There is no 'the process' with this team....

flyingfooldoug

@tour2ma said:

DePo is going to jail?

His boss just might. He put the anal in the equation without much if any locker room presence. He says he's no crook. I remember hearing that in 1973.... Lol

Alkid3

@tacosman said:

every post isn't going to be a peer-reviewed paper.....it's time that this organization started to make sweeping changes and takes a different approach. The sashi/hue combo is really just more of the same aimless floudering we've seen for the last 15 years with a little bit of makeup on. We need a front office that is going to have an agenda that is consistent with team building in the nfl in 2017 founded on data driven policies and analysis. Not the contradictory bull**** hue and this FO have given us.

we need to find the nfl's version of sam hinkie. These clowns arent it.

Oh you mean change like what they have been doing almost every year. Shmuck outta here.

flyingfooldoug

@tour2ma said:

What data is that?

Final scores! Flat line across the board. Look at the graph.

Tour2ma

Pretty sure our scores have had a few bumps... enough for life support...

@d-bone said:

Had to Google pythags.........

Me, too...

Did it do you any more good than it did me?

Tacosman

@alkid3 said:

Oh you mean change like what they have been doing almost every year. Shmuck outta here.

more of the same nonsense isn't really change.

D Bone

@tour2ma said:

Me, too...

Did it do you any more good than it did me?

Well, I had to Google some of the results I got Googling pythags.... so no, not really.

flyingfooldoug

@d-bone said:

Well, I had to Google some of the results I got Googling pythags.... so no, not really.

Only stats needed. The wins, losses, months trying. Flat line means plug pulling time

gumby73

@tacosman said:

All the data of course. defensive and offensive efficiency ratings this year. then those compared to last year. pythags this year compared to last year. We'll see what the next several games bring.

Pythags this..In 2016 we clearly missed on getting WR Rishard Matthews from Miami now a Titian for 3 years at 15M..In 2017 LB AJ Klein goes from Panthers to Saints for 4 years 24M..Analytic Data is garbage when Berry & Grigson can't see pure on the field talent evaluations right in front of them.. at a steal for the $$ on a contract..The complete whiffs on field talent over numbers are killers

D Bone

@flyingfooldoug said:

Only stats needed. The wins, losses, months trying. Flat line means plug pulling time

So let me try.....

Wins / Losses x Time = X

Got it!!

X = The Process

jiggins7919

I haven't been thrilled with Hue Jackson, but I'm way more aggrevated by our front office. Everyone wants to point to Sashi missing on Wentz and Watson, and those are egregious mistakes, but let's look at another, smaller mistake that displays his incompetence. Sashi cut Taylor Gabriel to make room for HIS drafted WRs like Rashard Higgins, Jordan Payton, and Ricardo Louis. I don't believe any of those 3 guys make it on an active NFL roster. The one exception COULD be Higgins, as Kizer has missed him for at least three touchdowns this year, and Higgins has been open multiple other times for big gains. His hands have proven to be mostly reliable, and he MIGHT help someone. But Taylor Gabriel is making plays. Some of them big. That's an inexcusable miss and it really shows just how out of his depth Sashi is at his job.

Tour2ma

I wanted to keep Gabe as well, but c'mon... let's not over-romanticize him. He's a solid #3... no more... no less. He's not a building block in his mid-20's.

Is he better than our kids (I can hear you ask)? Yes... but we had to learn that and now that we have... easy fix.

Part of the philosophy of this FO... this organization... is to invest in and develop young players. No better examples than Kizer and Njoku and Garrett... players we can have for a decade, if they develop.

As for egregious? ummmm.... no...

jiggins7919

I'm not saying Taylor Gabriel cures our ills, I'm merely using his departure as just one shining example of Sashi's futility. And your point that we want to invest in young players doesn't make sense. How old was Gabriel when he left? 24? Are you saying we should only develop young players WE draft our sign? Sashi didn't sign him originally, but the Browns basically gave him his start. It's one example of how poorly Sashi evaluates talent. And if you look at our worst position groupings, where do we lack the most talent? WR and QB on offense. So what's the excuse about screwing it up? Nobody else on this board thought Gabriel was worse than the idiots we kept, so how does Sashi get it wrong? Our radio guys thought it was terrible, our fans (ones I know) were ticked, and people in the media weren't happy, yet Sashi messes it up. Why cut Joe Haden? Did he dominate in Pittsburgh? No, but he didn't embarrass himself either. We needed some veteran leadership on this team, and that's another mistake made by him. And don't get me started on Wentz and Watson. Sashi single-handedly kept us in the dark ages by messing up our roster. He has the final say. His shoulders bare the weight of this talent-starved debacle called the Browns.

Tour2ma

I'm saying he was not worth (to us) what the Falc's paid him... which is $2.75mm this season.

And Sashi does not "evaluate talent"... so there's that.

That ought to get you started...

Tacosman

@tour2ma said:

Part of the philosophy of this FO... this organization... is to invest in and develop young players. No better examples than Kizer and Njoku and Garrett... players we can have for a decade, if they develop.

two of those are first round draft picks. The philosophy of every single team in the league is to develop their first round draft picks(which, weeds excepted, are by definition young players)....so that part isn't a philosophy. One way in which organizations and front offices are judged are on whether or not those picks hit. We'll see if players like Njoku and Peppers do eventually play well, and thats how the organization will be judged.

stillmotion

@tour2ma said:

And Sashi does not "evaluate talent"... so there's that.

Sashi has done a great job gathering picks and making deals. I applaud him for that. But Andrew Berry has done a sub-par job at best picking the talent, and having someone with a great eye to help him would be beneficial on us hitting on the next two drafts in my opinion.

hoorta

@tour2ma said:

I'm saying he was not worth (to us) what the Falc's paid him... which is $2.75mm this season.

And Sashi does not "evaluate talent"... so there's that.

That ought to get you started...

I thought he had final say on the roster- sounds like evaluating talent to me.... I've already pointed out- if it was a "consensus" the "consensus" seriously overvalued McCarron, and valued draft picks more than a potential franchise QB twice. They're batting with two strikes on them already Tour- one more, and they're OUT.

Unsympathetic

Since all you're looking at are the wins and losses, how can you tell when sashi was hired? Were the Browns a great power before he arrived?

And if you can't tell the difference...... how, exactly, is sashi the problem?

What's the basis for stating that replacing Sashi would make a change --- given that your data haven't shown his hiring to be consequential in the first place?

This "ride down from the heavens and magically make no mistakes" role is a job description that no human I've ever met would take on. Sounds like this is a classic "build someone up as a savior simply so that we can knock him down when it turns out he's human after all" move. Even Belichick got 5 years here - and if you watch the old stories of Belichick closely, you'll see plenty of binders where he uses analytics to quantify players in the draft.

flyingfooldoug

@d-bone said:

So let me try.....

Wins / Losses x Time = X

Got it!!

X = The Process

Close, more like XXX. It is kinda obscene

Tour2ma

@hoorta said:

I thought he had final say on the roster- sounds like evaluating talent to me.... I've already pointed out- if it was a "consensus" the "consensus" seriously overvalued McCarron, and valued draft picks more than a potential franchise QB twice. They're batting with two strikes on them already Tour- one more, and they're OUT.

So Berry is the defacto GM? Don't think so, h.

As for McCarron... disagree. Not that the offer was high... I've already written that it was. But that it was "seriously" high. Already know that when dealing with a Divisional rival you are going to overpay. We did for Zeitler, only in this case not because the Bengals had a role, but because there was a bonus for us in his signing of weakening them.

Finally I don't see two strikes... not even sure I see one. Because "potential" is not the yardstick. Were it then were up to at least strike 6... maybe 8.

@unsympathetic said:

Since all you're looking at are the wins and losses, how can you tell when sashi was hired? Were the Browns a great power before he arrived?

And if you can't tell the difference...... how, exactly, is sashi the problem?

What's the basis for stating that replacing Sashi would make a change --- given that your data haven't shown his hiring to be consequential in the first place?

This "ride down from the heavens and magically make no mistakes" role is a job description that no human I've ever met would take on. Sounds like this is a classic "build someone up as a savior simply so that we can knock him down when it turns out he's human after all" move. Even Belichick got 5 years here - and if you watch the old stories of Belichick closely, you'll see plenty of binders where he uses analytics to quantify players in the draft.

Ed Zachery...

Tour2ma

@tacosman said:

two of those are first round draft picks. The philosophy of every single team in the league is to develop their first round draft picks(which, weeds excepted, are by definition young players)....so that part isn't a philosophy. One way in which organizations and front offices are judged are on whether or not those picks hit. We'll see if players like Njoku and Peppers do eventually play well, and thats how the organization will be judged.

As a general rule aren't 1st rounders supposed to have immediate impact? Start Day 1?

Point was the players I listed aren't just young, they are young for 2017 draft picks. Garrett... 21. Njoku... 21. Kizer... 21. Then add the sheer number of picks we've made and rostered over the past two years. It is a philosophy emphasis that permeates our approach... and that includes round one.