So if Jackson is gone...
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“Yeah we need to stick with a guy. But I hate Hue and he sucks. So, you know, do whatever you want Jimmy. But yeah, um, I hope he stays. I guess.”
-Most of the fanbase
Solid convictions, guys.
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If the head coach position of the Cleveland Browns were to open up, there would be plenty of coaches banging down their doors to take it, as it's 1 of only 32 jobs on the planet like it.
All great coaches weren't great coaches until they became great coaches.....
If the head coach position of the Cleveland Browns were to open up, there would be plenty of coaches banging down their doors to take it, as it's 1 of only 32 jobs on the planet like it.
This point really means nothing.
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“Yeah we need to stick with a guy. But I hate Hue and he sucks. So, you know, do whatever you want Jimmy. But yeah, um, I hope he stays. I guess.”
-Most of the fanbase
Solid convictions, guys.
“Yeah we need to stick with a guy. But I hate Hue and he sucks. So, you know, do whatever you want Jimmy. But yeah, um, I hope he stays. I guess.”
-Most of the fanbase
Solid convictions, guys.
Well, you "play to win", so next year, if Hue goes 1-15, he doesn't deserve a 4th year. If we start progressing this year, and have some fire next year, we should keep him.
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I don't like Hue's clock management. I don't like his QB management. I don't like his play calling down near the goal line. But the team that the Harvard Think Tank has disassembled for him would make Don Shula look bad. - Sorry, not even close to answering the original question.
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I never liked Hue. Whether he is fired this week or in 10 weeks doesn't make much difference. There are several reasons why he will never be a successful NFL head coach, and why he will not be the Browns coach when we return to glory.
1) He does not believe in discipline. His team remains one of the most penalized, especially in crucial, potentially game-changing situations. After 1 pre-season half time the jury was out on this. One training camp is all it takes to dramatically change a team's discipline.
2) He is not a good game manager. He is horrible with the clock and his team is always disorganized and unprepared when things heat up.
3) He is not a man firm in his convictions, especially at quarterback where he is supposedly brilliant. His QB carousel has kept the Browns from developing any kind of momentum or identity. I would ask anyone to tell me what are this guy's core values? Is there anything that he absolutely can't tolerate? I sure have never heard him say it.
4) He is not respected. Say whatever you will, but the fact that people talk about who respected he is, is a sure sign that players think he is a dildo.
If the Browns lose it will suck. However, if taking another painful loss gets us free of Hue Jackson, then I honestly believe it would be a good thing in the long run. Sorry, but I hate this sonofabitch, I really do.
As much as I hate to say it, but most of what is said here I believe to be true. The only part that may be questionable is saying that Hue is not respected.
Hue DOES have to turn things around to keep the above from being fully completely accurate.
As much as I hate to say it, but most of what is said here I believe to be true. The only part that may be questionable is saying that Hue is not respected.
Hue DOES have to turn things around to keep the above from being fully completely accurate.
Let me clarify what I mean by respect. Hue is a gentleman and no doubt a hard worker. He has made a career in a field that few can survive in. He even has my respect in that regard. I am referring more to the many players who are dropping footballs, missing tackles, making penalties, etc. I believe that is a sign of disrespect. I just don't think that the majority of players revere this guy.
The Cleveland Browns have the hardest hit players in the NFL -
This point really means nothing.
It meant enough for you to take time and quote me... or am I just your new Johnny like man crush?
God I hope not.
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As much as I hate to say it, but most of what is said here I believe to be true. The only part that may be questionable is saying that Hue is not respected.
Hue DOES have to turn things around to keep the above from being fully completely accurate.
Let me clarify what I mean by respect. Hue is a gentleman and no doubt a hard worker. He has made a career in a field that few can survive in. He even has my respect in that regard. I am referring more to the many players who are dropping footballs, missing tackles, making penalties, etc. I believe that is a sign of disrespect. I just don't think that the majority of players revere this guy.
I am referring more to the many players who are dropping footballs
....basically just quoting the fact.
Ya know why players drop passes? Cos they're not conseratin' (gumby knows what I mean).
They're afraid of getting hit and gettin' a boo-boo (this was Braylon Edwards' problem).
They're trying to RUN with the ball before they even catch it. (happens a lot on curl routes...or anytime they wait for the ball)
Other than concentration there's body catchers that have balls bounce off of their pads (or facemask in Greg Little's case).
---------
sorry, now back to Let's Fire Hue and hire You Know Who.
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Its just not fair asking coaches to come in here and wirk with perennially the wirst rosters in all of football....abd only be goven 2 years max to turn it around. Im sorry but hue has to stay for 5 years if for no other reason then to show the nfl and potential future coaches clevland isnt a joke box anymore
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Its just not fair asking coaches to come in here and wirk with perennially the wirst rosters in all of football....abd only be goven 2 years max to turn it around. Im sorry but hue has to stay for 5 years if for no other reason then to show the nfl and potential future coaches clevland isnt a joke box anymore
Its just not fair asking coaches to come in here and wirk with perennially the wirst rosters in all of football....abd only be goven 2 years max to turn it around. Im sorry but hue has to stay for 5 years if for no other reason then to show the nfl and potential future coaches clevland isnt a joke box anymore
Outside of Da Bungles, no coach in the history of the NFL is going to get 5 years to turn things around.....
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Its just not fair asking coaches to come in here and wirk with perennially the wirst rosters in all of football....abd only be goven 2 years max to turn it around. Im sorry but hue has to stay for 5 years if for no other reason then to show the nfl and potential future coaches clevland isnt a joke box anymore
Outside of Da Bungles, no coach in the history of the NFL is going to get 5 years to turn things around.....
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This point really means nothing.
Millions of $ is nothing? Go back to Mungo
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Its just not fair asking coaches to come in here and wirk with perennially the wirst rosters in all of football....abd only be goven 2 years max to turn it around. Im sorry but hue has to stay for 5 years if for no other reason then to show the nfl and potential future coaches clevland isnt a joke box anymore
Outside of Da Bungles, no coach in the history of the NFL is going to get 5 years to turn things around.....
Outside of Da Bungles, no coach in the history of the NFL is going to get 5 years to turn things around.....
I don't think anyone is guaranteeing five years. I don't think two is enough when rebuilding a team. Again most of these players will begin to mature at around the same time.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Meanwhile back at the OP...
Let's say the Cleveland Browns decide to can Hue Jackson. As I recall the last couple of times people here were yip yip tipping that no coach of worth would ever want to come to Cleveland.
Then the Cleveland Browns landed the consensus most sought-after coach in the league.
So if he gets the boot what do you suppose the reason would be that other coaches wouldn't want to come here? The lack of commitment beyond two years? The mishandling of player acquisition and dismissal? Lack of input?
Love a string of rhetorical questions... also love answering them.
I don't think two coaches removed from Chud that commitment is a serious issue. Commitment in the form of a fully guaranteed contract is commitment enough for most candidates... even Browns candidates.
Mishandling "stuff"... Also a non-factor IMO. First, there's a significant lack of evidence. Second, any HC knows there's a business side to every franchise.
"Lack of input", a/k/a "control"... every HC wants it. Most HC's don't get it. Most that do get it, eff it up.
I said a couple days ago that so long as he holds, as in does not lose, the locker room, then Hue should be safe. To do so even while going 2-30 over two seasons would be a monumental feat... not accomplishment... feat. It would be testimony that the players believe in what I have been seeing/preaching/clinging to... that there is progress, if not success, but that success is coming.
Meanwhile back at the OP...
Love a string of rhetorical questions... also love answering them.
I don't think two coaches removed from Chud that commitment is a serious issue. Commitment in the form of a fully guaranteed contract is commitment enough for most candidates... even Browns candidates.
of course if you are a sought-after coach and your choices are among three or four teams and all but one you could trust to give you enough time to implement your program?
Mishandling "stuff"... Also a non-factor IMO. First, there's a significant lack of evidence. Second, any HC knows there's a business side to every franchise.
sure they do. Of course if I was a coach oh, and I had other options, I might shy away from the team who is going to spend the league minimum. Wouldn't you?
"Lack of input", a/k/a "control"... every HC wants it. Most HC's don't get it. Most that do get it, eff it up.
lack of input? Do you think being forced to play Johnny Manziel put the nail in Mike Pettine's coffin? You think we'd be better or worse if they haven't jettisoned as many average Veterans as they did? I understand the plan but it's like being a contestant on Hell's Kitchen and you're given five bags of seeds and it's expected of you to make a loaf of bread in 2 hours. Hello smelly old helmet how's my little darling today
I said a couple days ago that so long as he holds, as in does not lose, the locker room, then Hue should be safe. To do so even while going 2-30 over two seasons would be a monumental feat... not accomplishment... feat. It would be testimony that the players believe in what I have been seeing/preaching/clinging to... that there is progress, if not success, but that success is coming.
it might. Don't know exactly what the evidence would be going 2 + 30.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Outside of Da Bungles, no coach in the history of the NFL is going to get 5 years to turn things around.....
I don't think anyone is guaranteeing five years. I don't think two is enough when rebuilding a team. Again most of these players will begin to mature at around the same time.
WSS
I don't think anyone is guaranteeing five years. I don't think two is enough when rebuilding a team. Again most of these players will begin to mature at around the same time.
WSS
Which is exactly the Cleveland Browns is the biggest joke on the market. Known for letting a coach go after 1 or 2 years. Keep Hue a minimum of 3 years, if only to show we will put up with a coach whether he is doing well or not. This team (not FO or head Coaches) cannot afford to let another coach go so soon. I'll live with Hue not getting it done for another 2 years. But, at least, lets see what the FO does with our picks next year. At least give Hue that much and let him have some input.
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I don't think anyone is guaranteeing five years. I don't think two is enough when rebuilding a team. Again most of these players will begin to mature at around the same time.
WSS
Which is exactly the Cleveland Browns is the biggest joke on the market. Known for letting a coach go after 1 or 2 years. Keep Hue a minimum of 3 years, if only to show we will put up with a coach whether he is doing well or not. This team (not FO or head Coaches) cannot afford to let another coach go so soon. I'll live with Hue not getting it done for another 2 years. But, at least, lets see what the FO does with our picks next year. At least give Hue that much and let him have some input.
Which is exactly the Cleveland Browns is the biggest joke on the market. Known for letting a coach go after 1 or 2 years. Keep Hue a minimum of 3 years, if only to show we will put up with a coach whether he is doing well or not. This team (not FO or head Coaches) cannot afford to let another coach go so soon. I'll live with Hue not getting it done for another 2 years. But, at least, lets see what the FO does with our picks next year. At least give Hue that much and let him have some input.
Exactly my position even though I have a tendency to seem negative here on the board. I'm just not one of the sunshine boys. ( I have a sneaking suspicion the Harvard boys pulled the wool over the eyes of Jimmy and his dumbass wife).
But if you fold you never know what your opponent has in his hand.
And how much worse could it be?
WSS
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As much as I hate to say it, but most of what is said here I believe to be true. The only part that may be questionable is saying that Hue is not respected.
Hue DOES have to turn things around to keep the above from being fully completely accurate.
Let me clarify what I mean by respect. Hue is a gentleman and no doubt a hard worker. He has made a career in a field that few can survive in. He even has my respect in that regard. I am referring more to the many players who are dropping footballs, missing tackles, making penalties, etc. I believe that is a sign of disrespect. I just don't think that the majority of players revere this guy.
Let me clarify what I mean by respect. Hue is a gentleman and no doubt a hard worker. He has made a career in a field that few can survive in. He even has my respect in that regard. I am referring more to the many players who are dropping footballs, missing tackles, making penalties, etc. I believe that is a sign of disrespect. I just don't think that the majority of players revere this guy.
I am not sure how you make the leap from players failing to execute to a lack of respect for the coach. I mean, I do think the team lacks discipline, certainly. and that is coaching. Are you saying that a lack of discipline equals a lack of respect for the coach? I mean, maybe, in a weird way.....but it is a long twisted leap.
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Meanwhile back at the OP...
Love a string of rhetorical questions... also love answering them.
I don't think two coaches removed from Chud that commitment is a serious issue. Commitment in the form of a fully guaranteed contract is commitment enough for most candidates... even Browns candidates.
Mishandling "stuff"... Also a non-factor IMO. First, there's a significant lack of evidence. Second, any HC knows there's a business side to every franchise.
"Lack of input", a/k/a "control"... every HC wants it. Most HC's don't get it. Most that do get it, eff it up.
I said a couple days ago that so long as he holds, as in does not lose, the locker room, then Hue should be safe. To do so even while going 2-30 over two seasons would be a monumental feat... not accomplishment... feat. It would be testimony that the players believe in what I have been seeing/preaching/clinging to... that there is progress, if not success, but that success is coming.
Yes, it’s two coaches removed from Chud... in 4 years. And one of those regimes preached “long rebuild”...so I can still see how it would be offputting.
Once again, I point to the Haslam quote from this offseason - 2018 is the year they’ve had earmarked for us to see a swing. Not 2017. They’ve set their sights on 2018, and there must be a reason for that. My guess is that starts with the letter Q. I believe they have their eye on a QB that they think can operate Hue’s offense. Someone with the vision to see the field, the timing to know when to pull the trigger, and the arm to make sure it gets there when it should. They acquired the capital to make sure they’d be able to get him, whoever it is.
I like Kizer and I’ll stand behind him until I’m positive he doesn’t have it...but I was wrong about him being our preferred guy. It doesn’t add up. He’s a project that might pay off, might not...and there weren’t very many guys picked between him and Ogunjobi that would have noticeably improved us. I count two.
TL;DR- Hue stays and gets a QB
TL;DR
I need to start doing abstracts as well....
Agree with all else. My Chud point was merely that the one-and-done impulse has been suppressed... PROGRESS! A two-year hook is much closer to, if not, the norm.
I knew you would get it Homie, lol.
My name is Tour... and I'm here to help... plus...
"If we bring a little joy into your humdrum lives, it makes us feel as if our hard work ain't been in vain for nothing."
POP QUIZ: Name that movie...
Say what you want about Bill B, but if a player doesn't do what he asks, or slacks off, he cuts them or benches them immediately. Whether it be Randy Moss, or Ochocinco, or many many others.
Keep Hue till the end of the year and re-evaluate. If the team doesn't progress and gets worse, get rid of him (the key term is progress, not win). If we start playing with fire and it comes together, keep him for next year.
I'll go ahead and say I definitely don't want a new coach and a new system at this point. But we damn well better win more than 4 games in 2018.
Agree with your bottom line and the open question of "fire"... which could be Williams' role in a "Fire and Ice" duo, but...
Using Moss as an example? The Moss that posted three consecutive, 1000+ yd seasons for the Pats starting each of 48 regular season games during his stay? Doesn't belong in the same sentence with Ocho-couldn't-handle-the-demands-the-Pats-place-upon-their-WRs-so-he-Sunko...
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“Yeah we need to stick with a guy. But I hate Hue and he sucks. So, you know, do whatever you want Jimmy. But yeah, um, I hope he stays. I guess.”
-Most of the fanbase
Solid convictions, guys.
Well, you "play to win", so next year, if Hue goes 1-15, he doesn't deserve a 4th year. If we start progressing this year, and have some fire next year, we should keep him.
Well, you "play to win", so next year, if Hue goes 1-15, he doesn't deserve a 4th year. If we start progressing this year, and have some fire next year, we should keep him.
Don’t think anyone’s arguing that. We’re talking about this year.
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This point really means nothing.
Disagree... but there is an underlying issue: Are there 32 great NFL HC's "out there" at any one time?
History, pretty much says, "No."
Outside of Da Bungles, no coach in the history of the NFL is going to get 5 years to turn things around.....
Hold on there, h... there are more than you think. Since the beginning of the common draft the following HCs had 5-year stints in failed turnaround efforts...
- Alex Webster (NYG)
- John Ralston (DNV)
- Vince Tobin (AZ)
- Jim Schwartz (DET)
A couple of the above sniffed "turnaround", but could not sustain it. But there are others, e.g., Jason Garrett, who pulled their a$$es out of the fire in their 5th year.
While we like to think of the Bagels as staying a long time with their HCs, their list doesn't really support that their patience includes abject failures.
# Name Term Regular season Playoffs Awards GC W L T Win% GC W L 1 Paul Brown † 1968–1975 112 55 56 1 .495 3 0 3 UPI NFL Coach of the Year (1969, 1970) 2 Bill Johnson* 1976–1978 33 18 15 0 .545 – – – 3 Homer Rice* 1978–1979 27 8 19 0 .296 – – – 4 Forrest Gregg ‡ 1980–1983 57 32 25 0 .561 4 2 2 UPI NFL Coach of the Year (1981) 5 Sam Wyche 1984–1991 121 61 66 0 .480 5 3 2 6 Dave Shula* 1992–1996 71 19 52 0 .268 – – – 7 Bruce Coslet 1996–2000 60 21 39 0 .350 – – – 8 finger LeBeau ‡ 2000–2002 45 12 33 0 .267 – – – 9 Marvin Lewis* 2003–present 224 118 103 3 .533 7 0 7 AP NFL Coach of the Year (2009) -
Meanwhile back at the OP...
Love a string of rhetorical questions... also love answering them.
I don't think two coaches removed from Chud that commitment is a serious issue. Commitment in the form of a fully guaranteed contract is commitment enough for most candidates... even Browns candidates.
of course if you are a sought-after coach and your choices are among three or four teams and all but one you could trust to give you enough time to implement your program?
Mishandling "stuff"... Also a non-factor IMO. First, there's a significant lack of evidence. Second, any HC knows there's a business side to every franchise.
sure they do. Of course if I was a coach oh, and I had other options, I might shy away from the team who is going to spend the league minimum. Wouldn't you?
"Lack of input", a/k/a "control"... every HC wants it. Most HC's don't get it. Most that do get it, eff it up.
lack of input? Do you think being forced to play Johnny Manziel put the nail in Mike Pettine's coffin? You think we'd be better or worse if they haven't jettisoned as many average Veterans as they did? I understand the plan but it's like being a contestant on Hell's Kitchen and you're given five bags of seeds and it's expected of you to make a loaf of bread in 2 hours. Hello smelly old helmet how's my little darling today
I said a couple days ago that so long as he holds, as in does not lose, the locker room, then Hue should be safe. To do so even while going 2-30 over two seasons would be a monumental feat... not accomplishment... feat. It would be testimony that the players believe in what I have been seeing/preaching/clinging to... that there is progress, if not success, but that success is coming.
it might. Don't know exactly what the evidence would be going 2 + 30.
WSS
Meanwhile back at the OP...
Love a string of rhetorical questions... also love answering them.
I don't think two coaches removed from Chud that commitment is a serious issue. Commitment in the form of a fully guaranteed contract is commitment enough for most candidates... even Browns candidates.
1.) of course if you are a sought-after coach and your choices are among three or four teams and all but one you could trust to give you enough time to implement your program?
Mishandling "stuff"... Also a non-factor IMO. First, there's a significant lack of evidence. Second, any HC knows there's a business side to every franchise.
2.) sure they do. Of course if I was a coach oh, and I had other options, I might shy away from the team who is going to spend the league minimum. Wouldn't you?
"Lack of input", a/k/a "control"... every HC wants it. Most HC's don't get it. Most that do get it, eff it up.
3.) lack of input? Do you think being forced to play Johnny Manziel put the nail in Mike Pettine's coffin? You think we'd be better or worse if they haven't jettisoned as many average Veterans as they did? I understand the plan but it's like being a contestant on Hell's Kitchen and you're given five bags of seeds and it's expected of you to make a loaf of bread in 2 hours. Hello smelly old helmet how's my little darling today
I said a couple days ago that so long as he holds, as in does not lose, the locker room, then Hue should be safe. To do so even while going 2-30 over two seasons would be a monumental feat... not accomplishment... feat. It would be testimony that the players believe in what I have been seeing/preaching/clinging to... that there is progress, if not success, but that success is coming.
4.) it might. Don't know exactly what the evidence would be going 2 + 30.
- Are all the teams offering me the same total package money?
- No... not a team who is clearly dedicated to spending the minimum... but that's not us. If you think it is, then I have two syllables for you... Zeit-ler. Our spend is right where it should be right now. I would definitely not go to a team who has no idea how to manage the cap... Would you?
- First, Manziel, who I do not know Pet was forced to pay by anything other than the regression and/or injury of his starter, is from a time preceding this FO... so he is not germane. Second... what kind of "seeds"... IIRC "grain" is ground seeds... so if I have a grinder I can whip you up a loaf of Irish soda bread inside of 1.5 hours and take a 1/2 hour nap...
- Same evidence there was at the end of Chud's HC "career"... lack of hustle on field, etc... Then there's always "hanging around the players".... a/k/a "Management by walking around"... best technique there is for keeping the pulse of any organization.
Stick with me... you'll have an MBA in no time...
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