The... I am batting (maybe alone) for the front office thread
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Q: What do you call a lawyer with an IQ of 100?
A: Your Honor.
Q: What do you call a lawyer with an IQ of 50
A: Senator. -
I have answered that question probably a dozen times hoss. Look around.
You said in another thread :
Why do you believe, so hardly, that Sashi's process will probably work?
War: I could answer, but that’s not nearly as important as why I KNOW that blowing it up again will NOT work. And history supports my side so strongly that if this were a fight they would end it.
Meaning, you directly DIDN'T answer the question. I'm not arguing to blow it up at all. I'm arguing give me reason why you believe it will likely work. If you can't do that and continue to generalize every Browns fan as a F.O. plan hater, then you absolutely have Sheet logic.
You said in another thread :
War: I could answer, but that’s not nearly as important as why I KNOW that blowing it up again will NOT work. And history supports my side so strongly that if this were a fight they would end it.
Meaning, you directly DIDN'T answer the question. I'm not arguing to blow it up at all. I'm arguing give me reason why you believe it will likely work. If you can't do that and continue to generalize every Browns fan as a F.O. plan hater, then you absolutely have Sheet logic.
Correct. What you quoted is my answer. And it is perfectly sound logic. I don't know that our way will work (though I could toss out some positive points for it). But I know and have observed multiple times that everyone else's way will not.
The obvious difference is stillmotion's plan - hire football men and let them run the team - has worked in NFL history. It didn't work here because the wrong football men were hired.
Your plan has zero track record of success. There's probably a reason NFL teams haven't hired a lawyer and a baseball guy to run their teams.
And yet it has failed over and over again in Browns history. So which is more directly relevant to us?
Furthermore, even with "football men" (and this is the most ignorant talking point that gets tossed out around here, but I'll accept it for the moment) in place, we would still have to go through several painful years while the roster is built up, so I would advocate not evaluating them until year 3 as well. However, most "football men" do the whole try to win now thing (as Farmer did), so they do open themselves up to some more criticism. Sashi on the other hand made it fairly obvious what he was doing.
Sounds like War's argument is- let me get this straight- the plan is working until it's proven it doesn't work. He needs to put a number of losses and years on it so we can see how much losing he'll tolerate.
Evaluate after year 3. And yes I said after, not during. Why do you guys keep asking me this when I've made it abundantly clear?
I'm not even that wound up with 1-23. I'm more upset with
So your solution is to go back to the ideas behind all those previous failed teams. Great strategy.
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You said in another thread :
War: I could answer, but that’s not nearly as important as why I KNOW that blowing it up again will NOT work. And history supports my side so strongly that if this were a fight they would end it.
Meaning, you directly DIDN'T answer the question. I'm not arguing to blow it up at all. I'm arguing give me reason why you believe it will likely work. If you can't do that and continue to generalize every Browns fan as a F.O. plan hater, then you absolutely have Sheet logic.
Correct. What you quoted is my answer. And it is perfectly sound logic. I don't know that our way will work (though I could toss out some positive points for it). But I know and have observed multiple times that everyone else's way will not.
The obvious difference is stillmotion's plan - hire football men and let them run the team - has worked in NFL history. It didn't work here because the wrong football men were hired.
Your plan has zero track record of success. There's probably a reason NFL teams haven't hired a lawyer and a baseball guy to run their teams.
And yet it has failed over and over again in Browns history. So which is more directly relevant to us?
Furthermore, even with "football men" (and this is the most ignorant talking point that gets tossed out around here, but I'll accept it for the moment) in place, we would still have to go through several painful years while the roster is built up, so I would advocate not evaluating them until year 3 as well. However, most "football men" do the whole try to win now thing (as Farmer did), so they do open themselves up to some more criticism. Sashi on the other hand made it fairly obvious what he was doing.
Sounds like War's argument is- let me get this straight- the plan is working until it's proven it doesn't work. He needs to put a number of losses and years on it so we can see how much losing he'll tolerate.
Evaluate after year 3. And yes I said after, not during. Why do you guys keep asking me this when I've made it abundantly clear?
I'm not even that wound up with 1-23. I'm more upset with
So your solution is to go back to the ideas behind all those previous failed teams. Great strategy.
Correct. What you quoted is my answer. And it is perfectly sound logic. I don't know that our way will work (though I could toss out some positive points for it). But I know and have observed multiple times that everyone else's way will not.
And yet it has failed over and over again in Browns history. So which is more directly relevant to us?
Furthermore, even with "football men" (and this is the most ignorant talking point that gets tossed out around here, but I'll accept it for the moment) in place, we would still have to go through several painful years while the roster is built up, so I would advocate not evaluating them until year 3 as well. However, most "football men" do the whole try to win now thing (as Farmer did), so they do open themselves up to some more criticism. Sashi on the other hand made it fairly obvious what he was doing.
Evaluate after year 3. And yes I said after, not during. Why do you guys keep asking me this when I've made it abundantly clear?
So your solution is to go back to the ideas behind all those previous failed teams. Great strategy.
I don't believe I've offered the solution in any thread you've been a part of but thanks for playing, go A&M!
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Current roster. Italicized are rookies & 2nd year guys. Bolded are guys this front office added/re-signed:
QB- D.Kizer, C. Kessler, K.Hogan
RB- I.Crowell, D. Johnson, M.Dayes, D.Vitale (FB), D.Jackson (IR), T.Magee(PS),
WR- K.Britt, S.Coates, R.Higgins, R.Louis, B.Treggs, K.Williams, C.Coleman (IR), R.Hall(PS), J.Gordon
TE- R.Telfer, S.DeValve, D.Njoku, M.Lengel
OL- J.Thomas (IR), J.Bitonio, J.Tretter, K.Zeitler, S.Coleman, S.Drango, A.Reiter, M.Martin, Z.Banner, R.Johnson(IR)
DL- D.Shelton, N.Orchard, M.Garrett, E.Ogbah, T.Coley, C.Nassib, L.Ogunjobi, J.Meder, C.Brantley, T.McGill, T.Holmes
LB- C.Kirksey, J.Collins, J.Schobert, J. Burgess, B.Bello, D.Alexander (IR), T.Carder (IR), D.King
CB- J.McCourty, J.Taylor, B.Boddy-Calhoum, M.Jordan, R.Porter, H.Wilson(PUP)
S- I.Campbell, D.Kindred, J.Peppers, K.Nacua
ST- C.Hughlett-LS, B.Colquitt-P, Z. Gonzalez-KTalk about a total rebuild. It's really not realistic to expect this roster to win right now; however, they did bring in a lot of talent. I'm willing to give them 1 more year to see what it looks like then.
#Justsayin' -
Correct. What you quoted is my answer. And it is perfectly sound logic. I don't know that our way will work (though I could toss out some positive points for it). But I know and have observed multiple times that everyone else's way will not.
And yet it has failed over and over again in Browns history. So which is more directly relevant to us?
Furthermore, even with "football men" (and this is the most ignorant talking point that gets tossed out around here, but I'll accept it for the moment) in place, we would still have to go through several painful years while the roster is built up, so I would advocate not evaluating them until year 3 as well. However, most "football men" do the whole try to win now thing (as Farmer did), so they do open themselves up to some more criticism. Sashi on the other hand made it fairly obvious what he was doing.
Evaluate after year 3. And yes I said after, not during. Why do you guys keep asking me this when I've made it abundantly clear?
So your solution is to go back to the ideas behind all those previous failed teams. Great strategy.
I don't believe I've offered the solution in any thread you've been a part of but thanks for playing, go A&M!
I don't believe I've offered the solution in any thread you've been a part of but thanks for playing, go A&M!
You're right, you just whine like my baby cousin in every thread.
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Current roster. Italicized are rookies & 2nd year guys. Bolded are guys this front office added/re-signed:
QB- D.Kizer, C. Kessler, K.Hogan
RB- I.Crowell, D. Johnson, M.Dayes, D.Vitale (FB), D.Jackson (IR), T.Magee(PS),
WR- K.Britt, S.Coates, R.Higgins, R.Louis, B.Treggs, K.Williams, C.Coleman (IR), R.Hall(PS), J.Gordon
TE- R.Telfer, S.DeValve, D.Njoku, M.Lengel
OL- J.Thomas (IR), J.Bitonio, J.Tretter, K.Zeitler, S.Coleman, S.Drango, A.Reiter, M.Martin, Z.Banner, R.Johnson(IR)
DL- D.Shelton, N.Orchard, M.Garrett, E.Ogbah, T.Coley, C.Nassib, L.Ogunjobi, J.Meder, C.Brantley, T.McGill, T.Holmes
LB- C.Kirksey, J.Collins, J.Schobert, J. Burgess, B.Bello, D.Alexander (IR), T.Carder (IR), D.King
CB- J.McCourty, J.Taylor, B.Boddy-Calhoum, M.Jordan, R.Porter, H.Wilson(PUP)
S- I.Campbell, D.Kindred, J.Peppers, K.Nacua
ST- C.Hughlett-LS, B.Colquitt-P, Z. Gonzalez-KTalk about a total rebuild. It's really not realistic to expect this roster to win right now; however, they did bring in a lot of talent. I'm willing to give them 1 more year to see what it looks like then.
Current roster. Italicized are rookies & 2nd year guys. Bolded are guys this front office added/re-signed:
QB- D.Kizer, C. Kessler, K.Hogan
RB- I.Crowell, D. Johnson, M.Dayes, D.Vitale (FB), D.Jackson (IR), T.Magee(PS),
WR- K.Britt, S.Coates, R.Higgins, R.Louis, B.Treggs, K.Williams, C.Coleman (IR), R.Hall(PS), J.Gordon
TE- R.Telfer, S.DeValve, D.Njoku, M.Lengel
OL- J.Thomas (IR), J.Bitonio, J.Tretter, K.Zeitler, S.Coleman, S.Drango, A.Reiter, M.Martin, Z.Banner, R.Johnson(IR)
DL- D.Shelton, N.Orchard, M.Garrett, E.Ogbah, T.Coley, C.Nassib, L.Ogunjobi, J.Meder, C.Brantley, T.McGill, T.Holmes
LB- C.Kirksey, J.Collins, J.Schobert, J. Burgess, B.Bello, D.Alexander (IR), T.Carder (IR), D.King
CB- J.McCourty, J.Taylor, B.Boddy-Calhoum, M.Jordan, R.Porter, H.Wilson(PUP)
S- I.Campbell, D.Kindred, J.Peppers, K.Nacua
ST- C.Hughlett-LS, B.Colquitt-P, Z. Gonzalez-KTalk about a total rebuild. It's really not realistic to expect this roster to win right now; however, they did bring in a lot of talent. I'm willing to give them 1 more year to see what it looks like then.
OK...on paper there seems to be a lot of talent. But they ain't playing on paper. The talent they have is playing like shite for the most part....0-8 being evidence of that. Even 1st and 2d year players should not be expected to play like shite. So....why is that happening? Are they really not that talented? (Perhaps) Are they being coached horribly? (I believe there is a lot of truth to this) Are they just "inexperienced? (A bit, yea) Or what?
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Current roster. Italicized are rookies & 2nd year guys. Bolded are guys this front office added/re-signed:
QB- D.Kizer, C. Kessler, K.Hogan
RB- I.Crowell, D. Johnson, M.Dayes, D.Vitale (FB), D.Jackson (IR), T.Magee(PS),
WR- K.Britt, S.Coates, R.Higgins, R.Louis, B.Treggs, K.Williams, C.Coleman (IR), R.Hall(PS), J.Gordon
TE- R.Telfer, S.DeValve, D.Njoku, M.Lengel
OL- J.Thomas (IR), J.Bitonio, J.Tretter, K.Zeitler, S.Coleman, S.Drango, A.Reiter, M.Martin, Z.Banner, R.Johnson(IR)
DL- D.Shelton, N.Orchard, M.Garrett, E.Ogbah, T.Coley, C.Nassib, L.Ogunjobi, J.Meder, C.Brantley, T.McGill, T.Holmes
LB- C.Kirksey, J.Collins, J.Schobert, J. Burgess, B.Bello, D.Alexander (IR), T.Carder (IR), D.King
CB- J.McCourty, J.Taylor, B.Boddy-Calhoum, M.Jordan, R.Porter, H.Wilson(PUP)
S- I.Campbell, D.Kindred, J.Peppers, K.Nacua
ST- C.Hughlett-LS, B.Colquitt-P, Z. Gonzalez-KTalk about a total rebuild. It's really not realistic to expect this roster to win right now; however, they did bring in a lot of talent. I'm willing to give them 1 more year to see what it looks like then.
OK...on paper there seems to be a lot of talent. But they ain't playing on paper. The talent they have is playing like shite for the most part....0-8 being evidence of that. Even 1st and 2d year players should not be expected to play like shite. So....why is that happening? Are they really not that talented? (Perhaps) Are they being coached horribly? (I believe there is a lot of truth to this) Are they just "inexperienced? (A bit, yea) Or what?
OK...on paper there seems to be a lot of talent. But they ain't playing on paper. The talent they have is playing like shite for the most part....0-8 being evidence of that. Even 1st and 2d year players should not be expected to play like shite. So....why is that happening? Are they really not that talented? (Perhaps) Are they being coached horribly? (I believe there is a lot of truth to this) Are they just "inexperienced? (A bit, yea) Or what?
When I watch our offense, I see a complicated mess where many veteran QBs would struggle with only 1 off-season to prepare, let alone a rookie.
IMHO, Hue is not calling plays to "dumb down" his O, but rather throwing the whole playbook out there and forcing Kizer to "get it." Unfortunately, he is not getting it... yet.
2 different schools here: 1) RGIII- Shanahan dumbed down the offense in his rookie year that it seems he never got to develop as a QB. On the other hand, 2) the Eagles started Wentz off with a stupid-easy version of their offense, and have yet to fully deploy the entire offense.
Hue is not doing either, but is forcing Kizer to play Hue's offense, and is not doing him any favors. Maybe the kid will "get it" and start producing, but if I were Hue I'd take the plays that Kizer performs his best at and stick to those before going back to a lot of the deeper reads/options/timing routes. Simple over-under, boots, slants, and crossing routes seem to be things Deshone can handle. Hue's stubbornness, IMHO, might get him run out-of-town.
P.S.- Same thing happened when Hogan started. Was not given the best playcalls to be effective.
#Justsayin' -
You said in another thread :
War: I could answer, but that’s not nearly as important as why I KNOW that blowing it up again will NOT work. And history supports my side so strongly that if this were a fight they would end it.
Meaning, you directly DIDN'T answer the question. I'm not arguing to blow it up at all. I'm arguing give me reason why you believe it will likely work. If you can't do that and continue to generalize every Browns fan as a F.O. plan hater, then you absolutely have Sheet logic.
Correct. What you quoted is my answer. And it is perfectly sound logic. I don't know that our way will work (though I could toss out some positive points for it). But I know and have observed multiple times that everyone else's way will not.
The obvious difference is stillmotion's plan - hire football men and let them run the team - has worked in NFL history. It didn't work here because the wrong football men were hired.
Your plan has zero track record of success. There's probably a reason NFL teams haven't hired a lawyer and a baseball guy to run their teams.
And yet it has failed over and over again in Browns history. So which is more directly relevant to us?
Furthermore, even with "football men" (and this is the most ignorant talking point that gets tossed out around here, but I'll accept it for the moment) in place, we would still have to go through several painful years while the roster is built up, so I would advocate not evaluating them until year 3 as well. However, most "football men" do the whole try to win now thing (as Farmer did), so they do open themselves up to some more criticism. Sashi on the other hand made it fairly obvious what he was doing.
Sounds like War's argument is- let me get this straight- the plan is working until it's proven it doesn't work. He needs to put a number of losses and years on it so we can see how much losing he'll tolerate.
Evaluate after year 3. And yes I said after, not during. Why do you guys keep asking me this when I've made it abundantly clear?
I'm not even that wound up with 1-23. I'm more upset with
So your solution is to go back to the ideas behind all those previous failed teams. Great strategy.
Correct. What you quoted is my answer. And it is perfectly sound logic. I don't know that our way will work (though I could toss out some positive points for it). But I know and have observed multiple times that everyone else's way will not.
And yet it has failed over and over again in Browns history. So which is more directly relevant to us?
Furthermore, even with "football men" (and this is the most ignorant talking point that gets tossed out around here, but I'll accept it for the moment) in place, we would still have to go through several painful years while the roster is built up, so I would advocate not evaluating them until year 3 as well. However, most "football men" do the whole try to win now thing (as Farmer did), so they do open themselves up to some more criticism. Sashi on the other hand made it fairly obvious what he was doing.
Evaluate after year 3. And yes I said after, not during. Why do you guys keep asking me this when I've made it abundantly clear?
So your solution is to go back to the ideas behind all those previous failed teams. Great strategy.
What sticks out most to me is that this Wunderkind Smashmouth WIlliams is on par to have the second worst defensive performance in Browns V 2.0 history, and depending on when the team finally quits for the holidays, he may have the #1 worst defensive year.
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OK...on paper there seems to be a lot of talent. But they ain't playing on paper. The talent they have is playing like shite for the most part....0-8 being evidence of that. Even 1st and 2d year players should not be expected to play like shite. So....why is that happening? Are they really not that talented? (Perhaps) Are they being coached horribly? (I believe there is a lot of truth to this) Are they just "inexperienced? (A bit, yea) Or what?
When I watch our offense, I see a complicated mess where many veteran QBs would struggle with only 1 off-season to prepare, let alone a rookie.
IMHO, Hue is not calling plays to "dumb down" his O, but rather throwing the whole playbook out there and forcing Kizer to "get it." Unfortunately, he is not getting it... yet.
2 different schools here: 1) RGIII- Shanahan dumbed down the offense in his rookie year that it seems he never got to develop as a QB. On the other hand, 2) the Eagles started Wentz off with a stupid-easy version of their offense, and have yet to fully deploy the entire offense.
Hue is not doing either, but is forcing Kizer to play Hue's offense, and is not doing him any favors. Maybe the kid will "get it" and start producing, but if I were Hue I'd take the plays that Kizer performs his best at and stick to those before going back to a lot of the deeper reads/options/timing routes. Simple over-under, boots, slants, and crossing routes seem to be things Deshone can handle. Hue's stubbornness, IMHO, might get him run out-of-town.
P.S.- Same thing happened when Hogan started. Was not given the best playcalls to be effective.
When I watch our offense, I see a complicated mess where many veteran QBs would struggle with only 1 off-season to prepare, let alone a rookie.
IMHO, Hue is not calling plays to "dumb down" his O, but rather throwing the whole playbook out there and forcing Kizer to "get it." Unfortunately, he is not getting it... yet.
2 different schools here: 1) RGIII- Shanahan dumbed down the offense in his rookie year that it seems he never got to develop as a QB. On the other hand, 2) the Eagles started Wentz off with a stupid-easy version of their offense, and have yet to fully deploy the entire offense.
Hue is not doing either, but is forcing Kizer to play Hue's offense, and is not doing him any favors. Maybe the kid will "get it" and start producing, but if I were Hue I'd take the plays that Kizer performs his best at and stick to those before going back to a lot of the deeper reads/options/timing routes. Simple over-under, boots, slants, and crossing routes seem to be things Deshone can handle. Hue's stubbornness, IMHO, might get him run out-of-town.
P.S.- Same thing happened when Hogan started. Was not given the best playcalls to be effective.
WTF? Logic? Please Mods, censor this guy.
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Current roster. Italicized are rookies & 2nd year guys. Bolded are guys this front office added/re-signed:
QB- D.Kizer, C. Kessler, K.Hogan
RB- I.Crowell, D. Johnson, M.Dayes, D.Vitale (FB), D.Jackson (IR), T.Magee(PS),
WR- K.Britt, S.Coates, R.Higgins, R.Louis, B.Treggs, K.Williams, C.Coleman (IR), R.Hall(PS), J.Gordon
TE- R.Telfer, S.DeValve, D.Njoku, M.Lengel
OL- J.Thomas (IR), J.Bitonio, J.Tretter, K.Zeitler, S.Coleman, S.Drango, A.Reiter, M.Martin, Z.Banner, R.Johnson(IR)
DL- D.Shelton, N.Orchard, M.Garrett, E.Ogbah, T.Coley, C.Nassib, L.Ogunjobi, J.Meder, C.Brantley, T.McGill, T.Holmes
LB- C.Kirksey, J.Collins, J.Schobert, J. Burgess, B.Bello, D.Alexander (IR), T.Carder (IR), D.King
CB- J.McCourty, J.Taylor, B.Boddy-Calhoum, M.Jordan, R.Porter, H.Wilson(PUP)
S- I.Campbell, D.Kindred, J.Peppers, K.Nacua
ST- C.Hughlett-LS, B.Colquitt-P, Z. Gonzalez-KTalk about a total rebuild. It's really not realistic to expect this roster to win right now; however, they did bring in a lot of talent. I'm willing to give them 1 more year to see what it looks like then.
Current roster. Italicized are rookies & 2nd year guys. Bolded are guys this front office added/re-signed:
QB- D.Kizer, C. Kessler, K.Hogan
RB- I.Crowell, D. Johnson, M.Dayes, D.Vitale (FB), D.Jackson (IR), T.Magee(PS),
WR- K.Britt, S.Coates, R.Higgins, R.Louis, B.Treggs, K.Williams, C.Coleman (IR), R.Hall(PS), J.Gordon
TE- R.Telfer, S.DeValve, D.Njoku, M.Lengel
OL- J.Thomas (IR), J.Bitonio, J.Tretter, K.Zeitler, S.Coleman, S.Drango, A.Reiter, M.Martin, Z.Banner, R.Johnson(IR)
DL- D.Shelton, N.Orchard, M.Garrett, E.Ogbah, T.Coley, C.Nassib, L.Ogunjobi, J.Meder, C.Brantley, T.McGill, T.Holmes
LB- C.Kirksey, J.Collins, J.Schobert, J. Burgess, B.Bello, D.Alexander (IR), T.Carder (IR), D.King
CB- J.McCourty, J.Taylor, B.Boddy-Calhoum, M.Jordan, R.Porter, H.Wilson(PUP)
S- I.Campbell, D.Kindred, J.Peppers, K.Nacua
ST- C.Hughlett-LS, B.Colquitt-P, Z. Gonzalez-KTalk about a total rebuild. It's really not realistic to expect this roster to win right now; however, they did bring in a lot of talent. I'm willing to give them 1 more year to see what it looks like then.
Jamie Meder was signed on to the Browns active roster from the PS in the fall of 2014.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Current roster. Italicized are rookies & 2nd year guys. Bolded are guys this front office added/re-signed:
QB- D.Kizer, C. Kessler, K.Hogan
RB- I.Crowell, D. Johnson, M.Dayes, D.Vitale (FB), D.Jackson (IR), T.Magee(PS),
WR- K.Britt, S.Coates, R.Higgins, R.Louis, B.Treggs, K.Williams, C.Coleman (IR), R.Hall(PS), J.Gordon
TE- R.Telfer, S.DeValve, D.Njoku, M.Lengel
OL- J.Thomas (IR), J.Bitonio, J.Tretter, K.Zeitler, S.Coleman, S.Drango, A.Reiter, M.Martin, Z.Banner, R.Johnson(IR)
DL- D.Shelton, N.Orchard, M.Garrett, E.Ogbah, T.Coley, C.Nassib, L.Ogunjobi, J.Meder, C.Brantley, T.McGill, T.Holmes
LB- C.Kirksey, J.Collins, J.Schobert, J. Burgess, B.Bello, D.Alexander (IR), T.Carder (IR), D.King
CB- J.McCourty, J.Taylor, B.Boddy-Calhoum, M.Jordan, R.Porter, H.Wilson(PUP)
S- I.Campbell, D.Kindred, J.Peppers, K.Nacua
ST- C.Hughlett-LS, B.Colquitt-P, Z. Gonzalez-KTalk about a total rebuild. It's really not realistic to expect this roster to win right now; however, they did bring in a lot of talent. I'm willing to give them 1 more year to see what it looks like then.
Jamie Meder was signed on to the Browns active roster from the PS in the fall of 2014.
Jamie Meder was signed on to the Browns active roster from the PS in the fall of 2014.
In other words...not actually a Sashi Brown choice?
Well...also on this....Campbell is now gone. He just wasn't one of Sashi's guys.
Well, lets just hope his replacement is better...because the DB has done poorly this year.
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Current roster. Italicized are rookies & 2nd year guys. Bolded are guys this front office added/re-signed:
QB- D.Kizer, C. Kessler, K.Hogan
RB- I.Crowell, D. Johnson, M.Dayes, D.Vitale (FB), D.Jackson (IR), T.Magee(PS),
WR- K.Britt, S.Coates, R.Higgins, R.Louis, B.Treggs, K.Williams, C.Coleman (IR), R.Hall(PS), J.Gordon
TE- R.Telfer, S.DeValve, D.Njoku, M.Lengel
OL- J.Thomas (IR), J.Bitonio, J.Tretter, K.Zeitler, S.Coleman, S.Drango, A.Reiter, M.Martin, Z.Banner, R.Johnson(IR)
DL- D.Shelton, N.Orchard, M.Garrett, E.Ogbah, T.Coley, C.Nassib, L.Ogunjobi, J.Meder, C.Brantley, T.McGill, T.Holmes
LB- C.Kirksey, J.Collins, J.Schobert, J. Burgess, B.Bello, D.Alexander (IR), T.Carder (IR), D.King
CB- J.McCourty, J.Taylor, B.Boddy-Calhoum, M.Jordan, R.Porter, H.Wilson(PUP)
S- I.Campbell, D.Kindred, J.Peppers, K.Nacua
ST- C.Hughlett-LS, B.Colquitt-P, Z. Gonzalez-KTalk about a total rebuild. It's really not realistic to expect this roster to win right now; however, they did bring in a lot of talent. I'm willing to give them 1 more year to see what it looks like then.
Jamie Meder was signed on to the Browns active roster from the PS in the fall of 2014.
Jamie Meder was signed on to the Browns active roster from the PS in the fall of 2014.
Correct, but extended by this regime over the offseason via RFA
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You said in another thread :
War: I could answer, but that’s not nearly as important as why I KNOW that blowing it up again will NOT work. And history supports my side so strongly that if this were a fight they would end it.
Meaning, you directly DIDN'T answer the question. I'm not arguing to blow it up at all. I'm arguing give me reason why you believe it will likely work. If you can't do that and continue to generalize every Browns fan as a F.O. plan hater, then you absolutely have Sheet logic.
Correct. What you quoted is my answer. And it is perfectly sound logic. I don't know that our way will work (though I could toss out some positive points for it). But I know and have observed multiple times that everyone else's way will not.
The obvious difference is stillmotion's plan - hire football men and let them run the team - has worked in NFL history. It didn't work here because the wrong football men were hired.
Your plan has zero track record of success. There's probably a reason NFL teams haven't hired a lawyer and a baseball guy to run their teams.
And yet it has failed over and over again in Browns history. So which is more directly relevant to us?
Furthermore, even with "football men" (and this is the most ignorant talking point that gets tossed out around here, but I'll accept it for the moment) in place, we would still have to go through several painful years while the roster is built up, so I would advocate not evaluating them until year 3 as well. However, most "football men" do the whole try to win now thing (as Farmer did), so they do open themselves up to some more criticism. Sashi on the other hand made it fairly obvious what he was doing.
Sounds like War's argument is- let me get this straight- the plan is working until it's proven it doesn't work. He needs to put a number of losses and years on it so we can see how much losing he'll tolerate.
Evaluate after year 3. And yes I said after, not during. Why do you guys keep asking me this when I've made it abundantly clear?
I'm not even that wound up with 1-23. I'm more upset with
So your solution is to go back to the ideas behind all those previous failed teams. Great strategy.
Correct. What you quoted is my answer. And it is perfectly sound logic. I don't know that our way will work (though I could toss out some positive points for it). But I know and have observed multiple times that everyone else's way will not.
You said, I could answer, BUT
You didn't answer, just dodged the question like a politician
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Looks like Hue didn't get the "We are gonna lose at a historic rate for the first 3 years of The Process" memo.........
Mary Kay CabotVerified account @MaryKayCabot 2h2 hours ag
Mary Kay Cabot@MaryKayCabot#Browns Hue Jackson: 'I'm in a bad mood today. Tired of freakin losing'#Browns
Hue Jackson: 'I'm in a bad mood today. Tired of freakin losing'
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Looks like Hue didn't get the "We are gonna lose at a historic rate for the first 3 years of The Process" memo.........
Mary Kay CabotVerified account @MaryKayCabot 2h2 hours agMary Kay Cabot@MaryKayCabot#Browns Hue Jackson: 'I'm in a bad mood today. Tired of freakin losing'#Browns Hue Jackson: 'I'm in a bad mood today. Tired of freakin losing'
Looks like Hue didn't get the "We are gonna lose at a historic rate for the first 3 years of The Process" memo.........
#Browns Hue Jackson: 'I'm in a bad mood today. Tired of freakin losing'
Someone should tell him we have some nice stats to fall back on and apparently all sorts of talent all over the field. Maybe that will cheer him up.
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Looks like Hue didn't get the "We are gonna lose at a historic rate for the first 3 years of The Process" memo.........
#Browns Hue Jackson: 'I'm in a bad mood today. Tired of freakin losing'
Someone should tell him we have some nice stats to fall back on and apparently all sorts of talent all over the field. Maybe that will cheer him up.
Someone should tell him we have some nice stats to fall back on and apparently all sorts of talent all over the field. Maybe that will cheer him up.
Tell Hue he needs to call plays better, make better decisions, learn how to manage the clock and a game, and learn how to get his players to play with some discipline.
I said it before: in my opinion the Browns have lost at least 3 games due to his poor coaching. Jets, Titans....maybe Colts. Maybe another that I can't think of right now.
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I don't believe I've offered the solution in any thread you've been a part of but thanks for playing, go A&M!
You're right, you just whine like my baby cousin in every thread.
You're right, you just whine like my baby cousin in every thread.
Wow great comeback!
I have said several times you have to give the front office and Hue at least one more year. I have also said many times my solution would be taking the best available player at my draft position each year.
2014 Kalil Mack, 2015 Danny Shelton, 2016 Joey Bosa, 2017 Myles Garret.
I may have been wrong but I'd hope the defense would be rounding into shape and I could simply tell the fan base the team selected the best talent they thought was available.
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You're right, you just whine like my baby cousin in every thread.
Wow great comeback!
I have said several times you have to give the front office and Hue at least one more year. I have also said many times my solution would be taking the best available player at my draft position each year.
2014 Kalil Mack, 2015 Danny Shelton, 2016 Joey Bosa, 2017 Myles Garret.
I may have been wrong but I'd hope the defense would be rounding into shape and I could simply tell the fan base the team selected the best talent they thought was available.
Wow great comeback!
I have said several times you have to give the front office and Hue at least one more year. I have also said many times my solution would be taking the best available player at my draft position each year.
2014 Kalil Mack, 2015 Danny Shelton, 2016 Joey Bosa, 2017 Myles Garret.
I may have been wrong but I'd hope the defense would be rounding into shape and I could simply tell the fan base the team selected the best talent they thought was available.
The offense would probably still suck, but it would be hard for that defense to not be good not only on paper (and pretty stats) but on the field as well.
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Wow great comeback!
I have said several times you have to give the front office and Hue at least one more year. I have also said many times my solution would be taking the best available player at my draft position each year.
2014 Kalil Mack, 2015 Danny Shelton, 2016 Joey Bosa, 2017 Myles Garret.
I may have been wrong but I'd hope the defense would be rounding into shape and I could simply tell the fan base the team selected the best talent they thought was available.
The offense would probably still suck, but it would be hard for that defense to not be good not only on paper (and pretty stats) but on the field as well.
The offense would probably still suck, but it would be hard for that defense to not be good not only on paper (and pretty stats) but on the field as well.
When Pettine and Farmer took over I was hoping it was to build a great defense and then try and piece together an offense. My fondest memories of the 1980s Browns wasn't Kosar but that blue collar defense who left opponents weary. Instead we are now stuck with a brain trust who believes they've found a secret science that will revolutionize NFL front office decision making. What I've seen thus far is the accumulation of picks, missed talent and quite frankly underachieving first round draft picks.
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You're right, you just whine like my baby cousin in every thread.
Wow great comeback!
I have said several times you have to give the front office and Hue at least one more year. I have also said many times my solution would be taking the best available player at my draft position each year.
2014 Kalil Mack, 2015 Danny Shelton, 2016 Joey Bosa, 2017 Myles Garret.
I may have been wrong but I'd hope the defense would be rounding into shape and I could simply tell the fan base the team selected the best talent they thought was available.
Wow great comeback!
I have said several times you have to give the front office and Hue at least one more year. I have also said many times my solution would be taking the best available player at my draft position each year.
2014 Kalil Mack, 2015 Danny Shelton, 2016 Joey Bosa, 2017 Myles Garret.
I may have been wrong but I'd hope the defense would be rounding into shape and I could simply tell the fan base the team selected the best talent they thought was available.
That 2014 first round was an absolute killer.
I mean, you have to wonder where the Browns would be today if they had just taken who the Raiders did instead of Gilbert and Manziel.
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