Ok are we done with hogan now?
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Ahabwasahahahahahahagahaha
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Can u furnish evidence that kizers problems were the result of slacking off? No ofc u cant. The kids a rookie who by all accts worked his Shmucking butt off in TC. He wasnt CFL ready when he reported to camp. Dude looked horrible the first few weeks. He's a rookie. He's a rookie that by all accts needed another year , or even two, of college. But we took him as a known project. We should hsve cut osweiler earlier and kept mccown, ce la vie
Why don't you take a week off and let us know?
Can't believe I missed this opening yesterday... 🥷
Hard to believe both of you guys miss the point. Well, I'll break it down. Getting benched might be a wake-up call for someone who has been slacking off. When I said does that seem to be the case to any of you guys I meant this:
It does not seem to me that DeSean Kizer has been doing anything other than working as hard as possible to do his very best on game day. Therefore I don't think that a wake-up call in the form of a bitching is probably going to help.
WSS
Hard to believe both of you guys miss the point. Well, I'll break it down. Getting benched might be a wake-up call for someone who has been slacking off. When I said does that seem to be the case to any of you guys I meant this:
It does not seem to me that DeSean Kizer has been doing anything other than working as hard as possible to do his very best on game day. Therefore I don't think that a wake-up call in the form of a bitching is probably going to help.
No... I got the point.
My point was you and Dbone and still are exhausting me... please take a week off...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Hogan is 24 years old. He's still young. But we need to play Hogan now.
Maybe in three years Kizer will be ready. I get that he wants to be now. I get that he really, really, really wants to be the 'Face of the Franchise' and 'The Guy' right now, he's just not... and there really isn't any chance of that happening for Kizer any time soon. Kizer is a long term project. Cost us scrapes, practically noting in terms of our overall draft capital.
Hogan is a better player than many here want to give him credit for. At least give him another game before you guys start jumping to conclusions. I don't care where you are drafted, what overall pick a player was. Sometimes it doesn't matter. But once you are here and the work you put in- does matter, at least to me. I owe Hogan another chance to prove one way or the other what he is.
Hogan's "first start" was disappointing. But for crying out loud, seriously. He didn't throw any picks in the second half. All of his picks came in the 2nd quarter. They came in bunches. You have no idea of what he really learned internally after that game. You cannot just write him off. Every QB in the National Football League has had a bad game. Hogan has never played that poorly in all the time that he's been here. He deserves a second chance to prove himself.
Why are you soo against that? In a season that we are literally winless. At 0-6. What are you afraid of? Afraid he might succeed?>
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain- -
Hogan is 24 years old. He's still young. But we need to play Hogan now.
Maybe in three years Kizer will be ready. I get that he wants to be now. I get that he really, really, really wants to be the 'Face of the Franchise' and 'The Guy' right now, he's just not... and there really isn't any chance of that happening for Kizer any time soon. Kizer is a long term project. Cost us scrapes, practically noting in terms of our overall draft capital.
Hogan is a better player than many here want to give him credit for. At least give him another game before you guys start jumping to conclusions. I don't care where you are drafted, what overall pick a player was. Sometimes it doesn't matter. But once you are here and the work you put in- does matter, at least to me. I owe Hogan another chance to prove one way or the other what he is.
Hogan's "first start" was disappointing. But for crying out loud, seriously. He didn't throw any picks in the second half. All of his picks came in the 2nd quarter. They came in bunches. You have no idea of what he really learned internally after that game. You cannot just write him off. Every QB in the National Football League has had a bad game. Hogan has never played that poorly in all the time that he's been here. He deserves a second chance to prove himself.
Why are you soo against that? In a season that we are literally winless. At 0-6. What are you afraid of? Afraid he might succeed?>
Why are you soo against that? In a season that we are literally winless. At 0-6. What are you afraid of? Afraid he might succeed?
I saw enough of Hogan's NFL arm "strength" to last me a life time. I know you don't believe that and are sick of hearing it, but it is what it is..... Hogan's a tough dude and I personally like him, but I don't want him under center for the Browns.
Kizer was drafted in the 2nd round, and that is a pretty significant investment, so the organization needs to find out if he is what they think he is, or if he is what his ex college head coach thinks he is..... and we only have 10 more games to lose to find out.
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Kizer IS what his ex-college coaches said he was. He's a young guy that needs to learn how play QB at this level. He isn't ready and he doesn't need to learn on the job. He's 21 years old. Kevin is 24 and READY to play in the NFL.
Russel Wilson had a 5 INT game last year. He won a superbowl before. Everyone has a bad game. Maybe you should make sure that wasn't the case with Hogan last week before you close the book.
The Texans played some good defense on us, do you think Kizer would have done any better that game? Because I do not.
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Kizer IS what his ex-college coaches said he was. He's a young guy that needs to learn how play QB at this level. He isn't ready and he doesn't need to learn on the job. He's 21 years old. Kevin is 24 and READY to play in the NFL.
Russel Wilson had a 5 INT game last year. He won a superbowl before. Everyone has a bad game. Maybe you should make sure that wasn't the case with Hogan last week before you close the book.
The Texans played some good defense on us, do you think Kizer would have done any better that game? Because I do not.
Kizer IS what his ex-college coaches said he was. He's a young guy that needs to learn how play QB at this level. He isn't ready and he doesn't need to learn on the job. He's 21 years old. Kevin is 24 and READY to play in the NFL.
Russel Wilson had a 5 INT game last year. He won a superbowl before. Everyone has a bad game. Maybe you should make sure that wasn't the case with Hogan last week before you close the book.
The Texans played some good defense on us, do you think Kizer would have done any better that game? Because I do not.
Wilson's arm talent (something that can't be taught) was evident from his first pre-season game, and Hogan's lack of it was evident last week. I'm not saying that just because you have arm talent you will succeed in the NFL (I see you there DA and Weeden) but you have to at least have a minimum level of it, and watching Hogan's out route balls showed he is seriously below the NFL minimum level.
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I have to disagree with you. I don't think that Hogan lacks the arm strength. There's been a lot of exaggeration in addressing this. You've SEEN Hogan throw those passes throughout the times he been in this year with plenty of arm. He had a bad game he does not a bad arm.
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I have to disagree with you. I don't think that Hogan lacks the arm strength. There's been a lot of exaggeration in addressing this. You've SEEN Hogan throw those passes throughout the times he been in this year with plenty of arm. He had a bad game he does not a bad arm.
I have to disagree with you. I don't think that Hogan lacks the arm strength. There's been a lot of exaggeration in addressing this. You've SEEN Hogan throw those passes throughout the times he been in this year with plenty of arm. He had a bad game he does not a bad arm.
I respect your opinion brother, but we'll definitely agree to disagree!
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Gotta love PoG.
Before last week's abortion of a start, he guaranteed that with Hogan as the starter, the Browns would be a playoff-caliber team NOW. He's Steve Young. He's the Browns franchise QB. He cures lepers. He can throw a football over TWO mountains.
After last week's start, "He's a young guy who needs to learn how to play in the NFL."
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Gotta love PoG.
Before last week's abortion of a start, he guaranteed that with Hogan as the starter, the Browns would be a playoff-caliber team NOW. He's Steve Young. He's the Browns franchise QB. He cures lepers. He can throw a football over TWO mountains.
After last week's start, "He's a young guy who needs to learn how to play in the NFL."
Gotta love PoG.
Before last week's abortion of a start, he guaranteed that with Hogan as the starter, the Browns would be a playoff-caliber team NOW. He's Steve Young. He's the Browns franchise QB. He cures lepers. He can throw a football over TWO mountains.
After last week's start, "He's a young guy who needs to learn how to play in the NFL."
lol- I was talking about Deshone Kizer.
Kevin Hogan can read defense's and play QB in the NFL now.
It's okay if you guys don't believe in him, as long as Hue believes in him. Hogan had a setback but he'll recover.
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Gotta love PoG.
Before last week's abortion of a start, he guaranteed that with Hogan as the starter, the Browns would be a playoff-caliber team NOW. He's Steve Young. He's the Browns franchise QB. He cures lepers. He can throw a football over TWO mountains.
After last week's start, "He's a young guy who needs to learn how to play in the NFL."
lol- I was talking about Deshone Kizer.
Kevin Hogan can read defense's and play QB in the NFL now.
It's okay if you guys don't believe in him, as long as Hue believes in him. Hogan had a setback but he'll recover.
lol- I was talking about Deshone Kizer.
Kevin Hogan can read defense's and play QB in the NFL now.
It's okay if you guys don't believe in him, as long as Hue believes in him. Hogan had a setback but he'll recover.
Haha you sure were, my bad!
I don't get the impression that Hue will start Hogan again if he can help it, though.
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Hogan is 24 years old. He's still young. But we need to play Hogan now.
Maybe in three years Kizer will be ready. I get that he wants to be now. I get that he really, really, really wants to be the 'Face of the Franchise' and 'The Guy' right now, he's just not... and there really isn't any chance of that happening for Kizer any time soon. Kizer is a long term project. Cost us scrapes, practically noting in terms of our overall draft capital.
Hogan is a better player than many here want to give him credit for. At least give him another game before you guys start jumping to conclusions. I don't care where you are drafted, what overall pick a player was. Sometimes it doesn't matter. But once you are here and the work you put in- does matter, at least to me. I owe Hogan another chance to prove one way or the other what he is.
Hogan's "first start" was disappointing. But for crying out loud, seriously. He didn't throw any picks in the second half. All of his picks came in the 2nd quarter. They came in bunches. You have no idea of what he really learned internally after that game. You cannot just write him off. Every QB in the National Football League has had a bad game. Hogan has never played that poorly in all the time that he's been here. He deserves a second chance to prove himself.
Why are you soo against that? In a season that we are literally winless. At 0-6. What are you afraid of? Afraid he might succeed?>
Hogan is 24 years old. He's still young. But we need to play Hogan now.
Sorry, you're not going to get your wish.
Hogan's "first start" was disappointing. But for crying out loud, seriously. He didn't throw any picks in the second half. All of his picks came in the 2nd quarter. They came in bunches. You have no idea of what he really learned internally after that game. You cannot just write him off. Every QB in the National Football League has had a bad game. Hogan has never played that poorly in all the time that he's been here. He deserves a second chance to prove himself.
Why are you soo against that? In a season that we are literally winless. At 0-6. What are you afraid of? Afraid he might succeed?>
I'm afraid he just possibly might look as bad as he did against the Texans. Those interceptions were terrible, especially the pick-6 he threw 8 feet over Johnson's head. One of the other ints was a flutterball, and he was high on his throws all day. Soooo, sure bad game, enough to get a fifth round qb we picked up off the scrap heap benched. He was given a one game audition. If he had played like he had in previous games, he would still be starting. Unfortunately- he picked a bad time to play like crap.
As to writing him off, KC's Andy Reid did- and though I don't like to admit it, but Hue knows around 100 times more about football than I do, and he just demoted your wonder boy to third string. Be realistic- Hogan isn't going to pull a Brian Sipe out of his butt.
I saw enough of Hogan's NFL arm "strength" to last me a life time. I know you don't believe that and are sick of hearing it, but it is what it is..... Hogan's a tough dude and I personally like him, but I don't want him under center for the Browns.
Kizer was drafted in the 2nd round, and that is a pretty significant investment, so the organization needs to find out if he is what they think he is, or if he is what his ex college head coach thinks he is..... and we only have 10 more games to lose to find out.
Regarding 0-6 D Bone and Po, the season is shot. Kizer was drafted buying a lottery ticket to see if he can' improve to be the guy. Kevin may have a long career ala Colt McCoy as a backup- somewhere, maybe. And if Kizer doesn't improve, we'll know damn well we have to use (probably the #1 overall again) on the top QB in the 2018 draft. In that scenario Hogan gets cut.
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So PoG, I agree with you that you can't judge the kid off one game. But if he's not available this week, what do you recommend? We play Kizer for a week or two then say "Hogan's ribs are good, he's going to start again"? That just seems too odd for a guy who showed nothing.
It's a tricky situation, although made less tricky by our fans who love bouncing from one QB to the other.
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So PoG, I agree with you that you can't judge the kid off one game. But if he's not available this week, what do you recommend? We play Kizer for a week or two then say "Hogan's ribs are good, he's going to start again"? That just seems too odd for a guy who showed nothing.
It's a tricky situation, although made less tricky by our fans who love bouncing from one QB to the other.
So PoG, I agree with you that you can't judge the kid off one game. But if he's not available this week, what do you recommend? We play Kizer for a week or two then say "Hogan's ribs are good, he's going to start again"? That just seems too odd for a guy who showed nothing.
It's a tricky situation, although made less tricky by our fans who love bouncing from one QB to the other.
Here's the thing War- I might have given Hogan one more start. To prove the Texans game was an aberration. Hue isn't willing to delay Kizer showing anything he has- and I'm OK with that.
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Hogan wanted to go this week, but I guess the ribs are too tender. Coach thinks it's a liability while there are healthier QBs waiting to play. I think that Hogan has shown enough to get to another shot. Kizer still needs to sit, we're going to get the chance to see if he can correct some of his mistakes after just a week. Two things could happen...
A- If Kizer lights it up and gets a win, he'll probably ride with Kizer for awhile.
B- If Kizer once again struggles I expect Hogan will be healed up well enough to go start in London. He's going to be the #2 next week regardless.
Hue understands that Texans are a hot team and we were playing on the road against a tough defense. He knows Hogan and he knows Hogan wants another go. He'll get a chance if Kizer struggles. Starting Hogan last week was the right choice. He's shown he deserves a chance to be the guy, he's out played Kizer every step of the way... except in the 2nd Quarter last week... but one week under those hostile circumstances isn't a large enough sample size to accurately judge his potential.
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Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
Let's take that fumbled pitch on the option. Yes, it was a terrible pitch, but don't you think you could've FALLEN ON IT, CROW?
I think Crow's momentum was such that he could not just stop and fall on that poorly pitched ball. And Kizer should never have blamed Crow.
I think Crow's momentum was such that he could not just stop and fall on that poorly pitched ball. And Kizer should never have blamed Crow.
I actually agree Orion, but if you were to ask Crow, I'm sure he'd tell you he still should've secured the ball. But you're right, Kizer never should've REMOTELY blamed Crow AT ALL. Kizer needed to say he completely messed up, and move on. That's it.
The bigger problem (to me anyways) is the panicking nature of Kizer in the red zone. It was VERY evident on that pitch, and I'm guessing that same panic-stricken feeling is with Kizer whenever he's in the red zone. Obviously I have no way to know this, but it's my guess to try and explain why Kizer is the worst NFL QB in the scoring area, and it's not even close. It's to the point now where if we get into the red zone (and that's a big "if" with this team), you can bet your paycheck we're going to do the safest plays imaginable that have a low chance of success, but a lower chance of turning the ball over. The one play that might work if run correctly is the QB draw near the goal line. Heck, it works against US every darn time, so why can't we try it? Issue with this play is Kizer also panics when he runs the ball. He's missed running lanes, slid when he didn't have to, run out of bounds with yards to spare, and doesn't look comfortable AT ALL running the rock. Anyways, the point is we're not going to be running anything too special in the red zone, so expect opposing teams to put 62 players in the box to stop the run, and expect a lot of FG's attempts.....which doesn't make me feel good AT ALL because our kicker is awful and our defense gives up 7, and not 3. Good times.
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I think Crow's momentum was such that he could not just stop and fall on that poorly pitched ball. And Kizer should never have blamed Crow.
I actually agree Orion, but if you were to ask Crow, I'm sure he'd tell you he still should've secured the ball. But you're right, Kizer never should've REMOTELY blamed Crow AT ALL. Kizer needed to say he completely messed up, and move on. That's it.
The bigger problem (to me anyways) is the panicking nature of Kizer in the red zone. It was VERY evident on that pitch, and I'm guessing that same panic-stricken feeling is with Kizer whenever he's in the red zone. Obviously I have no way to know this, but it's my guess to try and explain why Kizer is the worst NFL QB in the scoring area, and it's not even close. It's to the point now where if we get into the red zone (and that's a big "if" with this team), you can bet your paycheck we're going to do the safest plays imaginable that have a low chance of success, but a lower chance of turning the ball over. The one play that might work if run correctly is the QB draw near the goal line. Heck, it works against US every darn time, so why can't we try it? Issue with this play is Kizer also panics when he runs the ball. He's missed running lanes, slid when he didn't have to, run out of bounds with yards to spare, and doesn't look comfortable AT ALL running the rock. Anyways, the point is we're not going to be running anything too special in the red zone, so expect opposing teams to put 62 players in the box to stop the run, and expect a lot of FG's attempts.....which doesn't make me feel good AT ALL because our kicker is awful and our defense gives up 7, and not 3. Good times.
I actually agree Orion, but if you were to ask Crow, I'm sure he'd tell you he still should've secured the ball. But you're right, Kizer never should've REMOTELY blamed Crow AT ALL. Kizer needed to say he completely messed up, and move on. That's it.
The bigger problem (to me anyways) is the panicking nature of Kizer in the red zone. It was VERY evident on that pitch, and I'm guessing that same panic-stricken feeling is with Kizer whenever he's in the red zone. Obviously I have no way to know this, but it's my guess to try and explain why Kizer is the worst NFL QB in the scoring area, and it's not even close. It's to the point now where if we get into the red zone (and that's a big "if" with this team), you can bet your paycheck we're going to do the safest plays imaginable that have a low chance of success, but a lower chance of turning the ball over. The one play that might work if run correctly is the QB draw near the goal line. Heck, it works against US every darn time, so why can't we try it? Issue with this play is Kizer also panics when he runs the ball. He's missed running lanes, slid when he didn't have to, run out of bounds with yards to spare, and doesn't look comfortable AT ALL running the rock. Anyways, the point is we're not going to be running anything too special in the red zone, so expect opposing teams to put 62 players in the box to stop the run, and expect a lot of FG's attempts.....which doesn't make me feel good AT ALL because our kicker is awful and our defense gives up 7, and not 3. Good times.
Meh... at this point, every time I'm in the redzone I make Kizer throw it or call whatever I would call normally.
Adapt or die young man.But, I'm sure Hue is worried about his job so he will go conservative and call safe plays which will result in a field goal and a loss, so there will be no progression for Kizer and another loss for the Browns and dumb butt Jimmy will blow it up again and we will be back here in two years talking about the next coach losing his job.
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I tend to be parochial in my view of most things in life, especially football. In other words I judge things by the values and practices I believe in, and have seen work. Whether that kind of wisdom translates into winning in the NFL who the hell knows, but it's all I got. So this Kizer kid? My opinion going in was that I didn't think he had what it takes to be a franchise QB. However, nobody can argue that his physical skill set makes him the best bet for the long term.
So after 4 games the jury says what? Kizer stinks? My parochial thinking...........Hanrati, Gilliam, and Bradshaw. Didn't it take 3 years until TB finally emerged?
My personal opinion is that once Kizer was given the team to run, he should have remained in the captain's seat no matter what. What confidence can he have now? Will he have an anxiety about being pulled if he does goof up? I think tantamount to a QB realizing his full potential is having an unflappable champion behind him, and of course the HC is the best champion a QB can have. Hue seems to be behind his QB in the beginning of the season when optimism is high, but then when the pressure caused by losing creeps in, he changes course and looks for a win by making a change. Is this purely a good coaching choice, or is it the HC getting frantic? We don't know.
Again, being only able to judge these things by my own life experiences I harken back to learning a musical instrument, and even still today, learning a difficult new piece. At first, I sound like total crap, Over and over and over I make mistakes, lose my place, and basically sound like I have never played before. But then, it comes to me and before you know it I am ripping through the piece. I think a young QB also needs to be able to log a tremendous number of screw-ups before getting yanked out of his chair. Is 5 games enough? How he hell do we know?
I thought at the time of the draft that the Browns would have a QB quagmire, and sadly, once again they do. Regardless of who we think should be playing QB for the Browns, whoever that person is, the HC is the one who unequivocally has the responsibility of making that decision. If he chooses the wrong guy it could cost him his job. However, that is part of the territory. Herein lies the root of my negative perception of Hue. For whatever the reasons, internal or external, he does not seem to be gung-ho, Socksure confident of his QB. I think a QB has a vital need to be supported by a coach like that. I don't know if the switch to Hogan and the switch back sends messages to the staff, players and FO, but my gut tells me it does. I think Hue, by not sticking to his guy and his guns has robbed this team of the kind of confidence it needs to grow.
The good news is, this is still football. Kizer goes out and has one good game and upsets a good team, and all of a sudden all this BS about pulling people and being disorganized evaporates into a distant memory.
The Browns need to catch a break. Kizer, Hue and we all need to catch a break. In my own life I have had times when every damned thing that could go wrong did, When you are in the middle of that, getting out seems impossible. This team needs a spark, a break, some good fortune; aven if it is an "On any given Sunday" kind of break. I promise you, at some point, a Browns player is going to stand up and provide that spark. Maybe Kizer rips the Titans to shreds this week. Kizer needs Hue to be behind him the rest of the way.
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I had been ignoring your posts until coming on here on my phone from Spain before signing in. This one is quite reasonable Dr.G. Enjoyed the read and I agree.
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