the case and when we seem to give our obligatory "coaches pick" that goes off the rails as well. I.E. Kess and Peppers. Basically if we aren't picking right off of PFF's boards we're going with the "HE'S A FOOTBALL PLAYER RARRARARR" crowd. These are two dogmatic approaches that scare the Sheet out of me.
I can't really credit our current draft approach for finding Njoku or Ogunjobi. The former was a well sought after prospect that came to us during a run on his position and the other was dug up after our coaching staff was able to get hands on during the senior bowl. I yield Dayes, Schobert and Kindred. Though the first of those three has yet to see any meaningful NFL action.
I agree, we need to give this more time. But I still believe this organization, more than anything, needs a 'no' man. Someone that believes in the idea of what our FO is attempting, but is willing to interject some common sense and genuine football when need be. And vice versa, someone to settle down the "FOOSBALL PLAYAAAAA" bunch. As of right now, that person doesn't exist in this franchise AFAIC.
Well... we went and got Njoku... traded back into the 1st with the Packers to get him. So there's that...
Not sure where you are getting your "either or" approach take. The whole purpose of the organization Sashi sits atop is to seek (and test) consensus. That both the scouting and analytical braintrusts can at minimum live with a player at a given pick or contract amount or trade package is at the core of the process. When the price is high, as in a Day One draft choice, that minimum level is likely quite high. By the time the decisions are around UDFAs... not so much. That one group or the other... or Hue representing the staff view... gets alternating choices over the objections of the other department is not in the process. That I can guarantee.
Let's look at Ogunjobi.... Do you really believe that a player who was selected to play in the Senior Bowl was not already on our radar? That neither scouting nor analytics had already done extensive work on him... and liked him? I don't. That Hue and Company may have come back from that game singing his praises was merely confirmation. Confirming the consensus output where they can is the role I see for the staff.
I don't see a deal like Rexy had with the Jets... where he got a pick a draft every year. I don't see Hue having "veto power" or "override power" should he either not want or want a player Sashi's boys do or don't like. To give the Staff that power would make no sense. Scouting and Analytics work year 'round identifying talent. Hue & Co. spend maybe two months doing so. The months they spend coaching a bowl, at the Combine, at Pro-days, conducting private workouts. If they are spending any more time, then they are not adequately focused on their primary jobs.
Might Kessler have been an exception? Possible that given the short prep time for the incoming FO Hue was given a little more weight in the process... maybe even given a one-off pick. We all saw Hue's warroom reaction, so maybe he was coveting Kess... but what we saw could have as well been based on "relief that we got him" as "I got my way/guy."
Bottom line... I see in our process a marriage of "PFF-like" evaluating (or SPARQ's or DePo-lytics) and the good ol' boy "Footsball Play-yah" scouting... not a tennis (or wrestling) match between them.
And I like it...
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The problem I see since 99 is that we put a foundation in place and then continually tear it down and start over. There is no continuity. Players were drafted for one scheme and then when there is regime change new philosophies are implemented and different type players needed for the new schemes on offense and defense. That is the reason I don't want to start over again but we have to have the right foundation to start with. Expectations were not high this year but I thought we would be better than this. Coming off 1-15 last year I thought we might get 6 wins this year and be in play off contention next year but we are staring at a winless season right now. Not seeing improvement from last year and that should not be a hard bar to achieve.
I would have liked to see us go a different route. A simple philosophy of hiring the best available as HC and the FO and then having the confidence to stay with them and give them time to succeed. In hiring the best to look at their track records. If they have a prior track record of success that is a good indication with time they will be successful with the Browns. I believe that formula would have worked many years ago.
The problem I see since 99 is that we put a foundation in place and then continually tear it down and start over. There
ishas been no continuity. Players were drafted for one scheme and then when there is regime change new philosophies are implemented and different type players needed for the new schemes on offense and defense.That is the reason I don't want to start over again but we have to have the right foundation to start with. Expectations were not high this year but I thought we would be better than this. Coming off 1-15 last year I thought we might get 6 wins this year and be in play off contention next year but we are staring at a winless season right now. Not seeing improvement from last year and that should not be a hard bar to achieve.
I jumped on the last part overlooking the first two... which I agree with... with the one minor change I made. The 3-4 to 4-3 to 3-4 wheel we were spinning was the most obvious example, but the scheme changes were there on Offense as well. Plus, under the same-old "foorball guru" FO structure, we made some very, very bad choices.
I would argue we now have a foundation that is closer to being right than we have had in a very long time. I too overestimated our 2017 progress as I thought a degree of competence would be wrung out of the QB spot in the form of Kessler. Kinda missed seeing what has transpired there.
This entire "process" is based on the premise that the FO will actually draft NFL caliber players. I don't have an issue with the ideology, I have an issue with their execution of picking players.
I checked... other than not being high on Peppers, you did not appear to have an issue with our draft at the time. What changed?
Gil Brandt tweeted. . . Browns added 9 players from my Hot 150 (Nos. 1, 21, 29, 33, 92, 132, 139, 146). No other team had more than 6.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
There isn’t a team in the NFL that will stand pat in the FO, or HC through 5 years of suck age. Ain’t happening.
49ers ownership seems to be prepared to... gave they rookie GM and HC 6-year contracts.
I would have liked to see us go a different route. A simple philosophy of hiring the best available as HC and the FO and then having the confidence to stay with them and give them time to succeed. In hiring the best to look at their track records. If they have a prior track record of success that is a good indication with time they will be successful with the Browns. I believe that formula would have worked many years ago.
Beautiful approach... also fanciful... also tried... also hindsight laden. Once upon a time we dropped a bunch of candidates in that hopper, turned the crank and out came... Holmgren. We haven't had a better hire to head our FO in forever... on paper.
Other wise look who we were able to attract, a/k/a "the best available". Who have we let go from the FO to this point that did not deserve to go? What FO can match what are current one has done cumulatively in all aspects of their function: trades, draft, UDFA, FA, signings? As for HC's... Mangini was let go too early ,IMO... and that was by the above machine output. Pet? I can make a case for him as well, but why bother... he's already been swept over the dam/under the bridge and out to sea.
We have always hired what we thought was the best available... who would be hired by us.
Interesting article supporting Tour's, War's and others' opinion on having to Trust The Process:
I wonder if I can sue for plagiarism?
49ers ownership seems to be prepared to... gave they rookie GM and HC 6-year contracts.
The niners are only 4 years removed from their last playoff appearance (5 from the SB). If they couldn’t retain the HC and GM after relatively successful seasons, just imagine how long they’re going to keep them if they suck?...it won’t be 6 years.
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The problem I see since 99 is that we put a foundation in place and then continually tear it down and start over. There
ishas been no continuity. Players were drafted for one scheme and then when there is regime change new philosophies are implemented and different type players needed for the new schemes on offense and defense.That is the reason I don't want to start over again but we have to have the right foundation to start with. Expectations were not high this year but I thought we would be better than this. Coming off 1-15 last year I thought we might get 6 wins this year and be in play off contention next year but we are staring at a winless season right now. Not seeing improvement from last year and that should not be a hard bar to achieve.
I jumped on the last part overlooking the first two... which I agree with... with the one minor change I made. The 3-4 to 4-3 to 3-4 wheel we were spinning was the most obvious example, but the scheme changes were there on Offense as well. Plus, under the same-old "foorball guru" FO structure, we made some very, very bad choices.
I would argue we now have a foundation that is closer to being right than we have had in a very long time. I too overestimated our 2017 progress as I thought a degree of competence would be wrung out of the QB spot in the form of Kessler. Kinda missed seeing what has transpired there.
This entire "process" is based on the premise that the FO will actually draft NFL caliber players. I don't have an issue with the ideology, I have an issue with their execution of picking players.
I checked... other than not being high on Peppers, you did not appear to have an issue with our draft at the time. What changed?
Gil Brandt tweeted. . . Browns added 9 players from my Hot 150 (Nos. 1, 21, 29, 33, 92, 132, 139, 146). No other team had more than 6.
I checked... other than not being high on Peppers, you did not appear to have an issue with our draft at the time. What changed?
My opinion of the FO has little to do with this years crop of rookies (although many aren’t looking promising).
My biggest bitch stems from the way they mishandled the WR position. They drafted 5 last year, brought in several FA’s and in the process let Benji & Hawkins go. From that point forward the WR has been a position of need. How did they fix it? They paid $32 million for 4 years for Kenny Britt. He’s played so bad, that he got benched 5 games into his first year. The 4 WR’s that started this past weekend against the Texans, 3 weren’t on the roster in week 1. I would say that reeks of desperation in trying to find competent help in the WR department. After all, the often injured Coleman has been less than stellar...whenever he plays.
I could type a novel about the QB position, but I’ll save that for another time.
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The problem I see since 99 is that we put a foundation in place and then continually tear it down and start over. There
ishas been no continuity. Players were drafted for one scheme and then when there is regime change new philosophies are implemented and different type players needed for the new schemes on offense and defense.That is the reason I don't want to start over again but we have to have the right foundation to start with. Expectations were not high this year but I thought we would be better than this. Coming off 1-15 last year I thought we might get 6 wins this year and be in play off contention next year but we are staring at a winless season right now. Not seeing improvement from last year and that should not be a hard bar to achieve.
I jumped on the last part overlooking the first two... which I agree with... with the one minor change I made. The 3-4 to 4-3 to 3-4 wheel we were spinning was the most obvious example, but the scheme changes were there on Offense as well. Plus, under the same-old "foorball guru" FO structure, we made some very, very bad choices.
I would argue we now have a foundation that is closer to being right than we have had in a very long time. I too overestimated our 2017 progress as I thought a degree of competence would be wrung out of the QB spot in the form of Kessler. Kinda missed seeing what has transpired there.
This entire "process" is based on the premise that the FO will actually draft NFL caliber players. I don't have an issue with the ideology, I have an issue with their execution of picking players.
I checked... other than not being high on Peppers, you did not appear to have an issue with our draft at the time. What changed?
Gil Brandt tweeted. . . Browns added 9 players from my Hot 150 (Nos. 1, 21, 29, 33, 92, 132, 139, 146). No other team had more than 6.
I jumped on the last part overlooking the first two... which I agree with... with the one minor change I made. The 3-4 to 4-3 to 3-4 wheel we were spinning was the most obvious example, but the scheme changes were there on Offense as well. Plus, under the same-old "foorball guru" FO structure, we made some very, very bad choices.
I would argue we now have a foundation that is closer to being right than we have had in a very long time. I too overestimated our 2017 progress as I thought a degree of competence would be wrung out of the QB spot in the form of Kessler. Kinda missed seeing what has transpired there.
I checked... other than not being high on Peppers, you did not appear to have an issue with our draft at the time. What changed?
I think one of the most screwed up things this season, and I like Hue and I may be wrong, but I think Kessler is the most talented QB on the roster right now and Hue is refusing to use him because his skills don't mesh with how he wants to run the offense. This is my biggest reason for wanting Hue to have an OC and its because he will not talor his offense to the talent he has on hand. I mean Hogan isn't much different from Kessler, he doesn't have a rocket arm and he doesn't have any real talent out there to throw to, and he designed the game plan like Derek Anderson was running the show. Other than the win lose record last year, Kessler had great stats for a rookie, but Hue was very open about the fact that he wanted the ball pushed downfield and Kessler couldn't do it.
Ruining threads since 1897. -
Interesting article supporting Tour's, War's and others' opinion on having to Trust The Process:
Interesting article supporting Tour's, War's and others' opinion on having to Trust The Process:
In the name of balance, and clearly points out blunder after blunder: (I already know that those that don't want to hear this will simply say, "who cares, it's MKC".)
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/10/jimmy_haslams_plan_isnt_workin.html
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I jumped on the last part overlooking the first two... which I agree with... with the one minor change I made. The 3-4 to 4-3 to 3-4 wheel we were spinning was the most obvious example, but the scheme changes were there on Offense as well. Plus, under the same-old "foorball guru" FO structure, we made some very, very bad choices.
I would argue we now have a foundation that is closer to being right than we have had in a very long time. I too overestimated our 2017 progress as I thought a degree of competence would be wrung out of the QB spot in the form of Kessler. Kinda missed seeing what has transpired there.
I checked... other than not being high on Peppers, you did not appear to have an issue with our draft at the time. What changed?
I think one of the most screwed up things this season, and I like Hue and I may be wrong, but I think Kessler is the most talented QB on the roster right now and Hue is refusing to use him because his skills don't mesh with how he wants to run the offense. This is my biggest reason for wanting Hue to have an OC and its because he will not talor his offense to the talent he has on hand. I mean Hogan isn't much different from Kessler, he doesn't have a rocket arm and he doesn't have any real talent out there to throw to, and he designed the game plan like Derek Anderson was running the show. Other than the win lose record last year, Kessler had great stats for a rookie, but Hue was very open about the fact that he wanted the ball pushed downfield and Kessler couldn't do it.
I care that it's MKC!
If she wants to take a victory lap over something she said last December, so be it. But after a ten month silence, it carries little weight with me... no matter the writer.
And then there's this pearl: "I wrote it last December and I'm repeating it here: A personnel trio devoid of anyone who's ever assembled a winning football team isn't going to fly."
- We've had supposed assemblers of "winning football teams" heading up our org. They failed.
- Assemblers of winning football teams tend to stay employed by the orgs for whom they've built winners.
Nothing like a writer following their fan base to keep readers.
I think one of the most screwed up things this season, and I like Hue and I may be wrong, but I think Kessler is the most talented QB on the roster right now and Hue is refusing to use him because his skills don't mesh with how he wants to run the offense. This is my biggest reason for wanting Hue to have an OC and its because he will not talor his offense to the talent he has on hand. I mean Hogan isn't much different from Kessler, he doesn't have a rocket arm and he doesn't have any real talent out there to throw to, and he designed the game plan like Derek Anderson was running the show. Other than the win lose record last year, Kessler had great stats for a rookie, but Hue was very open about the fact that he wanted the ball pushed downfield and Kessler couldn't do it.
Agree on Kess/Hogan similarities. Only added point I'd make is Kess really spit the bit in preseason. He wasn't close to the same QB that showed some promise in 2016... at least that's the impression I remember having of him then. Could well be that he was trying to run Hue's offense and secure the starting role he was in line to assume, and simply was not capable of doing so. And now we know neither is Hogan.
Hogan flashed some in two relief appearances. But if you reflect on his flashes, you can see his game was very similar to what Kess showed in '16. Both players' limited success came in the form of short to intermediate timing passes.
And that ain't Hue...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Interesting article supporting Tour's, War's and others' opinion on having to Trust The Process:
In the name of balance, and clearly points out blunder after blunder: (I already know that those that don't want to hear this will simply say, "who cares, it's MKC".)
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/10/jimmy_haslams_plan_isnt_workin.html
In the name of balance, and clearly points out blunder after blunder: (I already know that those that don't want to hear this will simply say, "who cares, it's MKC".)
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/10/jimmy_haslams_plan_isnt_workin.html
Beat me to it.
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She nailed it in that article.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
All those picks in 2018 ...we need someone with football knowledge to make the picks...not an executive with no footballing background and a baseball guy ....
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All those picks in 2018 ...we need someone with football knowledge to make the picks...not an executive with no footballing background and a baseball guy ....
All those picks in 2018 ...we need someone with football knowledge to make the picks...not an executive with no footballing background and a baseball guy ....
That draft cannot be underestimated in terms of how important it is. It should make or break the current regime.
If it doesn't work crooked Jimmy should sell up.
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