"Read a lot into it. Quinn on track to be the starter"

Drunkandstoopid

Zombo said:
How did this "popular opinion" that Quinn is smarter come about? I've never seen anyone (that matters) allude to any difference in intelligence between the two QBs. His college coach said he picked up the playbook quick? Ok ... did we hear from Derek's? I know Quinn studies alot, but that doesn't make him smarter. He may be. I don't know. How do you know? He is Irish so maybe he is brilliant...
Again with the wunderlic ... the list of great QBs that scored lower than Anderson is as long as your arm.

Athletic? One can run faster, the other can throw longer. Too bad one of them is not black, then we would know for sure who the better athlete is.

But if we held a decathalon here would be my bets:

100 metres, Quinn

Long Jump, Anderson

Shot, Anderson

High Jump, Quinn

400 metres, Quinn

110 metres Hurdles, Quinn

Discus, Anderson

Pole Vault, Anderson

Javelin, Anderson

1500 metres, Quinn

And for some reason you (Leinart Lover) are offended that I (Quinn's original pimp) won't go further and say he's smarter and has a better personality. I don't know who's smarter, I think they're both smart enough for the job. I don't know whose personality is better, I think they can both lead just fine. All I'm saying is that Quinn is probably the better passer, and that should win him the job.

It's OK to like them both. Isn't it?

Zombo

I'll give the edge to Quinn on the track comparison, he might pick up a couple, but Anderson may surprise people on the hurdles... he ran it in highschool and apparently did quite well.

The whole Leinart love thing with Shep amazes me.. Leinart is DA, They're quite comparable, only Leinart has a history of playing with better teams, yet being less successful at the NFL level.

Zombo you're really starting to make me wonder if you're lum.

DeadWombat

@lumbergh said:
I also think it's that simple.
But this has also been the root of the golden boy's problems.

and as Chris Mortenson says, "Derek Anderson can throw the friggen football"

I too can "throw the friggen football"

It doesnt mean I can hit a running reciever 20 yards out on the fly while I'm about sacked from the weak side.

Derek. Has. Inconsistency. And not the type that can be cured with a laxative. I love the guy, he's very personable and capable of great throws but the guy doesnt seem to be able to repeat his successes.

Lumbergh

@jadbf said:
Zombo write way too intelligently to lower himself

good one Tonto.

Lumbergh

@deadwombat said:
I too can "throw the friggen football"
It doesnt mean I can hit a running reciever on the fly while I'm about sacked from the weak side.

that's right, it doesn't mean you can do that.

But Chris Mortensen didn't say it about you.

DeadWombat

@lumbergh said:
that's right, it doesn't mean you can do that.
But Chris Mortensen didn't say it about you.

I dont think he said that about DA either, just that he can throw.... at least, thats what I think he said. I cant really find your source anywhere, lummy.

...

Wait, this Chris Mortensen is the one you're talking about?

Chris Mortensen: One Of The Worst Reporters In Sports

Oh, of course its just some uninformed nobody trashing a "well respected" NFL analyst, don't mind the fact that his points have merit to them.

How come I don't see the majority of NFL reporters touting Anderson also? Last time I checked, NFL Total Access were set on Quinn, saying that Anderson should have been gone long ago.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-tota...QB-competitions

Drunkandstoopid

@shepwrite said:
TD/INT ratio translates to wins -- the top four are Young, Brady, McNabb, and Manning. Anderson throws too many picks and completes too few of his passes to win consistently in today's NFL.

Shep, you are looking at an overall career when you name these 4. DA's thrown the ball 927 times, for a 1.22 TD/Int Ratio. After 1100 attempts Peyton Manning's TD/Int ratio was nearly identical to DA's current ratio. Steve Young's was just a tad better after 1100 attempts. McNabb's was pretty good at 1.68 after nearly 1300 attempts, and Tom Brady's was the best of the bunch at a thousand throws, with a 1.76 TD/Int ratio... but still worse than the 2/1 I see thrown out as a minimum acceptable TD/Int ratio.

Then let's look at some heroes here... Kosar's was probably better than all of them, Sipe's was all of .83.... way worse than DA. So what does it all mean? Basically, you can't compare the first couple years of a QB's play directly to a career of stats that have improved over time.

I won't even bother to check up on some of the Hall of Famers and soon to be Hall of Famers TD/Int ratios in their early career, but I suspect I'd find a surprising (to you anyways) lack of 2/1 TD/Int ratios in the mix.

Drunkandstoopid

@shepwrite said:
That's not really the point, D&S. It's that today's NFL passing games are far more efficient than in the past, and three of the four best in history are playing right now. Back in the day, you could get away with 1.22/1, but that's not good enough anymore.
The goal is now 2/1 and a 63% completion or higher. Guys like Rivers, Rodgers, and Ryan will be doing that with regularity. Cutler, too.

You are now backing up poorly thought out argument, by stating a fallacy... Indeed, Rodgers has a 2/1 TD/Int Ratio... in 1 year of starts. Cultler's last year was a 1.38, career 1.45, lower than DA's '07 numbers... only year he got close was the year he threw 9 TS to 5 Ints. Ryan has a career TD/Int total of 16/11, hardly a 2/1 ratio, and lower than DA's '07 results. While you were whining about DA's TD/Int ratio in 2007 - Rivers' was WORSE.. he certainly hasn't been doing it with regularity unless 2 of the 5 years he's played counts as "regularity".

@shepwrite said:
Wait... you're disputing that NFL passing offenses have become imminently more efficient, with completion percentages and TD/INT ratios much higher now than ever before? And that three of the four top ratio guys are in their primes right now? That with almost every offense connected to the WCO in some way, and every defense connected to Tampa 2 in some way, the day of the mad bombers is long gone?
And I'm the one with a poorly thought out argument? Pot, this is kettle. You're black.

Wow. Delusion, thy name is drunkandstoopid.

I Lol'd at this....

Drunkandstoopid

@shepwrite said:
Wait... you're disputing that NFL passing offenses have become imminently more efficient, with completion percentages and TD/INT ratios much higher now than ever before? And that three of the four top ratio guys are in their primes right now? That with almost every offense connected to the WCO in some way, and every defense connected to Tampa 2 in some way, the day of the mad bombers is long gone?
And I'm the one with a poorly thought out argument? Pot, this is kettle. You're black.

Wow. Delusion, thy name is drunkandstoopid.

You are the one acting like all QBs are finished products in their first two seasons of starts. That's not the case with the 4 guys you first named, and they were your examples of "the best".

Then you followed it up with guys, who with the exception of Rodgers, have seasons with lower TD/Int ratios than DA did in his one full season predominate their statistical resumes so far, and thus far haven't reached the level of play you claim you expect to see out of DA. If they are finished products right now, then Rodgers has a huge edge on DA as a QB, but the other guys don't.

Now you suddenly are changing the argument to West Coast offense vs. the deep offense.... make up your mind. You give out examples of guys who supposedly have a 2/1 TD/Int ratio year after year, then when it's shown that those guys didn't initially have that, and the other guys you've named have yet to achieve that consistently if at all, you resort to changing the argument.

I'm thinking all of these guys have the potential to achieve a 2/1 ratio on a consistent basis, even DA. Heck, Quinn's got a good shot at it if he lives up to the hype and the line play is better than it has been the last couple of years.

I used to think you were a thoughtful reasonable poster, but after watching you change your position and make new claims every time the wind blows (remember, it wasn't me, nor Lums, who gave you the nickname "flag" last year), I'm not so sure.

Later,

Steve

Lumbergh

@shepwrite said:
That's today's NFL passing game... and Anderson doesn't fit it.

Ironically Anderson has better stats in every single category that shep pimps in this twisted Quinn crusade.

Riffer X

This is actually a damn good thread on both sides.

Queen Queer or Derek Bear Diva it's all good.

@shepwrite said:
That's not really the point, D&S. It's that today's NFL passing games are far more efficient than in the past, and three of the four best in history are playing right now. Back in the day, you could get away with 1.22/1, but that's not good enough anymore.

The last two Super Bowl champs were led by QB's with sub-1.22/1 regular season TD/INT ratios. Good defense and a strong running game can get you pretty far, apparently.

Lumbergh

@shepwrite said:
Quinn has exactly one healthy start on his resume... and he posted a 104.0 passer rating.

shep he's not getting a free pass for having a boo boo on his finger. especially when the doctor cleared him and he said it didn't hurt.

posting it 1,000 times isn't gonna change that.

Lumbergh

Aloysius said:
The last two Super Bowl champs were led by QB's with sub-1.22/1 regular season TD/INT ratios. Good defense and a strong running game can get you pretty far, apparently.

yeah but in "shep world" he retroactively jumped on the Eli Manning bandwagon right at the moment the Giants got hot. So according to him he was all over that.

Drunkandstoopid

Aloysius said:
The last two Super Bowl champs were led by QB's with sub-1.22/1 regular season TD/INT ratios. Good defense and a strong running game can get you pretty far, apparently.

Who needs Superbowl wins when you can have stats on your side?

Drunkandstoopid

@shepwrite said:
Eli Manning led a fairly mediocre playoff team... and then got insanely hot. You should look at those two indicators (completion percentage and TD/INT) starting with the last game of that season through Super Bowl. Pretty amazing stretch. Not coincidentally, that's when the Giants became a good football team. Alo should've stuck to the Steelers, the one great anomaly.
About that: Roethlisberger and the Steelers are odd ducks because they're so consistently dominant as a defensive team and in most years (not last) they're among the league leaders in rushing. Ben had an off year but he's a great quarterback who manages to make plays out of chaos as much as anybody. He's a 90-ish career passer who completes about 63 percent of his passes.

It's much easier to connect passing efficiency and winning, which Clayton has done, if you're looking for trends.

I'm trying to figure out how you can knock DA for his completion percentage and TD/INT ratio, then defend your hyping Manning who was playing at or below DA's level for the majority of 4 full seasons before having a breakout. You've said DA's numbers do not a QB make, but Manning's numbers prior to '08 were equivalent or shy of DA's.

OconRecon

Here's the list of QB's ABOVE DA in 2008:

25 Kyle Orton CHI
26 JaMarcus Russell OAK
27 Tyler Thigpen KC
28 Gus Frerotte MIN
29 Dan Orlovsky DET
30 Marc Bulger STL
31 Ryan Fitzpatrick CIN
32 Derek Anderson CLE

Not many of these guys are going to start in '09. Well, the first round draft choice probably will, but like Eli, first round draft choices get a longer leash.

So, out with the last ranked DA and in with the first round draft choice. I think that's that.

Farang

I'm starting to like Lummy's posts better now:

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Greythan

Ocon's post is a good one.

While the debate will rage regarding the cause of DA's poor 2008 and resulting view on his ceiling, the fact still remains that he's entering his fifth year (?) in the league and doubts regarding his systemic weaknesses remain (accuracy, decision making). How much longer do you invest in "developing" a guy no one thought to draft (sixth round still counts as being "drafted" I guess), was cut by a team without a QB, and continues to show the same negative tendancies? All this when you have a QB drafted in the first round sitting on the bench whom you were unwilling to trade when you had offers on the table?

Answer: No more investing in DA's development while Quinn remains an unknown. Hence, Quinn will get his shot.

Logical thought process to me and all we've ever wanted. Again, should Quinn flame out we'll then have to choose between re-investing in DA's development or finding a new QB.