Not so fast on the NFL qb draft train for next year
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I really like Clayton Thorson, qb, Northwestern. But Ryan Finley is even better. I'm not impressed with Darnold and Rosen, etc.
What I would look for in a qb, is like Wentz... Let other goofs spar over Rosen and Darnold... and the other high rated qb's.
I would pick Thorson (second round?) or Finley (mid/late first round), in the first round. Finley could very well be rated Wentz high, if he really keeps on impressing in school the rest of the year.
I really like Clayton Thorson, qb, Northwestern. But Ryan Finley is even better. I'm not impressed with Darnold and Rosen, etc.
What I would look for in a qb, is like Wentz... Let other goofs spar over Rosen and Darnold... and the other high rated qb's.
I would pick Thorson (second round?) or Finley (mid/late first round), in the first round. Finley could very well be rated Wentz high, if he really keeps on impressing in school the rest of the year.
I told people that I thought perhaps the 2017 QB draft class would prove to be just as good or better than the 2018 class..and I think that may well still be true. But Oh so many said that 2017 was a bad year for QBs and the 2018 would become the next best thing to the 1983 draft class. Well, we will see.
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stats only tell so much. Indiana scared the heck out of Ohio State for a half - they are a very good football team. When a good defensegame plans to stop the run, any rb is going to have less yards. If you added Barkely and Ridley (wr) to the Browns' offense, it would rock.
BTW, Someday, the Browns have to find another Joe Thomas.
Zeke Elliot ran for 200 yards against Alabama. If it’s a one-off bad game, then ok. But 3 in 7 games? No bueno.
Zeke Elliot ran for 200 yards against Alabama. If it’s a one-off bad game, then ok. But 3 in 7 games? No bueno.
Not playing for penn st he didn't. in 2017, Ohio State had the #8 offensive line in college football.
The Penn state offensive line was 27th on the list. Their stats aren't going to be the same - not any kind of comparison
to their respective skill levels as rb's that I would go with.
https://athlonsports.com/college-football/college-footballs-top-50-offensive-lines-2017
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penn state has come along way in a very short time considering what had happened to their program. to draft RB first pick (let's say #3 pick) is just worrisome to me. QBs suck compared to last 3 years of stud pros. BUT who even knows any more?
dak prescott and watson i would have erased off the board....but wentz and goff?
doesn't analytics solve all these probs?
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Why is Barkley so hyped? He can catch the ball, and that's definitely enormously valuable, but his rushing stats are absolutely nothing to write home about. He was held under 3 ypc against Indiana, under 100 yards against Pitt (despite the starters playing the entire game), and if you take out his 33 yard long run (a practice I like to do to get more of a median ypc) against Georgia State, he had 9 carries for 14 yards.
Why is Barkley so hyped? He can catch the ball, and that's definitely enormously valuable, but his rushing stats are absolutely nothing to write home about. He was held under 3 ypc against Indiana, under 100 yards against Pitt (despite the starters playing the entire game), and if you take out his 33 yard long run (a practice I like to do to get more of a median ypc) against Georgia State, he had 9 carries for 14 yards.
If you don't understand the hype about Barkley you've haven't watched the dude play. I'd make a logical argument he's a better prospect than Ezekial Elliott and Lenoard Fournette. I'm not saying the dude is right for the Browns, but he's a beast.
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QB next year so we can take nicky b. the following year.
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I really like Clayton Thorson, qb, Northwestern. But Ryan Finley is even better. I'm not impressed with Darnold and Rosen, etc.
What I would look for in a qb, is like Wentz... Let other goofs spar over Rosen and Darnold... and the other high rated qb's.
I would pick Thorson (second round?) or Finley (mid/late first round), in the first round. Finley could very well be rated Wentz high, if he really keeps on impressing in school the rest of the year.
Too damn early to start worrying Cal. It will get sorted out in due time.
Too damn early to start worrying Cal. It will get sorted out in due time.
It’s never too early to start worrying. Browns are terrible at developing QBs, so taking a project guy may not be as good as taking the most pro ready QB, which would be Rosen. Hell, with a half dozen picks in the first two rounds the Browns could take several QBs, keep the one who looks best and trade the other for yet more draft picks. This is such a mother lode that the FO surely could not eff it up. I read somewhere that Rosen might stay in school another year rather than risk going to the Browns, though. Worst case scenario, Steelers trade up to get Rosen, they plug him in and he develops just as B.B. retires, to torture the Browns for the next 10 or 15 years.
We live in interesting times.
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it's a lot easier to develop a young qb when he has terrific skill people, and offensive linemen, around him.
If you do get a top qb, THEN you don't have to draft one, and you can hopefully fix your oline, rb/te/ and wr situation
before your qb gets his career cut short with injury. I see greatness in Kizer as a possibility - it's still very early.
If Troy Aikman can be 0-11 his rookie year, by golly if Kizer starts getting it this Sunday, we're good to go.
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From yahoo fantasy football:
"Sammy Watkins caught 1-of-4 targets for 11 yards in the Rams' Week 6 win over the Jaguars.
Advice: It was Watkins' third straight week on a milk carton with Jared Goff struggling mightily under center. One of his missed connections was a would-be 58-yard touchdown where Goff uncorked an inexcusably inaccurate pass under little-to-no-pressure."
It just isn't easy. I'm looking for Kizer to turn the corner !
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I really like Clayton Thorson, qb, Northwestern. But Ryan Finley is even better. I'm not impressed with Darnold and Rosen, etc.
What I would look for in a qb, is like Wentz... Let other goofs spar over Rosen and Darnold... and the other high rated qb's.
I would pick Thorson (second round?) or Finley (mid/late first round), in the first round. Finley could very well be rated Wentz high, if he really keeps on impressing in school the rest of the year.
Attaboy... hang in there, cal. It can happen...
I really like Clayton Thorson, qb, Northwestern. But Ryan Finley is even better. I'm not impressed with Darnold and Rosen, etc.
What I would look for in a qb, is like Wentz... Let other goofs spar over Rosen and Darnold... and the other high rated qb's.
I would pick Thorson (second round?) or Finley (mid/late first round), in the first round. Finley could very well be rated Wentz high, if he really keeps on impressing in school the rest of the year.
Finding QB nuggets is fun isn't it?
Second Request: What are you seeing in Thorson?
I like Finley as well. This year as opposed to last he is showing up in big games against better opponents. Still not in in my 2018 sleeper mix... yet... but I'm looking.
Why is Barkely hyped? He runs a 4.33, That's over 225 lbs. He as 5* agility, explosiveness...is being compared to Zeke Elliot - maybe even better. Sure, the link is a few highlights playing Akron. But he has made USC look silly, too. He is that special.
Looking forward to seeing him tonite. It'll be my first time this season.
What I do not get, however, in the absence of seeing him is how he is the consensus Heisman frontrunner despite not being in the TOP 20 of any collegiate rushing stat.
Click on "Expand All Leaderboards" at top of table... https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2017-leaders.html
Inception.
... or Catch-22...
Great book... and worst movie adaptation I've ever seen.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Too damn early to start worrying Cal. It will get sorted out in due time.
It’s never too early to start worrying. Browns are terrible at developing QBs, so taking a project guy may not be as good as taking the most pro ready QB, which would be Rosen. Hell, with a half dozen picks in the first two rounds the Browns could take several QBs, keep the one who looks best and trade the other for yet more draft picks. This is such a mother lode that the FO surely could not eff it up. I read somewhere that Rosen might stay in school another year rather than risk going to the Browns, though. Worst case scenario, Steelers trade up to get Rosen, they plug him in and he develops just as B.B. retires, to torture the Browns for the next 10 or 15 years.
We live in interesting times.
It’s never too early to start worrying. Browns are terrible at developing QBs, so taking a project guy may not be as good as taking the most pro ready QB, which would be Rosen. Hell, with a half dozen picks in the first two rounds the Browns could take several QBs, keep the one who looks best and trade the other for yet more draft picks. This is such a mother lode that the FO surely could not eff it up. I read somewhere that Rosen might stay in school another year rather than risk going to the Browns, though. Worst case scenario, Steelers trade up to get Rosen, they plug him in and he develops just as B.B. retires, to torture the Browns for the next 10 or 15 years.
We live in interesting times.
Regardless if Kizer shows promise or not... MHO, draft a qb with one of the two first round picks....
PS- Wyoming (Josh Allen) is on ESPN2 @ 1030 PM EST.
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stats only tell so much. Indiana scared the heck out of Ohio State for a half - they are a very good football team. When a good defensegame plans to stop the run, any rb is going to have less yards. If you added Barkely and Ridley (wr) to the Browns' offense, it would rock.
BTW, Someday, the Browns have to find another Joe Thomas.
Zeke Elliot ran for 200 yards against Alabama. If it’s a one-off bad game, then ok. But 3 in 7 games? No bueno.
Zeke Elliot ran for 200 yards against Alabama. If it’s a one-off bad game, then ok. But 3 in 7 games? No bueno.
How many bad games did Fournette have last year?
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Attaboy... hang in there, cal. It can happen...
I really like Clayton Thorson, qb, Northwestern. But Ryan Finley is even better. I'm not impressed with Darnold and Rosen, etc.
What I would look for in a qb, is like Wentz... Let other goofs spar over Rosen and Darnold... and the other high rated qb's.
I would pick Thorson (second round?) or Finley (mid/late first round), in the first round. Finley could very well be rated Wentz high, if he really keeps on impressing in school the rest of the year.
Finding QB nuggets is fun isn't it?
Second Request: What are you seeing in Thorson?
I like Finley as well. This year as opposed to last he is showing up in big games against better opponents. Still not in in my 2018 sleeper mix... yet... but I'm looking.
Why is Barkely hyped? He runs a 4.33, That's over 225 lbs. He as 5* agility, explosiveness...is being compared to Zeke Elliot - maybe even better. Sure, the link is a few highlights playing Akron. But he has made USC look silly, too. He is that special.
Looking forward to seeing him tonite. It'll be my first time this season.
What I do not get, however, in the absence of seeing him is how he is the consensus Heisman frontrunner despite not being in the TOP 20 of any collegiate rushing stat.
Click on "Expand All Leaderboards" at top of table... https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2017-leaders.html
Inception.
... or Catch-22...
Great book... and worst movie adaptation I've ever seen.
Second Request: What are you seeing in Thorson?
Tuned into Iowa-NWern game about midway thru Q1... was just background viewing, but rewound and just watched every offensive play.
Thorson +'s: nice throwing mechanics, nice size, decent arm and does go thru progressions.
Thorson -'s: overall impression... very mechanical... no field vision, no internal clock, lacks foot speed... even evident in his 3-step drops out of the gun, poor acceleration = no escapability, poor decision-making on read-option run, no evidence of improv skill.
I will say that he is badly cast in a read-option Offense, but such is life for a College QB these days.
Of course this is only one-half-ish of one game focus, but is confirming general impression of briefer glances his way a couple times earlier this year.
Did spend a little time iso-ing the NWern LB the announcers were gushing about... Frasier. Meh... ran into contact of releasing OL significant majority of time. And did not live up to sideline-to-sideline, "one of the top LBs in the country" billing bestowed upon him. I was more impressed by the LB wearing #10 next to him.
Not a lot of talent on this field this day...
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Sorry Tour, somehow I lost that post about Thorson. I'll start over.
He's listed in the top five underclassmen by Kiper. Trevor Siemian was his predecessor at Northwestern, and he is starting
for the Broncos ahead of Lynch and Osweiller. Thorson has a stronger arm, and his accuracy is outstanding... will have a stronger
legacy left behind that Siemian...is very, very smart... He is also mobile and can really take off. He has the size, the moxie,
the character, he plays like he loves the game. I haven't seen Josh Allen, but I can imagine him being picked over Rosen and Darnold
no question in my mind about it. I like Thorson for his excellent improvement over last year, and his accuracy is outstanding, where Allen's is not on the same level... Thorson's mental development really
took off, ... from a year ago.
Me, if I were drafting, I'd have Thorson, Finley and Allen as the three qb's who would fit what I was looking for. I don't care about
all the stats all that much - stats reflect a lot of factors - like scheme, and the talent or lack of talent around him, what
competition he faces .... If Finley is still at 186 lbs, that is going to be a bit tough on him I think. If I were picking a qb with
the #1 overall pick, it would be Allen. Or, I would be happy with Barkely and picking Thorson a bit later. But it's way early,
like we saw with Wentz climbing everybody's charts his senior year. Thorson may stay in school. But if he comes out to the draft..
if I could get him in the second round, I'd laugh all the way to the bank.
"He’s grown tremendously since his freshman season, and if Thorson can continue to develop, it may well be be the second consecutive year a WildDawg opts for the NFL early. Thorson has the size, athleticism, and intangibles to be an early selection in 2018. With an improvement on last year’s promising season, the Wheaton native could be among the first 32 selections. Even if Thorson has a similar year to 2016, he could hear his name called on the first two days of the NFL Draft.
Back in November, ESPN’s Mel Kiper had Thorson on his list of Top 10 quarterback prospects for the 2017 draft, which went relatively unnoticed. Thorson will very likely be on Kiper’s list for 2018. It will be a good year for quarterbacks, possibly headlined by Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen from the Pac-12, Heisman winner Lamar Jackson, and Wyoming’s Josh Allen. With a strong junior year, Thorson may find himself on that list as well."
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I really like Clayton Thorson, qb, Northwestern. But Ryan Finley is even better. I'm not impressed with Darnold and Rosen, etc.
What I would look for in a qb, is like Wentz... Let other goofs spar over Rosen and Darnold... and the other high rated qb's.
I would pick Thorson (second round?) or Finley (mid/late first round), in the first round. Finley could very well be rated Wentz high, if he really keeps on impressing in school the rest of the year.
I really like Clayton Thorson, qb, Northwestern. But Ryan Finley is even better. I'm not impressed with Darnold and Rosen, etc.
What I would look for in a qb, is like Wentz... Let other goofs spar over Rosen and Darnold... and the other high rated qb's.
I would pick Thorson (second round?) or Finley (mid/late first round), in the first round. Finley could very well be rated Wentz high, if he really keeps on impressing in school the rest of the year.
Wentz was a high rated QB...
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Zeke Elliot ran for 200 yards against Alabama. If it’s a one-off bad game, then ok. But 3 in 7 games? No bueno.
Not playing for penn st he didn't. in 2017, Ohio State had the #8 offensive line in college football.
The Penn state offensive line was 27th on the list. Their stats aren't going to be the same - not any kind of comparison
to their respective skill levels as rb's that I would go with.
https://athlonsports.com/college-football/college-footballs-top-50-offensive-lines-2017
Not playing for penn st he didn't. in 2017, Ohio State had the #8 offensive line in college football.
The Penn state offensive line was 27th on the list. Their stats aren't going to be the same - not any kind of comparison
to their respective skill levels as rb's that I would go with.
https://athlonsports.com/college-football/college-footballs-top-50-offensive-lines-2017
27’s still plenty solid.
If you don't understand the hype about Barkley you've haven't watched the dude play. I'd make a logical argument he's a better prospect than Ezekial Elliott and Lenoard Fournette. I'm not saying the dude is right for the Browns, but he's a beast.
Then it should show up in the stats.
How many bad games did Fournette have last year?
Everyone came off the Fournette hype throughout the year last year though. And I don’t recall anyone saying he should go 1 overall.
Also, despite having a terrible year he still had a slightly higher ypc than does Barkley so far. And he had 1,900 yards as a sophomore. And the only really bad games he had as a junior were Florida and Alabama and he was hurt much of the year. I’d love to see Barkley play the SEC’s division champions....
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I really like Clayton Thorson, qb, Northwestern. But Ryan Finley is even better. I'm not impressed with Darnold and Rosen, etc.
What I would look for in a qb, is like Wentz... Let other goofs spar over Rosen and Darnold... and the other high rated qb's.
I would pick Thorson (second round?) or Finley (mid/late first round), in the first round. Finley could very well be rated Wentz high, if he really keeps on impressing in school the rest of the year.
Wentz was a high rated QB...
Wentz was a high rated QB...
yes, he was. You misunderstood what I was saying.
BTW, He was generally figured to go in the mid first round, but went up the charts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carson_Wentz
"In February 2016, most analysts had Wentz projected to be selected in the mid-first round of the draft.[18][19][20] However, Wentz began to be regarded as a Top 10 prospect after his pro day. "
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Sorry Tour, somehow I lost that post about Thorson. I'll start over.
He's listed in the top five underclassmen by Kiper. Trevor Siemian was his predecessor at Northwestern, and he is starting
for the Broncos ahead of Lynch and Osweiller. Thorson has a stronger arm, and his accuracy is outstanding... will have a stronger
legacy left behind that Siemian...is very, very smart... He is also mobile and can really take off. He has the size, the moxie,
the character, he plays like he loves the game. I haven't seen Josh Allen, but I can imagine him being picked over Rosen and Darnold
no question in my mind about it. I like Thorson for his excellent improvement over last year, and his accuracy is outstanding, where Allen's is not on the same level... Thorson's mental development really
took off, ... from a year ago.
Me, if I were drafting, I'd have Thorson, Finley and Allen as the three qb's who would fit what I was looking for. I don't care about
all the stats all that much - stats reflect a lot of factors - like scheme, and the talent or lack of talent around him, what
competition he faces .... If Finley is still at 186 lbs, that is going to be a bit tough on him I think. If I were picking a qb with
the #1 overall pick, it would be Allen. Or, I would be happy with Barkely and picking Thorson a bit later. But it's way early,
like we saw with Wentz climbing everybody's charts his senior year. Thorson may stay in school. But if he comes out to the draft..
if I could get him in the second round, I'd laugh all the way to the bank.
"He’s grown tremendously since his freshman season, and if Thorson can continue to develop, it may well be be the second consecutive year a WildDawg opts for the NFL early. Thorson has the size, athleticism, and intangibles to be an early selection in 2018. With an improvement on last year’s promising season, the Wheaton native could be among the first 32 selections. Even if Thorson has a similar year to 2016, he could hear his name called on the first two days of the NFL Draft.
Back in November, ESPN’s Mel Kiper had Thorson on his list of Top 10 quarterback prospects for the 2017 draft, which went relatively unnoticed. Thorson will very likely be on Kiper’s list for 2018. It will be a good year for quarterbacks, possibly headlined by Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen from the Pac-12, Heisman winner Lamar Jackson, and Wyoming’s Josh Allen. With a strong junior year, Thorson may find himself on that list as well."
Sorry Tour, somehow I lost that post about Thorson. I'll start over.
Thanks, cal...
IIRC you put like a Round 5 grade on Thorson. I can agree with a Day 3-ish grade, but need to see better movement to go as high as R5... something Siemian has... something as I wrote above I've not seen in Thorson... yet.
Haven't seen Allen or Finley as yet, but the latter is popping up in a lot of top 20 stat categories... as is my super secret sleeper...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Sorry Tour, somehow I lost that post about Thorson. I'll start over.
Thanks, cal...
IIRC you put like a Round 5 grade on Thorson. I can agree with a Day 3-ish grade, but need to see better movement to go as high as R5... something Siemian has... something as I wrote above I've not seen in Thorson... yet.
Haven't seen Allen or Finley as yet, but the latter is popping up in a lot of top 20 stat categories... as is my super secret sleeper...
Haven't seen Finley as yet, but the latter is popping up in a lot of top 20 stat categories... as is my super secret sleeper...
Enjoy watching the 25th ranked OL in the country at NC State.nicknamed "The Band of Brothers".I'd rank them much higher..Got a good look last week at Pitt what would happen to Finley if a team took his running game away? Finley passed that test too..So many here in NC compare Finley to Glennon? Am seeing much better in Finley than Glennon..
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Not playing for penn st he didn't. in 2017, Ohio State had the #8 offensive line in college football.
The Penn state offensive line was 27th on the list. Their stats aren't going to be the same - not any kind of comparison
to their respective skill levels as rb's that I would go with.
https://athlonsports.com/college-football/college-footballs-top-50-offensive-lines-2017
27’s still plenty solid.
If you don't understand the hype about Barkley you've haven't watched the dude play. I'd make a logical argument he's a better prospect than Ezekial Elliott and Lenoard Fournette. I'm not saying the dude is right for the Browns, but he's a beast.
Then it should show up in the stats.
How many bad games did Fournette have last year?
Everyone came off the Fournette hype throughout the year last year though. And I don’t recall anyone saying he should go 1 overall.
Also, despite having a terrible year he still had a slightly higher ypc than does Barkley so far. And he had 1,900 yards as a sophomore. And the only really bad games he had as a junior were Florida and Alabama and he was hurt much of the year. I’d love to see Barkley play the SEC’s division champions....
27’s still plenty solid.
Then it should show up in the stats.
Everyone came off the Fournette hype throughout the year last year though. And I don’t recall anyone saying he should go 1 overall.
Also, despite having a terrible year he still had a slightly higher ypc than does Barkley so far. And he had 1,900 yards as a sophomore. And the only really bad games he had as a junior were Florida and Alabama and he was hurt much of the year. I’d love to see Barkley play the SEC’s division champions....
If only he was already having a dominant game against a great college defense!
.........
Edit: Lol
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Yet again, sans his long of 69, he threw up under 3 ypc.
So so are we just gonna count on him busting 50+ yard runs routinely in the NFL to have a respectable average?
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