Should we draft a quarterback 1st overall?
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Rosen and Darnald are light years better than Kizer, who is a joke. The bigger joke is Hue Jackson who is as bad as Sashi in evaluating QB talent!!!!!!
See we're already setting rosen up to fail before we've even drafted him. Rosen doesnt start next year, period. He's prob the most capable collegiate qb at starting right now, but this is clev so he's not ready
See we're already setting rosen up to fail before we've even drafted him. Rosen doesnt start next year, period. He's prob the most capable collegiate qb at starting right now, but this is clev so he's not ready
Drop Rosen into this with a couple more skill players and this team turns around overnight. Bring in the depth on D as well and we're set for comeback of the year.
EDIT: Oh, and steal Henry from the Titans so we can make all those short yardage 1st downs. (Just for Tour).
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See we're already setting rosen up to fail before we've even drafted him. Rosen doesnt start next year, period. He's prob the most capable collegiate qb at starting right now, but this is clev so he's not ready
Drop Rosen into this with a couple more skill players and this team turns around overnight. Bring in the depth on D as well and we're set for comeback of the year.
EDIT: Oh, and steal Henry from the Titans so we can make all those short yardage 1st downs. (Just for Tour).
Drop Rosen into this with a couple more skill players and this team turns around overnight. Bring in the depth on D as well and we're set for comeback of the year.
EDIT: Oh, and steal Henry from the Titans so we can make all those short yardage 1st downs. (Just for Tour).
My stomach twists a bit thinking of starting rosen, or sny of them, on day one. Just once i want us to sit a highly sought after qb and not throw him in there out of desperation. Draft a great talent and ease him into the nfl. Im sure rosen will wantbto start day onevbut i dont care what he thinks....this is clev, WE know how things work here. It would make me utterly ill if we TIm couch'd another high talent qb
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Drop Rosen into this with a couple more skill players and this team turns around overnight. Bring in the depth on D as well and we're set for comeback of the year.
EDIT: Oh, and steal Henry from the Titans so we can make all those short yardage 1st downs. (Just for Tour).
My stomach twists a bit thinking of starting rosen, or sny of them, on day one. Just once i want us to sit a highly sought after qb and not throw him in there out of desperation. Draft a great talent and ease him into the nfl. Im sure rosen will wantbto start day onevbut i dont care what he thinks....this is clev, WE know how things work here. It would make me utterly ill if we TIm couch'd another high talent qb
My stomach twists a bit thinking of starting rosen, or sny of them, on day one. Just once i want us to sit a highly sought after qb and not throw him in there out of desperation. Draft a great talent and ease him into the nfl. Im sure rosen will wantbto start day onevbut i dont care what he thinks....this is clev, WE know how things work here. It would make me utterly ill if we TIm couch'd another high talent qb
Yeah but it hasn't seemed to hurt Wentz or Prescott to be starting from day 1. Now I realize that wasn't the plan in either place but its worked out just fine.
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Here is proof people out there: There IS someone who could be worse at running this team than Sashi et al.
How much worse, really? I'm not kidding if Hogan had been named starter at the beginning of the season gotten all the first round snaps and played in his many games as Kizser would he have improved?
I would have added if Hue Jackson had built an offense around him but I don't think he builds an offense to work toward the strengths of what he has anyway.
WSS
How much worse, really? I'm not kidding if Hogan had been named starter at the beginning of the season gotten all the first round snaps and played in his many games as Kizser would he have improved?
I would have added if Hue Jackson had built an offense around him but I don't think he builds an offense to work toward the strengths of what he has anyway.
WSS
Fair statement. How much worse than 0-10 can we be? Except to say that in a number of these games the Browns had chances.....and with Hogan....would they have had absolutely no chance?
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Many of you will laugh at me (no more than usual) but how many games do we win with a guy like Case Keenum? How many do we win if we sign Robert Woods at WR, or trade a 2nd for Watkins to help Keenum and our other guys? Our defense has played well enough a few games to get us a victory, yet when we really needed a score, it never came. Sashi and our front office let us down by not having a veteran qb on our roster. Nobody can tell me Kizer was ready to play this season, but our management couldn't see that. What was the backup plan? Hogan and Kessler? Come on, man. And then we panic at the trade deadline and try to make a bad deal for an unknown commodity but still screw it up? Good lord.
Now I admit it, our defense let us down a few times this year (Colts game IMO), but there's been so many others where we simply couldn't score points. Our qb couldn't see the open man, couldn't make an accurate pass in the end zone, or flat out just sucked. After 6 games, I counted AT LEAST 8 possible touchdown throws Kizer missed. Now granted, this isn't exact and everyone misses throws, but I have to believe even a guy like Keenum makes HALF of those, right? But it's not even making half the TD throws, it's NOT making the turnovers and costing us freaking points. Costing us momentum. Giving our receivers a chance to feel better and gain confidence. Now Imagine Keenum throwing to Josh Gordon, Corey Coleman, Njoku, Devalve, and Duke. I've seen Keenum have near telepathy with Thielen and his crappy receivers. I'd love to see him with an athletic Njoku and Gordon.
Just think how much Kizer is costing us in terms of player development. How many times has he missed Njoku in the end zone or deep in the seam? I realize Njoku has dropped some and missed blocks, but he could easily have 6 tds right now and twice the yardage. What about a guy like Dreggs who is trying to catch on? Kizer hasn't even SEEN this guy streaking down the field several times.
Obviously Keenum isn't an allstar, but he's ten times better than what we've got, and he's just one example of a veteran qb we didn't get. How about Ryan Fitzpatrick? Is he good? No. Is he BETTER than our guys. Yes.
So do we take a QB first? I'll put it to you this way, we're taking one in the first round that's for damn sure. Whether it's first or tenth, we're taking one. Only way we don't is if we trade for an established qb, and that almost never happens. We're taking a QB early, we're bringing in a veteran of some degree, and Kizer will be fighting for his NFL life. Nothing we have is working right now. Kizer is too young to give up on, but accuracy isn't generally something that "comes along". Not to the degree it needs to for Kizer.
Many of you will laugh at me (no more than usual) but how many games do we win with a guy like Case Keenum? How many do we win if we sign Robert Woods at WR, or trade a 2nd for Watkins to help Keenum and our other guys? Our defense has played well enough a few games to get us a victory, yet when we really needed a score, it never came. Sashi and our front office let us down by not having a veteran qb on our roster. Nobody can tell me Kizer was ready to play this season, but our management couldn't see that. What was the backup plan? Hogan and Kessler? Come on, man. And then we panic at the trade deadline and try to make a bad deal for an unknown commodity but still screw it up? Good lord.
Last first... the backup plan was/is the 2018 #1 overall pick. Can't say that it was the original plan, but it sure as hell is clearly the plan now.
Nest... not laughing... We'd probably have won the 4-6 games many originally predicted with Keenum, the Keenum that has emerged with the Vikes, running our Offense. Add Woods? Maybe 5-6?
None of know the story of the QB room. Did Hue vouch for Kessler? We weren't going to invest a roster spot in McC at the cost of developing young QBs, so we offered McC a QB Coaching job... one he'll likely take somewhere someday, but one he was not ready to take this season... and he chose wisely. But McC is not Keenum... and we did not win with him last season... so personally I'd not push him as a savior from our horrible circumstance.
Kizer? He was ready in this sense. He met the minimum requirements. He learned the playbook. He mastered the huddle. He learned how to go under center. Everything else was advanced study, OJT... and in some areas he gets passing grades... in some he's improved, but still failing... and in others he's made no progress.
And we cannot forget the disappointment that was Kessler's camp. He went in as our #1... and shat down his leg. He is as responsible for Kizer being pressed into action at least a half season early as anyone...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I'd love Cousins and a trade down from 1 overall. Beautiful.
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Lets be real, no free agent quarterback that will make a difference will even consider coming here. Ive been saying it for years, we have to take the best quarterback available to us with our first pick. Over thinking this has been the #1 problem with this team since Couch. If you dont have a quarterback, you pick the best one, every damn year if you have to. Hell draft 5 of em.
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Many of you will laugh at me (no more than usual) but how many games do we win with a guy like Case Keenum? How many do we win if we sign Robert Woods at WR, or trade a 2nd for Watkins to help Keenum and our other guys? Our defense has played well enough a few games to get us a victory, yet when we really needed a score, it never came. Sashi and our front office let us down by not having a veteran qb on our roster. Nobody can tell me Kizer was ready to play this season, but our management couldn't see that. What was the backup plan? Hogan and Kessler? Come on, man. And then we panic at the trade deadline and try to make a bad deal for an unknown commodity but still screw it up? Good lord.
Last first... the backup plan was/is the 2018 #1 overall pick. Can't say that it was the original plan, but it sure as hell is clearly the plan now.
Nest... not laughing... We'd probably have won the 4-6 games many originally predicted with Keenum, the Keenum that has emerged with the Vikes, running our Offense. Add Woods? Maybe 5-6?
None of know the story of the QB room. Did Hue vouch for Kessler? We weren't going to invest a roster spot in McC at the cost of developing young QBs, so we offered McC a QB Coaching job... one he'll likely take somewhere someday, but one he was not ready to take this season... and he chose wisely. But McC is not Keenum... and we did not win with him last season... so personally I'd not push him as a savior from our horrible circumstance.
Kizer? He was ready in this sense. He met the minimum requirements. He learned the playbook. He mastered the huddle. He learned how to go under center. Everything else was advanced study, OJT... and in some areas he gets passing grades... in some he's improved, but still failing... and in others he's made no progress.
And we cannot forget the disappointment that was Kessler's camp. He went in as our #1... and shat down his leg. He is as responsible for Kizer being pressed into action at least a half season early as anyone...
Last first... the backup plan was/is the 2018 #1 overall pick. Can't say that it was the original plan, but it sure as hell is clearly the plan now.
Nest... not laughing... We'd probably have won the 4-6 games many originally predicted with Keenum, the Keenum that has emerged with the Vikes, running our Offense. Add Woods? Maybe 5-6?
None of know the story of the QB room. Did Hue vouch for Kessler? We weren't going to invest a roster spot in McC at the cost of developing young QBs, so we offered McC a QB Coaching job... one he'll likely take somewhere someday, but one he was not ready to take this season... and he chose wisely. But McC is not Keenum... and we did not win with him last season... so personally I'd not push him as a savior from our horrible circumstance.
Kizer? He was ready in this sense. He met the minimum requirements. He learned the playbook. He mastered the huddle. He learned how to go under center. Everything else was advanced study, OJT... and in some areas he gets passing grades... in some he's improved, but still failing... and in others he's made no progress.
And we cannot forget the disappointment that was Kessler's camp. He went in as our #1... and shat down his leg. He is as responsible for Kizer being pressed into action at least a half season early as anyone...
In my humble opinion, Cody Kessler never came back right from his last concussion in 2016. He just wasn't ever the same, at least to me. When you look at some of his good performances last year, and there were a couple, you noticed that he was excellent "under pressure", he didn't turn the ball over, and he got the ball out quickly and accurately. After that concussion, we never really saw that Cody again. Granted, Cody's best games generally came with a stellar rushing attack, and that helps just about ANY QB, but he's been a shadow of that guy we saw a few times, and I wonder if he simply got rattled. I guess this demonstrates my point about not having a veteran on the roster. Perhaps having a veteran would've helped Cody somewhat, or at the very least, a veteran MIGHT have stabilized our QB position...if only a little bit. Not to beat a dead horse, but I believe Keenum is making like $1 or $2 mill a year? It's not like money would've been an issue, and it's not like Keenum is producing his numbers with stellar WR's. Are they better than ours? Of course, ANYBODY'S are better, but they aren't annual all-stars either.
Kizer doesn't appear to be consistently improving, and I think that's what concerns me the most. Even during the course of a game, he doesn't learn from his mistakes. For example, Kizer first pass was an interception. He didn't even look to see the linebacker's position...he merely assumed he wouldn't be there. Probably because that play was open every time in practice. But the MORE concerning issue is Kizer did the exact same thing later in the game, and that pass SHOULD'VE been picked for a TD. I believe it was slightly deflected in the air, which caused it to be a little late. Anyway, he made the same mistake and it's troublesome he didn't learn from it.
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I'd bet money that Kizer will be the only one returning to the QB room. I think we'll draft another VERY early (either with 1st pick or 2nd 1st rounder) and we'll bring in a veteran...either Tyrod Taylor or McCarron. Neither of them really do it for me, but it's better than what we have now. I had my heart set on Garoppolo, but it didn't happen. Maybe McCarron wouldn't be a bad thing if we could get some WRs. We know we can't count on Gordon, but I'm hopeful Corey will remain healthy. Still, we need to draft a WR AND bring in a vet. I'm also over Crow...it's time for a change. For him and us. I can't put too much of the blame on him, as he gets hit almost instantly most carries, but there are still times when his vision costs us big yards.
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I say that it is entirely plausible that with a quality QB,..and a non distracted HC, this team could be at about .500 this year.
But, of course, we don't have that.
Kizer really is not ready...even after 14 games (10 reg...4 preseason)....to play QB in the NFL. And the guys behind him are worse.
Hue has too much on his plate being OC and HC. His decisions alone have probably cost 3 games.
So, as far as drafting a QB #1 next year? Sure, why not.
In my opinion, that #1 pick.....if he is the right one...will be NO FURTHER behind in his development than Kizer would be by then....unless Kizer shows an astronomical leap in his ability to learn the game.
And we HAVE to have a bifurcation of Hue's duties. I think that is the one demand that the owners/GM are going to make on him.
As for who that #1 overall QB should be?
Who gives a flying freeking fook? It don't matter. It just has to be a guy capable of handling that leadership position. The name don't matter.
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of course we should draft a qb #1 next year....and we will and it will be rosen or darnold.
Even if it wasnt the right thing to do, the public/media pressure would be too great.
Voting no on Wentz when it was a straightforward yes/no vote was a huge mistake as we now know.
will rosen or darnold be a leading mvp candidate their second year? i doubt it, but they may turn out to be real good and we have to pull the trigger on one of them....
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We have to. Stop trying to be cute, stop trading down and just keep picking QB every year until we get it right. This is a QB league. Sick of the endless losing.
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of course we should draft a qb #1 next year....and we will and it will be rosen or darnold.
Even if it wasnt the right thing to do, the public/media pressure would be too great.
Voting no on Wentz when it was a straightforward yes/no vote was a huge mistake as we now know.
will rosen or darnold be a leading mvp candidate their second year? i doubt it, but they may turn out to be real good and we have to pull the trigger on one of them....
of course we should draft a qb #1 next year....and we will and it will be rosen or darnold.
Even if it wasnt the right thing to do, the public/media pressure would be too great.
Voting no on Wentz when it was a straightforward yes/no vote was a huge mistake as we now know.
will rosen or darnold be a leading mvp candidate their second year? i doubt it, but they may turn out to be real good and we have to pull the trigger on one of them....
For Darnold's sake I hope he goes back to USC for another season. He's only a redshirt sophomore, and he had a rollercoaster season.
No QB is NFL ready from Day 1, but I'd be scared to draft a QB like Darnold that high. Dog knows the Browns rarely let a rookie QB sit and slowly break into the league. It could end up being Kizer Part II.
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... or it could be better than Wentz in Philly.
of course it could be. And it's possible peppers could become a better safety eventually than prime ronnie lott. It's not likely though. Again, we are talking about a 2nd year qb who may very well win the nfl mvp in his second year. Mistakes happen, but that was a damn big one.
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Mistakes happen but we make them over and over. The Peppers pick is turning out to be just terrible. Here's a first round pick that literally had zero impact stats. He's basically done nothing.
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Is there any other options that intrigue anyone?
Alex Smith via trade has been an option I've favored exploring. KC is heading towards a cap crisis that will make Alex very affordable in trade terms. ANd his $20mm+ 2018 contract is not a cap problem for us.
That said... in answer to your titled question...
Hell, yes we should draft a QB #1 overall... and his name is Rosen.
Alex Smith via trade has been an option I've favored exploring. KC is heading towards a cap crisis that will make Alex very affordable in trade terms. ANd his $20mm+ 2018 contract is not a cap problem for us.
That said... in answer to your titled question...
Hell, yes we should draft a QB #1 overall... and his name is Rosen.
I like the idea of trading for smith, and I like the idea of drafting Rosen.
Doing both doesn’t seem likely unless sashi was serious about being aggressive to find the QB. As I see it, trading for smith is the route the Browns take if they believe Kizer can develop into a starter. Pay smith Big bucks for the next 2-3 years and then let Kizer take over when he’s 24 years old and hope he’s the answer.
To obtain Rosen and smith would at the very least cost both first round picks and another mid round pick, which is absolutely worth it, but I’m not sure the Browns will be willing to invest that much of their draft capital into one position.
I certainly would not complain about a QB depth chart of Smith, Rosen, Kizer.
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Mistakes happen but we make them over and over. The Peppers pick is turning out to be just terrible. Here's a first round pick that literally had zero impact stats. He's basically done nothing.
Mistakes happen but we make them over and over. The Peppers pick is turning out to be just terrible. Here's a first round pick that literally had zero impact stats. He's basically done nothing.
Peppers is a bust. He should be cut.
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... or it could be better than Wentz in Philly.
of course it could be. And it's possible peppers could become a better safety eventually than prime ronnie lott. It's not likely though. Again, we are talking about a 2nd year qb who may very well win the nfl mvp in his second year. Mistakes happen, but that was a damn big one.
of course it could be. And it's possible peppers could become a better safety eventually than prime ronnie lott. It's not likely though. Again, we are talking about a 2nd year qb who may very well win the nfl mvp in his second year. Mistakes happen, but that was a damn big one.
HMM you do realize Ronnie Lotts prime was his first year in the NFL when he not only made the Pro Bowl but was also 1st team All Pro.
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